hap kolb, 2001/12/01 03:28 US/Pacific (via web):
Hi, I put the traceback of the AddIssue?-getattr-problem on page GetattrProblem? (don't want to overcrowd your frontpage...)


"Ted Romer" <Ted.Romer@performant.com>, 2001/12/03 14:20 US/Pacific (via mail):
I'm seeing the following interesting behavior in Zope 2.4.3 + ZWiki 0.9.8:

Goal: force anonymous users to login before making changes to ZWiki pages.

  1. I modified standard_wiki_{footer,header} to display the edit, etc. links even for users without permissions, and to display the text "Logged in as Anonymous User". The idea is to let Zope authenticate as needed. 2. I edit a page. Zope correctly forces me to login, and applies the change. All is well, you'd think. 3. When I return to the page, I still appear to be the Anonymous User --

    not the userid I logged in as in (2). 4. I edit a page. Zope now remembers my login from step (2).

I'd say there's a stale cached value somewhere ... any idea where? Alternatively, is there a better way to go about this?

Bear in mind that I am a Zope/ZWiki newbie.

Ted Romer tromer@performant.com


Jason Byron <Jasonb@ppsc.com>, 2001/12/03 14:45 US/Pacific (via mail):
cache info:

you might try adding these headers to the headers:

see TextOnlyCodeSamples (no cache)

Or, another problem I noticed was that I had caching turned on for my domain using mod_proxy. Make sure to turn that off as well, or disable for the offending domain.

IE is know to have caching problems as well. I set my browser to "verify every page" and the browser cache size to 1 meg (the smallest setting).


2001/12/03 19:08 US/Pacific (via web):
hap I'm not sure why you're getting those errors. As you see the getattr calls use a third argument which should provide a default value. What python & zope version are you using ? Anyone got any idea ? --SM


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/03 19:18 US/Pacific (via mail):
sorry for the very short page histories lately.. my zodb is ballooning and I have to pack it severely or risk getting stuck with no disk space. Not sure why it's so big.. catalog perhaps ? Ideas welcome.


2001/12/03 23:51 US/Pacific (via web):
my first guess would be that REQUEST isn't setup when using the url. Just a thought. Since the error raises a key_error instead of an AttributeError?? I would try to help test, but i need someone to gzip the latest zwikidir for me so I can download it all easily. -thanks


GeoffGardiner, 2001/12/04 04:14 US/Pacific (via web):
Ted Romer's problems are almost certainly those I recorded halfway down PermissionsProblemsArchive as AUTHENTICATED_USER reveals dual personality. There's a workaround there which has always worked for me. A couple of days ago on the zope list I saw some discussion that might relate to this - to do with acquisition not working well with the browser's permissions mechanism (I think the argument is that authentication using say zwiki.org/login would not necessarily give you authentication of zwiki.org/FrontPage because the browser would not recognize that being in the same tree).


Jason Byron <Jasonb@ppsc.com>, 2001/12/04 16:33 US/Pacific (via mail):
I've got a patch for wiki-like image names that I'd like to submit. How should I submit it?

thanks, Jason


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/05 23:29 US/Pacific (via mail):

> my first guess would be that REQUEST isn't setup when using the url.
> Just a thought. Since the error raises a key_error instead of an

Hmm yes, as if REQUEST was None for example ?

hap you're just doing something wrong, I'm sorry :)

Do you mean to tell me you copy my ZwikiIssueTracker's source, paste it into a structuredtextdtml page on your wiki, and it immediately gives you those errors ? --SM


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/05 23:31 US/Pacific (via mail):
re the browser authentication stuff - I noticed mozilla being particularly annoying with this the other day. Even after authenticating it seemed to aggressively provide the least credentials it could get away with, with the result I could never call up catalog manage screens when I wanted.. --SM


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/05 23:44 US/Pacific (via mail):

> I've got a patch for wiki-like image names that I'd like to submit.
> How should I submit it?

well, here's what I think I would do, at present: announce it here, with a link to a new page, also linked on (eg) SuggestionsAndComments, which names and describes the patch; include the actual patch as part of that page, or upload it (using "add file" in the editform).

If a special page seemed overkill, I'd just upload the patch file and link it here, or on an existing page that it related to.


palmer, 2001/12/06 00:19 US/Pacific (via web):
Hi--

My installation of Zwiki does not allow editing of the pages. Somehow that became turned off and I cannot figure out how to turn it back on.

