Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/01 00:06 GMT (via mail):
Thanks for the buzz link - wow, it looks rather amazing.

I was cleaning up editform and backlinks earlier, so I just now tried a zcatalog backlinks again. A one-line change, and it seems faster and more correct than the old one. Good prospects for SisterSites, LikePages, etc.


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/01 00:22 GMT (via mail):

> A couple BackLinks thoughts:
>
> * I agree speed is an issue. Especially if you want to
> do some fun things with batches of data (like make a
> TouchGraph or VisualTour view). Cacheing sounds like a
> good idea.

I don't see why ZWiki seems to have an aversion to ZCatalog. It works as both a cache and an index. Just add a "getWikiNames" method to each WikiPage. Make each WikiPage catalog aware (perhaps linked to a special WikiCatalog). The catalog has a Keyword index called "getWikiNames". Backlinks then just becomes "WikiCatalog(getWikiNames=ToDoDjay)", easy and fast. Why reinvent the wheel. Want to get the wikinames fast? "WikiCatalog.getIndexDataForRID(WikiCatalog(id=ToDoDjay)[0]?._catalog_rid__ )['getWikiNames']?" or something similarly ugly (but fast). Of course a better solution would be implement an API that used the catalog if it was available or did it the slow way if it wasn't.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/01 00:27 GMT (via mail):
ack, I knew there was a reason - capitalization. Backlinks requires a case-sensitive search.


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/01 00:40 GMT (via mail):

> So you would cache the backlinks list within the page text,
> instead of (as
> well as ?) calculating them on the fly. To update these I

Yes.


> suppose after each
> page edit you'd go through all links in the old and new
> version and update

Sounds inefficient I know but at least this is happening at edit time rather than view time. Another way to implement it is using the talker/listener pattern. Each page that is storing the backlinks text in a page would notify those pages that it is interested in their changes. Each page that has a change to it's wikinames would notify only those that registered their interested. Any page that had a new wikiname in it would contact that page to see if it wanted to know about changes in that name. Clear as mud? Of course this involves changing a page just because your interested in it which I don't like (see my comments about subscribers changing the page object).

Another alternative would just be to index the interest. Every page change looks up an index for each of it's wikinames old and new to see if any were interested in being notified in a change in its backlinks.


> their backlinks lists. Seeing ToDoDjay in the recent changes
> just because
> someone linked to it seems weird to me though.

It wouldn't happen to every page. Only those that you have specifically said "this page is really a WikiTag and therefore is more about its backlinks than its content". Then it makes sense for it to change when its backlinks change. DeleteMe is another instance of a WikiTag. You could then see by looking at the RecentChanges whenever someone wanted a page to be deleted since the DeleteMe has been recently changed. You could subcribe to DeleteMe to be notified when someone wants a page deleted. What this special tag ShowBacklinks tag essentially does is mark the page as a WikiTag rather than a normal WikiPage.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/01 07:22 GMT (via mail):
Hi all,

today I am throwing open the doors of Zwiki CVS. If you are familiar with zwiki and able to lend a hand with the product code, I invite you to send me your sourceforge id so I can add you to the list of developers. You will then have write access to the cvs repository as described at https://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=5690 (module "zwiki").

I will continue acting as chief broompusher and de facto dictator for now and will resolve disagreements by decree if appropriate. I'd like to grow this project so that many of us can work actively on it, and this may require experiments and adjustments as we go. To begin with I ask that you act conservatively, discussing significant code & architectural changes on zwiki.org.

All other kinds of help - documentation, bug tracking, template design, sponsorship, wiki maintenance & development, packaging, etc. - remain much needed and appreciated.

Best regards, -Simon


2002/05/01 15:06 GMT (via web):
Hello,

Is there any special magic necessary (by the Zope Admin) to get the email notifications to work? I installed zope 2.5 and zwiki 0.9.8 and everything works fine except no email notifications get sent.

TIA, Sam


2002/05/01 15:25 GMT (via web):
Hi,

Never mind my previous comment about ZWiki & Zope on Win2k server: I got it running. I had to make sure that Zope was installed in the C:\Zope directory though; it was previously installed in D:\Program Files\MyWebSite.

Philippe@casgrain.com


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/05/01 18:03 GMT (via web):
Email magic: WikiMail , WikiMailDiscussion - also check the mailout_policy property


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 01:25 GMT (via mail):

> 1. I want to set my wiki so that "add a comment" shows up on every page, even
> for anonymous users. I can't get this to work. I have set the permissions in
> the wiki (Security tab, all ...Zwiki..." have 4 checkboxes). Even when I log
> in, then view the Wiki pages, most of the time I can't edit. (Zope 2.4.2 on
> MacOSX, ZWiki 0.9.9, browser = Mozilla0.9.9).

Is this a newly-created zwikidotorg wiki ? (ie, are you using the latest default standard_wiki_footer ?) And you are sure that Anonymous effectively has "Zwiki: Add comments to pages" permission for the page you are viewing, and that you are testing as anonymous ?


> 2. Running Zope 2.5.1 on Windows2000Server, I installed ZWiki 0.9.9 in
> $zope/lib/python/Products/ and restarted Zope. No joy: ZWiki doesn't show up
> in my "Select type to add..." popup menu. Zope itself runs fine.

Looks like you got this working, if this is you..


> With my own ZWiki 0.9.9 instance the mozilla-based browsers get confused
> with forms and display ridiculously small windows, both for add a
> comment (in horizontal) and for edit (in vertical)

This sounds like #149 textareas are sometimes very narrow due to zwiki_width == '', fixed in cvs a few days ago. As a workaround, setting your width and height to some number in UserOptions should fix it.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 01:45 GMT (via mail):
Zwiki.org's backlinks are now a zcatalog search narrowed down via the old brute-force search. This should be somewhat faster and slightly more correct than the straight brute-force implementation. It still seems not quite as fast as we'd like, so..

