This is an archive page, please add new posts on GeneralDiscussion.

PieterB, 2002/12/01 11:15 GMT (via web):
RFC: How about creating a link from UserOptions? to some subscription page and vica versa. Or mentioning the pages subscribed to at the UserOptions? page.

Why doesn't subscribeform have a WikiName like SubscribeForm??

weigert, 2002/12/01 14:42 GMT (via web):
A newbie question (but from one with long history in TWiki)... is there a roadmap that describes the strategy regarding further ZWiki development? The reason for this question is that I would like to point to features I found very useful in TWiki and which I would miss if I were to switch my organization over to Zope/ZWiki...

Simon Michael, 2002/12/01 16:28 GMT (via mail):
Zwiki 0.13 released

Zwiki version 0.13.0 is out. Bugfixes, more solid CMF & Plone support, wikimail enhancements, skins re-organization.

Download: http://zwiki.org or http://zope.org/Members/simon/ZWiki and check http://zwiki.org/KnownIssues .

Happy holidays, -Simon

Zwiki 0.13.0 2002-12-01

Summary

Bugfixes, more solid CMF & Plone support, wikimail enhancements, skins re-organization.

Upgrade notes

If you have mailin set up and find replies going to the default page instead of the originating page, see [#376 mailin: a page name in the recipient real name is ignored unless the address looks like ...(wiki|tracker|bugs|mailin)@...]?.

Changes

CMF

Mail

Skins and wiki content

General

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/02 16:14 GMT (via web):
TWiki features

Which TWiki features are on your critical list?

Which Zope features are you looking forward to?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/02 16:18 GMT (via web):
Catalog crashes

As a sidenote, the catalog crashes I incurred also had to do with pages in the /recycle_bin cataloged that had an attached file at one point.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/02 22:53 GMT (via web):
test

SimonMichael, 2002/12/02 23:04 GMT (via web):
Zope is unhappier than usual today. Looks like the usual [[[#226 on freebsd, python/zope may crash repeatably when browsing diffs or saving certain pages] on FreeBSD?, python may crash repeatably when viewing or saving certain wiki pages] on FreeBSD?, python may crash repeatably when viewing or saving certain wiki pages] error 11 sigsegv's, I haven't investigated further.

I wasn't going to say this in case I couldn't stick to it, but what the heck: my focus for december is tests, refactoring and perhaps a bit of writing. A solution for this disastrous freebsd python would be very very nice as well.

Having said that, I may soon need wikimail digests for a client. Any good implementation ideas would be welcome, here or over on the quiet WikiMailDiscussion page.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/02 23:06 GMT (via web):
Oh. GeneralDiscussion had become large.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/02 23:11 GMT (via web):
Rendering order question

Why doesn't this render as a wiki-link:

 <dtml-let myvar="'WikiName'"><dtml-var myvar></dtml-let>

Example: WikiName

Simon Michael, 2002/12/02 23:42 GMT (via mail):
Rendering order question

zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> Why doesn't this render as a wiki-link::

The default page type does wiki-linking before DTML, to allow more caching. You can tell this from the name: prelinkstxdtmlhtml/"Structured text + links + DTML + HTML".

So, you can have your DTML do a little extra wiki linking of it's own by calling wikilink(). See FAQ for an example. I used to do this on ReleaseNotes and ChangeLog? too, but it's slow right now.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/03 00:00 GMT (via mail):
Rendering order question

zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:

 <dtml-let myvar="'WikiName'"><dtml-var myvar></dtml-let>

Oh, and: 'WikiName' here is ignored by the early linking pass because it's within a SGML tag. It will leave '& dtml-WikiName;' alone too.

And I should have said stxprelinkdtmlhtml.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/03 03:32 GMT (via web):
DTML which produces links...

Arg..overlooked the obvious--especially an alternate (better?) way to produce AllDiscussions?.

I added a comment on ZwikiFAQ?, but due to the earlier issues it didn't mail-out regarding a defualt radio button. Would have addd the checked attribute, but not sure which one, and had a little TestPage Maintainers Anxiety ;-)

FAQ has an aq_parent parent call in it. Strange term. Glad to see it doesn't acquire parent wiki pages in it's search.

I'll give the other code a crack at all discussions...maybe that will solve the error I got when trying to put AllDiscussions? on WikiTrails? . Off to try.

2002/12/03 05:28 GMT (via web):
When trying to use the CMF migrationscript in HowToMigrateACMFWiki I get the follwing traceback (I would have placed this comment there except that page kept tracebacking):

Traceback (innermost last):
  File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 150, in publishmodule
  File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 114, in publish
  File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 159, in zpublisher_exception_hook
    (Object: ProductWiki)
  File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 98, in publish
  File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 88, in mapply
    (Object: migrate_cmfwiki)
  File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 39, in call_object
    (Object: migrate_cmfwiki)
  File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Products/ExternalMethod/ExternalMethod.py, line 198, in __call_
    (Object: migrate_cmfwiki)
    (Info: ((<CMFWikiFolder instance at a454cc8>,), {}, None))
  File /var/lib/zope/Extensions/migrate_cmfwiki.py, line 4, in migrate_cmfwiki
    (Object: ProductWiki)
AttributeError: aq_container

Justin Clift, 2002/12/03 05:42 GMT (via mail):
WTF? What's up with moving the Admin Guide?

Hi Simon,

What's up with moving the admin guide without telling anyone?

Arrrghh.... talk about breaking links

Not Happy.

:-/

+ Justin

-- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/03 15:12 GMT (via web):
ZwikiAdministrationGuide?

Is this a good candidate for the id to be ZwikiAdminGuide?, and the Title ZwikiAdministrationGuide? ?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/03 15:35 GMT (via web):
Fuzzy link id capatilization

I created [aaaDG]? , but the page was created with an id of AaaDG?, and titled aaaDG.

Is the first letter capatalization necesary?

(Also, how nasty is dual names for a page functionalyt when considering tools like "change all links" when renaming?)

Simon Michael, 2002/12/03 16:56 GMT (via mail):
WTF? What's up with moving the Admin Guide?

zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> What's up with moving the admin guide without telling anyone?

I saw you liked to use "Zwiki Administration Guide" everywhere so I thought I'd give it the longer wikiname and maybe you'd use that.

Should I have left a placeholder ?

Simon Michael, 2002/12/03 17:01 GMT (via mail):
ZWikiAdministrationGuide?

zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> Is this a good candidate for the id to be ZWikiAdminGuide?, and the Title
> ZWikiAdministrationGuide? ?

I feel it's worth sticking to the "one page, one name" doctrine here. With an extra place holder page if truly needed.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/03 22:07 GMT (via web):
The site is hitting it's memory quota a lot at the moment due to bots, please see [[[[#351 zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] for latest status.

Justin Clift, 2002/12/03 22:40 GMT (via mail):
WTF? What's up with moving the Admin Guide?

Simon Michael wrote:
> zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
>
>>What's up with moving the admin guide without telling anyone?
>
>
> I saw you liked to use "Zwiki Administration Guide" everywhere so I
> thought I'd give it the longer wikiname and maybe you'd use that.
>
> Should I have left a placeholder ?

Of course.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

PieterB, 2002/12/04 12:22 GMT (via web):
Problems creating an Issue, AttributeError?

On Zwiki.org, when creating the page CMFCollectorNG? (source), I got the following traceback:

 Site Error
 An error was encountered while publishing this resource. 

 AttributeError

 Sorry, a site error occurred.

 Traceback (innermost last): 

 Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publish_module 
 Module Products.Localizer, line 58, in new_publish 
 Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish 
 Module Zope, line 171, in zpublisher_exception_hook 
 Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish 
 Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply 
 Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object 
 Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 223, in __call__ 
 Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 235, in _render 
 Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 418, in render_stxprelinkdtmlhtml 
 Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 326, in addStandardLayoutTo 
 Module Shared.DC.Scripts.Bindings, line 252, in __call__ 
 Module Shared.DC.Scripts.Bindings, line 283, in _bindAndExec 
 Module Products.PageTemplates.PageTemplateFile, line 96, in _exec 
 Module Products.PageTemplates.PageTemplate, line 95, in pt_render
 <MyPageTemplateFile at /zwiki/ZopeIssueTrackers/> 
 Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 186, in __call__ 
 Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 230, in interpret 
 Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 655, in do_condition 
 Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 230, in interpret 
 Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 655, in do_condition 
 Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 230, in interpret 
 Module TAL.TALInterpreter, line 578, in do_insertStructure_tal 
 Module Products.PageTemplates.TALES, line 217, in evaluate
 URL: wikipage
 Line 54, Column 0
 Expression: <PythonExpr here.context(request,enlarge_current=1)>
 Names:
 {'container': <Folder instance at 9080a40>,
  'default': <Products.PageTemplates.TALES.Default instance at 0x88b8e0c>,
  'here': <ZWikiPage 'ZopeIssueTrackers' at 0x914da50>,
  'loop': <SafeMapping instance at 914d990>,
  'modules': <Products.PageTemplates.ZRPythonExpr._SecureModuleImporter instance at 0x88c4e8c>,
  'nothing': None,
  'options': {'args': (),
              'body': <SNIP>
  'repeat': <SafeMapping instance at 914d990>,
  'request': <HTTPRequest, URL=http://zwiki.org/ZopeIssueTrackers>,
  'root': <Application instance at 9068e00>,
  'template': <MyPageTemplateFile at /zwiki/ZopeIssueTrackers/>,
  'traverse_subpath': [],
  'user': Anonymous User}
 Module Products.PageTemplates.ZRPythonExpr, line 48, in __call__
 __traceback_info__: here.context(request,enlarge_current=1) 
 Module Python expression "here.context(request,enlarge_current=1)", line 2, in f 
 Module Products.ZWiki.Parents, line 149, in context 
 AttributeError 

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/04 16:27 GMT (via web):
TestPage id's starting with capital letter

Realized that this is a bit of a safety net against matching zope objects, which are usually named in all underscores. Still curious, less annoyed, less concerned.

PieterB, 2002/12/04 16:58 GMT (via web):
There are currently 103 open/pending whishlist issues in the ZwikiIssueTracker. Most of them are not active for more than 6 months. It's about 27% of the total tracker issues. It might be a good idea to skim the list (e.g. to close old anonymous whishlist entries) or to group some of them in new issues. Any thoughts?

Dean: Thanks for snipping the BODY-tag of my previous post.