Any suggestions?

Kent Palmer palmer@exo.com


Jason Byron <Jasonb@ppsc.com>, 2001/12/06 08:23 US/Pacific (via mail):
I finished a patch for zwiki that eliminates a little html in the source when using images.

Basically when you type just the name of the image you downloaded it renders with an enclosing img tag pointing to the uploads dir. The image does not need to be a wiki word, just have a gif,jpeg,bmp,tif... extension. The patch also changes the image upload button so that it just adds the image name alone.

That's it. Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

I put the patch on ImageUploadRecognizePatch

thanks, Jason


Jason Byron <Jasonb@ppsc.com>, 2001/12/06 08:23 US/Pacific (via web):
To make logins a little easier on my wiki server:

I placed this in a dtml method called "login".

see TextOnlyCodeSamples (http_referer)

then I took away aquisition of security for "Access contents information" and "View" for "login" and set it to the "Authenticated" role for those two permissions.

next I added a link to it in the wiki header:

see TextOnlyCodeSamples (authentication dtml)

Does this work for anyone else?


2001/12/06 11:56 US/Pacific (via web):
to palmer, what did you used to do to login and edit? Jason


GeoffGardiner, 2001/12/06 12:41 US/Pacific (via web):
Well I think I finally understand the login problem and have a solution for it - until tomorrow, anyway. It's not specifically a Zwiki thing. Say you have two levels of folders, L1/L2. Somewhere in L2 you have one or more pages inviting you to login with <a href="login">Login<a>. So you have the login with its View setting enabled only for the Authenticated role - and have the redirect command back to the referer.

Scenario 1) the login can be in either L1 or L2. If you href to login you have an authentication problem. The login page thinks you're authenticated, and the other pages think you're not.

Scenario 2) the login is in L1 and the href is to URL2/login (i.e. L1/login). This works! The browser realizes that everything in L2 is authenticated because the whole subtree is below L1/login. Makes sense? To me today, at least.


2001/12/06 13:09 US/Pacific (via web):
That sounds right, if you use subfolders and you want one authentication, then don't add the login to those subfolders. zope will find the login through aquisition. - Jason

*No,acquisition is the problem here. You need to go to the login one level up.* -GG


palmer, 2001/12/06 17:47 US/Pacific (via web):
I have installed zwiki in a folder of that name in the root directory. When I first turned it on it worked, i.e. I could edit from the browser. But then it seemed to turn off and I cannot find out how to turn editing back on. I have red borders rather than green borders.

Kent Palmer palmer@exo.com


palmer, 2001/12/06 17:48 US/Pacific (via web):
There does not seem to be any login. The frontpage comes up directly when you go to my site

Is there a separate login package I need to install? Kent Palmer palmer@exo.com


2001/12/06 21:27 US/Pacific (via web):
you were probably already logged in when you installed the wiki, that's why it worked at first. It works off of the same mechanism that zope does. just go to /manage on your site, login, and then go back to the main page, then it should be in edit mode. If you add a "login" DTML method like I mentioned about 4 messages above this, you can make a login link for the main page so you don't have to do the normal login everytime. Just remember that when you shutdown the browser you logout. - Jason


2001/12/06 21:28 US/Pacific (via web):
oh, and no, you don't need to install a login package.


2001/12/06 22:46 US/Pacific (via web):
That worked. But I don't understand. How do users log in? Since they are not managers? This confuses me. Sorry I'm so dense.

Kent Palmer palmer@exo.com


2001/12/06 23:26 US/Pacific (via web):
you could make a new role called "wikiuser" and give that role "edit wiki" capabilities. then when you create users make them of the wikiuser role, not managers. add that login dtml method and make it so wikiuser authentication is required. then when they go to login they are prompted for their password, and all they can do is wiki stuff. test it out with a few users first. - Jason


2001/12/07 00:15 US/Pacific (via web):
Thanks, I think I understand that. I will try. Appreciate your help.

Kent Palmer, palmer@exo.com


2001/12/07 00:17 US/Pacific (via web):
How does the authenticated flag get set and where does it reside?

Kent Palmer, palmer@exo.com


2001/12/07 01:11 US/Pacific (via web):
Aren't email listings in the subscribeform too easily exploitable by SPAM scripts?


