forgotten lines in release 0.18 --ArnoPucher, 2003/06/01 12:29 GMT
I just upgraded one of my !Zwiki's and noticed missing lines in the wiki templates. See UpgradeGuide?

header's hierarchy.in links' titles? --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/06/01 16:26 GMT
Just an idea, but maybe quite expensive: Show in titles of links the header's hierarchy.

Zwiki 0.19 released --Simon Michael, 2003/06/02 00:10 GMT
Zwiki version 0.19.0 has been released. (There was no release candidate this month due to limited connectivity while travelling.)

Summary: Preliminary reStructured Text support, page types cleanup, skin bugfixes, customizable issue colours.

More information: http://zwiki.org/ReleaseNotes , http://zwiki.org/KnownIssues , http://zwiki.org

Download: http://zope.org/Members/simon/ZWiki/ZWiki-0.19.0.tgz

Best wishes, --Simon

forgotten files ? --ArnoPucher, 2003/06/02 06:42 GMT
See UpgradeGuide?

... --2003/06/02 12:40 GMT
I see that plain text rendering is not an option in current Zwiki.

What is recommended as an alternative?

Thanks
Kent

... --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 12:21 GMT

>I see that plain text rendering is not an option in current Zwiki.

Yes, though you can enable it with an allowed_page_types folder property (see Defaults.py). But you can also just use a ::-quote in STX or RST modes (double colon + blank line + your text indented). In WWML mode I think indenting is sufficient.

Extension to IssueTracker --ArnoPucher, 2003/06/03 12:35 GMT
How about adding another Category for the IssueTracker: People ?

To store some kind of responsiblity for issues we now encode responsibility in the header by including an emplyee in the title. F.i. "Fix very strange Itembug (AP)" showing me (ArnoPucher) is responsible for the bug.

How about including an own Property "Responsible" to the Tracker ?

Extensionproposal for IssueTracker --ArnoPucher, 2003/06/03 12:35 GMT
How about adding another Category for the IssueTracker: People ?

To store some kind of responsiblity for issues we now encode responsibility in the header by including an emplyee in the title. F.i. "Fix very strange Itembug (AP)" showing me (ArnoPucher) is responsible for the bug.

How about including an own Property "Responsible" to the Tracker ?

forgotten line in standard_zwiki_footer --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 12:37 GMT
Arno wrote:
>in the release 0.18 there has been forgotten to place the line::

etc. Thanks.. can I ignore these now that standard_wiki_footer is gone ?

Version Information Suggestion --ArnoPucher, 2003/06/03 12:39 GMT
How about adding a kind of version information for the delivered "application files" like standard_wiki_header, IssueTracker.dtml etc.

an added:

  <!-- ZWiki Release 0.18.RC0 -->

would be quite nice ... so during an upgrade there would no need for a check using a text compare tool

Also a kind of change log would be nice ...

workaround for AUTHENTICATE_USER == "AnonymousUser" bug? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 12:41 GMT

>I can't seem to get any pieces of forms working on my local ZWiki that
>depend on checking roles. (For instance: the manage-page panel)

It's AUTHENTICATED_USER - typo ?


>I can see them here on zwiki.org fine. (Although when I spawned a
>BillSeitzTempPage? and tried to rename it, I got a Memory Error!)

Yes rename (plus updating links) is quite prone to grabbing more memory than we are allowed here on zwiki.org.

canonicalUrl choices --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 12:51 GMT
Bill wrote:
>But why (a) get rid of underscores, and (b) push initial capitalization?

I strip out all punctuation. This is easy to understand and means you don't have to get punctuation right in freeform links (good for non-techies I felt).

Capitalizing the words means freeform page's ids tend to be wiki names, so either form of link will often work. I think this is a nice property.

canonicalUrl - migration of old pages? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 12:54 GMT

>Is there any sneaky code someplace to re-id old pages to their canonical form?

not sure if I sent this reply: yes, see upgradeId() & upgradeAll(). I think there are some practical tips in the release notes.

last_log questions... --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 12:56 GMT
Dean - yes, I have added last_log to the catalog metadata on zwiki.org. (I don't index it, since I don't search on it).

