Archived GeneralDiscussion.

changing header --Simon Michael, 2003/03/01 15:04 GMT

> I'd like to customize misc_/ZWiki/ZWikiPage_icon.gif

The faq Dean pointed out looks like it will help (yay, go FAQ!).


> I tried creating a folder named misc_ to put
> ZWiki/ZWikiPage_icon.gif into .. that failed due to duplicate ID

/misc_ is a special zope internal folder for product icons & such.


> I then tried installing standard_wiki_header, it made the 'manage this
> page' rename reparent stuff to disappear.

The reason: using standard_wiki_header forces it to also use standard_wiki_footer (the built-in version in this case). But, standard_wiki_footer is not as up to date as the wikipage template used by zwiki.org. You may want to use that instead (see http://zwiki.org/CustomizationFAQ -> Customization for nearly absolute beginners ).

comment divisions --Simon Michael, 2003/03/01 15:07 GMT
Yes.. but, it's harder to pick out the subject if the whole line is bold.. and I want minimal decoration. It could be made customizable. It does put an icon when in a CMF site. I'm going to make it always put --.

fascinating leaked mail from Davos --Simon Michael, 2003/03/01 19:27 GMT
http://www.topica.com/lists/psychohistory/read/message.html?mid=1711891071&sort=d&start=4389

and discussion at lawmeme: http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=938

(courtesy of slashdot: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/28/1823256&mode=thread&tid=158 )

2003/03/02 10:50 GMT
is there an easy way to add DTML to a page to list all it's children? --Mike Beaton, 2003/03/02 10:57 GMT

2003/03/02 10:59 GMT
newbie question --Mike Beaton, 2003/03/02
Do I have to submit comments via email in order to automatically get my comment title formatted in bold and my name shown? (I'm just using the comment form to submit this...)

newbie question --SimonMichael, 2003/03/02 15:41 GMT
No, web and email comments have the same effect. There used to be a "with heading" checkbox, but we got rid of it.

[Customization]? how do I add an editable property to a ZWiki? --2003/03/02 15:42 GMT
I would like to add a property to the ZWiki Page class, and make it easily editable from the management interface (and possibly from the Zwiki page itself). How do I go about it? I have no problem with Python, but the ZWiki code is definitely nontrivial, so I would like some suggestions. thanks.

Zwiki version 0.16.0 released --Simon Michael, 2003/03/02 15:54 GMT
The "Ack! I forgot" release. Cheers, -Simon

Summary

CMF skin updates, various mail tweaks to support mailing list integration, enhancements to comment behaviour, WWML, misc. bugfixes.

Changes

Skins and content

Mail

General

http://zwiki.org/releases/ZWiki-0.16.0.tgz http://zope.org/Members/simon/ZWiki/ZWiki-0.16.0.tgz http://zwiki.org/KnownIssues http://zwiki.org

newbie question --MichaelBeaton?, 2003/03/02 17:46 GMT
Ah yes, it would help if I had noticed the subject: line under the comment form ;-)

Sorry! Thanks for the feedback.

fit helper, status? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/03 02:41 GMT
Simon & Python Fit folks:

Would this HTML table helper generator be handy for the Py FIT effort? http://freshmeat.net/projects/pyhtmltable/?topic_id=96%2C867

Got any specific plans for this one?

Thoughts on fitness ? I found their calling a SubPage? a SubWiki confusing.

Related ORA Blog entry

free word link wiki idea --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/03 15:59 GMT
Hi Simon, hi folks! I want to have a hypertext wikilike tool where all words are checked for linking without special patterns, just some escape characters. I guess for such a wiki a LinkDatabase is needed. - What do you think: Is it better to modify the current ZwikiCode or write it new?

FullLinkedWiki --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/04 07:09 GMT
I start to make a new PageType? fulllinked (maybe you know a better name for this) and make some notes on FullLinkedWiki.

fit helper, status? --Simon Michael, 2003/03/04 16:35 GMT
Thanks for the links Dean. FitNesse? looks nifty. That makes three public wiki engines with support for ZwikiAndFit.

I think their use of "subwiki" is actually the same as ours. It is an actual namespace of wiki pages, not just a single page. Differences: we put the new pages in a subfolder, they just prefix Parentpage. to the page names. Also we make links to the parent wiki automatically, they don't (you have to write .Pagename).

It's interesting and I like how a subwiki can sprout from any page (no need to have special access to create folders. It has some aspects of our subwikis and our page hierarchy. On the other hand it seems a bit confusing right now.

is there an easy way to add DTML to a page to list all it's children? --Simon Michael, 2003/03/04 16:44 GMT
Yes, maybe something like these:

 <dtml-var offspring> 
 <dtml-var offspringIdsAsList>
 <dtml-var "_.wikilink(offspringIdsAsList())">

how do I add an editable property to a ZWiki? --Simon Michael, 2003/03/04 16:49 GMT
I'd start with one of the existing properties, and just copy what it does. Eg look at how last_edit_time is set up at the top of ZWikiPage. Adding your property as a class attribute and an entry in _properties may be enough. Later, you might separate your stuff into a mixin class for maintainability. Also upgrade() can add missing properties and update old ones.

how do I add an editable property to a ZWiki? --Simon Michael, 2003/03/04 17:02 GMT
Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> writes:
> Adding your property as a class attribute and an entry in _properties
> may be enough.

PS that gets you a property editable in the ZMI. To make it editable in the wiki edit form, customize editform. To make it editable on all pages, add an appropriate form in your standard header/footer or wikipage template. Finally, to present it within the body of a page, you could take a look at issue pages (Tracker.py).

subpage zwiki design --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/04 17:13 GMT
Thanks for your thoughts. I see how they're similar, and like both.

What are your opinions on adding auto-subpage notation (sprout) functionality to FreeformLink s? Such as [.ThisIsaSubPageofCurrentPage] would render as [GeneralDiscussion.ThisIsaSubPageofCurrentPage]

I chose "." as / or \ gets mangled in the URL. Not sure of the zope scripting/namespacing implications. I'll refrain from listing other implications.

This functionaity is would help a lot for a decent templating/outlining/fill-in-the-blanks-mulit-page starter which I and a friend have been contemplating.

main page was blank --Tril, 2003/03/05 06:11 GMT
It looked like anonymous erased the main page of zwiki.org. I went to the History and checked the previous revision and pressed Copy to Present and it asked me for a password, but the page came back. So was the page really gone and I fixed it, before the password prompt came up?

main page was blank --SimonMichael, 2003/03/05 07:09 GMT
Yes, I think that's right. There is a known zope issue which requests authentication in history when it shouldn't. Thanks for the repair.

CVSBackend? --PieterB, 2003/03/05 08:22 GMT
Does anybody know a Wiki which has a CVS backend? (using CVS as a storage backend for revisions and content)

I found this page on Twiki, http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/CVSBackendProgress describing there aint a Twiki CVS backend.

And PyleWiki has an option for a CVS backend (according to http://www.zipcon.net/~showell/cgi-bin/FolderPiki.py/main:PyleWiki)

It would be nice to be able to use other backend than ZODB for Zwiki.

Any thoughts?

CVSBackend? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/05 16:53 GMT
What benefits are you hoping to get from a CVS backend? If more explicit backup, is an add-on mechanism for archiving every page OK? Perhaps by "sending" every page to said repository upon change.

Properties & Restore are still issues.

Is ZODB the problem or the file format?