2001/12/07 08:17 US/Pacific (via web):
yep, we should hide the addresses. Maybe we could do something like egroups, where only a partial email address are listed?


2001/12/07 08:21 US/Pacific (via web):
Kent, if you haven't already, you should probably look at http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/Security.dtml . it's a good security brief, plus it's got some examples of how to test for security. - Jason


Jason Byron <Jasonb@ppsc.com>, 2001/12/07 09:31 US/Pacific (via mail):
Hi, I've uploaded a dtml method that lists the files in the uploads directory. pretty simple, just add a DTML method, call it "list_uploads", and then use http://yoursite/FrontPage/list_uploads to test it out.

here it is: list_uploads.zwiki.dtml_method

thanks, - Jason


2001/12/07 14:46 US/Pacific (via web):
I just installed the latest ZWiki to test it out on my box. My intention is to allow global viewing of pages, but only certain people can edit pages. Seems pretty standard fair for Wikis of late. However, I'm having some difficulties.

The first thing I did was install the ZWiki, and got everything running out of the box. Everything works great.

Next, I decided to create a new role, called "WikiUser". The idea is, members of this role are enabled to edit Wiki pages (non-members can add comments and create their own pages). I set the permissions for that role as I understood them as per the instructions given when adding the Wiki site object.

Now, when I go to the Wiki site, all the pages are read-only. There apparently is no way to "log in" to the site. How do I go about adding this capability? I can't seem to locate any how-to on this just yet.

Thanks for your time.

UPDATE: I solved the problem. I hadn't seen the post by Jason above regarding his login fix. To answer Jason's query, though, I did manage to implement your style of log-in, and it works great for me. Thanks, and I apologize for the oversight.

Samuel A. Falvo II


2001/12/07 14:46 US/Pacific (via web):
Sorry for the numerous updates; I'm trying to get the single-quotes in Jason's message to appear in the web view, as if you just cut-n-paste the code as it appears, it won't work. But I can't seem to get them to display. Even "!" doesn't work here.


2001/12/07 19:45 US/Pacific (via web):
okay, now it seems to work. there are extra spaces around the single quotes, but it now works with just a cut and paste from the web view. finally!

this gets me thinking, maybe we need "Turn Wiki Rules Off" and "Turn Wiki Rules On" rules.

how about WikiOn WikiOff ? - I like it. Sounds like "wax-on, wax-off" :)

, - Jason


2001/12/07 19:51 US/Pacific (via web):
Or, how about extending the "no-wiki" command to include block syntax? For example:

  !{ This text 'apparently' doesn't *have* **any** form of markup AtAll. }!  *But this does!*

Also, it'd be nice to be able to escape the code, as otherwise, I wouldn't be able to transcribe it literally into a webpage for others to see.

In reality, what I'd like to see is a more uniform way of escaping out of Wiki processing rules. !ThisIsCool, but I'd also like the ability to type in, "!'This is also cool!'". The idea is that ! should be able to escape any Wiki markup, not just WikiName(s).


2001/12/07 20:03 US/Pacific (via web):
Also, while I am at it, there are a number of rendering bugs with ZWiki which myself and a friend of mine are trying to work around. Viewing the StructuredTextRules? page of our installation is a royal eye-sore, as the single-quote markup doesn't work at all. Thus, writing something like, * is used to emphasize text, will result in "is used to emphasize text" in emphasized font.

Samuel A. Falvo II


2001/12/07 21:19 US/Pacific (via web):
well, i think the problem there is with structuredtext, which isnt in zwiki, its in zope. Wiki just extends structuredtext.

if you turn on advanced user options you can choose to render text as zwiki + html + dtml.

for now you have to change the entire page s "render status".

Maybe we can come up with some wiki words that are preprocessed that split the page into different areas that are in turn rendered with different rules?

The next point for this though is that this sounds way to complicated, and because there are so many combinations i can see there being some really funky text being churned out (on.. off... dtmlon... texton...).

From just looking at what we need, maybe the best solution is to just allow one syntax to revert to text only mode (WikiOff) and then one to switch back (WikiOn)? This way we can get to the bare bones, no structuredtext, no dtml, no html - just text mode.