ZwikiPlonesSkin? and metal --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 13:02 GMT

>I just started with ZwikiAndPlone and am checking the zwiki_plone skin right
>now. (I want to add the PageManagementPanel? to the footer.) - I wondered why
>the wikipage.pt doesn't use a macro with slots, any ideas? Forgive me if this

Hi Florian, I don't know. Limi carried on from my straight conversion from the default skin, which inherits it's structure from the old DTML methods. I think I made an early decision not to chop the skin up in to too many pieces, since it would slow down editing, I didn't know what the perfect structure should be, and other things were more urgent. It may be advantageous to keep a similar structure for the default and zwiki_plone skins to ease keeping them in sync.

Add Summary metatype to Zwiki? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 13:05 GMT

>entries extremely long for large pages. Seems like there ought to be a
>metatype called summary for Zwiki pages that encapsulated the content for a
>particular page. Wouldn't that be useful in other places besides BlogFace as
>well?

Yes.. I thought I added a method for it when I tried blogface. Might have been a dtml method. I derived it from the text, rather than having to maintain a separate summary property .

Extensionproposal for IssueTracker --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/03 13:39 GMT
I've added a "contact" field but have yet to see full social impact.

CSV Fit Tests? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/04 15:41 GMT
http://vsbabu.org/mt/archives/2003/06/03/csv_to_ascii_grid.html

Searching on last_log --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/04 16:18 GMT
I'm strugging to make the (quick) connection to search based on last_log.

Essentially I'd like to build an RSSFeed? or RecentChanges? view that only lists items with a last_log entry. Catalog query expected. Manual OK, but not optimal. Conditiongin < dtml-if last_log within the dtml-in works, but leaves a dynamic list of entries, where I would like "the last 10 noted changes", as a way to filter out minor edits, thus giving the subject and Note fields a "major edit" spotlight, leaving minor tweeks in the shadows.

... Upgrade Problem --Mark Bronstein 2003/06/04 21:43 GMT
After upgrading to Zwiki .19 (and Plone 1.02) when I try to edit any wiki page I get an error message indicating that Zope is choking on a variable called "is_issue". It looks like editform.pt is throwing an exception when it reaches the code to display the page type listbox. the specific problem seems to be the phrase: "tal:condition no:is_issue" in the select tag.

I could find no such variable mentioned anywhere, but there does seem to be on called isIssue which is IssueTracker related. I tried changing the reference to isIssue but it didnt help. Has anyone else experienced this or have an idea how to fix? TIA, Mark

... --2003/06/05 05:22 GMT
zwiki_plone

Add a single line. Here is the diff.

less editform.pt.diff 109,111c109 <

< ---
>

... --2003/06/05 05:25 GMT
sorry.

To fix is_issue problem, you can either remove zwiki_plone in your skin (Plone) or add a line at line 109 of editform.pt of zwiki_plone

tal:define="is_issue python:here.page_type == 'issuedtml'">

is_issue problem --SimonMichael, 2003/06/05 11:22 GMT
I missed this change in the zwiki_plone skin.. I believe the correct fix is just to remove the tal:condition attribute referring to "is_issue", in skins/zwiki_plone/editform.pt. Fixed for 0.20, thanks.

is_issue problem --Mark Bronstein, 2003/06/05 12:35 GMT
That's exactly what I had done as a temporary fix so I know it works. Many thanks for your prompt response!

really necessary to re-build Python on FreeBSD?? --BillSeitz, 2003/06/05 20:31 GMT
Since upgrading from a nice stable old version of code last night, my server has been truly hosed. It looks like I'm facing [IssueNo0226]?

Do I really have to go through that crap of recompiling python with the tweaked Python/thread_pthread.h file?