Bill Seitz <fluxent@yahoo.com> writes:
> * one approach would be to stick all WikiNames from a
> page's body into a separate property (like the Parents
> list), whether they are for existing pages or not.

I think I like this idea best as the next step. It's another complication, but probably worth it. Cache the wikinames in a property, index it as a.. Keyword index ? which I think will give us case sensitivity, and a simple catalog search will give accurate backlinks.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 01:55 GMT (via mail):
"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com> writes:
>> solution would be to save our last_edit_time instead of using
>> bobobase_modification_time.
>
> Not a nice change since bobobase_modification_time is a standard (as
> close as Zope gets to it). That reduces the ability of other tools to
> leverage off Wiki pages being just standard just simple content objects.

well, would it really ? bobobase_modification_time will still work, but RecentChanges and other in-wiki apps will be able to give a more useful timestamp. No more losing of your page ages when you upgrade zwiki, or move things around in the zodb. ZC have acknowledged that using bobobase_modification_time for content object ages was a mistake.


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/03 02:00 GMT (via mail):

> "Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com> writes:
> >> solution would be to save our last_edit_time instead of using
> >> bobobase_modification_time.
> >
> > Not a nice change since bobobase_modification_time is a standard
> (as
> > close as Zope gets to it). That reduces the ability of other tools
> to
> > leverage off Wiki pages being just standard just simple content
> objects.
>
> well, would it really ? bobobase_modification_time will still
> work, but
> RecentChanges and other in-wiki apps will be able to give a
> more useful
> timestamp. No more losing of your page ages when you upgrade zwiki, or
> move things around in the zodb. ZC have acknowledged that using
> bobobase_modification_time for content object ages was a mistake.

Good point. I think this is argument for a zope standard property (like title) for a user_modification_time, but since that doesn't seem to be on the cards...


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/03 02:10 GMT (via mail):

> Bill Seitz <fluxent@yahoo.com> writes:
> > * one approach would be to stick all WikiNames from a
> > page's body into a separate property (like the Parents
> > list), whether they are for existing pages or not.
>
> I think I like this idea best as the next step. It's another
> complication,
> but probably worth it. Cache the wikinames in a property, index it as

Is there much point in caching the WikiNames in a property? Why not dynamically generate the list and just index the that member function? Since it is only indexed once per page edit there is no difference in performance and there is no duplication of data.


Viktor Mihalkov <viktor_mihalkov@yahoo.com>, 2002/05/03 09:45 GMT (via mail):
Hi! I want to unsubscribe. How to do it?

Thanks, Viktor

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com


2002/05/03 13:22 GMT (via web):
Simon Michael wrote:
Is this a newly-created zwikidotorg wiki ? (ie, are you using the latest default standard_wiki_footer ?) And you are sure that Anonymous effectively has "Zwiki: Add comments to pages" permission for the page you are viewing, and that you are testing as anonymous ?

Yes, yes and yes. It's the latest tarball from Zwiki.org (downloaded at the beginning of this week). I will try to fetch the latest source via cvs to see if that helps.

philippe.casgrain


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/05/03 14:07 GMT (via web):
To unsubscribe: Click on Subscribe, and click Unsubscribe on the green bar. If you are subscribed but you do not have an Unsubscribe option, subscribe & then unsubscribe.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 14:55 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org writes:
> Yes, yes and yes. It's the latest tarball from Zwiki.org (downloaded at the
> beginning of this week). I will try to fetch the latest source via cvs to see
> if that helps.

It shouldn't.. so, looking at the page without the comment form, enter this url: .../page/comment?text=testcomment. Does it append a comment ?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 15:40 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> To unsubscribe: Click on Subscribe, and click Unsubscribe on the green
> bar. If you are subscribed but you do not have an Unsubscribe option,
> subscribe & then unsubscribe.

Hmm "subscribe & then unsubscribe" ? To be exact, I would say

To unsubscribe: 1. click on the url at the bottom of the mail you received 2. click Subscribe at the bottom of that page 3. (if your email address is not shown and there are no unsubscribe buttons: enter your email address and click Change. This needs to be the same address that you subscribed with.) 4. click the Unsubscribe button in the green area(s). 5. if additional pages are listed, you can go there to unsubscribe from those pages also.

Right ? Could we improve this ?


2002/05/03 16:07 GMT (via web):
looking at the page without the comment form, enter this url: .../page/comment?text=testcomment. Does it append a comment ?

Yes, the word testcomment appears at the bottom of the page (before the footer). But still no "Edit this page" or "Add a comment" box. I have logged out of /manage, so am an anonymous user.

Philippe.Casgrain


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 16:59 GMT (via mail):
PS, if someone managed to subscribe then un-subscribing should be obvious.. if not there's a problem. Viktor if things are still not clear, let us know.

-Simon


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 17:41 GMT (via mail):

> Yes, the word testcomment appears at the bottom of the page (before the
> footer). But still no "Edit this page" or "Add a comment" box. I have logged
> out of /manage, so am an anonymous user.

Ok, so you do have permission. Next take a look at your standard_wiki_footer, search for "comment form". What permissions does it check there ?

It should be "Zwiki: Edit pages" and "Zwiki: Add comments to pages" as in http://zwiki.org/releases/ZWiki-0.9.9.tgz (93734 bytes).

It should not be "Zwiki: Change wiki page content" and "Zwiki: Add comments to wiki pages" as in http://zwiki.org/releases/ZWiki-0.9.9-BAD.tgz (93709 bytes).

The latter was the release tarball for an hour or so. Could you have grabbed that one ?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/03 18:09 GMT (via mail):
Karl Anderson <kra@monkey.org> writes:
> I've released a stable version of BlogFace, a weblog interface for
> cataloged Zope objects.
>
> http://www.zope.org/Members/karl/BlogFace/BlogFace
>
> This release includes some notes on blogging a wiki.
>
> http://www.zope.org/Members/karl/BlogFace/BlogFace/wikiblog.txt

Karl - cool, this looks very nice.