JordanCarswell, 2002/12/04 17:27 GMT (via web):
I just installed the External Editor helper app and configured it to work with Mozilla. I can get it to edit and publish wiki pages, upload images, et al, but there are three (3) publishing quirks that came up:

  1. The connection from Mozilla to the helper app gets dropped. This was mentioned as a configuration problem in the External Editor documentation.
  2. When the page opens in Composer, this line gets added to the page: "Wiki-Safetybelt: 1039021126.77 Type: stxprelinkdtmlhtml Log:". I just deleted it, but is there a way to have it not show up at all?
  3. When publishing the wiki page back to the server, the file name is garbled, for example GeneralDiscussion reads as "~3432-0-zwiki.org,GeneralDiscussion.html". Of course, I can change this manually to "GeneralDiscussion", but for novice users this is annoying and for regular users it is an annoyance.

To get to the point, has anyone tried using External Editor with Mozilla or Netscape? If so have you encountered these issues? Are there fixes?

Would it be possible to make External Editor, Zwiki, and Mozilla work together more seamlessly? The advantage of having a WYSIWYG editor is obvious and i think using Composer is a great solution, but I am not enough of a programmer to know how to make it work. Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 18:20 GMT (via mail):
How do we choose different skins?

zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> With the new 0.13.0 version of Zwiki, it seems to have the concept of
> "skins" built in by default.

No functional change there, I just renamed some directories and put the default (non-CMF) "skin" together with the CMF skins. This is coming together well. I wrote this somewhere, but I can't remember where - we now have:

 ZWiki
  skins
   default    - default UI methods & templates, used outside of CMF
   zwiki_cmf  - default simple CMF skin
   zwiki_orig - alternate CMF skin, looks like default
  content
   basic      - default pages & dtml methods for a new wiki
   tracker    - extra content for a tracker, etc. (future)


> Is there an way for site admin's or end users to?
>
> 0. Easily change the default skin that is used
>
> 0. Add new skins
>
> 0. Remove skins

The easiest way to play around with changing skins is to set up your wiki in a CMF site. cmf_install_zwiki will add the zwiki_cmf directory to your existing site skins, and you can customize in the usual CMF skinning way.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 18:32 GMT (via mail):
Re: Little question

=C1lvaro Tejero Cantero <alvaro@antalia.com> writes:
> I am trying to wget --mirror from
> http://alqua.com/tmresources/bug%20reports but it doesn't follow links.
> Neither downloading the page and passing it through wget -i. Any clues?.

Hi =C1lvaro, sorry that I haven't been able to help with this. I can tell you I've done it in the past, it can be made to work. I might have built a list of http://PAGE/text urls and then wget'd or curl'd those, because I wanted the source text. If I find the recipe I'll post it.=20

Someone posted a response about robot exclusion tags which might be affecting you ? I'm not sure you can make wget ignore these, but curl can.

Keep posting on GeneralDiscussion and we should be able to figure it out. I'll cc there.


> I hope I will have more time in the future to maintain the site...

Good luck.. upgrade and maybe it will still be useful for discussion at least. I think your texmacs site was the first extensive use of a wiki for bug tracking that I saw. I am using a similar scheme for bug tracking on a site as a simpler alternative to zwikitracker, just naming pages like=20 [5 issue so and so].

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 18:36 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (PieterB) writes:
> issues. It might be a good idea to skim the list (e.g. to close old anonymous
> whishlist entries) or to group some of them in new issues. Any thoughts?

Good idea. Name a few here and let's see if they need some action.

PieterB, 2002/12/04 18:40 GMT (via web):
Simon,

Did you have any luck in fixing: [[[[#351 zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] (zwiki spidering). I added some comments which might be useful to you.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 18:42 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (weigert) writes:
> A newbie question (but from one with long history in TWiki)... is there
> a roadmap that describes the strategy regarding further ZWiki development?

No, I don't think there is. My basic vision has been simplicity, usability, pages as universal building blocks, leveraging the power of zope, cf BigThemesForZwiki?. Within that, I do whatever I have free time for or can get paid for or can get others to do.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 18:46 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (PieterB) writes:
> RFC: How about creating a link from UserOptions? to some subscription
> page and vica versa. Or mentioning the pages subscribed to at the
> UserOptions? page.

I used to have a wishlist item for this.. I think it's a good idea.


> Why doesn't subscribeform have a WikiName like SubscribeForm??

It's not a wiki page, it's one of the forms which are available on any wiki page, like editform. I think it's clearer not to give these wikinames.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 18:48 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (WimBekker) writes:
> problems are gone. I only don't understand why after transfering the
> ZWiki, the new server looks into the recycle_bin.

Perhaps they got cataloged somehow. After rebuilding a catalog with find I clear out the recycle_bin entries, or I empty the recycle bin beforehand.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 18:53 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (PieterB) writes:
> Did you have any luck in fixing: [[[[#351 zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] (zwiki spidering). I added some
> comments which might be useful to you.

They will be, thanks very much. On the todo list.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 19:02 GMT (via mail):
TestPage id's starting with capital letter

Dean - this is just a consequence of the current canonicalIdFrom algorithm, for generating an id for a freeform name. See the docstring for more, but the rule is basically "convert it to a wikiname, or as near as we can get".

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 19:12 GMT (via mail):
ZwikiIssueTracker

zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> * Anyone up for a ZwikiIssueTracker ?

FYI I am about to.. I'm almost sure.. rename the current ZwikiIssueTracker page to the generic IssueTracker, so ZwikiIssueTracker will be freed up for discussion of the implementation. Maybe ZwikiIssueTracker should be renamed there. Then we can have a discussion section there or spawn off the Discussion page.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 19:18 GMT (via mail):
Having troubles with the standard_error_message page

zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> Whenever a user goes to a page that doesn't exist, and the
> standard_error_message page pops up to let them create the page, it
> doesn't seem to recognise a user that's logged in.
>
> Does anyone know if this is normal, and/or have any suggestions of a
> workaround if it is?

Sorry, I don't know about this. Have it print REQUEST so you can see what's going on. Keep in mind browsers sometimes don't present the full authentication credentials unless they have to.

Dean Goodmanson, 2002/12/04 19:41 GMT (via mail):
ZwikiIssueTracker

Renaming the ZWikiTracker? to IssueTracker? YAY!!!!

Please note my comments in the current page regarding other non-portables entries.

Willing to see how much traffic is necesary.

What's a good rule of thumb for reposting questions or RFC's? 1 week, 2? Certainly when they get bumped off the current GeneralDiscussion page.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/04 20:05 GMT (via web):
ExternalEditor in Mozilla

Don't delete the safety belt lines.

Your efforts in this endeavor are appreciated.

I wouldn't suggest an WYSIWYG HTML editor.


>> The advantage of having a WYSIWYG editor is obvious

Yes, but horribly restrictive. Pages produced by WYSIWYG editors tend to be riddled with junk, unreadable as plain text, and scramble the formatting of existing plain text.
If you decide to use one of these with a Wiki, you need to enforce the "adhere to the existing formatting style of the page" rules, or use HTML in the majority of your site. Also watch out for SGML complaints, like dtml tags, etc.

I prefer to use an HTML enabling text editor which has macro's and helpers for adding/editing HTML codes in plain text.

HTML editors in a site like Squishdot (not a feature) and from the ZMI make the most sense to me. Hmm...associating different editors for different contexts...guess that's a feature request for Casey.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/05 04:29 GMT (via web):
UserOptions? and Subscriptions RFC follow-up, tracker updates *

Makes sense to me. Added #383 UserOptions and subscibeform functionality need better association

(Also think #350 mail-out's from tracker pages to include issue title and #276 tracker issues getting wrong page_type are fixed, and added [mailout_policy for comments changed from 0.11.0]?

Looking forward to elaboration on [support embedded python]?
I realllly like the idea of Python promoted to a defacto WikiWeb? scripting language ;-) But

I see I missed UserOptionsDiscussion on the top-billing for the DiscussionsTrail? listed at the top of this page. Guess it should be added, and these posts moved to there.

[Add reStructuredText document type?]? may be getting more attention come Zope 2.7 and RestructuredText integration. [support emacswiki markup]? may also fall into the category of "alternate markup" and migration helpers.

[performance: try some tricks with http last-modification]? :-) Speed, I'm surprised at how many people care... (Speed issues might be a category to wrap things up in, though.)

[wishlist: edit preview ?]? - Implementation suggestions welcome, this one is important in my arena, especially when a new page will send a mail-out.

WikiName Woops, this would be associated with my [Fuzzy links not comprehensive for SubWiki and their RemoteWikiLinks]? issues, and may further cloud the issue, and slow down pages: [Pages that include a lot of fuzzy links render slowly]?

...and I guess it goes without saying that I'm looking forward to the refactoring of ZwikiIssueTracker. ;-)

...looks like I might have hogged the memory for this hour. Better post now. Sorry if redundant!

Hope that's what you were asking for.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/05 04:42 GMT (via web):
plural pages

Brackets make a great way to plural a page name: ZWikis everwhere, rejoice!

SimonMichael, 2002/12/05 17:18 GMT (via web):
I updated the TestPage Maintainers description a little, comments welcome. I'm hoping this badge will cause a good effect on the whole wiki.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/05 19:02 GMT (via web):
A new testing product from Shane Hathaway is always good news. To be investigated.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/05 19:07 GMT (via web):
Oops! Forgive me Stefan H. Holek. It's still good news. :)

SimonMichael, 2002/12/05 23:28 GMT (via web):
I now realize ZwikiRoadmap was using roadmap in the sense of future zwiki development plans, not the wiki sense of RoadMaps. Still, I think the new name is better.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/05 23:33 GMT (via web):
I've changed the "with heading" checkbox to "with heading and mail-out", to play with behaviour #382 mailout_policy for comments changed from 0.11.0 gives us. See what you think about it.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/05 23:50 GMT (via web):
Justin - you didn't say which of ZwikiAdministrationGuide? or the old ZwikiAdminGuide, or something else, you preferred. Nice work on that page by the way. I'd suggest removing the "guidelines by simon michael" heading, that seems unnecessary. If I say this guide is not structured quite the way I would do it, that's no criticism - I like the page and think it's valuable. I think we need more GuidePages.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/06 00:02 GMT (via web):
That first "to" should have been "or".

Also, I expect y'all saw my cleanup of the installation pages (InstallationNotes?). The heinous ZwikiInstallationOnZope is no more. :) I'll assume silence means "well done SM, excellent job, how do you do it, etc.."

SimonMichael, 2002/12/06 00:04 GMT (via web):
Or maybe it is the way I'd structure it, who knows. I'm just a little confused about what docs will belong where. Keep going!