ZMailboy?, EditMembers? updated --SimonMichael, 2003/03/05 18:33 GMT
I had an inquiry so have posted the latest code on these pages. They should now have all the pieces you need to do the same. (simple mailman/CMF integration & member management).

subscription question --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/05 21:28 GMT
Anybody have a recipe for a "1-click subscribe" button?

I'm currently seeing a need for a "subscribe to all tracker pages" (but not every page) functionality. I think a more convenient subscription mechanism might make this unnecesary, and/or pave the way for it technically.

RFC: four simplifications --SimonMichael, 2003/03/06 07:30 GMT
Here are four related ideas which I think have promise:

  1. invariant ids - currently there is no invariant relationship between a page's name and it's id. The id is usually assigned based on the name (canonicalIdFrom) but title and id can also be completely unrelated and links still work (eg issue pages). This is the reason linking large numbers of freeform links is expensive, because you have to check the titles of all pages (directly or via catalog). Is this a useful or a superfluous feature ? Doesn't it give rise to confusion ? We could simplify and say a page's id is always the canonicalIdFrom the title (page name). Then checking a freeform link is easy.
  2. new issue naming scheme - this means issues will no longer be able to have a long name and a numeric id. What if we embed the number at the beginning of the name instead. Eg "0444 having trouble with...", which will have id "0444HavingTroubleWith...". Relying on standard_error_message we can still reference issues with a standard short url (zwiki.org/0444), they will sort correctly etc.
  3. drop punctuation from ids - although we can abbreviate them, issue urls will be longer and more ugly than they were. To alleviate this somewhat, let's drop punctuation characters from ids instead of quoting them. This means punctuation in freeform links will be insignificant, like spaces. This sounds fine, it was really accented characters I wanted to preserve, not general punctuation.
  4. merge issue page type - instead of having a separate page type for issues, we could select "issue" behaviour based on the page name. If a page's name begins with a number, it's an "issue" and should have the issue form displayed and be listed in the IssueTracker. I figure issues are a common and useful enough concept it wouldn't hurt to merge this into the default page type, and using one kind of page everywhere reduces confusion. Easier to change a page to an issue and vice-versa, whether that would be useful I'm not sure.

RFC: four simplifications --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/06 08:08 GMT
#1 Answer: This problem does give a LOT of rise to confusion. Freeform links do not backlink well (for me). Tweeked titles don't show up on searches (tracker downer). The freeform speed issue gets a lot of groans in my neck of the woods...and our shop prefers freeform.

#3, Drop punctiation. Does this mean no more (or much fewer) messy URL's , and garbled reparent text box confusion?

#2,#4, Merge issue page type - Sounds fine, but don't drop the "Issue" prefix.

---

You caught me amidst number crunching, and I needed the mental break. Hope it's coherent. Tell me where it isn't and I'd much rather re-write than have it dismissed. Leaving out other questions and opportunistic possibilities.

Summary: It all sounds OK, I'm not sure the complete ramifications of loss of punctuation, and I would not like the type prefix name dropped from record type pages.

RFC: four simplifications --SimonMichael, 2003/03/06 11:43 GMT
Thanks for the feedback Dean. Don't worry, everything that goes by here is food for thought even when I don't respond directly.

RFC: four simplifications --SimonMichael, 2003/03/06 20:19 GMT
I've installed the least troublesome of these changes, #3. I believe this has no impact on existing pages, only new free-form pages. Compare:

old:

 <dtml-var "oldCanonicalIdFrom('IssueNo0010 sometimes pages don\'t appear in contents (page deletion leaves orphans)')">

new: IssueNo0010SometimesPagesDontAppearInContentsPageDeletionLeavesOrphans

Unlike the other punctuation characters, ' is not counted as a word separator, as you can see.

I haven't done anything to issue pages, only renamed issue 10 to see how these ideas would look. For now the name starts with IssueNo for compatibility.

With invariant ids we could no longer use short bare wiki links for issue pages (IssueNo0010?), only #10 sometimes pages don't appear in contents (page deletion leaves orphans) or #10 sometimes pages don't appear in contents (page deletion leaves orphans). Alternatives ? Don't include the number in the name; don't include the description in the name; allow numbers in the middle of wiki names; ... ? None of these are very appealing.

RFC: four simplifications --SimonMichael, 2003/03/06 22:27 GMT
After checking out various implications - code, performance, Frontpage, IssueTracker, KnownIssues, contents, issue properties form, incoming links, etc. - I lean - slightly - towards going ahead with renaming all issues to [IssueNoNNNN issue description] and always using freeform links for issues, to conform with the invariant ids plan. Not today though. All other ideas welcome.

Images and ZWiki --ArnoPucher, 2003/03/07 06:31 GMT
Has it been a topic how to incorporate an image to a ZWiki pages in the means of supporting a ZWiki mechanismn (not to import it to Zope and refer it into the page manually ?

I mean incorparationg images that belong TO a page (maybe a new property - pictureList or so)

Images --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/07 07:33 GMT
There was a conversation somewhere (I think and issue page?) regarding a more page specific file upload & management system. Prototypes for associating (and easily managing that association) a page with uploaded files is something that would be appreciated. ZWiki's global is more usable than Squishdot's node specific, but a happy medium would be best. Issues: id Uniqueness w/ sharability/multiple associations, and a few of us have run into some strange catalog issues here.

RFC: four simplifications --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/07 09:45 GMT
Just briefly some notes about the recent suggestions (but please keep in mind i'm not completely familiar with the internas):

A few add. comments and questions about the FullLinkedWiki idea:

login blues --HerbertHrachovec?, 2003/03/08 17:19 GMT
I need to offer a login prompt to my ZWiki. In order to achieve this I proceeded according to the hint in CustomizationFAQ?, inserting the appropriate dtml-call into a login-page. Now, when I try to log in the dialog comes up allright, but am not redirected to the FrontPage. I just get a page echoing the dtml-call. Can anybody help?

login blues resolved --HerbertHrachovec?, 2003/03/09 11:36 GMT
I found the answer to my query. CustomizationFAQ? is wrong. It advises you to isert

anglebracket dtml-call "RESPONSE.redirect(_['URL1']?+/FrontPage)anglebracket "

which should be

anglebracket dtml-call "RESPONSE.redirect(_['URL1']?+/FrontPage)" anglebracket

Adding an editable property to a ZWiki --WalterAprile?, 2003/03/09
I now understand that this is done modifying ZWikiPage.py and following the model of the class properties already present in the file. Simon told me that

Adding your property as a class attribute and an entry in _properties may be enough. Later, you might separate your stuff into a mixin class for maintainability. Also upgrade() can add missing properties and update old ones. that gets you a property editable in the ZMI. To make it editable in the wiki edit form, customize editform. To make it editable on all pages, add an appropriate form in your standard header/footer or wikipage template. Finally, to present it within the body of a page, you could take a look at issue pages (Tracker.py).
The next question is, would this affect the already existing poor little ZWikiPages?? I don't know what happens when Zope/Zwiki tries to load objects whose definition has changed... I am somewhat afraid of making the experiment, though.

authenticate user --WimBekker, 2003/03/10 09:02 GMT
I want reparent, rename and delete (like below) only to appear for authenticated users. So I've changed their permissions. But when does a user become authenticated? The only way I can do it is by managing the site, but then the user is also manager.