Even more weirdly, Jon at iMeme says he's already put that patch into the default python...

launching http://www.wikilogs.com --BillSeitz, 2003/06/05 20:52 GMT
As part of my wiki cult, I decided people need a tech-free way to run a wikilog. So I took my customized stuff and put it up. I think I've given back any of the substantive changes already by posting here, but (a) they're not in CVS, since I don't think this approach is for everyone, and (b) there might be something I skipped, let me know if there's something you want for your use.

... --2003/06/05 20:55 GMT
No you don't need to. Bill.

Just change that line in editform.pt at line 109... ChaluKim? Pretty minor change. Also there is a problem with backlink consisting of letters and numbers and special characters. Parents.py needs to be fixed. That is where I stopped. I just rename them without special characters.

huh? --BillSeitz, 2003/06/05 23:03 GMT
Chalu, I'm not sure I'm looking at the same editform that you are - what's the content of that line? And what specifically is broken in Parents.py?

(This stuff seems to run OK on my laptop, but that's a different OS.

Version Information Suggestion --Simon Michael, 2003/06/06 08:04 GMT

>How about adding a kind of version information for the delivered "application
>files" like standard_wiki_header, IssueTracker.dtml etc.

I did that in standard_error_message.dtml.

It seems to complicate maintenance a bit and I don't yet see the scenario where it helps a lot.


>would be quite nice ... so during an upgrade there would no need for a check
>using a text compare tool

When do you need to do that ? In my imagination, someone with custom templates in their zodb 1. upgrades the zwiki product, and 2. upgrades the template only if it breaks (or if the release notes describe desirable changes).

Searching on last_log --Simon Michael, 2003/06/06 08:12 GMT

>Essentially I'd like to build an RSSFeed? or RecentChanges? view that only
>lists items with a last_log entry. Catalog query expected. Manual OK, but
>not optimal. Conditiongin < dtml-if last_log within the dtml-in works, but
>leaves a dynamic list of entries, where I would like "the last 10 noted
>changes", as a way to filter out minor edits, thus giving the subject and Note

Catalog(last_log=(non-empty)) eh ? I don't know..

launching http://www.wikilogs.com --SimonMichael, 2003/06/06 08:28 GMT
Go Bill! I'm very interested.

14-day pack --SimonMichael, 2003/06/06 09:25 GMT
531 -> 248Mb.

really necessary to re-build Python on FreeBSD?? --PieterB, 2003/06/06 19:59 GMT

> Since upgrading from a nice stable old version of code last night, my server
> has been truly hosed. It looks like I'm facing
> [IssueNo0226]?


> Do I really have to go through that crap of recompiling python with the

I've changed the PatchPython213 page a bit. The fix is automatically applied if you installed Python 2.1.3 using the ports after Feb 2003.


> Even more weirdly, Jon at iMeme says he's already put that patch into
> the default python

The only possible explanation I can think of is that Zwiki or your site requires a higher stacksize, than Python's default (even if it is higher than before).

PieterB

Tips --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/07 04:10 GMT

Request for collaboration on ZwikiTips. Discussion at WikiTipsDiscussion?.

trying patch make extract per PatchPython213 --BillSeitz, 2003/06/07 23:51 GMT
And it says:

 bad value or PYTHON_VERSION: python2.1. Use one of python1.5, python1.6 or python2.0 (default)... Error code 1

finally got it working --BillSeitz, 2003/06/08 03:47 GMT
IMeme? needed to give me a new CVS base directory. Then I went through, after bumping the stack size from 17 to 20. I'll report back on whether it bought me stability.

Freezope zwiki upgrade --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/08 17:19 GMT
I think we've touched on the possibilty of this migration stategy before,but fresh insight would be appreciated:

"An alternative may be to install the new ZWiki next to the old one (Possibly by "casting" the old wiki to zwiki-old) and have people migrate content themself." - http://lists.amaze.nl/pipermail/discussion/2003-June/000754.html

We talked about that during making major changes on the road to 1.0, and I got the feeling it wouldn't work.