TheCrowd?, 2002/12/06 00:38 GMT (via web):
TestPage Maintainer of the Year goes to

SimonMichael !!!!!

And the crowd shakes and raves like Muppets on uppers!!!

Justin Clift, 2002/12/06 01:38 GMT (via mail):
SimonMichael wrote:
> Justin - you didn't say which of ZwikiAdministrationGuide? to the old
> ZwikiAdminGuide, or something else, you preferred.

Hi Simon,

I'd 100% prefer it to be called ZwikiAdminGuide?, as it's easy to type and remember. :)

> Nice work on that page by the way. I'd suggest removing the "guidelines by simon michael" > heading, that seems unnecessary.

Feel free to change it. That's the whole point of Wiki isn't it, being able to improve stuff? :)

> If I say this guide is not structured quite the way I would
> do it, that's no criticism - I like the page and think it's valuable.

Again, feel free to change it.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


> I think we need more GuidePages.

Justin Clift, 2002/12/06 01:46 GMT (via mail):
SimonMichael wrote:
> That first "to" should have been "or".
>
> Also, I expect y'all saw my cleanup of the installation pages
> (InstallationNotes?).
> The heinous ZwikiInstallationOnZope is no more. :)

Yep, noticed that.

So, instead of leaving one page which can cover present and future issues with zope, you decided to remove that one central page and instead add a separate note (for Zope 2.6.0 in this case) to each and every affected Release Note? So, you'll be adding new notes to all of them the next time there is a known problem with Zope as well?

Um, excuse me if I say thats f*****g stupid.

Not happy.

+ Justin Clift


> I'll assume silence means "well done SM, excellent job, how do you do it,
> etc.."
>

-- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/06 07:40 GMT (via web):
ZwikiDataTable? -> ZwikiRecordBook

Renamed, inspired by lookup : "compilation of the known facts regarding something or someone" , and lack of a better suggestion. ;-)

Justin: Why so f*****g moody lately?? Would you mind adding a CR between the
and your sig, or switch to a new Grandpa quote?

Justin Clift, 2002/12/06 07:51 GMT (via mail):
ZwikiDataTable? -> ZwikiRecordBook

DeanGoodmanson wrote:
> Justin: Why so f*****g moody lately??

Sorry.

It's just that Simon had asked about the InstallationOnZope? document a while ago, and it had been explained to him what it was for, and then he goes and:

a) Renamed the ZwikiAdminGuide? document I'd been working on without even the courtesy of asking

b) Went and removed the InstallationOnZope? document, again without asking

Again Sorry, it just really pissed me off. The tenseness of some things around here presently might be affecting me more than I thought.


> Would you mind adding a CR between the
> -- and your sig, or switch to a new Grandpa quote?

--

"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

Like this?

Did that manually, but can probably add a CR to the .signature file if it's what you mean.

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

Justin Clift, 2002/12/06 08:56 GMT (via mail):
added to the subject line?

Hi everyone,

We're having a problem with Zwiki 0.13.0, Zope 2.6.0, Python 2.1.3, in that every time someone sends an email, the page title (or maybe it's the id) keeps being added to the subject line... repetatively.

For example, if someone sends an email with the subject of:

  This is interesting

to the GeneralDiscussion page, then everyone receives an email with the subject as:

  [GeneralDiscussion] This is interesting

No problem there. However, when someone replies, everyone receives and email with the subject as:

  [GeneralDiscussion] [GeneralDiscussion] This is interesting

Not real good. The title/page_id is appended to every email.

Has anyone else come across this? It's a stock install, so I'm wondering what could be causing this.

:-(

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

Justin Clift, 2002/12/06 09:18 GMT (via mail):
added to the subject line?

Hi everyone,

Found a causing factor that triggers this, but not sure why.

We have a mail_subject_prefix property set on the Zwiki folder, and it's set to the sending domain name so that email receipients all know where they are receiving it from.

i.e.

[domain.org]?GeneralDiscussion This is interesting

Whenever this mail_subject_prefix property is set on the folder, we get this continual-subject-adding. When it's not set, things work fine.

Unfortunately is making things pretty unusable either way. :-(

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

Justin Clift wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> We're having a problem with Zwiki 0.13.0, Zope 2.6.0, Python 2.1.3, in
> that every time someone sends an email, the page title (or maybe it's
> the id) keeps being added to the subject line... repetatively.
>
> For example, if someone sends an email with the subject of::
>
> This is interesting
>
> to the GeneralDiscussion page, then everyone receives an email with the
> subject as::
>
> GeneralDiscussion This is interesting
>
> No problem there. However, when someone replies, everyone receives and
> email with the subject as::
>
> GeneralDiscussion GeneralDiscussion This is interesting
>
> Not real good. The title/page_id is appended to every email.
>
> Has anyone else come across this? It's a stock install, so I'm
> wondering what could be causing this.
>
> :-(
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/06 14:38 GMT (via web):
sig filtering

Thanks for the experiment, Justin. It looks like that worked. Thanks for teaching me about the --^R thing.

Sorry to hear things are tense in your realm.

Hopefully the TestPage Maintainer badges will alleviate some of this in the future.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/06 16:08 GMT (via web):
Justin - the square brackets in your prefix are confusing it, it expects those to delineate the page name.

Thank you for putting energy into the installation pages - you're one of the first to put serious effort into the zwiki documentation, other than myself and it's had a valuable impact already. But try to stay calm or this won't be fun.

Sorry you don't agree with my editing procedures. I don't think it makes sense to ask permission for every little change in advance. If I see something that I can clearly improve right now, I do it, and if I'm wrong people will speak up, it'll get discussed and perhaps improved again or reverted. The WikiWikiWeb welcome pages have many more tips on wiki collaboration which you might find interesting.

Your arguments in this case make no sense to me. I think there's far less duplication and what-goes-where confusion than there was. An issue is described in one place - in the tracker. The important ones for installers are highlighted on KnownIssues, which is prominent on InstallationNotes?. Also I mention two current high profile issues right there on the page so they'll know KnownIssues matters. .

If you don't agree with the above, don't flame me - I won't go there. Give it a little more consideration, and/or let's hear what other people think about it.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/06 16:35 GMT (via web):
PS didn't mean to overlook Dean's, Pieter's, Florian's and others' wiki work. Small fixes in many places, refactoring existing pages and collecting thoughts for new projects are also "serious effort". Thanks!

SimonMichael, 2002/12/06 16:48 GMT (via web):
Can I dig myself in deeper..

Yes I think my statement stands, one of the first to put serious effort into the (core) zwiki documentation. For a minute it sounded like I had written "first to put serious effort into the wiki".

Simon Michael, 2002/12/06 23:22 GMT (via mail):
Speed Poll

7-day zodb pack: 306 -> 146 Mb.

zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> 1. What is your database cache size?
>
> 2. How many objects?

Ie target no. of objects in memory per cache ? Was initially about 500 I think, bumped to 1000 a month or two ago, to 8000 a few weeks ago, currently at 4000.

Here's the zwiki.org/joyful.com zodb stats at this moment:

 Total number of objects in the database          39612
 Total number of objects in memory from all caches 5302
 Target number of objects in memory per cache      4000
 Total number of objects in each cache:

 Cache Name     Number of object in memory    Number of ghost objects
 <Connection at 09070eac>    3736                  10501
 <Connection at 0aee30ac>    1566                   1985
 Total                       5302


> 3. How fast does a complicated page take (ZwikiIssueTracker, new RecentChanges?)

On my slow laptop talking to zwiki.org, with the server all warmed up and unstressed, IssueTracker takes about 5s in mozilla, 2-3s in w3m. RecentChanges? (30 pages) takes 2s.


> 4. Brief description of your server.

Zope 2.6 and ZEO running behind apache in a jail on a fast multi-user freebsd server at imeme. Typical size of the main zope process is about 50Mb, but frequently creeps up to hit the 100Mb hard memory limit.

DavidHart?, 2002/12/07 06:40 GMT (via web):
Hi,

I've followed directions at WikiMail and in mailin.py (/etc/aliases entry) to enable mailin comments - no luck.

I've confirmed via Z2.log that curl POST requests are getting to Zope.

mailin.py seems to be silently dropping my messages. what's the best way to debug?

SimonMichael, 2002/12/07 06:44 GMT (via web):
Hi David - see my reply on WikiMailDiscussion. Good luck.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/07 21:10 GMT (via mail):
Zwiki 0.13.1 released

A "bugfix-plus" release, for [[#385 No Zwiki: Add comments to wiki pages permission] No Zwiki: Add comments to wiki pages permission] (missing permissions).

Changes

Download: http://zwiki.org/releases/ZWiki-0.13.1.tgz or http://zope.org/Members/simon/ZWiki/ZWiki-0.13.1.tgz

Regards, -Simon

Simon Michael, 2002/12/08 02:44 GMT (via mail):
Re: [mailin: a page name in the recipient real name is ignored unless the address looks like ...(wiki|tracker|bugs|mailin)@...]

test reply to page with scary name

2002/12/08 12:38 GMT (via web):
v0.13 .. How do I provide the option to change page name? Thanks, -- Kent

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/08 15:23 GMT (via web):
Change page name controls display?

Quick answer: The options at the bottom of the page are only displayed if the user has set their UserOptions? or authenticated.

I have seen cases where those controls don't display even when UserOptions? are set, with a DTML overriden standard_zwiki_footer, but I don't have exact details now.

There's also some Security options that probably need to be turned on.

2002/12/08 16:37 GMT (via web):
MailBoxer?

Has anyone looked at Mailboxer ?

Looking for some kind of mail archiving system that will do threaded discussion archives and similar, but properly (hopefully seamlessly) work in with the Zwiki mailing system.

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

2002/12/08 21:58 GMT (via web):
Change page name controls display?

Thanks,it's working now. Not exactly sure which thing I did changed it :-]
Kent

Justin Clift, 2002/12/09 01:39 GMT (via mail):
Auto-archiving Zwiki email

Hi everyone,

Have been thinking about how to get Zwiki to automatically create archives of Discussion style pages, and do the necessary threading, etc.

Now that Simon has added in the nifty ability to use Subjects in our mail properly (as real Subjects), we seem to have all the correct bits in place... ready and waiting kind of.

Some thoughts about how perhaps we can make auto-archiving work:

  1. Introduce some kind of not-visible-on-webpages marker for archiving software to be able to recognise individual messages.

My best thought thus far is something like this:

<!-- Email start Subject: Subject line goes here Timestamp: 20021209181009 Author: Name of the person goes here -->

This is the kind of stuff that would be needed by an archiving system to be able to automatically process the email, and sort it by author, date, thread, etc.