WimBekker, 2003/03/10 09:19 GMT
When the page is of type "issuedtml" i need an extra button. I've added this to wikipage.zpt with: "tal:condition="python:request.get(page_type,'') == 'issuedtml'". But this button is never displayed. When I add the same text to the page (issuedtml), the button is displayed. I really could need some good advice how to solve this ;)

TextIndexNG? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/10 18:38 GMT
Has anyone used TextIndexNG? for better searching of a ZWiki?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/textindexng

checking page type --Simon Michael, 2003/03/11 00:08 GMT
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (WimBekker) writes:
> When the page is of type "issuedtml" i need an extra button. I've added this
> to wikipage.zpt with: "tal:condition="python:request.get(page_type,'') ==
> 'issuedtml'". But this button is never displayed. When I add the same text to

Chat me on irc some time (sm).

authenticate user --Simon Michael, 2003/03/11 00:17 GMT

> I want reparent, rename and delete (like below) only to appear for
> authenticated users. So I've changed their permissions. But when does a user
> become authenticated? The only way I can do it is by managing the site, but
> then the user is also manager.

In the default wikipage.zpt, the condition for displaying the page management form is:

  request.get('zwiki_displaymode',0) == 'full'
  and (user.has_permission('Zwiki: Rename pages',here) or
       user.has_permission('Zwiki: Delete pages',here))
  and (user.has_role('Authenticated') or request.get('zwiki_username',''))

You can customize wikipage and change this to whatever you want. Eg remove the condition, so the form is always displayed; login should be triggered when someone tries to rename or delete. Hope this helps.

page renaming in progress --SimonMichael, 2003/03/11 05:04 GMT
The grand renaming of issue pages (to give them canonical ids) is in progress. Sorry about the disruption to the site (I'm not able to unit test renames). I hoped to include this operation in the page auto-upgrade but it seems too slow so at present one must run upgradeAll or PAGE/upgradeId or rename pages manually.

page renaming in progress --2003/03/11 12:21 GMT
All the old IssueNo?0xxx links are broken now, also the [title bla bla] links. That's very bad. Can we handle this somehow? Leave placeholder pages??

page renaming, issue links broken --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/11 15:29 GMT
The quick fix to these it to turn the IssueNo0010? into IssueNo0010? :

 "IssueNo0010":IssueNo0010

which will link the the appropriate issue.

I've done that sucessfully with a FAQ page.

More explicit may be: ZWiki:IssueNo0010

page renaming, issue links broken --2003/03/11 16:56 GMT
But how to fix all the broken links on the whole site? you'd need a script for that....

zopetime --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/11 18:09 GMT
I have so many problems with my new site/ new server, it drives me mad. Have you any idea about changes in Zope-2.6.1 and Zwiki-0.16 and problems both working together regarding ZopeTime?? For example:

  Traceback (innermost last):
    * Module ZPublisher?.Publish, line 98, in publish
    * Module ZPublisher?.mapply, line 88, in mapply
    * Module ZPublisher?.Publish, line 39, in call_object
    * Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage?, line 1991, in comment
  AttributeError?: strftime

I could give you several kB of error pages, if you don't have enough yourself (which is what i hope :-)

page renaming, issue links broken --SimonMichael, 2003/03/11 18:13 GMT
Yes, I'm going to do it with a script. Other things noted on KnownIssues. This has turned out to be quite a big task. FYI, page id == canonicalIdFrom(title) is now true for all pages.

Adding an editable property to a ZWiki --SimonMichael, 2003/03/11 19:52 GMT
Walter - I had the same questions.. the old comments in upgrade() and the "backwards compatilibility" section of ZWikiPage.py might help. Basically if you add your attribute and property declaration to the class, it's available on all zwiki pages next time you restart zope. If you add it to a particular instance (eg in upgrade()) it will only be on that page. Zope/python is quite flexible like this.

authenticate user --WimBekker, 2003/03/12 09:19 GMT
I've kind a got things working but not like I want. I cannot debug (don't know how) which for me allways is a great way to learn. So I have to make changes and see how the reflect. I've got a huge tal:condition problem. It works in wikipage.zpt but not in the form itself?

I'm working on updating my user page to explain in more details what I'm trying to do.

(Chat me on irc some time (sm). where? how?)

authenticate user --SimonMichael, 2003/03/12 16:07 GMT
Hi Wim - irc.freenode.net, #zwiki. Sounds like time to expand your zope debugging skills. I was chatting with Florian about this yesterday. Maybe we can capture some of the techniques and generate a nice ZopeDebugging intro.

authenticate user --SimonMichael, 2003/03/12 16:17 GMT
PS nice home page update, thanks for sharing details of what you're up to.

google indexing --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/12 21:59 GMT
If it matters, I think http://zwiki.org/zwikidir/ is being indexed by Google. The SearchPage? is also, under a few different paramenters. (?expr= type of example links.)

strange problem with catalog --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/13 04:59 GMT
Simon: Would you mind adding more details to the strange problem with the catalog bug fix?

I see the change in CatalogAwareness.py : def catalog ... return getattr(self, -> getattr(self.folder() (line 74)

I'd like to know what that may have been causing or fixed. After the change I noticed that a search on a cataloged subwiki didn't go via brute force...which I would'a checked pre-change!:-) Yet I have other RecentChanges? strangeness...

strange problem with catalog --SimonMichael, 2003/03/13 05:05 GMT
I found catalog() returning None because self.Catalog failed to acquire. self.folder().Catalog worked. I don't know why, I just changed it.

In other news.. RecentChanges? on this site has just broken.

RecentChanges? anomalies --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/13 05:18 GMT
My old code would fail in catalog mode when I submitted with a value for number of pages, with header. (OK without.) Only in catalog mode (a SubWiki) and not in brute force (root wiki). See DeanGoodmanson for traceback.

Not a big deal,I planned to upgrade to the new one. So I did. The latest RecentChanges? has the following issues:

RecentChange? crash --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/13 14:47 GMT
The only extra information I can add about RecentChanges? crashing is that I added some pages to ZWiki:/subwiki

RecentChange? crash --SimonMichael, 2003/03/13 19:15 GMT
I don't think that was it.. I'll investigate later. Thanks..

Plone problems --2003/03/13 21:49 GMT
I have set up the CMFWiki that came pre-installed with Plone. Overall it's working fine but I have a few problems:

  1. Backlinks are not being updated. If I de-link a page from its parent (add ! before the WikiWord?), the backlinks still show the parent as linked.
  2. Index is not being updated. Search returns results for non-existent pages.
  3. Sometimes, I see superfluous html, head, title, and body tags within the Wiki area. I'm seeing this problem on other Plone sites too (e.g. http://plone.org/development/current/index_html/projects)
  4. Some block-level html elements that I add, e.g. h5, get wrapped with p tags. Other block-level elements, like table, don't.

JEdit? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/13 23:18 GMT
JEdit?'s Code2HTML HTML colorized syntax output worked great for dropping code samples into my ZWiki for many, many languages and doc. types. Not even a need to strip the HEAD or BODY tags. :-}

RecentChange? crash --SimonMichael, 2003/03/14 05:47 GMT
It was a combination of things.. I've fixed a bug introduced some time back when I moved a try statement during debugging. RC's catalog-based code fails but it now falls back to brute-force and works as it should. The catalog version is failing because of some no longer existing pages which have remained in the catalog (NewestRecentChanges?, NewerRecentChanges?). I don't know how that happened, unless it's related to my change to rename() yesterday..

zwiki.org mail aliases messed up --SimonMichael, 2003/03/14 06:05 GMT
I lost the zwiki.org mail aliases through some mixup with another domain. Will replace, but things may be a little screwed up for a bit.