Jason


2001/12/07 21:44 US/Pacific (via web):
now theres a text-only page called TextOnlyCodeSamples. lets put all of the code snippets there. -Jason


2001/12/08 11:19 US/Pacific (via web):
I have posted in TextOnlyCodeSamples a brilliant example of what can only be called "a mess." Basically, as you can see from the structured text example, it's well-formed structured text (at least, I think it is). The HTML output, however, is an abomination. 90% of the text that should appear at the top of the page appears at the bottom, almost intermingled and interleaved with the text that normally appears at the bottom. The only thing about the resulting page that looks good at all is the pictures and their captions. :( Is there something that I am doing wrong, or is this a rendering bug that should be reported either here or to Zope? How would I even begin to debug this? I'm fluent with Python, but have never written any extensions for Zope before.

Thanks.

Samuel A. Falvo II


2001/12/08 11:22 US/Pacific (via web):
Oops -- forgot to mention that I'm using ZWiki 0.9.8, and Zope 2.4.3 under Windows NT. Zope is running as a service. Thanks!

Samuel A. Falvo II


2001/12/08 12:07 US/Pacific (via web):
i think the main problem with the sample you gave is that it has so many single quotes in it. thats a structured text problem. perhaps the best solution for you right now is to find the code that uses single quotes and remove it. perhaps we need an even simpler text formatting than this: http://dev.zope.org/Members/jim/StructuredTextWiki/ClassicStructuredTextRules - Jason


2001/12/08 12:12 US/Pacific (via web):
I just reviewed the source, and I can't find anywhere where I use single quotes, except in words like "I'll". That can't possibly be the problem.

UPDATE I was playing around in my sandbox, and I accidentally discovered something. Headers cannot have colons in them. Even when "escaped" by single-quotes. I changed my header to read PT-3 Paper Turbine instead, and it works fine. Man, this is annoying. I think the folks at Zope really need to review that structured text package of theirs... I think it's due for a re-write it seems.

Samuel A. Falvo II


2001/12/08 12:18 US/Pacific (via web):
it's actually gone through many revisions, see: http://dev.zope.org/Members/jim/StructuredTextWiki/StructuredTextNG

perhaps we should create a new one? Here is what MyPerfectWorld would be like. - Jason


2001/12/08 12:23 US/Pacific (via web):
Yup, I actually was just viewing http://dev.zope.org/Members/jim/StructuredTextWiki/StructuredTextNG when I got the zwiki notification of your response. I think that they really need to get their heads on straight, and realize that Wiki is supposed to be simple. It looks to me like they're planning on making structured text almost as expressive as HTML is. I don't think that's the right way to do things.

I feel that HTML and structured text go hand-in-hand with each other. I do not feel the need to say <I>This is italics</I> when * This is italics * is sufficient and relatively unambiguous. However, as you might suspect, I also firmly feel that ! * should escape the star so that it prints a literal star, and !! should escape the exclamation mark to print itself.

I'll review MyPerfectWorld when you get it completed, and compare your ideas with mine.

Samuel A. Falvo II


2001/12/08 13:29 US/Pacific (via web):
Oh man, I never had such a large outburst of creativity and productivity as I just have. Wikis are cool, even if they don't behave as you'd expect them to at times... :D

Samuel A. Falvo II


2001/12/08 13:41 US/Pacific (via web):
agreed


2001/12/11 11:35 US/Pacific (via web):
There's some questions on the AdminHowtos page. Does anyone know what the status of this project is? I'm having trouble getting the tracker files let alone getting it running. Anyone else manage to get it to work ok? sure would love some tips. :) thanks


BillSeitz, 2001/12/11 13:28 US/Pacific (via web):
What are the odds of fixing the context code problems that arise when you try to use SubFolders?? (e.g. a WikiName in the child folder gets rendered hot when a matching page in the parent folder exists, yet the link it creates is into the child folder; this problem doesn't seem to occur if you turn off ShowHierarchy? in UserOptions?). One alternative might be to (a) follow the initial hasattr(self.aq_parent, m) test with getattr(f.aq_explicit, myId, 0) which ignore acquisition, then maybe do something more complex with the path of the rendered link if the found item isn't in the immediate folder... (sorry if unclear)


1Jerry, 2001/12/11 17:30 US/Pacific (via web):
I have solved what I perceived as this problem with one simple change to the source. All parent pages (with the mod) appear as if they are in the current folder, but retain the security of the parent folder. Read all the gory details in SubWikiExampleOne.

I still have not found the spot in the code that generates the URL when you save your page edits. Which are currently duplicating the page name on the URL. Help wanted.