Freezope zwiki upgrade - possible strategy --SimonMichael, 2003/06/09 09:29 GMT
Here's what I'm doing for a big impactful upgrade: I duplicated my zope instance and set it running on another port. I upgraded products in the new instance (zope, plone, zwiki etc). Now I am previewing, upgrading and/or deleting & re-creating each site on the new server. As I get each one right, I configure apache to proxy that virtual host to the new server instead of the old one. Once I get all sites working on the new server, or close enough, the old one will go away.

Freezope zwiki upgrade - possible strategy --SimonMichael, 2003/06/09 09:33 GMT
But a much simpler plan would be to announce "in one month we will upgrade to the latest zwiki, please be prepared for changes described in the ReleaseNotes, and update/remove your custom skins if necessary." and just do it.

really necessary to re-build Python onFreeBSD? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/09 09:48 GMT

>The only possible explanation I can think of is that Zwiki or your
>site requires a higher stacksize, than Python's default (even if it is
>higher than before).

That was the case for me.

GeneralDiscussion patching python for stack size on freebsd --PieterB, 2003/06/09 16:22 GMT
Hi Bill,

I've just updated http://zwiki.org/PatchPython213 to reflect the changes that the patches are now distributed through the ports collection itself. Do you (and Simon) use the files/zwiki.patch as well?

Pieter

patching python for stack size on freebsd --SimonMichael, 2003/06/09 17:03 GMT
Sorry Pieter, don't remember - the procedure that I used is near the bottom of IssueNo0226? .

Squashing bugs... --PieterB, 2003/06/11 11:02 GMT
Hi,

Just trying to clear out the Zwiki tracker a bit. Today i concentrated on the open zwiki.org bugs using FilterIssues:

Squashed: #284 the google search form on SearchPage seems to be broken I created a custom Google search for Zwiki (with a nice icon). See SearchPage? for example.

#23 page needed: overview of WaysToOrganizeAWiki closed, see BestPractices and GardeningPolicy

Added comment:

#519 mailing list sending two copies of comments ?

#68 delete the zwiki lists at yahoogroups and freelists

Had a new whishlist entry:

#531 showing bug severity and bug status (open/closed) in freeform links

Unfortuately found a new zwiki bug:

#530 change tracker issue requires username in cookie set

Squashing bugs... --SimonMichael, 2003/06/11 14:10 GMT
Good work! Thanks for the summary.

patching python for FreeBSD? problem --BillSeitz, 2003/06/11 21:18 GMT
I've posted my log of patching at WebSeitzWiki:ZwikiFreebsdStabilityProblems - when I look now I find that zwiki.patch file, so I assume it was used during the make-install. The problem hasn't gone away still - I've included a log of when crashes occur.

Stabilityproblems for FreeBSD? --PieterB, 2003/06/11 22:01 GMT
Have you tried increasing to more than <<20.

I think Simon did some clean up in the regexp's (often responsible for the stack overflow), somewhere around 0.17. Did you try Zwiki 0.19 or Zwiki CVS?

Have you tried using other Zope versions? (e.g. Zope 2.6.2b2, perhaps even with Python 2.2.3)

Have a look at the following Google hits.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Aiieee!+%22exited+with+error+code%22+zope+cvs&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

They might give a clue of what is going on. Have you looked at SiteReliability page?

It would be great if this bug is squashed forever.

BTW. I'm no expert on this, but just trying to help.

Grr.. i'm getting proxy errors on zwiki again...

Version Information Suggestion --PieterB, 2003/06/11 22:33 GMT

> >How about adding a kind of version information for the delivered "application
> >files" like
> I did that in standard_error_message.dtml.

-1


> It seems to complicate maintenance a bit and I don't yet see the scenario
> where it helps a lot.

+1. Version control should not be done within the file itself. That makes the files unreadable (and they are pretty difficult already).

If a person changes the templates/other files, he/she is responsible for upgrading manually. It's not very difficult, just keep an original backup of the changed file, and after upgrading diff that with the new default version and make the appropriate changes.

PieterB

bumped my stack to 24 --BillSeitz, 2003/06/11 23:00 GMT
I'd been thinking the same thing, and decided to give it a try while looking in more detail. I'll take a look at the monitoring recommmendations in SiteReliability. Crashes definitely have been triggered by pages with lots of regexps, like my FrontPage. (At least that was the case when I first discovered the problem post-upgrade.)