RecentChanges? crash --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/14 06:16 GMT
Thanks for getting the info so quick. Guess I owe you some testing follow-up. :-)

Latest page with catalogawareness fix: Brute force=Works. :-) Subwiki(w/catalog)=Note field note displayed. last_log ??

Kinda confused about that "missing" attribute with the last_log var. When I plop some text next to the &nbsp; it doesn't display. It's as if the field is never missing, but the catalog view (caveat:subwiki) never displays the Note field regardless.

Side note: CatalogAwareness?.py does not refresh, I had to do a zope restart, as you warned me previously about product refresh not always 100% reliable.

If this makes sense, I'll log it as a minor issue.

Plone problems --Simon Michael, 2003/03/14 06:20 GMT
FYI, I prefer not to spend time on CMFWiki problems; someone else here or on the zope-cmf list may know more.

zwiki.org mail aliases messed up --SimonMichael, 2003/03/14 06:53 GMT
Mail aliases should be back to normal now.

The catalog has been rebuilt (I'm assuming this request is going to complete). I had problems with it trying to re-link one of the big pages and failing due to max recursion error.

I also saw some really weird things, semi-existing pages, etc, which turned out to be due to some zeo process having half died.

Stuff breaking all over. I'd better go to bed now.

WimBekker, 2003/03/14 12:36 GMT
Though not perfect, I'm now able to do some debugging with pdb. At least I can walk the code and inspect variables etc. Now if someone has a nice IDE in stead of the command line debugging :)

You guys are so busy here. This allmost is a PrivateDiscussion? page !

Debuggers --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/14 15:16 GMT

>> This allmost is a PrivateDiscussion?? page !

I like to consider it an OpenDiscussion...but if the chatter gets annoying, subscrbing via Digest Mode may help. :-)

I think that the Wing IDE and Komodo offer zope debugging, more info at ZopeDebugging . There's also some news that debugging support may be built into Boa constructor. , http://plone.org/Members/runyaga/conferences/InfraeSprint/day2

Debuggers --SimonMichael, 2003/03/15 01:24 GMT
Wim, I use emacs and EmacsWiki:PdbTrack.

Traffic here has been mostly developer-oriented lately.. I don't feel as if there's enough to justify separate user and dev pages, do you ?

new page type --SimonMichael, 2003/03/16 06:06 GMT
ChangeLog?: *New general-purpose page type incorporating issue and fit support: stxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml (STX + links + DTML + fit tests + issue + HTML). I think these are useful enough and will stay out of the way well enough to justify turning them on more widely. fit tests are run if there are tables whose first cell begins with fit. or fittests.. An issue properties form is displayed if the page name begins with IssueNo?. This is the new default page type on zwiki.org.

linking speedups --SimonMichael, 2003/03/16 07:44 GMT
Basic optimization based on the new invariant ids.

www.zwiki.org - Frontpage down --ArnoPucher, 2003/03/17 06:31 GMT
just a note - the Frontpage renders with an error; unfortunatly my knowledge isn't enough to repair :(

side effect of the "new" ZWiki version ?

Frontpage down the traceback --ArnoPucher, 2003/03/17 06:34 GMT
Traceback of www.zwiki.org:

  Site Error

    An error was encountered while publishing this resource. 

  KeyError

    Sorry, a site error occurred.

  Traceback (innermost last): 
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publish_module
  Module Products.Localizer, line 58, in new_publish
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish
  Module Zope.App.startup, line 182, in zpublisher_exception_hook
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish
  Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object
  Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 214, in __call__
  Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 226, in _render
  Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 395, in render_stxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml
  Module OFS.DTMLDocument, line 131, in __call__
  Module DocumentTemplate.DT_String, line 474, in __call__
  Module DocumentTemplate.DT_Let, line 76, in render
  Module DocumentTemplate.DT_In, line 705, in renderwob
  Module DocumentTemplate.DT_Util, line 201, in eval
  __traceback_info__: id
  Module <string>, line 2, in f
  Module AccessControl.DTML, line 32, in guarded_getitem
  Module AccessControl.ZopeGuards, line 90, in guarded_getitem
  Module OFS.ObjectManager, line 652, in __getitem__

  KeyError 

www.zwiki.org - Frontpage down --Simon Michael, 2003/03/17 16:36 GMT
An entry for /zwiki/recycle_bin/IssueNo0468Test was left in the catalog after that page was deleted, somehow, causing FrontPage to break. I removed the catalog entry by hand and made FrontPage more robust in that situation.

Documentation for help with Zope and Zwiki permissions as they relate to each other --2003/03/17 18:23 GMT
Hi all, I saw just enough on the GeneralDiscussion page at zwiki.org to realize that permissions in Zwiki are moderated by the default wikipage.zpt which included, for example the suggestion that "the condition for displaying the page management form is:

request.get(zwiki_displaymode,0) == full and (user.has_permission(Zwiki: Rename pages,here) or user.has_permission(Zwiki: Delete pages,here)) and (user.has_role(Authenticated) or request.get(zwiki_username,''))"

At the suggestion of the host at the Zope site, zettai.net, where I am running some instances of Zwiki, I tried to get where I wanted with permissions by changing the permissions under the security tab in Zope. But I see that the Zwiki scripts and templates have a role to play as well which may explain why I cannot get the search and RecentChanges? functions to work for anonymous users. I was trying to get the Zwiki to run like it does here at Zwiki.Org.

Where is the best place to read up on where Zope permissions leave off and the scripting in the nature of permissions in Zwiki takes over. Thanks, JohnDeBruyn

Documentation for help with Zope and Zwiki permissions as they relate to each other --Simon Michael, 2003/03/17 19:31 GMT
Hi John,

to start with, configure the Zwiki: ... or Add ZWiki Pages permissions appropriately. Other relevant permissions are Add Documents, Images, and Files (for file upload) and FTP access. Zope's Access contents information and View permissions are needed for basic page viewing, of course.

Zwiki's upgradeAll method requires Manage properties permission on the folder.

In a few places (renaming, deleting, and displaying the page management form) zwiki also requires some user name - if not a zope login, then a username cookie from UserOptions?. This is to give a little extra protection from random anonymous visitors.

I think that's it in a nutshell. If anyone finds other details please post.

2003/03/17 21:04 GMT
Hi Simon: Much appreciated. I set Add ZWiki Pages, "Add Documents, Images and Files," FTP access, Access contents and View Permissions to anonymous ... and still neither the search function nor RecentChanges? would run in anonymous mode. Here is what came up for me:

Site Error An error was encountered while publishing this resource.

Unauthorized

Sorry, a site error occurred.

Traceback (innermost last):

Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publish_module 
Module Products.Localizer, line 58, in new_publish 
Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish 
Module Zope.App.startup, line 182, in zpublisher_exception_hook 
Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish 
Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply 
Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object 
Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 221, in __call__ 
Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 233, in _render 
Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 416, in render_stxprelinkdtmlhtml 
Module OFS.DTMLDocument, line 131, in __call__ 
Module DocumentTemplate.DT_String, line 474, in __call__ 
Module DocumentTemplate.DT_In, line 678, in renderwob 
Module AccessControl.DTML, line 32, in guarded_getitem 
Module AccessControl.ZopeGuards, line 94, in guarded_getitem 
----

Perhaps I need to get into the templates and scripts to let anonymous users search and access RecentChanges??