2001/12/12 17:50 US/Pacific (via web):
catching up.. ping me on #zope.. --SM


2001/12/15 01:09 US/Pacific (via web):
Simon, would you mind if I lifted the code in WikiBadges for use on my own ZWiki site? That is a great example of the flexibility of ZWiki, and I think it's doggone useful to have in general.

SamuelFalvo?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 12:40 US/Pacific (via mail):

> Simon, would you mind if I lifted the code in WikiBadges for use on

Not at all, please grab any code from this site. NB it could probably be made faster now by using catalog searches.


2001/12/15 12:43 US/Pacific (via web):
Thanks. I've put it up, and I have had to make one modification. I had to but '[' and ]? around the dtml-var statements, as WikiNames like VerificationOf6?5K don't work as expected (I thought numbers were supposed to be treated as capital letters? Maybe I misread something). Besides, some of my pages aren't true WikiNames at all, e.g., RLLD. Otherwise, it works great for my needs. Thanks!

SamuelFalvo?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 12:52 US/Pacific (via mail):
Do you feel the need for some cleanup around here ? I do. Got any thoughts on the following ?

--SM


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 13:46 US/Pacific (via mail):

Thread mode vs Document mode

I think the relative ease of replying to any page encourages the spread of WikiWiki:ThreadMode all over the wiki. In the extreme case this means the wiki becomes like a (fancy) mailing-list archive. Nothing wrong with that per se. On the other hand we may want to preserve some WikiWiki:DocumentMode. On this site I think we should.

What do you think of adopting a convention like this:


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 13:50 US/Pacific (via mail):

> VerificationOf6?5K don't work as expected (I thought numbers were
> supposed to be treated as capital letters? Maybe I misread something).

No, numbers may only appear at the end of an otherwise valid wikiname, at present.


> Besides, some of my pages aren't true WikiNames at all, e.g., RLLD.

Yep, you'll need brackets for that one. Thanks for the feedback! --SM


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 14:09 US/Pacific (via mail):
Re listing subscriber email addresses -

I made them visible on this site because I thought it useful (good to know where the action is at). I didn't obscure the addresses however because I think those anti-spam-harvester tricks are a waste of time.

I know some might disagree. Quick show of hands - how many of you would want obscured addresses, eg like mailman ? How many of you would want the ability to opt out of being listed, like mailman ?

And don't everybody just automatically say yes. :)


rossini@blindglobe.net (A.J. Rossini), 2001/12/15 14:21 US/Pacific (via mail):

>>>>> "z" == zwiki <zwiki@zwiki.org> writes:

z> ++added: Re listing subscriber email addresses -

z> I made them visible on this site because I thought it useful z> (good to know where the action is at). I didn't obscure the z> addresses however because I think those anti-spam-harvester z> tricks are a waste of time.

z> I know some might disagree. Quick show of hands - how many of z> you would want obscured addresses, eg like mailman ? How many z> of you would want the ability to opt out of being listed, like z> mailman ?

z> And don't everybody just automatically say yes. :)

NO. Antispam measures are baloney.

Say it with me. "Antispam measures are baloney".

"Rewriting SMTP is the only solution".

(you did ask :-).

Far better just to forward people you don't know into a junk mail inbox, for processing or /dev/null'ing...

best, -tony


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 14:24 US/Pacific (via mail):
fixed: scrolling to bottom of page after comment.


2001/12/15 14:29 US/Pacific (via web):
The concept of WikiWiki:DocumentMode and WikiWiki:ThreadMode make perfect sense. As a general rule, I try to make all my Wiki pages as Document mode as possible, and I also follow the convention of using *Discussion for pages deliberately designed to contain progressing discussions.

On the issue of e-mail addresses, I would prefer to not have my e-mail address listed in full, again, due to unsolicited e-mail reasons. I have, in the past, been inundated with unsolicited e-mail because I was foolish enough to let my e-mail address go in a rather visible location (e.g., in the middle of a website). I have even set up spam trap e-mail addresses, and sure enough, they get blasted with e-mails too.

Sure enough, it's not an overnight thing. However, as time progresses, I find that the frequency with which I receive bulk e-mail to spam trap addresses increases, sometimes dramatically.

That's just my opinion. Of course, this is your site, and you have the ultimate choice.