It's also pretty much the same as the basic info from email headers.

So perhaps we're best off having such a marker being just the From and Subject headers from the email, with a timestamp added by the Zwiki software.

It should be really, really easy to add this for both email and comment input. People doing edits however would need to be careful, but we could probably add validation code in the future to make sure things aren't broken.

  1. Given embedded info like this, an archiving system could create pages that have an index of the threads, and links to individual pages for each message named something like:

GeneralDiscussionArchive20021209181009001?

Pages like this may need to be marked as being email archive pages however, so that things like the method that lists all documents in a site doesn't necessarily list them.

The bit for 1. is easy, but the 2. is of course theoretical.

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/09 06:14 GMT (via web):
FilterIssues Memory Hog?

When visiting FilterIssues today I ran into a couple of what seemed to be restart crashes. One at the top of the hour (expected via cron job) and the other about 10 after.

Finally confirmed and added ExportImportDataLoss? . Thanks, John.

Very intrigued about the recently reported [Going into edit mode shows old content of page]? bug, like to know where others might have seen this.

Justin Clift, 2002/12/09 07:50 GMT (via mail):
Getting the hang of setting up Zwiki

Hi everyone,

Just in case anyone would like to see the newest Zwiki that I've setup, it's was finished only a few hours ago, and is running 0.13.1. Am proud of it, as I feel it's layout is pretty decent and it's very usable. :-)

http://advocacy.postgresql.org/documents

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

-- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

PieterB, 2002/12/09 08:05 GMT (via mail):
Re: Mailboxer - Any good?


> Hi Pieter,
> Someone pointed out Mailboxer to me today, and I was wondering if it
> works in with Zwiki.
> Not sure who to ask, but Dean Goodmanson said you're taking a look at it.

Only had a quick look at it.


> All I'm looking for is something to compliment the existing Zwiki
> mailing mechanism, to automatically archive discussion pages once they
> get too big. Archiving them in organised way, (i.e. grouped by subject
> thread) would be nice, but isn't 100% essential.

I have looked at integrating Zwiki with Mailman 2.1 (www.list.org), but looked quite hard. I used ZwikiFrontEnd? for stripping attachements and posting them to Zope, but didn't do much with archiving the messages. Parts of zwikifrontend might also be usefull for you


> Any idea if Mailboxer can do this, and is therefore worth learning how
> to setup?

I have no idea ;) Unfortuately my wiki-time is rather limited at the moment. I'm hoping to do some wiki'ng during christmas.

Pieter

Justin Clift, 2002/12/09 08:14 GMT (via mail):
Re: Mailboxer - Any good?

PieterB wrote:
> I have looked at integrating Zwiki with Mailman 2.1 (www.list.org), but
> looked quite hard. I used ZwikiFrontEnd? for stripping attachements and
> posting them to Zope, but didn't do much with archiving the messages.

Rats. Am thinking we'll have to start creating our own way of doing it.

:-/


> Parts of zwikifrontend might also be usefull for you

The only problem that I have with zwikifontend is that it seems to only be able to post messages as a predetermined user, and that makes it seem like all of the incoming email messages have come from them. :-(


>>Any idea if Mailboxer can do this, and is therefore worth learning
> how to setup?
>
> I have no idea ;)
> Unfortuately my wiki-time is rather limited at the moment. I'm hoping to
> do some wiki'ng during christmas.

That's ok. Was just hoping that you'd already done all this before and gotten it working.

Oh well.

;-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


> Pieter

-- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

PieterB, 2002/12/09 08:19 GMT (via web):
Justin,

Have a look at my ZWikiFrontEnd? notes on: GeneralDiscussion200208 and my comment on #389 Better handling of attachments needed (mailing attachemnts).

Let's continue the discussion on WikiMailDiscussion.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/09 08:27 GMT (via web):
MicroContent

Could someone please reference me to an example of embedding an entire page's content into another page, with all necesary STX & wikilinking applied..

missing some key ingrediant. FrontPage not quite what I'm looking for, searching is getting me nowhere.

Trying to apply the appropriate wikilink, stxToHtml to a "src" variable with the only affect being to have no output.

in my Catalog I have a last_edit_time, lastEditTime and bobobase_modification_time ... Are all these necesary?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/09 08:30 GMT (via web):
posgresql site

Looks good...What's the diamond in the corner for?

Justin Clift, 2002/12/09 08:38 GMT (via mail):
posgresql site

DeanGoodmanson wrote:
> Looks good...What's the diamond in the corner for?

Um, kind of balances out that top line. :)

It's a very-shrunk-down version of the old PostgreSQL? "elephant" logo, which is still hanging around on some of the sites.

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

Justin Clift, 2002/12/09 08:59 GMT (via mail):
Sourceforge site doesn't have the packages?

Hi guys,

Is it considered worth adding the Zwiki release packages to the File download area for the SourceForge? (SF.net) site? Went to download 0.13.1 earlier on today from the main Zwiki site, but it was down for an extended period. Looked at the SourceForge? site, but no releases were there. Had to do other stuff and download the release from the main Zwiki site when it came back up.

:-/

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

-- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

PieterB, 2002/12/09 11:14 GMT (via web):
Anybody ever used PycURL?? PycURL? is an Python interface to LibCurl?. PycURL? can be used to fetch objects identified by a URL from a Python program, similar to the UrlLib? Python module.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/09 14:36 GMT (via web):
Cleanup? Is that last batch of new pages (German?) legitimate or need removal?

...kinda makes ya want a delete checkbox next to the items in the site contents or RecentChanges?...but suppose the ZMI sort by date works. (Except you then need to clean up the catalog)

SimonMichael, 2002/12/09 17:31 GMT (via web):
Good morning all. I was never sure about those counters that pull a graphic from a remote site (and maybe run some javascript), but this nedstat (on FrontPage) is simple and fun. After the weekend, europe is whupping the ass of north america, and the only part of the map remaining to be lit up is mexico. Come on by, mexicanos y mexicanas..

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/09 17:42 GMT (via web):
Cleanup?

Dean: These german pages have serious names and someone spent a certain time to create them. And they are children of the SandBox. I'd suggest to leave them a msg and delete after two weeks. Btw have you seen these names and emails are russian. I wonder if they belong to the large group of german russians migrated to germany in the last years.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 01:44 GMT (via web):
DTMLCookbook

Thanks for the cleanup and WikiTransclusion pointers, FloK. I reached my DTML exhaustion, tonight I got most of it working, with expected caveats! (I had to real back down the catalog road.... )

Next step: I've got a string which represents a page name, now how to act upon that name as if it were a ZWiki page object?

Now..onto the subject:

The ZWiki code and at this site represents a LOT of types of ZWiki specific leveraging code. I'd like to discuss how to kick of and organize a code recipe repository for fundamental (and obscure) ZWiki snippets. AllDiscussionsTrail? represents my finding different ways to do the same thing, none of which are necesarily polished. I think this is fairly important, as the current codebase is going to get more complicated (see RecentChanges?) and harder to reverse engineer for learning purposes. The RecentChangesCodeExplained? is also something that would be referenced. I thought these would be atomic/primer in nature, with the most complicated rules of thumb being something like BackLinks or name grouping/searching.

2002/12/10 13:34 GMT (via web):
That's a great idea Dean. I hope to expand RC explained also.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 14:47 GMT (via web):
gardening

Was the ThomasWeigert page deleted on purpose?

btw, the [Better handling of attachments needed]? conversation is interesting. Looking forward to the outcome.

2002/12/10 16:06 GMT (via web):
RecycleBin? says deleted by ThomasWeigert, so I'm guessing it's ok.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 16:34 GMT (via mail):
(new)

zwiki@zwiki.org (FlorianKonnertz) writes:
> I want to provide the possibility to translate pages automatically to
> the users native language.

Me too. Florian, could you prototype some links or an option menu to do this, on TestPage or anywhere ? That would be helpful.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 16:38 GMT (via mail):

> When trying to use the CMF migration script I get the follwing traceback:

Responding to this on HowToMigrateACMFWiki.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 16:59 GMT (via mail):
Hi Jordan - I don't know much about this, sorry -

zwiki@zwiki.org (JordanCarswell) writes:
> 1 The connection from Mozilla to the helper app gets dropped. This was
> mentioned as a configuration problem in the External Editor
> documentation.
>
> 2 When the page opens in Composer, this line gets added to the page:
> "Wiki-Safetybelt: 1039021126.77 Type: stxprelinkdtmlhtml Log:". I just
> deleted it, but is there a way to have it not show up at all?

You could comment out the lines where they're added in ZWikiPage.py.


> 3. When publishing the wiki page back to the server, the file name is
> garbled, for example GeneralDiscussion reads as
> "~3432-0-zwiki.org,GeneralDiscussion.html".

Here I'd expect external editor to make filenames a non-issue. Perhaps you're trying it via ftp and webdav as well ?


> Would it be possible to make External Editor, Zwiki, and Mozilla work
> together more seamlessly?

I should think so. It should be possible to edit a wiki page in HTML wysiwyg mode via EE, ftp or webdav with a html editor, when you want to do that. Zwiki looks for html and body tags and discards all but the body when you save. I hope you'll keep going. Maybe you could move this thread to ExternalEditor or ExternalEditor so it will be found later.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 17:07 GMT (via mail):

> Change page name controls display?
>
> Thanks,it's working now. Not exactly sure which thing I did changed it :-] --
> Kent

[Is it possible to rename an existing page ?]? in the FAQ should explain all (if it doesn't please let me know).

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 17:35 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> ...kinda makes ya want a delete checkbox next to the items in the site
> contents or RecentChanges?...but suppose the ZMI sort by date
> works. (Except you then need to clean up the catalog)

You shouldn't.. deleting pages in the ZMI should remove them from the catalog also.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 18:07 GMT (via mail):
ZwikiAdministrationGuide?

zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> Just renamed the ZwikiAdministrationGuide? to "OldAdministrationGuide2002". It

I think that's good. I was thinking about it too, and mulling over WikiWikiWeb's recommendation for non-abbreviated names (can't find it). And, let's delete the ZwikiAdministrationGuide? and ZwikiAdminGuide? pages when the need for placeholders has passed.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 18:07 GMT (via mail):
problems with new mailin.py

Hmm, some things went to GeneralDiscussion that shouldn't. Fixed a mailin bug for tracker issues.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 18:24 GMT (via mail):
Getting the hang of setting up Zwiki

zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> http://advocacy.postgresql.org/documents

I like it a lot! Added to PeopleUsingZwiki.