Your thought on my predicament are much appreciated, JohnDeBruyn

permissions problem --SimonMichael, 2003/03/17 23:09 GMT
It could be that there's one or more pages in the wiki which have more restricted permissions. SearchPage? and RecentChanges? will tend to show those, since they look up attributes of many pages. On RecentChanges?, try removing all the code or try limiting the number of pages shown (to exclude the problem page). There are two products that would help you find the problem page - VerboseSecurity?, and another whose name I don't remember which will report all non-standard permissions settings.

page parameter hack? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/20 15:37 GMT
RFC: Every wiki page includes an implicit RemoteWikiLink? to itself. (This would be overridable with an explicit RemoteWikiLink?)

Feature: Adding parameters to wiki links.

Examples: GeneralDiscussion:#bottom , RecentChanges?:?num=10 FilterIssues:?statuses:list=pending

Current workaround is to use an HTML or StructuredText link GeneralDiscussion:#bottom which may have relative URL problems and doesn't flow nicely with free-form...then again, not sure this will work with freeform links well without work, either. :-/ 80% coverage for majority benefit? Test: frontpage#bottom does this go to the FrontPage#bottom ?

page parameter hack? --SimonMichael, 2003/03/20 19:51 GMT
Hi Dean. That could work well. Con: it might be one more magical syntax too many. We'll see. Also, I was thinking RemoteWikiLinks (tag: RemoteWikiURL) should be renamed to RemoteSites? (tag: RemoteURL?). And that perhaps a freeform link containing : should be treated as a remote link, allowing short remote site abbreviations ([w:WelcomeVisitors]?). I think that's WikiPedia-style.

status, news --SimonMichael, 2003/03/20 20:16 GMT
I had an opportunity to do some quality thinking recently, and wrote down a bunch of ideas that I liked the look of. Several of these have made it into the code recently and it's looking like an interesting release (ChangeLog?). I'm closing the gap between tracker issues and ordinary pages - on this site, they are the same except for the naming - still a few bugs to be fixed there. Also I have more WWML updates to merge from PeterMerel. Other than that we're in bugfix mode right now.

More page type thought needed later - I feel we'll most often want to offer just two page types, "wiki" (all zwiki's bells & whistles plus the wiki's chosen formatting markup - stx/wwml/restx..) and "html" (impersonates a standard web page for non-techie or non-wiki users, no nasty surprises). Also the situation with enabling/controlling/being aware of DTML is not completely satisfactory, I'm not sure how to improve that.

If you were trying to stop the war and are feeling discouraged, I saw some good uplifting stuff at http://alternet.org . We need to remember the big picture. I wish every one of you a peaceful week, free from danger. This month's release will be going out to the people in Iraq.

page parameter hack? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/20 20:33 GMT
Con: More magic syntax. As long as it's consistent with the remote, I think it's OK. I'd hate to have a seperate #,&,?,etc. when : can umbrella the gammit.

I like the idea of renaming the RemoteWiki?. Most of my remote links are to other local pages/wiki or web sites. I would prefer a "RemoteSite?" and "RemoteSiteURL?" notation to keep the words ultra-similar. (fwiw, Changing URL to Address may also help, fwiw.)

To clarify I expected a freeform to look like GeneralDiscussion:#bottom . I'll take this to a new thread.

freeform links with included colon --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/20 20:41 GMT
WikiPedia is currently down. :-(

Does the [w:WelcomeVisitors] case translate OK to [w]:WelcomeVisitors ? In retrospect I can't see any major technical or noteworthy social issues if it's internal to the brackets. (need to revisit coming RestructuredText bracket rules,but..)

p.s. Have you implemented a max-size on a freeform link? What size, and did it help performance?

dtml security --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/20 21:52 GMT
I would like "dtml enabled page content editing" to be a security line item tied to page modification. Pages with DTML support lose the EDIT and COMMENT features unless authenticated.

This would probably require a notice to be displayed when the access is restricted pages (due to dynamic UI).

Caveat: I think the FAQ page will break as the edits are done anonymously.

Debuggers --2003/03/21 13:14 GMT
Whow, I've installed Boa constructor. This is exactly what I was looking for. Now I've to get Zope running. I have installed Python23 on my system. My Zope installation uses Python21. Also, somewhere is python21.dll called. I cannot figure out where exactly, but I believe it has something to do with zlib. But when I use zlib from version 23 I get the same error. Here's how far I'm now:

I start Boa, run z2.py. This gives the error unable to find python21.dll. This error also happens when I run z2.py from explorer (python23 loads and runs it). In Boa, I get a Traceback: z2.py: import ZServer? .... HTTPResponse?.py: import zlib,struct.

When I copy python21.dll to the path, I get an import error: module use of python21.dll conflicts with this version of Python. (same traceback).

I definitely could use some help on how to get past this obstacle. Currently I use Zope 2.6.0 and python 2.1.3 (for Zope).

Making "full" the default --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/21 13:29 GMT
I thought this would work for making "full" (not simple) the default ''zwiki_displaymode'' but it doesn't.

I placed the following in the top of my standard_wiki_header:

 <dtml-unless zwiki_displaymode>
   <dtml-call "REQUEST.set('zwiki_displaymode','full')">
 </dtml-unless>

I was hoping I wouldn't have to change every instance of the checking in the standard_wiki_header, footer.

We have Safari users who can't save cookies, and full is better than simple for our intranet use.

Debuggers --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/21 13:36 GMT
You'll probably get a much quicker answer for that specific question on the Zope mailing list. Warning: It's a heavy traffic list, I subscribe in digest mode but rarely keep up.

script disabling --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/21 16:23 GMT
Reminder to self: Document how to remove scripting safeguard from zwiki code for intranet usage.

IssueTracker is down due with GuardedItem? traceback. I might have spurned it requesting a delete to a spam bug (which incidentally showed up twice in the recentchanges.)

On to my point:

 &lt;disabled script LANGUAGE="JavaScript"&gt;
 <!-- Begin
 function varitext(text){
 text=document
 print(text)
 }
 //  End -->
 &lt;disabled /script&gt;

Script examples in pre scenario's are munged. Workaround (?):

 < s cript LANGUAGE="J avaScript">
 <!-- Begin
 function varitext(text){
 text=document
 print(text)
 }
 //  End -->
 </ s cript>

User Interface feedback --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/21 21:54 GMT
Got some fresh opinions today on a local wiki. Standards STX or HTML discussions. (Boy am I looking forward to ReSTX).

Big one: The "edit" link doesn't stand out enough.

Has anyone else run into this? What did you do about it?

I'm considering adding an Edit button before "Add a Comment", or increasing the text size on the word "edit"...other thoughts?

tracker fixes, more performance improvements --Simon Michael, 2003/03/22 00:24 GMT
Sorry for the downtime today y'all; big old tracker and linking changes. I posted an update on ZwikiIssueTracker. Some cleanup of the page lookup methods has yielded another speedup and reduced memory usage.

freeform links with included colon --Simon Michael, 2003/03/22 00:26 GMT
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> Does the [w:WelcomeVisitors] case translate OK to [w]:WelcomeVisitors ? In

I don't like the latter much - too many false positives, and makes links less clear for new editors.


> p.s. Have you implemented a max-size on a freeform link? What size, and did it
> help performance?

No I haven't.

dtml security --Simon Michael, 2003/03/22 00:30 GMT
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> I would like "dtml enabled page content editing" to be a security line item
> tied to page modification. Pages with DTML support lose the EDIT and COMMENT
> features unless authenticated.