Now, on to e-mail... I've replied to WikiMail messages that I've received, and nothing ever shows up here. Do I have to edit out the Re: in the subject heading for this to work?

SamuelFalvo?


2001/12/15 14:29 US/Pacific (via web):
14-day pack, 95 -> 59Mb


2001/12/15 14:36 US/Pacific (via web):
Also, according to WikiWiki:FrontPage, Wikis have, more or less, a desired purpose. What is the real purpose of this Wiki? I understand that this is the place to discuss ZWiki development, but how close does the reality of this wiki approach that "goal?" Not that I'm saying to lock the Wiki down, erase all non-ZWiki-related developments, but it's just a curiosity I have. Thanks.

SamuelFalvo?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 14:43 US/Pacific (via mail):

> Now, on to e-mail... I've replied to WikiMail messages that I've
> received, and nothing ever shows up here. Do I have to edit out the
> Re: in the subject heading for this to work?

No.. I see the problem. Your message of dec 7th was silently dropped because it contained dtml code (which failed). Maybe someone could look at [zwikidir/Extensions/zwiki_mailin.py]? and figure out a good way to neutralize dtml in mail-ins.


Samuel Falvo <SFalvo?@hifn.com>, 2001/12/15 14:56 US/Pacific (via mail):

> >> Now, on to e-mail... I've replied to WikiMail messages that I've
> >> received, and nothing ever shows up here. Do I have to edit out the
> >> Re: in the subject heading for this to work?
>
> No.. I see the problem. Your message of dec 7th was silently dropped
> because it contained dtml code (which failed).
> Maybe someone could look at [zwikidir/Extensions/zwiki_mailin.py]?
> and figure out a good way to neutralize dtml in mail-ins.

I don't recall there being DTML code in it. I'm trying this reply as an experiment to see how well it can handle HTML codes...


Samuel Falvo <SFalvo?@hifn.com>, 2001/12/15 14:58 US/Pacific (via mail):
Apparently, pretty well... :D

SamuelFalvo?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/15 15:09 US/Pacific (via mail):

> Also, according to WikiWiki:FrontPage, Wikis have, more or less, a
> desired purpose. What is the real purpose of this Wiki? I understand
> that this is the place to discuss ZWiki development, but how close
> does the reality of this wiki approach that "goal?" Not that I'm

What's actually here right now is some random zope content, some random general wiki content, a lot of test pages, a fair number of brief personal pages, and lots of zwiki stuff - news, discussion, patches, experiments, (chaotic) documentation. (I learned this from the contents, and I'd like to have an AnnotatedContents? at some point.)

So it's definitely the "home of zwiki". Actual discussion has been fairly slow-paced and sporadic - I think partly because the zope lists are perceived as too big a pond and none of us wanted a new zwiki list. Wikimail is the new (~late 2001) dynamic in this picture.

The welcome message on FrontPage/AboutThisSite is the current nominal purpose. Does it need an update ? There's also some early pages about content policy & contract somewhere.


2001/12/15 15:57 US/Pacific (via web):
What about renaming ZWikiDiscussion? to GeneralDiscussion. To clarify that it's the site's default discussion place, and to make a consistent default for templates.


=?iso-8859-1?q?=C1lvaro=20Tejero=20Cantero?= <alvaro@antalia.com>, 2001/12/15 16:05 US/Pacific (via mail):
El Sunday 16 December 2001 00:58, escribiste: ++added:

What about renaming ZWikiDiscussion? to GeneralDiscussion. To clarify that it's the site's default discussion place, and to make a consistent default for templates.

To this I agree. I would also prefer obscuring e-mail adresses.

-- ᬶaro tejero cantero alqua.com, la red en estudio


2001/12/15 16:09 US/Pacific (via web):
I think it may be better to de-emphasize single-page subscription in favour of simple whole-wiki subscription. I think we we can address the problem of mail volume with subscription options.

I'm out of here, happy weekend all. --SM


WikiWiki@usd1.com, 2001/12/16 06:12 US/Pacific (via mail):
Hi,

I certainly wouldn't want to get messages for any edits on the whole wiki, but rather on just the pages that are relevant. Or am I misunderstanding that last statement?

re: e-mail address. Current setup works for me.

1) I think addresses in e-mail headers are only a problem when they get forwarded a lot and fall into the wrong hands. Who's going to care what we say outside of this list?