I noticed you were looking for a way to get at rendered wiki content - what about page(bare=1) ? Also zwikipages have a utility method wikilink() which will just link a snippet of text for you.

It would be fun to see what the wiki behind your blog looks like. It should be easy to set up so you can mail in your blog entries too.

Regards, -Simon


Simon, 2002/05/04 15:55 GMT (via web):
The slow posting problem is happening all the time here now, and might be the reason Karl's response hasn't appeared here yet. I am working on it, presently looking for a curl replacement that I can install easily.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/04 16:59 GMT (via mail):
Ah no, it failed because he's not a subscriber. Here it is.

Karl Anderson <kra@monkey.org> writes:
> thx! Also, this gives you a configurable RSS view of the wiki. Or
> should - the RSS isn't well tested yet.
>
>> I noticed you were looking for a way to get at rendered wiki content -
>> what about page(bare=1) ?
>
> Oh, that works great! Now the External Method can be replaced with a
> Script(Python):
>
> request = container.REQUEST
> RESPONSE = request.RESPONSE
>
> if not request:
> request={}
> request.set(bare, 1)
> return context(REQUEST=request, RESPONSE=RESPONSE)
>
> This is also much better because it preserves the rendering style of
> the wiki, although I assume that DTML will break on cataloging if
> that's enabled.
>
> There's one bug, though - the explicit linking breaks because the
> generated link is relative to the publishing object.
>
> For example, if you call the above script bareWikiPage, and the wiki
> page TestPage contains the explicit link "foo bar":FooBar, then when
> wiki/TestPage/bareWikiPage is rendered, the link is to
> wiki/TestPage/FooBar, which fails.
>
> This is a problem with the old External Method, too - see
> http://viii.dclxvi.org/demo/wikiblog/blog/2002/4/23#17:54
>
>> It would be fun to see what the wiki behind your blog looks like.
>
> The blog entry titles are links to the wiki pages.


simon, 2002/05/04 21:18 GMT (via web):
ZwikiAndBlogFace created


simon, 2002/05/07 21:31 GMT (via web):
ZwikiAndExUserFolder:
> Here's an easier (non-ZMI) XUF admin interface I'm working on.
> To install: copy this (structuredtextdtml) page to a folder at or below
> your acl_users, make sure you have Manage Users permission, and manage away.


2002/05/08 00:36 GMT (via web):
I'm working on visualizations (see Meatball:JonSchull) and I'm wondering if its possible to get temporal data on page creations....?


2002/05/08 01:37 GMT (via web):
How do I not allow posts and changes from non authenticated users? i.e. user has ta have an account, and have logged in to make changes to the zwiki?


Simon, 2002/05/08 08:43 GMT (via web):
Well, there's the creation_time and creator properties..

Access control: disable the Zwiki: * permissions for Anonymous.


JosYule, 2002/05/08 16:58 GMT (via web):
Hey ya'll. I've been doing some reading about the reStructuredText project (http://docutils.sourceforge.net/). Without wanting to start a war over different STX methods :) the reST project seems to have implemented some excellent ideas - "fixing" some of the short falls of the current STX/ngSTX (well, issues that I have with it, YMMV). Here is a quick primer on it - http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/rst/quickstart.html . I was wondering if anyone else would be interested in a zwiki version that used this format of STX? I'm not voluntering to do it, mind you ;) just wondering...


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/05/08 17:35 GMT (via web):
Thanks for the STX info. Looking forward to the discussion.

In other news WikiWikiWeb won a Software Development managazine Productivity Award in the topic of Web Sites and Developer Networks: http://www.sdmagazine.com/jolts/


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/08 23:54 GMT (via mail):

>
> Hey ya'll. I've been doing some reading about the
> reStructuredText project
> (http://docutils.sourceforge.net/). Without wanting to start
> a war over
> different STX methods :) the reST project seems to have
> implemented some
> excellent ideas - "fixing" some of the short falls of the
> current STX/ngSTX
> issues (well, issues that I have with it, YMMV). Here is

The only big difference I can see is the way it does sections. And I agree that current StructuredText sections are the thing I get wrong the most and are therefore annoying. I'm not 100% on their solution to this however. It would be hard to remember whether ~~~~~~~~ is above or below ------------.

Perhaps there is a better way??

Since we're discussung STX ideas, the other thing that I'd like to use in STX is tables. ngSTX does this I believe but I'm not sure I like their implementation. Have a look at my suggestion here http://www.zope.org/Members/jim/StructuredTextWiki/StructuredTextTables


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/09 00:07 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> In other news WikiWikiWeb won a Software Development managazine
> Productivity Award in the topic of Web Sites and Developer Networks:

Hey, that's good.


> Thanks for the STX info. Looking forward to the discussion.

Jos - sure. :) Just need to define a render_restructuredtext method. Does RSTX do away with indenting ?


JosYule, 2002/05/09 01:05 GMT (via web):
Jay - the thing to "remember" with the headings is that whatever you use first is the top level. What ever you use next is the second level. So, if i used = under my H1/main heading, then used - under my first H2/sub heading and ~ under my H3/sub-sub heading, it auto-magically uses whatever you've set - i'm not explaning it very well - basically you don't have to "remember" which underline to use, you just have to be consistant with how you underline.