You might be right.. add a Zwiki: edit executable pages or Zwiki: edit dynamic pages permission. It will create more confusion, but probably ease concerns about DTML.


> Caveat: I think the FAQ page will break as the edits are done
> anonymously.

No problem for this site, I would grant that permission to anonymous.

Making "full" the default --Simon Michael, 2003/03/22 00:46 GMT

> I thought this would work for making "full" (not simple) the default
> ''zwiki_displaymode'' but it doesn't.

I'd have thought so too. I think I tried the same thing. Anyone ? What if you remove the unless ?

User Interface feedback --Simon Michael, 2003/03/22 00:52 GMT
It used to be a bold edit this page, and bigger. I expect some people will find a button even better.

Or, how about including it at the top of the page, under the search box. I did this the other day so I could remove the footer entirely (and the search box, for a really simple page). I liked it a lot.

Making "full" the default --Simon Michael, 2003/03/22 01:00 GMT
REQUEST.set may leave an existing value in REQUEST.cookies, and perhaps REQUEST.get looks there first.

Zwiki UNCLinkSupport --PieterB, 2003/03/22 14:13 GMT
Ok, I would like it to be possible to use UNC-style linking on Zwiki. So

\\SERVER\SHARE would be transformed to <a href="file://///SERVER/SHARE/">\\SERVER\SHARE</a>

This works both in IE and Mozilla on Win32 (checked most recent versions). I think it should be possible to enable UNC-linking per Zwiki web or always enable it. Any one would mind if \\SERVER\SHARE would always be auto-hyperlinked?

Simon, can you tell me where/how Zwiki expands URL's? Then I'll try to get it to work for UNC-shares.

Pieter

Add a comment feedback --PieterB, 2003/03/22 14:19 GMT
Sorry for duplication of the last post.

Add a comment should give the user feedback that the button is pressed (and being processed). Perhaps it's good to use a page before going back to GeneralDiscussion:#bottom. So

Zwiki UNCLinkSupport --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 16:09 GMT
Hi Pieter. Good idea. As usual it's a tradeoff, one person's useful feature is another's inexplicable surprising magical behaviour. It would be nice to have this available. You'll probably need to modify anywikilinkexpr (used by _preLink) and _renderLink (generates actual links), to start with.

proposal ideas --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 16:16 GMT
You created the UNCLinkSupport page for this proposal. To keep track of such a thing one could do any of:

proposal ideas --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 16:19 GMT
More options:

proposal ideas --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 16:28 GMT

Re: UNCLinkSupport proposal ideas and SiteStats --PieterB, 2003/03/22 16:40 GMT
Simon,

I don't think I will create UNCLinkSupport very soon, so I like to use the UNCLinkSupport as a badge and use the backlinks function to find the information. I'll try to make the page more visible in various Zwiki places.

Something else... I've been working with AwStats? for a different project, and begin to like using advanced webstatistics tools to try to improve websites. I was thinking of good metrics for a site like zwiki:

Re: proposal ideas (and RFC and OpenQuestions?) --PieterB, 2003/03/22 17:48 GMT
I'll put UNCLinkSupport under RFC. I didn't look at the RFC-page yet and whas amazed why I missed this. Is it similar to the Plone Improvement Process (PLIP) and a leightweight Python Enhancement Proposal ( PEPs?).

For what it's worth: I'm -1 on OpenQuestions? and +1 on RFC. I think a good threading mechanism for Zwiki replaces the need for an OpenQuestions? page.

Regexps.py question --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/22 18:00 GMT
In the url string,url = r'["=]?((about|gopher|http|https|ftp|mailto|file):%s)' % (urlchars), what is the ["=]? for?

Also, do you need to validate the protocols? Wouldn't "://" be enough?

Powered by Zwiki, Zope and Python --PieterB, 2003/03/22 18:13 GMT
Hmmm... I think a lot of our Zwiki content is very usefull for Zope and Python developers who are not familar with Zwiki. How about adding a 'Powered by ZWiki, Zope and Python' to the main template? That would searchengines learn that Zwiki is related to Python and Zope. It also will increase the Google's PageRank? of Zope and Python.

Re: proposal ideas (and RFC and OpenQuestions?) --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 19:52 GMT
At present I'm -1 on OpenQuestions?, -0 on RFC (we also have ZwikiModifications and tracker issues and the zwikidevelopment project list and this discussion page).

Regexps.py question --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 20:01 GMT
Good question.. I don't remember. The cvs history might or might not tell us. We should remove it, check unit tests, and test on our sites for a few weeks.

It's worth matching the protocols since they are a small well-defined set and it reduces false positives.

Powered by Zwiki, Zope and Python --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 20:05 GMT
Good idea, add these to FrontPage if you get the urge.

Re: UNCLinkSupport proposal ideas and SiteStats --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 20:12 GMT
Re UNCLinkSupport - it's not a badge. You're not going to be marking other pages with this. Also, it's not necessary or even desirable for this to be visible in lots of places - just in the right place. Clarifying the wiki and the proposal process is the thing.

more site statistics --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 20:15 GMT
The stats you describe would be terrific. Would you need the logs, or could you work out some things from the existing webalizer pages ?

more site statistics --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 20:19 GMT
Actually, several of those could be worked out with DTML. FrontPage has some examples.

Add a comment feedback --SimonMichael, 2003/03/22 20:26 GMT
You're right, duplicate comments due to slow page saving are a problem. I like the idea of a fast-displaying, interim status page when saving is slow, if it can be made trouble-free and not slow down normal edits. (I'd rather page saves were always fast, but I don't think we can guarantee that.) comment() would be a good place to experiment. RESPONSE.write may be useful.

linking speed! --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/23 02:05 GMT
I created STXBulletTest? a while ago due to frustration with freeform linking rendering speed. I'm happy to report that page rendered quite fast today.

stuff for thought --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/23 04:42 GMT
I posted a comment at the StyleSheet? page a minor suggestion/question to how to make including a style sheet easier.

I created the BookLookup page based on previous discussion on how to implement WikiWiki's URL lookup feature. (see page parents.)

linking speed! --SimonMichael, 2003/03/23 04:59 GMT
I haven't checked it, but there should be no real difference between wiki name and freeform linking speed now.

why are pages moving around ? --SimonMichael, 2003/03/23 07:46 GMT
It's a stupid StyleSheet? trick :)

IssueTrackerZPT --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/24 21:39 GMT
I made an IssueTrackerZPT version. A few corrections are still needed, please help me with them.

jpinela, 2003/03/24 22:10 GMT

tracker confusion --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/24 22:33 GMT
I have a tracker in the main wiki and another one in a SubWiki. After upgrading my issues are mixed up and the links are wrong. I tried everything, updated the catalog, cleared it and build again, but the problem remains... Has anybody else experienced this problem also?

tracker confusion --SimonMichael, 2003/03/25 01:00 GMT
How do you mean mixed up ? Also can you give details of a link that's wrong.

Do you see problems if upgrading a single wiki ? I would hope that there's no interaction between your main and sub wikis.. but that may be a vain hope, I think subwikis tend to use the parent's catalog. If that's the problem, perhaps you need to install a catalog in the subwiki.

PageMaintainers considered harmful --SimonMichael, 2003/03/25 02:26 GMT
Does it really help ? I have started to find it actually stifling, at least in this wiki.