I'm pretty sure you don't need to escape wikinames inside structured text hyperlinks. I removed one of the !'s on the front page and it seems fine.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 18:25 GMT (via mail):
Sourceforge site doesn't have the packages?

zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> Is it considered worth adding the Zwiki release packages to the File
> download area for the SourceForge? (SF.net) site? Went to download

You can always download releases from zope.org. I felt zope.org and zwiki.org was enough, and I don't like sourceforge's ui, so I just use it for cvs. Perhaps it needs a better page pointing to the other two sites ?

Justin Clift, 2002/12/10 18:56 GMT (via mail):
Sourceforge site doesn't have the packages?

Simon Michael wrote:
> zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
>
>>Is it considered worth adding the Zwiki release packages to the
>
> File
>
>>download area for the SourceForge? (SF.net) site? Went to download
>
>
> You can always download releases from zope.org. I felt zope.org and
> zwiki.org was enough, and I don't like sourceforge's ui, so I just use it
> for cvs. Perhaps it needs a better page pointing to the other two sites ?

Um, I'd forgotten to check Zope.org, and also forgot to check the zwiki.sf.net page. Just went straight to the www.sf.net/projects/zwiki page. Oops. My mistake.

;-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

2002/12/10 19:03 GMT (via web):
SiteReliability update

We're having another spate of zope memory hangs and python segfaults right now. Not google or any easily identifiable bot, all bots being disallowed via robots.txt right now. I am watching the logs for insight. Eg when I see it hung due to memory error, I check the last requests in Z2.log. Wish I could say I'm seeing some pattern, but not yet.

By the way, did anyone track the python freebsd bug to it's home lair ? I've been sort of hoping there's a bug page at python.org or freebsd.org that will tell me exactly what it's all about. Or does it only bite us zope folk ?

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/10 19:07 GMT (via web):
DTMLCookbook

Excellent! Good idea to start this page, Dean. - Let me see what i can do for it tomorrow.

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/10 19:12 GMT (via web):
Discussion subject

If I want to reply to two or more different threads ie here on GeneralDiscussion shall i write a comment for each, so the subject can remain originally the same, or pack all in one msg? My first thought is to do the first way, so the threads can be followed easier resp. parsed lateron automatically for the subjects. What do you think? Btw i'd like better to have the subject emphasized automatically.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 19:15 GMT (via web):
DTMLCookbook

Recipe stuff launched as DTMLCookbook.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/10 19:28 GMT (via web):
Discussion subject

Whatever you think best Florian. If I'm replying in gnus I'll sometimes group replies in a larger message, especially if they're related. I sometimes feel I'm slipping into chat mode and that some people may find the many small mails annoying, though noone has said so yet.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/10 19:34 GMT (via web):
Discussion subject

Oh - did you see the trick for setting the subject from web comments ? WikiMailDiscussion has details, basically do this:

 **subject**

 comment
 body

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/10 19:14 GMT (via web):
I am frustrated about the bad accessiblity of ZwikiDotOrg?. Yesterday i got three different errors! :-( For detail see NooWiki:ZwikiDotOrg

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 20:06 GMT (via mail):
SiteReliability

zwiki@zwiki.org (FlorianKonnertz) writes:
> I am frustrated about the bad accessiblity of ZwikiDotOrg?. Yesterday i
> got three different errors! :-( For detail see NooWiki:ZwikiDotOrg

I am too. You may also want to check http://zwiki.org/IssueNo0232 (frequent errors while using zwiki.org), which is the best overview of things that may be going wrong. I checked your page. (too BIG title font! Nice Santa! :) The Client Disconnected is a new one, added to the list.

I think we need to link this issue, or a better warning/explanation, somewhere prominent just now. Added to the quote, and this isn't quite enough since default "simple" viewers won't see it.

Meta note: where is the home for discussion of this topic.. could be SiteReliability, issue 232, GeneralDiscussion.. I'm thinking GD, and possibly 232, would be best.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/10 22:11 GMT (via web):
I moved that SiteReliability thread here to GeneralDiscussion.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/10 22:12 GMT (via web):
And I can't tell why any more.. brain frazzled. Later all.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/11 04:25 GMT (via web):
Link notatation RFC

A. Before I submit a wishlist issue, I'd like to throw out the current WishList? page item for discussion: Color or mark external links to distinguish them from Wiki links ?

I'm fickle on this one. Extra decorations are annoying. (see next issue) Link titles pop-up too late. Alternate font is somewhat tolerable but not CSS friendly. double underscore? I would imaging implementation is a bear. What's external?? Anything protocol://NOT.NUMB.ERS and has the dots might work for an intranet. I want a warning, not blocking which can be handled in it's own way. Current mode is verbosity and plain URL posting, which is OK...but as more fuzzy links get used. (If your a stickler for terminology, I apologize. I have to work harder than I'd like at 10pm to express an idea while writing well.)

B. Considering replacing ? with _, but don't really want to impede that part of the Wiki spirit. Could that be a property, settable via URL, DTML, cookie? (that order of importance) Ideally I'd like the /print pretty printing functionality to eat the ?'s.

David Hart, 2002/12/11 04:51 GMT (via mail):
Link notatation RFC

I like these ideas. Also, could the anchor tag be given a class, so the style of this string can be set by CSS?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/11 06:35 GMT (via web):
Inclusion Puzzler aka DTMLCookbook Recipe needed

Need to convert a string representing a page id to a page object: DeanGSandBox?

Extra thanks if you can supply a test for if that page exists or not...

(Sorry for the new page spam...)

2002/12/11 06:56 GMT (via web):
Inclusion Puzzler

This should do it:

 <dtml-let page="aq_parent[pageid]">

if you had a page name instead, you'd need something like:

 <dtml-let page="pageWithName(pagename)"> 

Justin Clift, 2002/12/11 07:58 GMT (via mail):
Link notatation RFC

DeanGoodmanson wrote:
> B. Considering replacing ? with _, but don't really want to impede that
> part of the Wiki spirit. Could that be a property, settable via URL, DTML,
> cookie? (that order of importance) Ideally I'd like the /print pretty printing
> functionality to eat the ?'s.

Customisable in some way could give some niceties... image a tiny graphic with the word "CREATE" on it? That could get multi-lingual fast too.

Anyway, just thoughts...

:)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/11 09:27 GMT (via web):
Link notatation RFC

Hi Dean! I've been thinking about the topic the last days too. It's funny you come up with this right now. I had to get an overview about the topic first, so did some research and noted it on WikiLinkingIssues. I add your suggestions there, ok? - And as i have much to say about it, i will comment there. I'd suggest to discuss further there as i haven't found another page about general linking issues. Of course i appreciate your comments about the page's structure, name and content.

Hi Justin. I copied your suggestions to WikiLinkingIssues too, ok!?

SimonMichael, 2002/12/11 20:34 GMT (via web):
I just removed a 10 minute old webdav lock (by None) on GeneralDiscussion. Hopefully it wasn't a real person working with external editor.

PieterB, 2002/12/12 13:49 GMT (via mail):
Patching python21 for Zope/Zwiki (GeneralDiscussion) (fwd)

Hello BSD-portmaintainer of python21,

I emailed the previous maintainer of Python (tg@freebsd) about a month ago, but didn't get any response. We (zwiki-community) had some problems with the default thread stack size of Pyhon21 when using Python21, Zope (2.5 or 2.6 or CVS) and the wiki-product Zwiki. Other Zope/Python programs under FreeBSD? might have the same problems.

More information about the problem can be found at:

Can you increase the default thread stack size to <<17 or <<20 as described on http://zwiki.org/PatchPython213

Thanks in advance, Regards,

PieterB cc ZWikiCommunity?, SimonMicheal?

----- Forwarded message (env-from pieterb) -----

Subject: Patching python21 for Zope/Zwiki (GeneralDiscussion) To: tg AT FreeBSD? DOT org Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 00:34:15 +0100 (CET) cc: zwiki AT zwiki DOT org, simon AT joyful DOT com

Dear BSD port maintainer,

Could you please apply the patches to the FreeBSD? port of python21 as listed on the following URL's:

This will fix problems with Zope (and Zwiki) for quite a lot of people using FreeBSD?.

Thanks in advance,

PieterB cc ZWikiCommunity?, SimonMicheal?

----- End of forwarded message (env-from pieterb) -----

PieterB, 2002/12/12 14:28 GMT (via web):
I tried to create a new page ValidHTML from a trackerissue by following the link to the new pagename (ValidHTML). The page is automatically of type "tracker issue" which isn't what I intended. Now it seems adding new issues is broken.

Simon, help. HELP ;)

Simon, can you also add a doctype and charset to the default template. In that way it is easy to check if pages are valid HTML by using http://validator.w3.org. Might even cool to provide a validate in the default template

-- PieterB

SimonMichael, 2002/12/12 16:10 GMT (via web):
Example pages

Re SubWikiExampleTwo - hi Florian, what do you think of this: "Example pages work best when they are very down-to-earth descriptions of an actual working installation." Eg a description of your NooWiki:FloWiki would make a great example (if it's different from the existing examples and instructive). Whereas a page like this one might be called SubWikiScenarioTwo?.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/12 16:31 GMT (via web):
Pieter - thanks for the validation tip, added these to the tracker.

PieterB, 2002/12/12 16:44 GMT (via web):
Another way to fix TheRobotProblem might be to use ModThrottle:

This Apache module is intended to reduce the load on your server & bandwidth generated by popular virtual hosts, directories, locations, or users according to supported polices (see below) that decide when to delay or refuse requests. Also mod_throttle can track and throttle incoming connections by IP address or by authenticated remote user. )

Zope scout: Zope 2.6.1b2 is (almost?) out. Should check if: http://collector.zope.org/Zope/432 (STX: *code* and **code** render differently from _code_) is fixed (See [[#270 with zope 2.6.0, dtml pages like UserOptions, RecentChanges, SearchPage are broken] with zope 2.6.0, dtml pages like UserOptions?, RecentChanges?, SearchPage? are broken]: with zope 2.6.0, dtml pages like UserOptions?, RecentChanges?, SearchPage? are broken )

Simon: thanks for make zwiki more stable!!!

SimonMichael, 2002/12/12 16:46 GMT (via web):
Reorganized the ZwikiFAQ? again - I think we have a winner this time. The old faq is still there if you want to compare.