Tables - i recomend reading http://docutils.sourceforge.net/spec/rst/problems.html#tables for a good overview of some of the alternatives and why reST went the way they did. I'm a bit ambivilant on the whole table thing. I find my users just use html, as "building" them in text is actually harder then using explicit code. Not sure what the answer is, if there is one. I'd like something that would handle simple tables easily and quickly. If i have complex tabular data, i will construct the table by hand in html - probably. So that's pretty much a non-answer... :)

Simon - indenting is gone (to represent heading levels)! Thank the gods. They do use it to represent blockquoted text, examples (using the double : character) etc. I quite like how they represent the different heading levels. The way they handle footnotes and links is pretty cool too. Anyway, I'm keeping my eye on it and trying it out for some documentation i'm writing now - will run it through the processor to get the HTML out and see what i think.


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/09 01:25 GMT (via mail):

> Jay - the thing to "remember" with the headings is that

"Dylan", not "Jay"


> whatever you use first
> is the top level. What ever you use next is the second level.
> So, if i used
> = under my H1/main heading, then used - under my first
> H2/sub heading and
> ~ under my H3/sub-sub heading, it auto-magically uses
> whatever you've set -
> i'm not explaning it very well - basically you don't have to
> "remember" which
> underline to use, you just have to be consistant with how you
> underline.

That sounds like a great idea. I think that. Easy to introduce new levels. Sorry for not reading it carefully enough.

Is there any other features that are significantly different? (I didn't see any).


> Tables - i recoment reading
> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/spec/rst/problems.html#tables
> for a good
> overview of some of the alternatives and why reST went the
> way they did. I'm a
> bit ambibilant on the whole table thing. I find my users just
> use html, as
> "building" them in text is actually harder then using

yes. Trying to emulate the visual look using text is a stupid idea. I think focus of STX should be about emulating the structure, not the look. When it comes to tables I'd like something that is maintainable above all else.


> explicit code. Not sure
> what the answer is, if there is one. I'd like something that
> would handle
> simple tables easily and quickly. If i have complex tabular

Have a look at my suggestion then. My idea is to start with a 2 tier list and just indicate it should be marked up as a table instead of a lists. eg.::

RowTable

I'm still thinking it out, but the above looks like an easy way to creata a table quickly. And if you use ColTable instead of RowTable (or whatever marker), then you can change the orientation easily.

Another idea would be to make give a row/col a name so maintanance could be even easier eg::

RowTable

This way adding and removing cols doesn't require changes to every row.

Anyway, I'm still thinking about it, but I think it has promise. Tags are such a pain when your trying to think, which what I use STX/Wiki for.


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/05/09 03:49 GMT (via web):
I like indentation, and these intendation based approaches...but I don't know how to replace the basic text edit control in web browsers (perhaps it's JavaScript/HTML like Yahoo mails "colors-n-stuff" compose view?), or set them to "sticky tabs". Arg, it's late for me. Hope that made sense.


2002/05/09 13:15 GMT (via web):
Anyone know if ZWiki supports, or how to use TestPage Templates? I know ZWiki will support dtml, but TestPage Templates?


JeremyC, 2002/05/09 15:51 GMT (via web):
Has anyone used BoaConstructor to edit ZWiki pages? If so, how?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/10 17:12 GMT (via mail):

> I don't think the server itself is down, but I can't get a route to
> zwiki.org, nor joyfull.com. I have two T1s to Global Crossing which use

Jeff - yes it was offline for about eight hours due to a fiber cut between Fort Collins and Denver apparently. Should be back to normal now.


> And I REALLY needed to read the docs on how to set up ZWiki
> subscriptions. :(

http://zwiki.org/WikiMail - I'll try to give that page a brush-up today.

-Simon


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/10 18:24 GMT (via mail):
BoaConstructor - it looks interesting, how functional is it at this point ? How would you want to apply it together with zwiki ?

TestPage templates - zwiki has no special PT support. If there was, what would it look like ? Perhaps we could make the whole product a mixin class that could be mixed with DTMLDocument (current) or PageTemplate or ... ?


Simon, 2002/05/10 21:16 GMT (via web):
WikiMail setup docs updated


Simon, 2002/05/10 21:43 GMT (via web):
Mon dieu! yes, I am thinking of changing the hallowed "edit this page" to a terse "edit".


Simon, 2002/05/12 02:12 GMT (via web):
I have checked in a few interesting changes.. in particular this site is now doing partial pre-rendering of pages at edit time like WikiForNow, so for example structured text no longer needs to do its thing on every page view. This is important for usability - I unscientifically note that loading big pages like GeneralDiscussion and a full ZWikiTracker search seems about twice as fast here, eg mozilla reports 4s instead of 8s - and because it's a checklist item for sites like zope.org.

However.. to get this speedup in structuredtextdtml mode, which applies to many pages on this site, I have to switch the rendering order of stx and dtml. It's now stx first, dtml second, which will throw many mixed stx/dtml pages into confusion (visually at least). I think we need to adapt though.. investigating..


Simon, 2002/05/12 02:51 GMT (via web):
Ack, no good.. after fixing a bug I found stx screwing up all dtml code. I thought stx left sgml tags & their attributes alone ?


JeremyC, 2002/05/12 02:52 GMT (via web):
Maybe BoaConstructor wouldn't integrate with ZWiki. I had originally thought of putting some dtml in my ZWiki pages on my home machine, but I think I decided on some other avenues to accomplish the same goal.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/12 05:27 GMT (via mail):
I am working on making stx more dtml friendly.. pardon the breakage around zwiki.org right now.


Simon, 2002/05/12 06:52 GMT (via web):
There.. I was able to make stxNG smarter about leaving dtml tags alone. Still some dtml strangeness I haven't figured out, but most of the site seems to be working fine with the new code.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/13 17:09 GMT (via mail):
Tweaked my stx sgml regexp to avoid exponential time and remain fast, with luck. Otherwise a page like ChangeLog containing a loose > appeared to hang.