Perhaps it would be better for maintainers to just identify themselves and their current work on the PageMaintainers page. Less intrusive, and all visible in one place.

tracker confusion --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/25 07:18 GMT
I have a catalog in both, sub- and parent wiki, it was needed in the subwiki from the beginning. Now the SubWiki is ok, but the IssueTracker in the parentwiki shows all issues mixed. See NooWiki:IssueTrackerZPT - the parent wiki issues are noowiki related and the subwiki issues are ie. about "computing all systems", "grooveking" etc. Both catalogs were cleared and rebuilt, so i have no idea what i can try next. - AFAICS it's because the parent wiki catalog holds the pages from all subwikis also, so i should restrict him to the parent wiki (maybe have another catalog instance for all wikis?), but how to do so? Is there an option to achieve this?

ZMI madness --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/25 07:40 GMT
I'd appreciate the following change in the Zwiki file structure in the Zope-filebase: Create an own folder for all system files. - Reason: When i work a lot with them in ZMI, i have to wait too long until ZMI has loaded and displayed all the page names (>1000). Futhermore i have images with lowercase names hanging between the important files and disturbing the clearness. - This should be an easy modification, i guess. - Comments, ideas?

ZMI madness --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/25 13:31 GMT
I've created a ZwikiAdmin? page which has /manage links to all of the non-page files I edit regularly (or repeatedly), which seems to help.

HelpPage notes --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/25 14:46 GMT
* AccessKeys links were a bit off, I'm not sure if my tweek helped. (Problem: The AccessKeys page is RemoteWikiLink?'ed referenced on previous distributions of the HelpPage.)

em vs. i --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/25 14:55 GMT
StructuredText single asterisk (sp) notation for "italic" renders as the em emphasis tag, not the italics tag.

Would HTML gurus out there please advise? I set our em style to red, which misses the intent more often than not, as red is more bold than bold.

(I think I'll hack my locally running STX..but don't find that as a beneficial product solution.)

ZMI madness --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/25 14:57 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll go for it. - Even ExternalEditor links can be set. :) - Of course i had already the /manage links to the different zope instances i use, but not yet to the files. - Another possibility for convenience is keeping the main folder always open in one browser tab, of course.

But please tell me anyhow: what are the arguments about my idea? At least one would have a clear ZMI also.

ZMI madness --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/25 16:39 GMT
You can also put many your non-zwiki pages in the root folder at leave the rest to aquisition?

2003/03/26 03:22 GMT
When a user adds a comment to a wiki page, I see that their user name gets inserted as a signature, any thoughts on how to (when using it with a plone site to make that username into a link to their home page?

0.17rc1 released --SimonMichael, 2003/03/26 08:01 GMT
ReleaseNotes, still in progress but will hopefully tell you what to expect. Peace.

ZMI madness --Simon Michael, 2003/03/26 16:22 GMT

> But please tell me anyhow: what are the arguments about my idea? At
> least one would have a clear ZMI also.

If you're asking me.. I have the same problem, but I like the simplicity and natural urls. Other ideas - 1. use a btreefolder ? May not help if the problem is browser rendering speed. 2. use transparent folders ? Let us know if you do it.

Re: X_26_2320013_3b_26_2325991_3b (deleted) --Simon Michael, 2003/03/26 16:26 GMT
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> This page was deleted.

As a matter of interest.. what did that page look like ? Was it chinese or other international characters ?

HelpPage notes --Simon Michael, 2003/03/26 16:32 GMT

> * AccessKeys links were a bit off, I'm not sure if my tweek
> helped. (Problem: The AccessKeys page is RemoteWikiLink?'ed referenced on
> previous distributions of the HelpPage.)

Thanks, I'll check. Yes, HelpPage needs to work for new wikis as well as ours, since I try to reuse it as is, thanks for thinking about that.


> * The "Formatting rules in a nutshell" is very helpful but very dense,
> it could use line breaks, which I couldn't add by adding
's...

Glad it helps.. improvements welcome, but this one is supposed to be dense (compact) so you can see it all at a glance. There are plenty of rambling stx tutorials out there (no really good ones yet though).

plone user name link --Simon Michael, 2003/03/26 16:44 GMT

> When a user adds a comment to a wiki page, I see that their user name
> gets inserted as a signature, any thoughts on how to (when using it with
> a plone site to make that username into a link to their home page?

They could choose wikinames for their user names, which would link to a home page in the wiki.. which could link or redirect to their plone member area..

You could hack comment() so that instead of just the bare username, it puts a html or stx link to /Members/username in the heading.

Re: X_26_2320013_3b_26_2325991_3b (deleted) --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/26 16:52 GMT
It seemed to be primarily learning how to create a page gibberish.

What I gleaned from digest mails: 尚 馬克 羅森格 , (? ?? ???), and "erfef"

http://zwiki.org/recycle_bin/X2623200133b2623259913b

HelpPage notes --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/26 16:59 GMT
I couldn't quite get the wording for it so I haven't added it on the product HelpPage, but on my local copy I added wording in "What is this" to discern between "What is this site" and "What is this tool" The nouns being the biggest stumbling block. "site=website, service, ??" "tool=Tool, Application, Product, Environment ???"


>> but this one is supposed to be dense (compact) so you can see it all at a glance.

The removal of the funky characters was a defenite improvement.

It seems like a list in paragraph form which didn't read or scan well to me. If I was a master tweeker I'd put a half-space margin between the list items. It was a nit-pick and I'm happy to drop it. I'll post an improvement if I come up with one. I'm currently about half-way of reviewing my site's help pages, and I'll try to post a summary later at DeanGoodmanson.

Re: X_26_2320013_3b_26_2325991_3b (deleted) --Simon Michael, 2003/03/26 17:33 GMT
Ah yes, I could just look in RecycleBin?. These is actually a good international characters example, so I've salvaged it for InternationalCharactersInPageNames.

HelpPage notes --Simon Michael, 2003/03/26 17:36 GMT

> I couldn't quite get the wording for it so I haven't added it on the product
> HelpPage, but on my local copy I added wording in "What is this" to discern
> between "What is this site" and "What is this tool" The nouns being the

Yes, though I tried to avoid these details here. What did you think of Glossary ?


> The removal of the funky characters was a defenite improvement.

Yes, someone added those.


> It was a nit-pick and I'm happy to drop it. I'll post an improvement if
> I come up with one. I'm currently about half-way of reviewing my site's
> help pages,

Great. I know JordanCarswell has done some excellent help pages too.

Glossary --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/26 18:09 GMT

>> What did you think of Glossary ?

Very useful. Good example of appropriate cross-reference linking. In WikiMania? I wondered why many of the terms weren't wiki links, then quickly satisfied by the the "See" references for more information.

cleaned up ReleaseNotes some more --SimonMichael, 2003/03/26 18:25 GMT

Glossary --SimonMichael, 2003/03/26 18:30 GMT
Great. I tried to make the explanations self contained and do minimal linking - one link offering greater detail if appropriate. If it were possible without a bunch of ugly html, I'd move the links to a side margin running down the right side.

0.17rc2 released --SimonMichael, 2003/03/26 20:00 GMT
With finished release notes and fix for a product-breaking fit dependency (thanks LarryP?).

ZwikiRollout? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/26 20:30 GMT
Looking for contributors to add content and nodes to an outline I've placed at ZwikiRollout?.

If the page may not be intuitive, so please paste questions, comments, misc. at the bottom and I'll reply and integrate it accordingly.

editform what-not --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/28 03:29 GMT
Anyone considered putting "taller/shorter" buttons on the editform similar to the ZMI? The other option is to make the text box height 85% (?) of the screen--which I haven't been able to succesfully do. ...perhaps these cookies would also need to sit in UserOptions?.