I enjoyed finding the OldAdministrationGuide2002's customization instructions. It's fun to see some longer documents by a different author - if you're tempted to try it, jump in. Justin, an addendum for that section: as an alternative to standard_wiki_header/standard_wiki_footer, you can use a wikipage page template (it looks for this first).

PieterB, 2002/12/12 20:36 GMT (via web):
Anybody know where the ZwikiRoadMap? went? (last edit by anonymous Dec. 12, 2002 6:15 pm). Is this WikiVandalismDiscussion?

SimonMichael, 2002/12/12 23:00 GMT (via web):
I thought that page just got created. Delete it ?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/13 01:57 GMT (via web):
ZwikiRoadMap? renamed ZwikiAndProjectManagement

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/13 02:12 GMT (via web):

Received a compliment on the new RecentChanges? today. Grabbed the code, stuck it on a page till I could role it out everywhere, but it was found and appreciated.

2002/12/13 16:17 GMT (via web):
I'm semi interested in this new Zope Product/Udpdate for hosting behind IIS. http://www.zope.org/Members/hiperlogica/ASP404

Does ZWiki ever use RESPONSE.write()

SimonMichael, 2002/12/13 17:26 GMT (via web):
For those who missed it, there has been some progress with [[[#226 on freebsd, python/zope may crash repeatably when browsing diffs or saving certain pages] on FreeBSD?, python may crash repeatably when viewing or saving certain wiki pages] on FreeBSD?, python may crash repeatably when viewing or saving certain wiki pages] and [[[[#351 zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)] zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)]. The site has been stable for over a day now (no proxy errors, yay). The maximum number of threads was reduced from 4 to 2, to stay within memory quota, so you might be seeing more variation in response time.. let me know.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/13 17:36 GMT (via web):
Woohoo! I posted just in time. The settings were not quite conservative enough and it had inched up over quota, and died. Off we go again.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/13 19:17 GMT (via web):
UserOptions? Deleted

UserOptions? has been mucked with. Needs a proper restore. 3 cheers for Delete mail-outs.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/13 20:33 GMT (via mail):
autolance

Oliver Bleutgen writes on zope:
> In addition, search for ChrisD?'s AutoLance? product on zope.org, which
> restarts zope if it's memory usage goes over a configurable threshold.
>
> It's a band-aid solution, but it works quite well.

PieterB, 2002/12/14 15:58 GMT (via web):
Ok, did some wiki work.

Created ZwikiBestPractices? as addendum to #23 page needed: overview of WaysToOrganizeAWiki (page needed: overview of WaysToOrganizeAWiki?).

Created ZopeIssues? (list of zope issues related to Zwiki)

PieterB, 2002/12/14 16:21 GMT (via web):
Should we delete: FreeZopeWiki?? It's some copy of FrontPage?

I think its a good idea to create a ZwikiGardeningPolicy? to describe the policies on wiki gardening...

I'm going on a holiday. Back before christmas.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/14 16:29 GMT (via mail):
Re: zwiki edit by simple user

Thanks for the comments Nicolas, Paul.

Whatever else happens, I think we could do with some STX-(and the others)-friendly wysiwyg editors. This should remove the need to learn a wiki's text formatting rules. Python+tkinter/wxwindows (via external editor), mozilla (built in to the browser) or javascript (cross-browser ?) sound like good ways to build it (or all three).

Sorry you got unfriendly non-subscriber bounces when you cc'd zwiki@zwiki.org - subscribe to any page there and you'll be able to mail in (this is a cheap spam block and may improve soon). I quoted you below.

Cheers, -Simon

Paul Everitt <paul@eurozope.org> writes:
> I've spent some time thinking about this kind of approach. I was actually
> going to go a step farther: send an RDF representation of the entire
> Wiki's metadata to Mozilla, then combine it with the Bitflux editor for
> unified viewing/editing. Imagine writing on you wiki while
> offline...yummy.
>
> The problem, though, is that once you leave STX for HTML, then everyone
> in the wiki will need to leave STX and use HTML. Mozilla's editing widget
> has some capability for plain-text versions of HTML, but I don't think we
> can count on it being STX-friendly.
>
> There are some possible solutions to this, but they are problematic.
>
> --Paul
>
> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote:
>> Dear Simon and all zwikis friends,
>> Of all the wikis (like phpwiki, cowiki, zwiki, ...), zwiki is the one I
>> prefer.
>> I like its wealth of features (even if I would like to see some for
>> these other wikis included)
>> One point I would suggest is the following : that the wiki pages be
>> editable with the help of a tool like composite (see
>> http://composite.mozdev.org) i mozilla that offers a through the web GUI
>> with usual buttons like bold, italic, style ... that most users are
>> looking for as they appears in many wordprocessor and spreadshseet.
>> I do prefer structured text .. but recognize that some people do not.
>> Having a wiki editable with such tools would be a killing app. IMHO
>> I suppose that as zwiki accepts already html and composite is an
>> existing html editor, the work of these 2 tools together is not too
>> difficult (even if I am not capable of doing the integration myself now)
>> THanks?,
>> Nicolas

SimonMichael, 2002/12/14 16:35 GMT (via web):
Thanks Pieter! Happy holiday, and I'll respond when I have more time.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/14 16:43 GMT (via web):
I'll just say I like the practices and policy pages. I've been thinking about similar names for a while - SitePractices?, BestPractices, GoodPractice? (used on WikiWikiWeb ?), WikiPatterns?, SitePolicies?.. with a mind to what works on this wiki, and also as a possible default for others. Will these things fit on one page or several, etc. I like the gardening metaphor and think it's useful.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/14 17:18 GMT (via web):
See also WikiConventions.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/14 17:19 GMT (via web):
GeneralDiscussion broke just now due to some weird poskey error (#403 GeneralDiscussion has become disabled somehow (PosKeyError)). Fixed it by deleting and re-creating.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/14 17:21 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (PieterB) writes:
> Created ZopeIssues? (list of zope issues related to Zwiki)

This is ZwikiInstallationOnZope becoming better (it links to the issue pages) but let's put these right on KnownIssues. One more useful section would be Python issues. And I'll move some of the old zwiki releases there to an oldknownissues page. What do you say ?

Simon Michael, 2002/12/14 17:11 GMT (via mail):
I really appreciate everyone who is gathering up scattered discussions and corralling the bug reports. Christmas is approaching very fast but perhaps there's time to make some good headway on these.

zwiki@zwiki.org (PieterB) writes:
> - frequent error code 10 or
> 11 zope crashes

This one goes under Python and maybe should reference the discussion on [[[#226 on freebsd, python/zope may crash repeatably when browsing diffs or saving certain pages] on FreeBSD?, python may crash repeatably when viewing or saving certain wiki pages] on FreeBSD?, python may crash repeatably when viewing or saving certain wiki pages].


> - TypeError? type error:
> Splitter() got an unexpected keyword argument encoding when reindexing
> (Simon, can this issue be closed?)

Do you mean the zope issue ? Yes, I'd say so. Looks like Andreas or someone at ZC would have to do it.

If we want to list known zwiki-relevant zope issues by zope version, this would be zope 2.5.0 (that could become too complicated & too much work though).


> !- STX: *code* and **code**
> render differently from _code_

I posted a final request for this on one of the -dev lists. No one seems interested and I have a workaround for zwiki. This introduces another variance between zope & zwiki's stx so ideally it would get fixed or explained why it should stay as is, but I'm moving on.

PieterB, 2002/12/14 17:40 GMT (via web):
Simon, feel free whatever you would like with the ZopeIssues?. It would be great if all Zope issues concerning Zwiki are solved in the 2.6.1 final release.

Yes, I meant closing the ZopeIssue:400

BTW I didn't have any response on my request to provide the PatchPython213 in the BSD-ports yet concerning the Python issue on FreeBSD?.

Mmh, didn't receive mailout from your previous post (yet?)

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/14 17:47 GMT (via web):
ZopeIssues?, STX Should Issue0386 ([List formatting appears broken]?) also be added to the ZopeIssues? list? (And where should ZopeIssues? be parented.)

The STX discussion is exciting. I haven't seen any word on a WYSIWYG RestructuredText editor, but if I don't hear back I'll ask on that list. Perhaps we should make a Badge "ZopeIssue" or add a category Zwiki:Zope to the tracker.

pbiemond, 2002/12/14 21:43 GMT (via mail):
Pieter Biemond is out of the office until Dec22

I will be out of the office starting 14-12-2002 and will not return until 22-12-2002.

Ik ben tot en met 22 december op vakantie. I'm on a holiday until December 22nd.

2002/12/15 18:39 GMT (via web):
From JordanCarswell (UserOptions? is currently MIA)

Simon, is it possible to set up Zwiki so that when you create a new wiki web from the ZMI, you could select from several different skin options? Perhaps you can already do this, but currently I have just been altering the default skin folder. I would like to be able to have several folders under skins that I could choose from when creating a new wiki web, similair to themes in Gnome or Mozilla, et al.

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/16 11:41 GMT (via web):
Development doc

My current question: How does the map function work? Where can i change the output? - When i have a look at it, i could document the code a little bit. - Where is currently the best starting place to do so? Do we need a special ZwikiCodeDoc? page or did i miss to find it?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/16 20:37 GMT (via web):
ZwikiGardening?

Some thoughts.

A. I like the idea of documenting best practics.

B. I think it's a good idea for Wiki communities to communicate their site norms & policies: discussion/doctype, mail policies, badges, etc. Building a "form letter" type page distributed with a site for an admin to "fill out" (and get familiarized with the issues) might be helpful. Where is the central page for gardening issues of this particular site?

--------- In the world of this site gardening:

I plopped a 0.13.1 UserOptions? page back up.

The badge page need to be updated on either a list+description page, and/or the search page.

The RFC notation seems to be a good way to get attention and state your point, but it somewhat implies that action will be taken. Would someone clarify? My RFC's have been prmiarily "Request for Discussion"

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/17 14:33 GMT (via web):
Hi developers, please have a look on ZwikiCodeDoc? and drop some hints on my questions. Some of them are personal and i need help.

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/17 15:44 GMT (via web):
Has anybody experience with HappyDoc? or PythonDoc?? Or are there any other doc tools? docutils?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/17 17:01 GMT (via web):
FreeformLinks

FreeformLinks created. Corrections, etc. appreciated.

FloK: DocUtils has an active mailing list. What are you trying to accomplish?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/17 19:52 GMT (via web):
WikiName in pre blocks

I was baffled that the !'s got eaten in a STX <pre> section on the WikiName page. Clarification and workaround details appreciated.