Mark Chambers 2002/05/17 (via web):
Oh boy - have I stuffed up. I have set up a ZWiki site with a whole bunch of pages for a demo tomorrow. One of the things that I wanted to demonstrate was showing who made each change (it's for an intranet). In a clearly misguided attempt to get this behaviour, I turned off all the options under Aquire Permission Settings and turned them on under Authenticated. Now I get asked for a user name and password over an over. Q1. How do I reverse this so that I can get back in? Q2. How do I achieve the security that I want? Q3. Can someone explain the various ZWiki security options (or point me at a page, if one exists). Thanks in advance for any help.


2002/05/16 14:27 GMT (via web):
comments don't work!


BillSeitz, 2002/05/16 15:58 GMT (via web):
I've been doing some research on approaches to creating links across wiki sites - see WebSeitzWiki:WikiWeb. I'm surpised to see RemoteWikiURL (RemoteWikiLinks) implemented differently from MeatBall:InterMap. Is there a reason for this?


2002/05/16 23:20 GMT (via web):
Oh boy - have I stuffed up. I have set up a ZWiki site with a whole bunch of pages for a demo tomorrow. One of the things that I wanted to demonstrate was showing who made each change (it's for an intranet). In a clearly misguided attempt to get this behaviour, I turned off all the options under Aquire Permission Settings and turned them on under Authenticated. Now I get asked for a user name and password over an over. Q1. How do I reverse this so that I can get back in? Q2. How do I achieve the security that I want? Q3. Can someone explain the various ZWiki security options (or point me at a page, if one exists). Thanks in advance for any help.


Christopher Nilsson <Christopher.Nilsson@jcu.edu.au>, 2002/05/17 03:39 GMT (via mail):
Mark Chambers wrote:


>Oh boy - have I stuffed up. I have set up a ZWiki site with a whole bunch of
>pages for a demo tomorrow.
> :) Isn't that the only time when things stuff up?


>One of the things that I wanted to demonstrate was
>showing who made each change (it's for an intranet). In a clearly misguided
>attempt to get this behaviour, I turned off all the options under Aquire
>Permission Settings
>and turned them on under Authenticated. Now I get asked for a user name and
>password over an over.
>
>Q1. How do I reverse this so that I can get back in?
> If you have completely locked yourself out, have you tried the Zope Emergency User? There's information about how to set up and user this emergency user over at the Zope site, at: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/ZopeBook/Security.stx (under the "Special User Accounts" section).


>
>Q2.
>How do I achieve the security that I want?
> If you only want to make the changes for a specific folder, and everything under it, go to the security settings for that folder and untick the "Acquire Permission settings" box for:

  1. "Zwiki: Edit Pages" 2. "Zwiki: Add comments to pages"

Instead, only allow roles Autheticated, Manager, and whatever other roles you want to give access to, for these two permissions.


>Q3. Can someone explain the various
>ZWiki security options (or point me at a page, if one exists).
> See the link for answer to Q1.


>Thanks in
>advance for
>any help.
> Welcome. Hope this helps.


Mark Chambers <mark.chambers@objectmastery.com>, 2002/05/17 05:11 GMT (via mail):
Thanks Christopher,

Christopher Nilsson wrote:


> If you have completely locked yourself out, have you tried the Zope
> Emergency User?
> There's information about how to set up and user this emergency user
> over at the Zope site, at:
> http://www.zope.org/Documentation/ZopeBook/Security.stx (under the
> "Special User Accounts" section).

I had tried this but couldn't get it working (until about an hour ago) The key piece of information that was missing was that I needed to stop and restart zope before the change came into effect. I have added a comment to the above document.

Thanks again,

Mark Chambers


2002/05/17 15:27 GMT (via web):
I have created a little snippet of code that generates ZWiki topic links that can be used with the current TouchGraph TG WikiBrowser V1.01 as it's text database. TouchGraph is very cool. See www.touchgraph.com. All you have to do is save this code as an external method in your ZWiki folder, run it, copy and save the resultant output as a text file, modify the bat file used to start up TouchGraph to use your text file and point to your ZWiki on the Web, and you are in business. (Of course, you have to install the latest Java JRE and TouchGraph first.) Then you can visually (ala "The Brain") navigate your ZWiki topics. The TouchGraph Wiki Browser has a nice interface. I encourage you to check it out with your ZWiki site. The code snippet follows:

#courtesy of Marc Conley, Cumming, Georgia, USA, zwikiorg@oconley.com

import string

def genLinksDatabase(self): aDict = {} result = ""

for theObject in self.objectValues("ZWiki TestPage"): aDict[theObject.__name__] = theObject

keys = aDict.keys()

keys.sort()

for k in keys: words = string.split(str(aDict[k])) tempDict = {} for w in words: tempDict[w] = None words = tempDict.keys() words.sort()

result = result + k

for w in words: if aDict.has_key(w): if w != k: result = result + " " + w

result = result + "\n"

return result


BillSeitz, 2002/05/17 18:44 GMT (via web):
I tweaked the code to make it work as a Script. See WebSeitzWiki:TouchGraph for links to a screenshot and the 2 files you need to launch the real view of my wiki. This is so cool...


JeremyC, 2002/05/18 02:21 GMT (via web):
I cannot make your script work. Can you please leave a little more details on making it function so the newbie can use it as well?


2002/05/18 08:21 GMT (via web):
I tried to add an issue about the ZwikiIssueTracker, but forget to give it a title. I'm now getting the error IssueN001 is in use (doesn't look good)

I'm now having troubles installing the ZwikiIssueTracker on my own site. Can you provide a 'zwikitracker'-template and/or give some installation details?

Thanks for this great product, PieterB


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/19 23:56 GMT (via mail):

>
> I tweaked the code to make it work as a Script. See
> WebSeitzWiki:TouchGraph
> for links to a screenshot and the 2 files you need to launch
> the real view of
> my wiki. This is so cool...

I havn't looked at the detail yet but why is it running as an app rather than a applet? Can we hack this so it all resides on the server as an applet and dynamically aquires the link base? ie a three file upload installation.