Thanks for the tweeks to the most recent version. Does that TextFormattingRules page/link ship with the app?

The larger (move small tag) and "edit this page" text worked for my edit link concerns.

editform what-not --simon, 2003/03/28 15:15 GMT
Dean - TFR does not ship, I think - I tried to minimize the shipped pages to reduce maintenance. In that case the link won't appear. Good.

good article --simon, 2003/03/28 20:25 GMT
Hmm, that's good: The Warmakers Are Not Evil. They're Just Misguided - Really

turned off random margins --SimonMichael, 2003/03/29 05:19 GMT
Turned off the random page positioning in StyleSheet?.

Zwiki rocks, again... --TonyRossini, 2003/03/29 06:22 GMT
I just spent time redoing my WWW site (trying to get past writers' block on some papers I'm writing), and with all the docs that are available, set up mailin and a clean FAQ much faster than last time (a few hours, rather than a few days). This was an upgrade from 0.9 to 0.17rc1 (with the Fix.py patch).

It just rocks for research support.

Zwiki rocks, again... --SimonMichael, 2003/03/29 08:45 GMT
Hi Tony.. that is great to hear, thanks for posting (inspired me to update WikiMail).

PieterB, 2003/03/29 16:16 GMT
Just created a ZopeRoadmap? page listing current Zope developments within the community. I moved the old stuff to ZopeRoadmapArchive?.

zope roadmap --SimonMichael, 2003/03/29 16:22 GMT
Nice!

A Challenge --2003/03/29 16:46 GMT
I have a challenge for y'all...

I am using zope/zwiki and latexwiki to create my Notes pages. (Please do not add that link to your list of wiki's because my server cannot handle much load -- rendering latex is very CPU-intensive) Soon (Sept 1) I will change jobs and will be spending a lot of time on the train, where I will probably want to add lots of new nodes to my Notes. (I plan to read physics papers on the train, and of course, make notes)

So the challenge is this: I want to set up some kind of disconnected operation so that I can modify the pages on my laptop, and synchronize with the main server once I get to my office/home. Disconnected editing of zwiki nodes isn't enough, I want to be able to commit it and see the latex rendered on my laptop, thus I will need the entire zope/zwiki/latexwiki infrastructure running on my laptop. I will be the only person doing any editing so conflicts shouldn't be a problem, in principle.

So...any suggestions? Does anything similar exist already?

Zope-dev, new install mechanism --PieterB, 2003/03/29 19:05 GMT
Hi Fred and Chris,

I've read some of the zope-dev thread's on the new install mechanism (e.g. http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2003-March/019053.html ). I wonder if it's possible to check the Python stacksize during installation of Zope as well (just like the 2Gb-limit is tested). This might make the default install more robust on platforms such as FreeBSD?/AIX.

See http://www.zwiki.org/PatchPython213 for a description of the Python stacksize problem. I don't know if the problem still exists on Python 2.2 and FreeBSD?/AIX.

PieterB

(I'm not subscribed to the zope-dev mailinglist, therefore sending it directly to you, and cc'ing to the Zwiki community because that FreeBSD? bug caused a lot of problems there).

Re: Zope-dev, new install mechanism --PieterB, 2003/03/29 19:45 GMT
I'll see what I can do. That would probably be after Zope 2.7 alpha is released. Is there a timeframe for the Zope 2.7 release?

Chris wrote:
> Hi Pieter,
>
> This patch should be merged in to Python, but until it is, if you send
> me a way to check for the stack size, I can put it in the script. I
> don't use BSD so I can't come up with one myself.

Python / freebsd patch --PieterB, 2003/03/29 20:23 GMT
Hi Bob,

I saw that your Python patch for FreeBSD? is automatically applied to the FreeBSD? ports as of 6/2/2003. Do you think it's possible to write a Python/C program to check the stack size? That would make it possible to check for that during a Zope install.

I'm not familar with writing Pthreads applications.

Please discuss this at Zwiki's GeneralDiscussion or at zope-dev mailinglist.

Thanks,

PieterB

A Challenge --SimonMichael, 2003/03/30 19:17 GMT
Hi.. it sounds like you want to run a zope+zwiki+latexwiki installation on your laptop, with the full up-to-date wiki installed locally. Edit on the train, then when you are connected again, copy your updated wiki pages to the online zope server with ZSyncer. This won't be smart about merging simultaneous changes, but if it's just you editing that should be fine.

As for performance, I expect LatexWiki doesn't do pre-rendering like the newer code - this would perform much better. If you post a url for the latex wiki rendering code here I might be able to suggest an update.

Re: A Challenge --2003/03/30 19:32 GMT

Ah ZSyncer! That's what I need! Thanks!

LatexWiki is http://latexwiki.rootnode.com. It does caching of rendered images, but I'm not sure about pre-rendering.

BTW the email gateway is bouncing my replies...

SearchBoxExperiment? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/31 04:29 GMT
Implementing a "search titles and jump if there's a match" checkbox on my header didn't work in a subwiki (cataloged), but did in the "root" wiki (not cataloged.)

It worked in the root and sub here at Zwiki, both cataloged. Guess I need to upgrade. :-)

A Challenge --SimonMichael, 2003/03/31 16:04 GMT
latexwiki.rootnode.com is dead. Re your bounced replies - they tell you why, but it's buried in the cruft.

SearchBoxExperiment? --SimonMichael, 2003/03/31 16:04 GMT
Guess the updated pageWith* methods have helped out there.

A Challenge --2003/03/31 16:31 GMT
I have posted to GeneralDiscussion before via email (in Jan). The bounce says I am not authorized to post, yet I am subscribed and the email is the same.

We discussed the LatexWiki stuff briefly in Jan, but anyway if you want to take a look I have placed the code on my server: http://mcelrath.org/LatexWiki.bob.20030331.tar.gz

RFC: release branches, cvs, renaming product directory --SimonMichael, 2003/03/31 16:42 GMT
I forgot we were in prerelease mode and checked in a bunch of new stuff after rc2. I think it's time to use branches for releases, so development can continue uninterrupted on the trunk. So I think my next steps should be:

Also, limi pointed out that CVSRepository checkout is complicated unnecessarily by having a cvs module name (zwiki) different from the checked out directory name (ZWiki). This can create confusion for, eg, people checking out with Tortoise CVS. So, the cvs module name should probably change to ZWiki (How ?).

Having come this far, should I take the opportunity to change ZWiki directory to the preferred Zwiki spelling ? Or, accept that it will be Products/ZWiki for ever ? Ie instead of Products/ZWiki we would have Products/Zwiki. See, no gratuitous wiki spelling, like Products/Localizer, Products/Formulator, etc. How difficult and/or painful would this be, both in the cvs repository and on the zope side ? Consequences ?

RFC: release branches, cvs, renaming product directory --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/31 16:50 GMT

>> Having come this far, should I take the opportunity to change ‘ZWiki’ directory to the preferred ‘Zwiki’ spelling

If you need to make many changes, go ahead with Zwiki.

I'm not sure what problems there would be product side. I see this as an opportunity to denote a major version change, and potentially the ability to upgrade in parrallel? Freezope won't upgrade from 0.9.0 due to end-user complications. Could they then install 0.17.0 and that could be used at Zwiki and deprecating (without forcing immediate update/object fixing) from ZWiki as 0.9.0?