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/18 10:53 GMT (via web):
Is there a folder to put these off-topic content pages, like BegabtenGruppe in? I reparented them to SandBox, but i imagine a place where they can stay longer and safer then in SandBox. What do you think?

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/18 16:15 GMT (via web):
Footer

I'd like to suggest making the change all links switch checked by default. - Is it ever used unchecked? - BTW, is there a page for footer issues? StandardWikiFooter??

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/18 19:49 GMT (via web):
STX <pre> whine

I am very appreciated that Links don't get applied to to the body of a <pre> tag. Not sure one the comprehensiveness of this..

I am surprised that STX gets applied.

Anyway around this? (Other that turn off STX for that page. ;-/)

I've been thinking: "For code, just put a pre tag around it"

I can't really just use the double quote STX pre-stuff, as then we'de have to indent everything. :-(

Justin Clift, 2002/12/18 20:49 GMT (via mail):
SimonMichael wrote:
> I enjoyed finding the OldAdministrationGuide2002's customization instructions. It's
> fun to see some longer documents by a different author - if you're tempted to
> try it, jump in. Justin, an addendum for that section: as an alternative to
> standard_wiki_header/standard_wiki_footer, you can use a wikipage page
> template (it looks for this first).

Hi guys,

Am almost totally out of time here at the moment, haven't even been able to look at Zwiki nor Zope related stuff for a while, not sure when I will again. :-(

People wanting to add stuff to the OldAdministrationGuide2002 are of course welcome, as it's convenient to find stuff all in one place and will make it easy to have "Administration Guide" (or similar concept) be part of the tarball in the future.

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/19 11:38 GMT (via web):
Internationalisation

Some general wiki help and info pages in german have been created recently. I reparented them from the SandBox to TranslatedPages, ok? - It might be useful to have a WikiBadge for GermanPages?. - I wonder if there are any resources and collections for translated wiki pages on other wikis, like our i18n, so i dropped a note to SunirShah on MeatballWiki? (and on MeatballWiki:WhatIsGlobalization.

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/19 14:25 GMT (via web):
Is this issue intentional? -> In plaintext mode created pages < gets rendered as &lt; disabled - For what is it good for?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/19 20:35 GMT (via web):
doc starters

I'm pressed for time lately. When I encounter a good intention I have been outlining it. See: RemoteWikiLinks DTMLCookbook

If this is inappropriate please note it so. This is intended as an invitation to refactor and fill in the blanks, update, etc.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 21:16 GMT (via mail):
happy holidays

Things have been nuts, christmas is coming on.. happy holidays all.

The server has been running smoothly for five days, only very slowly inching up over quota. Pretty good. I restarted it this morning.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 22:10 GMT (via mail):
Re: zwiki edit by simple user

Nicolas Pettiaux <nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be> writes:
>> Whatever else happens, I think we could do with some STX-(and the
>> others)-friendly wysiwyg editors.
>
> I would be ready and happy to try and finance such development

Hi Nicolas,

great, I'm interested in working on it. How simply do you think we could make it happen ? Would you be in a position to (eg) pledge X$ on completion of user stories we agree on ("user can edit stx page in mozilla", "user has buttons for setting stx emphasis", etc..)


>> Python+tkinter/wxwindows (via external editor), mozilla (built in to
>> the browser) or javascript (cross-browser ?) sound like good ways to
>> build it (or all three).
>
> I like the idea to develop the tool first and with priority for use with
> mozilla, in order to encourage people to switch to mozilla.

I listed the standalone tkinter app first because it sounded like an easier first step, but who knows.

Regards, -Simon

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 22:14 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> Should Issue0386 ([List formatting appears broken]?) also be added to the
> ZopeIssues? list? (And where should ZopeIssues? be parented.)

Is this a "high profile" problem ? Maybe..

I think it might be good to gather all of these types of thing on their own TextFormattingSurprises page or similar, and link that.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 22:21 GMT (via mail):

> Simon, is it possible to set up Zwiki so that when you create a new wiki web
> from the ZMI, you could select from several different skin options? Perhaps

Hi Jordan,

yes this has been possible for some time. The Add zwiki web form should list all folders that it finds (a) on the filesystem in ZWiki/content and (b) in /Control_Panel/Products/ZWiki. So just create a folder in one of these places and put initial pages and custom dtml methods or templates implementing your skin.

Or, the CMF approach: create the wiki within a CMF site. Zwiki installs two CMF skins when you register it as a CMF type (zwiki_cmf and zwiki_orig); the former is installed in all your site's skins by default, you'd have to edit the portal_skins properties to select the other.

Does this help ?

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 22:23 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (FlorianKonnertz) writes:
> Is this issue intentional? -> In plaintext mode created pages < gets
> rendered as < disabled - For what is it good for?

It thinks it's disabling some javascript (see Regexps.py, _cleanupText()). Doesn't sound right.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 23:00 GMT (via mail):
Footer


> I'd like to suggest making the change all links switch checked by
> default. - Is it ever used unchecked?

Yes, sometimes I use it and don't want to change links. I leave it off by default because it feels like a big dangerous operation affecting many pages and potentially causing trouble.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 23:05 GMT (via mail):
Internationalisation

zwiki@zwiki.org (FlorianKonnertz) writes:
> Some general wiki help and info pages in german have been created
> recently. I reparented them from the SandBox to
> TranslatedPages, ok? - It might

Great - I'm happy about this experiment, I hope that person or someone bilingual speaking for them will introduce themselves at some point so we can all coordinate.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 23:18 GMT (via mail):
Re: Serious security issue with pagename/delete

*Sorry for these duplicates. I tried to figure out why this wouldn't go to GeneralDiscussion.*

PieterB <pieterb@gewis.nl> writes:
> I was able to fix my problem with a page created on a tracker issue by
> using http://foo.bar/PageName/delete
>
> I was very surprised that it worked, and I think this is a big
> security issue (think robots spidering, think somebody who uses the
> sitemap and simply deletes the whole wiki in a couple of seconds).
>
> It might be a very good idea to make a page simaler to the "create
> page/search page" functionality (using noindex/nofollow) and to dissalow
> anonymous users to delete pages.

Thanks for the alert Pieter. I think the first issue is documentation. Zwiki (and much of zope) has always worked this way, and any zwiki admin publishing up an anonymous-writable wiki needs to be aware of these issues. In short, on a wide open wiki like this one you can mess up a lot of pages in a short time, cause zodb growth, perhaps trigger zope crashes using ab or some other bot. I allude to this in the add zwiki web form, but a clear page explaining this would be nice. When this happens the remedy would be to use zope undo or page history (may not be practical) or restore from backups, after blocking the offending vandal.

Second, yes, it would be great to close down these vulnerabilities more. Eg we'd like to avoid the above repair scenario by automatically detecting vandals and locking them out (ModThrottle).

I actually did something to make anonymous delete & rename a little safer, which is that as well as permission, you must also have some authentication - either a zope login or a zwiki_username cookie. If you were a random bot, that delete wouldn't have worked.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 23:26 GMT (via mail):
mailman list for wikimail

I have a prototype working well; when I get the chance, I'm going to set this up on zwiki.org also. Wikimail without a list will still be supported.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/20 00:28 GMT (via web):
we apologize for any temporal dislocation you may have just experienced..

I fired up Data.fs.old to retrieve the lost GeneralDiscussion subscribers (#411 GeneralDiscussion lost it's subscriber list). GD page subscribers, you were unsubscribed for six days, sorry.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/20 04:05 GMT (via web):
Outstanding questions

RFC: A portion of the top part of a Discussion page (or sub-page) reserved for questions which haven't received an answer?

Reposting is welcome, but I think we probably rely on Simon too much for sweaping responses.

This is more important on sub-Discussions, and may post a better gleaning patch than GD for replanting in a more specific page.

also.. JohnGreenaway - I have some questions for you at your pages. :-)

Archive of GeneralDiscussion 2002 December Part 2

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/20 05:05 GMT (via web):
[List formatting appears broken]?


>> Is this a "high profile" problem ? Maybe..

Not my problem, so not here. ;-) I think there was a zope bug day when I noticed those pages, so wanted to point it out...also wasn't sure want constituted inclusion in that list.

JordanCarswell, 2002/12/20 18:44 GMT (via web):
> yes this has been possible for some time. The Add zwiki web form should list all folders that it finds (a) on the filesystem in ZWiki/content and (b) in /Control_Panel/Products/ZWiki. So just create a folder in one of these places and put initial pages and custom dtml methods or templates implementing your skin.

Simon, that works, but I end up with multiple copies of my page template and other files everytime I create a new wiki web. Is there a current way to enable the ZWiki/skins folder to hold more than just the "default" folder? That is where I would like to be able to place a folder with my template files, images. The advantage is that if I update that one instance of the template, it is reflected on any wiki web where I am using that template. Otherwise I have to go through multiple wiki webs and update the files and any images one by one. Plus if some users have management access to their web, I don't know if I want them being able to accidentally delete the page template or other standard files.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/20 19:34 GMT (via web):
Jordan - it sounds like you want skins kept separate from content like CMF, but also the ability to have site-wide (as in the zope server) skins, not having to replicate them in each CMF site. We'd like to be able to add eg /Control_Panel/Products/ZWiki/somefolders to the CMF skin paths, (and zwiki's non-CMF skin mechanism).

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/20 19:50 GMT (via web):
Transclusion pages refactoring

I copied the complete content from WikiTransclusion to IncludeOrTransclude. Subsequent refactoring coming. Any idea for a better (objective) name for that page. What's the generic term for Inclusion and Transclusion? WikiInclusionAndTransclusion? ? - Too long?

Later: Just WikiTransclusion might be the best, imo. I'll rename it, ok?

JordanCarswell, 2002/12/20 19:58 GMT (via web):
>it sounds like you want skins kept separate from content like CMF, but also the ability to have site-wide (as in the zope server) skins, not having to replicate them in each CMF site.

Simon, exactly. I'm not using CMF, but it would be cool to be able to create a wiki web and under Properties in the ZMI be able to select a skin to use for the site(for example, "default", "modern", et al). Would this be possible? I'm only semi-literate in Python and Zope, but if you could point the way, I would like to play around with the idea.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/21 14:59 GMT (via web):
Transclusion terms..

Alternative names: PageInPage?, PageLet?, PortalView?

FlorianKonnertz, 2002/12/22 17:08 GMT (via web):
I finished refactoring the pages about WikiAcquisition and WikiName. Have a look!

PieterB, 2002/12/23 10:44 GMT (via web):
Hi, I'm back! And I probably have some time left during Christmas to do some Zwiki'ing.