Extension to IssueTracker --PieterB, 2003/06/11 23:01 GMT

> How about adding another Category for the IssueTracker: People ?

I wouldn't call it People or Contact. I think the property Assigned to and Opened by is more appropriate. I really would suggest using a pulldownbox instead of a free text field, and the possible users can be set in the source code of the issue tracker.

I don't think it's needed on zwiki.org because most work is done by Simon. Maybe be able to filter jobs which Simon thinks that are for the Community, and things he would like to fix himself ;)

PHP-project has a similar kind of property, but is quite strict (and non-logical) to who is authorised to change the field. In the wiki way I wouldn't be strict about allowing people to change the properties (other than the default of only be allowed to change if you have filled in your username).

An alternative would be to be able to select others to be interested ("subscribed") to a page or issue. E.g. if user A "assign's" issue/page Y to user B, user B get's subscribed to issue/page Y with a special status "request for assignment". B get's a notification (either by mail or when he opens a wikipage), and is able to accept/decline the subscription request. The issue/page would list all the subscribers (with their status (assigned, interested, request for assignment, declined, etc). This mechanism would be really cool, but also be quite complex.

Enough, wiki effort for one day, I'm off to bed.

Pieter

FreeBSD? SiteReliability --PieterB, 2003/06/11 23:05 GMT
Note, that you can easily stresstest Zope/Zwiki by using Apache's ab

Extension to IssueTracker --John_Knutson, 2003/06/11 23:21 GMT

Pieter,

I like your alternative approach, though I'd be happy with a far less than a complete version of the solution that you propose for the problem that I have

What I'd like is to be able to do is to be able to have users subscribe to a category. Whenever an issue changes to or from a category, emailToSubscrbers would look for a page with the category name and pick up the list of page subscribers from that page. How difficult would that be?

Cheers, JohnKnutson Candle Corporation

Re: GeneralDiscussion FreeBSD? SiteReliability --PieterB, 2003/06/11 23:21 GMT
small test, to see if this mail gets threaded in mailman's archive.

Re: GeneralDiscussion FreeBSD? SiteReliability (attempt 2) --PieterB, 2003/06/11 23:33 GMT
Hmm... Why didn't my previous (web) post, didn't appear in the mailman archive? It might be because of JohnKnuton?'s simultane post or because I use brackets in the subject name: [GeneralDisussion]. I'm trying to see if there is a way to let mailman know I'm replying to a certain post/thread. It would be great if mailman's archive has a working threading view. Maybe we can create a Reply button/link/picture for each post that will will be used as a (hidden) field to sets the In-reply-to header and fills in the subject for you (with Re: in front), so that threading is possible.

Simon, can you explain what is going on with the previous post?

Help --Jim Watkins, 2003/06/12 07:39 GMT
Hello,

I just installed ZWiki on my plone site and I can't figure out how to get it to work at all. I am stuck. How do you create pages and then make links to them in other pages? I really can't do anything other than edit the pages that came with the install. I looked through all kinds of documentation, but didn't see anything to describe how these things are done. Thanks for any help

MailHost page was causing problems --SimonMichael, 2003/06/12 08:11 GMT
Good morning.. a MailHost page had been created, breaking mail-out (known issue) and web comments have not been getting mailed out since monday. I deleted the page but haven't fixed the cause of the problem. We could: use self.folder().MailHost unless it's not a real mailhost object, in which case use self.folder().aq_parent.MailHost. Better ideas ?

Help --SimonMichael, 2003/06/12 08:15 GMT
Jim - sorry, your message was stuck in the mailing list approval queue. I expect you figured this out, if not let us know if HelpPage helps.

Version Information Suggestion --Simon Michael, 2003/06/12 08:55 GMT
PieterB <pieterb@gewis.nl> writes:
> +1. Version control should not be done within the file itself. That
> makes the files unreadable (and they are pretty difficult already).