2) SPAM is a annoyance, but with good filters and a good mail program (The BAT!) I rarely see any. 2a) I check my questionable box around once a week and sometimes feel like going on a crusade to get at the spammers, but I usually come to my senses and see how pointless that would be.

3) looking at the addresses on this list is interesting too. I see a couple from foreign address, most say nothing about the user. I see someone probably just up the road in Seattle, and someone probably just across the river in Portland (hi Eric).

4) I see the value of having Thread vs. Document mode. What I suggest is to have different permission defaults for new *Discussion pages. This would allow comment only if *Discussion. But as I write this, I remember that we often edit this page to fix typos or markup that isn't working the way we want, so I guess that wouldn't work.

--Jerry


Samuel Falvo <SFalvo?@hifn.com>, 2001/12/16 13:00 US/Pacific (via mail):

> Hi,
>
> I certainly wouldn't want to get messages for any edits on the whole
> wiki, but rather on just the pages that are relevant. Or am I
> misunderstanding that last statement?

I wholeheartedly agree. While a more general purpose Wiki page subscription method may be in order, as it stands now, I like it. I do not, for example, subscribe to the whole ZWiki site; but rather, only to ZWikiDiscussions and a small handful of other pages.


> 2) SPAM is a annoyance, but with good filters and a good
> mail program (The BAT!) I rarely see any. 2a) I check my

I've run two ISPs? in my time, and I have seen spammers literally work around every anti-spam measure in existance. The only sure-fire way to prevent a spammer from "opting" you into a list is to just plain don't disclose the information. You wouldn't want to leave the keys to your car or house just lying out in the open in a public place unattended, would you? Likewise with e-mail addresses (and other personal properties).


> questionable box around once a week and sometimes feel like going on a

Too much work. I shouldn't have to check some stupid "trashcan" folder every week. This defeats the whole purpose of spam blocking to begin with -- not downloading the spam, not consuming harddrive space, not requiring user intervention.


> 3) looking at the addresses on this list
> is interesting too. I see a couple from foreign address, most say
> nothing about the user. I see someone probably just up the road in

Doesn't matter whether the addresses say anything about the user or not. How many times have you received spam for Viagra? I've received multi-megabytes of spam from various "companies" claiming to sell the stuff. And yet, I do not participate in the pornographic newsgroups or websites at all. How'd they get my e-mail address? By scanning other places (e.g., comp.lang.forth newsgroup for example, where I used to frequently make postings).

SamuelFalvo?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/16 13:45 US/Pacific (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BryanDollery?) writes:
> Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) in Blade Runner

Wow, really ? That whole quote ?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/16 14:40 US/Pacific (via mail):
Hi all,


> I do not, for example, subscribe to the whole ZWiki site; but rather,
> only to ZWikiDiscussions and a small handful of other pages.

Per-page subscription seems nice, but here are some disadvantages I'm seeing:

In essence, per-page subscription makes each page a mailing list whereas I think wiki as mailing list and pages as threads is a better model.

We will get more subscription options to make traffic manageable, but yes we probably need to keep the ability to say "notify me of updates to this page and nothing else". So during subscription we could have a "notify me only for pages matching.." field, with the current page filled in but disabled by default. Just a change of emphasis, really.

Thanks for all comments so far..


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/16 14:50 US/Pacific (via mail):

> 1) I think addresses in e-mail headers are only a problem when they get

In this case, which is separate from how they are displayed on the subscribeform, I do want to hide them, just don't know how. Short of using a real mail list or hacking up mailman integration. I'm hoping someone will take care of it first. (go Stephan!)


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/16 15:08 US/Pacific (via mail):
renamed ZWikiDiscussion? to GeneralDiscussion (and promoted it to the top of the contents hierarchy). Hopefully this will not cause problems. Here's a case where storing subscribers as a page property was convenient.


=?iso-8859-1?q?=C1lvaro=20Tejero=20Cantero?= <alvaro@antalia.com>, 2001/12/16 15:14 US/Pacific (via mail):
I would prepend GeneralDiscussion with a qualifier, so that in the people's inbox it appears as ZWiki:GeneralDiscussion. I think this is good if one subscribes to many wikis and lifts ambiguity. -AlV.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/16 15:42 US/Pacific (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BillSeitz) writes:
> What are the odds of fixing the context code problems that arise ...
> (a) follow the initial hasattr(self.aq_parent, m) test with
> getattr(f.aq_explicit, myId, 0) which ignore acquisition, then maybe

Bill that sounds like it should work easily enough. If you try it let us know.

zwiki@zwiki.org (1Jerry) writes:
> I still have not found the spot in the code that generates the URL
> when you save your page edits. Which are currently duplicating the

Do you mean the end of edit(), line ~1192 or so ?