Mark Chambers, 2002/05/20 02:02 GMT (via web):
Can anyone point me at a simple guide to using images in Zwiki? I know you can do it because ClassDiagram displays an image and I know you can upload file in zope because the File Library Example can do it - I just can't see how you put it all together.


Mark Chambers, 2002/05/20 02:06 GMT (via web):
When I started playing with Zwiki, I had to keep hitting the browswer's refresh button and I got very confused during editing when I forgot. Adding the following 3 lines to the standard html header causes the browser to always reload Zwiki pages.




These lines should go in as the very first lines of the header.


Mark Chambers, 2002/05/20 02:07 GMT (via web):
Oops. HTML'ed! I'll try again.




Mark Chambers, 2002/05/20 02:09 GMT (via web):
Damm. try this...

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="Mon, 06 Jan 1990 00:00:01 GMT">
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache">
<META HTTP-EQUIV="cache-control" VALUE="no-cache, no-store,must-revalidate">


2002/05/20 07:54 GMT (via web):
Hi Guys,

Another newbie question - when I add a comment to one of my wiki pages and check the header checkbox, the entry gets labeled with my Zope login name, not my wiki user name. Is this by design? Can I change this behaviour?

Regards, Mark Chambers


Simon, 2002/05/20 16:07 GMT (via web):
Back after a week camping in the mountains - ohh thank god for clean air, blue skies, and nothing that beeps.

We had a pair of skunks that sort of took over the food area when they felt like it. The last time I saw skunk he was in the kitchen tent, past the barricade of coolers at the entrance, and half-way into an opened saucepan of chili with one back foot up on the edge of the pot for leverage.. a funny sight.


Simon, 2002/05/20 16:49 GMT (via web):
Before leaving I checked in changes to do structured text formatting once at edit time a la WikiForNow and did some performance investigation using the zeo debug prompt and python profiler. (This is the first time I've considered performance in zwiki's two-year history, which I think is quite a testament to python and zope).

I got some interesting insights into what parts of page rendering are slow. StructuredText formatting is indeed one of these; on this server it takes on the order of a second per 10K of text. So, pre-rendering this has given a good speedup to large stx pages like GeneralDiscussion.

All page types/render modes may now do part of their work (eg stx formatting) at edit time and re-use it at view time. Dynamic (dtml-enabled ) pages can make best use of this by prerendering static parts of the page and rendering the dynamic parts last, so I changed the structuredtextdtml mode to process dtml after stx, adding a dtmlstructuredtext page type which preserves the old behaviour. (For 0.9.10, I might start using stxdtml & dtmlstx, converting old structuredtextdtml pages to the latter).

The other significant slowdown comes simply from replacing the wikilink regular expression. Specifically, the wikiname1 and wikiname2 regexps are slow on large pages. Possibilities for speedup:

  1. a regexp wizard might be able to optimize these so they do less backtracking. The trick I used to optimize dtmlorsgmlexpr didn't seem to work here. Here they are for reference:
     UC = string.uppercase                   
     LC = string.lowercase
     wikiname1        = r'\b[%s]+[%s]+[%s][%s]*[0-9]*' % (UC,LC,UC,UC+LC)
     wikiname2        = r'\b[%s][%s]+[%s][%s]*[0-9]*' % (UC,UC,LC,UC+LC)
    
  2. isn't there a c implementation of the re module ? I don't think this server is using it ?
  3. search for the wiki links and cache their locations during the pre-render phase. This is probably worth doing in any case, since we already talked about extracting the links to facilitate faster & more accurate backlinks.


Simon, 2002/05/20 18:59 GMT (via web):
It looks as if a bunch of GeneralDiscussion comments got lost when someone did an edit to clean up something else - repaired. I wonder if we got bit by #4 international characters are html-quoted in editform (lossage due to a browser not supporting non-ascii characters).


Simon, 2002/05/21 19:08 GMT (via web):
21-day pack: 160 -> 134 Mb.

Integrated AddIssue onto ZwikiIssueTracker, and hid the footer there. (To get at the source use ZwikiIssueTracker or ZwikiIssueTracker.)

Renamed HelpAboutCVSInstallation using the page rename feature - that rocked. (configure a username & turn on advanced edit options).


Simon, 2002/05/21 22:17 GMT (via web):
Made "minimal" more minimal. Less is more.

Checked in the standard_wiki_header change which displays the new last_edit_time property in preference to bobobase_modification_time. Recent changes & the tracker should do the same.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/22 19:38 GMT (via mail):
Is there a way to view an overall changelog at sourceforge ? That would be better than my manually-uploaded ChangeLog.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/22 19:44 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BillSeitz) writes:
> I've been doing some research on approaches to creating links across
> wiki sites - see WebSeitzWiki:WikiWeb. I'm surpised to see RemoteWikiURL
> (RemoteWikiLinks) implemented differently from MeatBall:InterMap. Is
> there a reason for this?

for what.. that it's on multiple pages instead of a central page, or that it's user writable, or.. ?

At the time I'm not sure there were any other working inter wiki implementations to look at.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/22 19:46 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (Mark Chambers) writes:
> Can anyone point me at a simple guide to using images in Zwiki? I know
> you can do it because ClassDiagram displays an image and I
> know you can upload file in zope because the File Library Example can do
> it - I just can't see how you put it all together.

Mark - enable AdvancedEditOptions to enable file upload on the edit form. You can also include remote images by using a html img tag. Let me know if you need more.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/22 19:49 GMT (via mail):

> Another newbie question - when I add a comment to one of my wiki pages and
> check the header checkbox, the entry gets labeled with my Zope login name,
> not my wiki user name. Is this by design? Can I change this behaviour?