I wouldn't go that far.. I don't see how a small embedded version number impacts readability of skin templates. People embed cvs version numbers in source files all the time.

If there's a way to do this without over-complicated maintenance, and it allows us to provide better diagnostics/troubleshooting support, I'd be in favour.

bumped my stack to 24 --SimonMichael, 2003/06/12 09:17 GMT
Bill - it took me a long time to get this right.. some dumb suggestions: be sure your custom python has built successfully, and be sure that's the one zope is using. I named mine python.bigstack so I could verify this with top or ps. Ideally we would have a simple crasher script which you could use to test python at the command line, apart from zope. I haven't noticed an aiee crash here since going to 1<<20, so I'd be surprised if you needed more than that. If you'd like to meet on #zwiki later, give me some likely times to find you there.

Extension to IssueTracker --Simon Michael, 2003/06/12 09:39 GMT
PieterB <pieterb@gewis.nl> writes:
> Assigned to and Opened by is more appropriate. I really would
> suggest using a pulldownbox instead of a free text field, and the
> possible users can be set in the source code of the issue tracker.

PS - we already have the creator property (a freeform string). Maybe adding assigned to would be sufficient. An issue_assignees folder property could be used to define the pulldown selection menu. Is there some way it could figure out the possible assignees itself ? Look up all the creators of issue pages and list them ? (ie, once you've created an issue you're considered eligible as an assignee).

Or, list assignees on a wiki page; this may be the most convenient.

yay --Simon Michael, 2003/06/12 09:46 GMT
I got my laptop connectivity problem solved (MRU negotiation wasn't working).

Also, I see GUADEC is on in Dublin next week. Yay! I'm going.

bumped my stack to 24 --SimonMichael, 2003/06/12 10:02 GMT
PS - one of the things that confused me was that I would start zope with my custom python, but later it would get restarted by the imeme scripts with the stock python (due to hitting memory quota, etc). Be sure to make /usr/local/zope/instance/zope_start use your custom python.

GeneralDiscussion next generation --PieterB, 2003/06/12 14:54 GMT
I've created a mockup/prototype for a (client-side) JavaScript method to sort the messages in a discusion. See http://gewis.nl/~pieterb/zope/zwiki-general-discussion-ng.html for a demo. The html needs to be cleaned up, and I only tested it on IE yet.

The application (e.g. Zwiki or Plone), must create the list of messages (var messages) and the list of parents (var parents) on server-side. The rest of the sorting is done on the client (O(n)=n*n). Something like this would require that each message gets an id, and possible a parent. A scheme for storing might be to use something similar to mailheaders, e.g.

Message: 1
Subject: bumped my stack to 24
Author: BillSeitz
Date: 2003/06/11 23:00 GMT

I'd been thinking the same thing, and decided to give it a try while looking in more detail. I'll take a look at the monitoring recommmendations in SiteReliability. Crashes definitely have been triggered by pages with lots of regexps, like my FrontPage. (At least that was the case when I first discovered the problem post-upgrade.)

Message: 2 Parent: 1 Subject: Re: bumped my stack to 24 Author: SimonMichael Date: 2003/06/12 10:02 GMT

PS - one of the things that confused me was that I would start zope with my custom python, but later it would get restarted by the imeme scripts with the stock python (due to hitting memory quota, etc). Be sure to make /usr/local/zope/instance/zope_start use your custom python.

This uses "\n\nMessage: .*" as a seperator for messages.

Thoughts?

GeneralDiscussion next generation --SimonMichael, 2003/06/12 17:02 GMT
Wow! Great! Seems to work in firebird too.

Are you reading my mind, or did you see what I did this morning ? I started some work in this area but on the server side. I'm thinking to store comments as rfc822-ish messages, as on TestPage. Think "wiki page with an mbox mail folder added". The render method parses this message store and could display messages in whatever kind of format we want (just looks like standard wiki comments at the moment). Slashdot nested style.. pipermail threaded index style..

Whatever, we should be able to do some neat things together with your javascript on the client.