Anybody tried Plone1.0rc1 with Zwiki? I'm thinking of trying to see if Zwiki's mailin can be used for creating Plone news-messages. That would solve our threading-problems very easily. I think of spending some time on ProposalGeneralDiscussionNG and/or ValidHTML as well, so more input on those issues is welcome too.

Another questions: what is the currents status of CMFWiki? (alpha/beta/final). Any known-problems, or should I check the ZwikiIssueTracker? Note: CMFWiki is stable now, See: Zwiki and Plone --PieterB

Happy Xmas,
PieterB

PieterB, 2002/12/23 14:53 GMT (via web):
Mmh, I'm thinking of adding optional StripOGram? support to Zwiki. StripOGram? is ChrisWithers library for converting HTML to Plain Text and stripping specified tags from HTML.

That is: if StripOGram? is installed, all HTML which is sent to a wiki will be converted to safe HTML.

I thought there was another library doing the same thing, but I don't know it's name anymore.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/24 02:48 GMT (via web):
Happy Holidays, Simon

Awhile back I suggested Simon create an Amazon wish list or similar type of "Thank You" opportunity for people benefitting from ZWiki. Today I was reminded when I learned that there's currently a FSF associate membership program: details here .

This kind of thing is outside the realm of DeveloperNotes, which is primarly to help drive the future, not thanking for the past. I wouldn't consider it presumptious if Simon posted some sort of thank you gift list on the site, just as many freeware software developers do.

I'm not sure why ZWiki is GPL...but it may make a nice fireside story sometime.

Merry Christmas!

PieterB, 2002/12/24 11:07 GMT (via web):
Did some ZwikiGardening? at ZopeCvs?, renamed CVs? to VersioningSupport?, created a SubVersion? page, renamed ZWikiUsability? to ZwikiUsability?. Added a comment at the StripOGram? page.

I got my Zope 2.6 CVS up and running again. See ZopeCvs? and ZwikiAndPlone for details.

PieterB, 2002/12/24 11:36 GMT (via web):
There is an open patch at sf.net, see: 629317: Problem when root documents

Might add a dummy-patch and dummy-bug to ask users to use Zwiki instead of using SourceForge?.

PieterB, 2002/12/24 13:48 GMT (via web):
I created a ValidHTML zpt template for Zwiki. You can find it at: http://gewis.nl/~pieterb/zwiki/wikipage.zpt.html

PieterB, 2002/12/24 13:52 GMT (via web):
Hmm.. I think the link to SF, "629317: Problem when root documents" I posted to the general discussion created the following traceback:

Site Error
An error was encountered while publishing this resource. 

KeyError

Sorry, a site error occurred.

Traceback (innermost last):

Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publishmodule Module Products.Localizer, line 58, in newpublish Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish Module Zope, line 171, in zpublisherexceptionhook Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in callobject Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 220, in __call_ Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 232, in _render Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 415, in render_stxprelinkdtmlhtml Module OFS.DTMLDocument, line 131, in __call Module DocumentTemplate.DT_String, line 474, in __call Module DocumentTemplate.DT_Let, line 76, in render Module DocumentTemplate.DT_In, line 705, in renderwob Module DocumentTemplate.DT_Util, line 201, in eval __traceback_info__: id Module , line 2, in f Module AccessControl.DTML, line 32, in guardedgetitem Module AccessControl.ZopeGuards, line 90, in guardedgetitem Module OFS.ObjectManager, line 652, in __getitem KeyError

PieterB, 2002/12/24 13:54 GMT (via web):
Trying to fix the homepage of Zwiki. I hope this works...

PieterB, 2002/12/24 18:28 GMT (via web):
JakobNielsen has made up his famous list of Top Ten Web-design Mistakes of 2002 at http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20021223.html

  1. No Prices
  2. Inflexible Search Engines
  3. Horizontal Scrolling
  4. Fixed Font Size
  5. Blocks of Text
  6. JavaScript in Links
  7. Infrequently Asked Questions in FAQ
  8. Collecting Email Addresses Without a Privacy Policy
  9. URL > 75 Characters
  10. Mailto Links in Unexpected Locations

He also writes about the Growing Importance of Email Integration It's interesting to note that the last three mistakes all relate to email. Despite being the oldest of the main Internet services, email continues to be one of the most important. It's also finally becoming better integrated with the Web, and I expect that this trend will continue (if websites can avoid making those mistakes, that is).

PieterB, 2002/12/24 22:08 GMT (via web):
I created ZwikiAndPlone and several other pages. Time to stop wikiing and enjoy Xmas!

SimonMichael, 2002/12/25 17:17 GMT (via web):
:

  __  __                      
 |  \/  | ___ _ __ _ __ _   _ 
 | |\/| |/ _ \ '__| '__| | | |
 | |  | |  __/ |  | |  | |_| |
 |_|  |_|\___|_|  |_|   \__, |
                        |___/ 
   ____ _          _     _                       _ 
  / ___| |__  _ __(_)___| |_ _ __ ___   __ _ ___| |
 | |   | '_ \| '__| / __| __| '_ ` _ \ / _` / __| |
 | |___| | | | |  | \__ \ |_| | | | | | (_| \__ \_|
  \____|_| |_|_|  |_|___/\__|_| |_| |_|\__,_|___(_)

Chad Miller, 2002/12/26 23:03 GMT (via web):
I'm in the pre-bug-reporting stage: Ward's Wiki doesn't seem to have an idea of headers, so I propose that ZWiki adopt MoinMoin's /^={N} header N ={N}$/ convention. I have a patch for WWML.py that works really well. Is it a good idea to slightly diverge from the strict WWML implementation?

SimonMichael, 2002/12/26 23:10 GMT (via web):
Not lightly done, but I need to defer this release, sorry folks. Heading out the door, will be offline for ten days, see you in the New Year! I wish you all a peaceful and happy one.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/26 23:14 GMT (via web):
Hi Chad, I'm not sure it is, from a maintenance and learning point of view. I'd think about doing a separate "moin moin markup mode" if I were doing it.

Chad Miller, 2002/12/27 14:40 GMT (via web):
Simon: I think that's best. I'll extend the WWML class and send a patch before too long. Thanks!

Cliff, 2002/12/27 18:33 GMT (via web):
I've been using Zwiki for a bit in a knowledge collection exercise (do people think of this as a knowledge base?). I have a couple of probs:

I can't see the standardwiki_header in the ZMI, nor the /misc folder that some things seem to be in. What's up??? I want to do some customizing, putting a link to the top of the project and stuff...

When I select the "...contents" link in the header I get a page that lists eveything ok, but the links don't work because they are rendered with a %20 space in them, whereas the pages get created without the space. What's up???

this is happening at http://fishability.biz/SCHeritage/SCwiki/

2002/12/27 21:23 GMT (via web):

>>Do people think of this as a knowledge base?

I certainly do... Lightweight, but that's part of the appeal. What features of a knowlegebase are you finding missing?


>> standard_wiki_header does't exist anymore, which should make upgrades easier. To override you need to create a dtml-method that contains th same code as the file in skins/default/standard_zwiki_header(or footer).dtml called "standard_zwiki_header"

I'm curious what you want to modify? I would like more options overridable, but not sure which are best. Nice choice for a logo. The "full" mode failed for me... so I couldn't test your contents issue. URL/TestPage/map worked ok, though..

--- DeanG

Cliff, 2002/12/27 22:41 GMT (via web):
Knowledge base: maybe some way of adding additional keywords to find a page - but that's not a big deal if you can include them in the text somehow. I really like how eveything can be linked, and search works fine for me so far, though I am worried as the page count climbs that I will start getting spurious pages. I don't have any probs so far other than technical...

Customization: I want to be able to add a link to the top of this project - the wiki is not the top, only one of the components. Someone mentioned changing CSS, though I certainly haven't got much experience with them, I see how it would be nice to change the look of the site.

I'll reload Zwiki I guess - had some probs recently with the power going out on the island, and me w/o a UPS...

Cliff, 2002/12/28 10:23 GMT (via web):
Fixed the datetime problem that was cropping up in my zwiki pages cause I reloaded my zope after the power went down for an hour and corrupted a few things. Still have to resolve the bad links thing in my "Contents" page...

I also upgraded to zwiki 12.0, which I thought I was running. 13 doesn't seem to work for me, dying on a funny error- missing method something like WWNA?? (sorry I didn't record it, just reverted).

Thanks for helps so far.

2002/12/29 02:28 GMT (via web):
Cliff - for organizing your knowlege base you may be interested in pursuing the FAQ type pages: FAQ. You may be interested in the form at OldZwikiFAQPage? for people interested in finding, but not ready to commit to editing, faqs. Great description on the front page, btw. I contemplated the use of the comment box for adding the item to the front page, but like your method best. It's consistent, gives them a realistic initiation, and easier once you start adding headings and other things (items don't necesarily go on the bottom) to the page.

Keywords.. "See Also:" has been used a lot to reference related pages. The search will hit the full text of your site (thus you may want to add a catalog at some point for speed) so a similar monikor may work: Keywords: , Categories: ... darn, drawing a blank.

PieterB, 2002/12/30 12:42 GMT (via mail):
GeneralDiscussion porting some webseitz wiki things back to zwiki

Hi BillSeitz,

I'll be interested in porting some of the things you wrote for WebSeitzWiki back to the current Zwiki.

Things I'm interested in from http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/ZwikiCustomizations :

PieterB

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/30 15:49 GMT (via web):
WebSeitz? features

I like distributing the Submit->Post changes, but not necesarily as default behavior. This points out gaps between functionality for an intranet and public site. I wouldn't want this any more than a skin option.

Word seperation: Title tag makes sense, but please don't change the header. Changing the browser status bar is fine. Good luck...glad your familier with the mail features, title_or_id related code might get tricky.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/30 15:53 GMT (via web):
BloggingDiscussion

This discussion has been fairly dry. Anybody still interested? I've gotten sidetracked by feature creap (How would I do /that/?) stuff, so haven't got anything postable yet.

If anyone knows how to render a dtml-calendar date in a YY-mm-dd format (dashes, not /'s) I'd appreciate it.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/30 21:11 GMT (via web):
Trailing punctionation on auto-linked URL's can get quite cumbersome. For effeciency sake, I would suggest only removing specific items, but want to query the community for that list.

Starters: comma, semi-colon

right paren, and less/greater than, square brackets(note:freeform link and stx reference flag)

question mark, exclamation mark, Period

Questionable:

Asteric, elipse (or near elipse: double, triple period), quotation marks