This issue (what did we call it - WikiAcquisition ?) is still not a priority for me so I can't work on it just now - NB remember if anyone has a business need they can hire me to make something happen quicker.


human, 2001/12/16 16:58 US/Pacific (via web):
updated HowToInstallAZwikiCatalog, AdminHowtos


2001/12/17 13:34 US/Pacific (via web):
ZopeProjectRoadmapDraft?


Maybe I'm silly, but I'm trying to install some ZWikis? and I'm wondering how much of the current zwiki.org stuff gets incorporated in the template wiki that gets instantiated when you create a new wiki in Zope. For example, the view_source method doesn't seem to be there. Where is it? -BobWithrow?


2001/12/18 20:14 US/Pacific (via web):
I have the following piece of code embedded in my Sandbox currently:

 &lt;dtml-in "aq_parent.objectValues(spec='ZWiki Page')" sort=id>
 &lt;dtml-if "_.string.find(_.getitem('sequence-item').raw,'Hot'+'Topic') != -1">
 &lt;dtml-if "id != ('Wiki'+'Badge')">
 &ltli>[&lt;dtml-var id>]
 &lt;/dtml-if>
 &lt;/dtml-if>
 &lt;/dtml-in>

The idea is to list all pages which have a certain WikiBadge (in this case, HotTopic?), excluding the WikiBadge page itself, as WikiBadge is the parent page for all other badge pages (e.g., it contains a link to all other badge pages). Yet, in my tests, WikiBadge always appears. On a whim, I noticed that changing the == to != results in no pages being listed. From this, it looks as if id is always being set to WikiBadge. Yet, as seen from the <dtml-var id> statement, it's clear that's not the case. What in the bloody heck is going on?

SamuelFalvo?


2001/12/18 20:17 US/Pacific (via web):
And speaking of which, that's definately a bug. I try using the < character verbatim above, and it chokes (nothing is displayed; it's parsed as a series of blank lines on output). I replace it with &#26lt;, and ... it shows &#26lt;. It seems it's not possible to display < as the first character.

SamuelFalvo?


2001/12/18 20:21 US/Pacific (via web):
sigh I give up.

SamuelFalvo?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/19 15:56 US/Pacific (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BobWithrow?) writes:
> Maybe I'm silly, but I'm trying to install some ZWikis? and I'm wondering
> how much of the current zwiki.org stuff gets incorporated in the template
> wiki that gets instantiated when you create a new wiki in Zope. For
> example, the view_source method doesn't seem to be there. Where is it?

The zwikidotorg template mimics the basic look and behaviour of zwiki.org, but not every detail. You're right, view_source is not part of it at present. But here's how to get it: http://zwiki.org/view_source/view_source

Thanks. Now I'm wondering in what way view_source is distinct from the src and text methods already there? -- BobWithrow?.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2001/12/19 16:10 US/Pacific (via mail):

Samuel, zope and dtml often pull tricky stuff on you. It's tedious, but debug your code by making it print out key expressions so you can see what's really going on - in your case, perhaps a < dtml-var "id">. It might be that id seems to be a string but is actually a method.

Re quoting - we don't have a really convenient way of quoting DTML code within a structuredtextdtml page, which are the default on this site. :: quotes almost everything, but not that. People have been getting around this by inserting a space after the < as I did above.


SimonMichael, 2001/12/22 12:47 US/Pacific (via web):
Ack! Wiki police!

One more time: "I just went to see Lord Of The Rings. WOW!!!"


SimonMichael, 2001/12/22 12:48 US/Pacific (via web):
A great Lawrence Lessig slashdot interview. Everyone involved with the net should read this.


SimonMichael, 2001/12/22 12:53 US/Pacific (via web):
Linux, mozilla, quake 2 releases... (!)


SimonMichael, 2001/12/22 15:03 US/Pacific (via web):
Just spent a little time reviewing EveryThing2. We have quite a lot in common.


SimonMichael, 2001/12/23 17:00 US/Pacific (via web):
ClassDiagram