GeneralDiscussion next generation --SimonMichael, 2003/06/12 17:15 GMT
PS what I'm trying to figure out right now is how to handle message ids and named anchors for comments. I think

  • real Message-id: headers should be allowed in the page source. When present these can be used for reply headers.
  • a Message-id header should not be required ? In this case it would be implicit in the Date and page url, generated if needed, but no need to add clutter to the page source.

    alternative: include a Message-id header with every comment, generating it for web comments.

  • use the message ids for the named anchors (allowing per-comment urls) ? But I'm not sure if message ids will work in urls without a lot of quoting. Perhaps we'd rather have #msg1, #msg2 etc. These should generally remain attached to the same comments. Cf PurpleNumbers perhaps.

GeneralDiscussion next generation --PieterB, 2003/06/12 20:17 GMT

> PS what I'm trying to figure out right now is how to handle message ids and
> named anchors for comments. I think What about using somekind of YYYYMMDDMMSSXX scheme for MessageID?'s. I wouldn't use standard e-mail MessageId?'s (too long). Maybe the following routing is appropriate

E-mail -> "ZwikiMailIn" -> Zwiki
                        -> Mailman

Web -> "CreateMessageId" -> Zwiki -> Mailman

"ZwikiMailIn?" simplifies MessageId?'s from e-mails and take care that In-reply-to headers get saved.

RFC8222 would be great!


> - a Message-id header should not be required ? In this case it would be
> implicit in the Date and page url, generated if needed, but no need to add
> clutter to the page source. Great Idea


> - use the message ids for the named anchors (allowing per-comment urls) ? But
> I'm not sure if message ids will work in urls without a lot of quoting.
> Perhaps we'd rather have #msg1, #msg2 etc. These should generally remain
> attached to the same comments. Cf PurpleNumbers perhaps.

maybe HTML/DIV/ID's don't like full number MessageId?'s so they might be prepended by a letter/string.

Can't wait to have this running... Unfortuately no time because a lot of deadlines get closer each day.

Pieter

bumping stack didn't help --BillSeitz, 2003/06/13 13:03 GMT
and when I try:

 ps -maxwO vsize |grep /usr/local/zope |grep -v grep |awk '{print $2}'|sort -nr 

I get response bash: awk{print $2}: command not found

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

(journal of my activities, and dump of appropriate log lines, at WebSeitzWiki:ZwikiFreebsdStabilityProblems)

ah, got memory snapshot, kinda --BillSeitz, 2003/06/13 13:07 GMT
had left out the space after awk

Not getting exact output, but do get :

 57380
7764
5144
2512

I know the idea is to have a series of snapshots, but does this first snap mean anything to anyone?

memory snapshot --SimonMichael, 2003/06/13 13:58 GMT
Yes.. it means your biggest zope process is using 57 megabytes, well within the imeme 100Mb limit. This tells more:

 ps -maxwO vsize |grep zope |grep -v grep |sort -nr +1

While growing to that 100Mb limit can also cause restarts, that's a different problem (it produces "out of memory" errors, not "aieee!").

I've uploaded my python binary over on IssueNo0226? . Worth a try ?

memory snapshot --SimonMichael, 2003/06/13 14:19 GMT
Also, as a matter of interest when is the crash triggered ? On viewing your FrontPage ? When you change it ? What's the url ? Have you modified any of zwiki's regular expressions ?

I think you know that once you've got around issue 226 by increasing the stacksize, the operation may still fail, but zope will keep running and you'll see error traces like on IssueNo0395? . It doesn't sound like you're at that point yet.

I would most suspect that zope is not running the right python, somehow. If you can't think of anything else to do and want a sanity check that this is the problem we think it is, you can narrow down the crashing point by inserting DLOG statements here and there in the zwiki code and watching the log. The two places noted on issue 395 would be the most likely spots.


comments:

smarter comments enabled, check it out --SimonMichael, 2003/06/13 15:36 GMT reply
For testing, I've enabled the new-style comments in all the page types used on this site. Old comments are not affected; new comments (like this one) will be stored in rfc2822-ish format and displayed with a bookmarkable comment number. Also a horizontal rule with named anchor "#comments" is displayed between document and discussion parts.