Yes, an authenticated zope username takes precedence over the zwiki_username cookie. To change this you would need to alter zwiki_username_or_ip() in ZWikiPage.py.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/22 20:03 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (Mark Chambers) writes:
> When I started playing with Zwiki, I had to keep hitting the browswer's
> refresh button and I got very confused during editing when I forgot. Adding
> the following 3 lines to the standard html header causes the browser to always
> reload Zwiki pages.

If you mean just the editform.. I think that's probably a good idea. What browser are you using ? I seem to remember needing to turn off page caching with konqueror, though current mozilla handles the editform just fine.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/22 21:26 GMT (via mail):

> I tried to add an issue about the ZwikiIssueTracker, but forget to give it a
> title. I'm now getting the error IssueN001 is in use (doesn't look
> good)

thanks, fixed (#159 add issue often gives a Copy Error or says IssueNo0001 already in use)


> I'm now having troubles installing the ZwikiIssueTracker on my own site. Can you
> provide a 'zwikitracker'-template and/or give some installation details?
>
> Thanks for this great product, PieterB

Thanks. Tracker installation will be made easier (how ? a zodb-based template ?) but for now see AdminHowtos. I have brought it up to date.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/22 21:27 GMT (via mail):
Checked in fixes for some regressions in cvs today - the old permissions had reappeared in the zwikidotorg footer & edit form. Also page creation had broken recently, affecting this site also.


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/05/23 01:59 GMT (via web):

>> the entry gets labeled with my Zope login name, not my wiki user name


>Yes, an authenticated zope username takes precedence over the zwiki_username cookie. To change this you would need to alter zwiki_username_or_ip() in ZWikiPage.py.

This is FAQ Worthy stuff! This one especially bites administrators editing & ZMI'ing in the same session...where do ZWiki Administration FAQ's go?


Mark Chambers, 2002/05/23 02:19 GMT (via web):

>> When I started playing with Zwiki, I had
>> to keep hitting the browser's refresh
>> button and I got very confused during
>> editing when I forgot.
>> Adding the following 3 lines to the
>> standard html header causes the browser
>> to always reload Zwiki pages.


> If you mean just the editform. I think
> that's probably a good idea. What
> browser are you using ? I seem to
> remember needing to turn off page
> caching with konqueror, though
> current mozilla handles the editform
> just fine.

I changed it for all pages on the assumption that our content is changing rapidly and we are on a LAN not a WAN so forcing a reload is no big deal.

I'm using Opera, but we also use IE and various versions of Netscape inc Mozilla


2002/05/23 04:09 GMT (via web):
Dean - aha! a volunteer! Well it could go on ZwikiFAQ to start with.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/23 05:33 GMT (via mail):
Working too long.. trying to back up Data.fs, wiped it out instead. I went on irc and Ethan gave me a 12-hour old backup within minutes. Meanwhile the site mostly kept running from cache, so I grabbed copies of the recent pages. So no major losses. Lucky me!


Mark Chambers, 2002/05/23 08:10 GMT (via web):

>> Can anyone point me at a simple guide to using images in Zwiki? I know
>> you can do it because ClassDiagram displays an image and I
>> know you can upload file in zope because the File Library Example can do
>> it - I just can't see how you put it all together.


>Mark - enable AdvancedEditOptions to enable file upload on the edit
>form. You can also include remote images by using a html img tag. Let me
>know if you need more.

Simon, I'm afraid I need more! Where do I "enable AdvancedEditOptions"?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/23 15:11 GMT (via mail):
Mark - click on "AdvancedEditOptions", and all should become clear! :)

Ie you turn this on in UserOptions (or by clicking "full"). The UserOptions was "Show advanced edit form", which I've now changed to "Show advanced edit options".


PeterFunk, 2002/05/23 15:49 GMT (via web):
Has someone already written a script to convert WikiPages from MoinMoin into ZWiki? How hard would this be?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/23 15:58 GMT (new page):
UploadingFiles created


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/05/23 16:34 GMT (via web):

>> trying to back up Data.fs, wiped it out instead

Eek! Any idea what caused that? I've always thought the "just copy the file" method was fairly safe.


Simon, 2002/05/23 16:37 GMT (via web):
Dean - yes, see the current AnnoyingQuote. Don't do that. :) I would have expected it to fail without destroying the file, but there you go.


Simon, 2002/05/23 16:39 GMT (via web):
Shoot, I got it backwards. Again. Now the quote is correct.


Simon, 2002/05/23 16:51 GMT (via web):
Marc, Bill - it sounds like the TouchGraph method/script is evolving - keep me posted. I can't run java here right now but if you post a link to your latest version I'll look into setting it up for this site.


2002/05/23 17:02 GMT (via web):
Hi,

From my reading through all that I can find, it seems there is supposed to be an "Advanced Options" link somewhere, as well as a an AdvancedEditOptions link somewhere. I can't seem to find either. I'm using ZWiki-0.9.9 on Zope 2.5.1 on a Windows XP Pro system.

What I'm actually trying to accomplish is allowing Anonymous users to add comments to certain ZWiki pages, and then be able to include WikiLinks which they can then define for themselves.

TIA for any help.


Simon, 2002/05/23 18:31 GMT (via web):
AdvancedEditOptions is a documentation page on this site (http://zwiki.org/AdvancedEditOptions). It's not in the zwikidotorg template.

You do have the option itself; it's on your UserOptions, and it's called Show advanced edit form ? (the word form has now been changed to options). Does this help ?

It sounds like what you'll want to do is permit anonymous page editing/adding in the folder, but remove anonymous Zwiki: edit pages permission from certain pages. Anonymous will be able to comment there, and create & edit new pages.


"Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>, 2002/05/24 01:06 GMT (via mail):
I think file upload shouldn't be "advanced". I think if the correct permissions are there then just show it. My2c


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Michael
> Sent: Friday, 24 May 2002 1:07 AM
> To: @joyful.com
> Subject: zwiki.org GeneralDiscussion
>
>
> Mark - click on "AdvancedEditOptions", and all should become clear! :)
>
> Ie you turn this on in UserOptions (or by clicking "full"). The
> UserOptions was "Show advanced edit form", which I've now
> changed to "Show
> advanced edit options".
>
> --
> forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion
>


Simon, 2002/05/24 18:51 GMT (via web):
Started AllAboutPageTypes (& ZwikiPerformance, StructuredTextTables..). We have two new page types:

Getting these reliable is progressively more tricky, as they need to preserve all dtml through the structured text and wiki-linking stages. Otherwise dtml tags containing stx or wikilink formatting will get mangled resulting in a dtml error. Brain-twisting regexps are applied here. These aren't perfect (I don't know if they can be); can be improved; might be good enough. (Doing DTML first was simpler but made it impossible to cache anything.)

I feel pretty good about structuredtextdtml right now and reasonably good about stxprelinkdtml but the latter needs more evaluation. It's in theory the fastest mode for stx/dtml pages, so should probably become the standard approach, but most pages won't see any speedup and it complicates the code so we'll see.

Pre-linking should also help the other types, and be less tricky without dtml; I haven't got to that yet.

Let me know if you have comments. Also see the proposed renaming on AllAboutPageTypes.


Simon, 2002/05/24 19:32 GMT (via web):
PS - other things you'll notice as a result of the recent changes (except in the old dtmlstx mode):


Simon, 2002/05/28 02:40 GMT (via web):
Checked in lightly-tested WikiForNow regulations support (set use_regulations folder property true to enable). Only makes sense if all users are authenticated I think.


simon, 2002/05/29 20:19 GMT (via web):
Checked in the beginnings of i18n support. Requires LocalizerProduct, has no effect if it's not available. Following Juan David Ibáñez's guide, I translated one (1) message and observed it's glorious multilinguality (by switching to netscape, setting my preferred language to irish (ga) and generating an edit conflict). I'm not sure if .po files should go in cvs, you can find them at [zwikidir/locale]?. Translators could begin working with these now I think. I have a bunch of questions, currently noted in the work queue.

Updated i18n, renamed ZwikiTranslation to OldI18nDiscussion. You might want to subscribe over there if you are interested in this topic.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/29 22:06 GMT (via mail):
Poking around on the PeopleUsingZwiki.. boy check that out. Amazing what you'll find out there. :)


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/29 22:22 GMT (via mail):
Also implemented by EduML of course.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/29 22:24 GMT (via mail):
Also implemented by EduML of course.


rossini@blindglobe.net (A.J. Rossini), 2002/05/29 22:44 GMT (via mail):

>>>>> "simon" == Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> writes:

simon> Poking around on the PeopleUsingZwiki.. boy check simon> that simon> out. Amazing what you'll find out there. :)

Simon, THANK YOU. I'd gotten a hack at displaymath using ttml/tth, but this is so useful (for me... I'm a statistician, so what do I know?)

best, -tony

--- A.J. Rossini rossini@u.washington.edu http://software.biostat.washington.edu/


2002/05/30 00:11 GMT (via web):
(from TonyRossini again):

Took a few patches to work in general, but they were fairly straightforward (it uses an older ZWiki module set, requires replacing xread with read, and adding headers/footers :-).


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/05/30 03:29 GMT (via web):

>> isn't there a c implementation of the re module ? I don't think this server is using it ?

I recall something like this myself, and after searching over the A. Kuchlin "What's new" http://www.amk.ca/python/ stuff I can't find anything...perhaps it's a Jython feature?

Other thought it that it's newer than than the stable release supported by Zope.

Not much help...but thought I might revive some cues.


BillSeitz, 2002/05/30 13:30 GMT (via web):
re: WebSeitzWiki:WikiWeb... for what.. that it's on multiple pages instead of a central page, or that it's user writable, or.. ?


Simon, 2002/05/30 16:02 GMT (via web):
Oh yes ? Who says that's the standard ? :)

Some bad dtml was added to ZwikiTrail, breaking FrontPage.. fixed.


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/30 16:15 GMT (new page):
ZwikiAndLaTex created


Mark Chambers, 2002/05/31 04:00 GMT (via web):

>> Another newbie question - when I add a comment to
>> one of my wiki pages and check the header
>> checkbox, the entry gets labeled with my Zope
>> login name, not my wiki user name. Is this
>> by design? Can I change this behaviour?


> Yes, an authenticated zope username takes precedence over the
> zwiki_username cookie. To change this you would need to alter
> zwiki_username_or_ip() in ZWikiPage.py.

This seems to work:

    def zwiki_username_or_ip(self, REQUEST=None):
        """
        search REQUEST for an authenticated member or a zwiki_username
        cookie

        XXX added REQUEST arg at one point when sending mail
        notification in append() was troublesome - still needed ?

        modified by MDC to prefer:
          1 the zwiki username
          2 the authenticated user 
          3 the request IP address.
        """
        username = None
        REQUEST = REQUEST or getattr(self,'REQUEST',None)
        if REQUEST:
            if REQUEST.cookies.has_key('zwiki_username'):
                username = REQUEST.cookies.get('zwiki_username')
            else:
                user = REQUEST.get('AUTHENTICATED_USER')
                if user:
                    username = user.getUserName()
                else:
                  if username == str(user.acl_users._nobody):
                    username = None 
        if not username:
            username = REQUEST.REMOTE_ADDR
        return username or ''


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/31 18:45 GMT (via mail):
ZODB size is getting out of control, I am hitting my disk quota, getting out of memory errors etc. And that's in addition to my usual "experiments". So, apologies if you are finding the site to be erratic right now. I would like to hear about it if you do.

Changing the mailin To address to ; does seem to have solved the slow posting problem we were seeing. Just a workaround until we understand it.

14-day zodb pack: 225 -> 159Mb