Questions:

  • migration strategy
    • page types ? I think another page type rename is in order - add "msg" to the page type names and auto-upgrade to the new types
    • old comments ? currently the horizontal rule and number 1 start after the last old comment. Convert all old comments to rfc822 format when auto-upgrading ? Don't bother ?

deprecating some things --SimonMichael, 2003/06/13 15:52 GMT reply
Zwiki has been python 1.5-compatible since the beginning, so as to work on all zope versions. Though I like this compatibility, I feel this may be the right time to start requiring python 2.1. This means Zwiki 0.20 and up will require zope 2.4 (?) or greater. Any comments ?

Also, 0.19's upgrade notes should have been a bit more verbose. I deprecated a bunch of page types, auto-upgrading them all to the latest types. In case you're wondering, Zwiki's current list of known page types looks like this:

    PAGE_TYPES = {
        'rstprelinkfitissue': 'RST + wiki links + fit tests + issue',
        'stxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml':
            'STX + wiki links + DTML + fit tests + issue + HTML',
        'msgstxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml':
            'Messages + STX + wiki links + DTML + fit tests + issue + HTML',
        'stxprelinkfitissuehtml':
            'STX + wiki links + fit tests + issue + HTML',
        'stxprelinkfitissue':
            'Structured text + wiki links + fit tests + issue',
        'wwmlprelinkfitissue':
            'WikiWikiWeb markup + wiki links + fit tests + issue',
        'dtmlhtml':           'DTML + HTML',
        'html':               'HTML',
        'plaintext':          'plain text',
        #'wwmlprelink':       'WikiWikiWeb markup + wiki links',#deprecated
        #'stxprelinkhtml':     'STX + wiki links + HTML',    # deprecated
        #'stxprelinkdtmlhtml': 'STX + links + DTML + HTML',  # deprecated
        #'stxdtmllinkhtml':    'STX + DTML + links + HTML',  # deprecated
        #'dtmlstxlinkhtml':    'DTML + STX + links + HTML',  # deprecated
        #'stxlinkhtml':        'STX + links + HTML',         # deprecated
        #'stxlink':            'STX + links',                # deprecated
        #'wwmllink':           'WikiWikiWeb markup + links', # deprecated
        #'prelinkdtmlhtml':    'links + DTML + HTML',        # deprecated
        #'dtmllinkhtml':       'DTML + links + HTML',        # deprecated
        #'prelinkhtml':        'links + HTML',               # deprecated
        #'linkhtml':           'links + HTML',               # deprecated
        #'textlink':           'text + links',               # deprecated
        #'issuedtml':          'old issue page type',        # deprecated
        }

The render_ methods for all the deprecated types are still in 0.19, but they should no longer be needed since all those pages will auto-upgrade to a newer type. They're not causing a problem except I'd like to remove them for clarity, let me know if you see any problems.

simpler user-visible page types --Simon Michael, 2003/06/13 16:57 GMT reply
In 0.19, here are the page types that appear in the edit form (if allowed). These are mnemonic for someone wondering just what rules are being applied. "Messages +" is due to be added to these:

 RST + wiki links + fit tests + issue
 STX + wiki links + DTML + fit tests + issue + HTML
 STX + wiki links + fit tests + issue + HTML
 Structured text + wiki links + fit tests + issue
 WikiWikiWeb markup + wiki links + fit tests + issue
 DTML + HTML
 HTML
 plain text

For 0.20 I'm thinking about simpler user-visible names. The page types seem to be stabilizing and most users shouldn't need this much detail. Also I'm not sure the non-HTML STX type is needed (non-HTML purists will probably use RST) so I'll drop that one. So I propose the edit form show (the allowed subset of):

 Structured Text
 Structured Text + DTML
 reStructured Text
 WikiWikiWeb
 HTML
 HTML + DTML
 Plain text

fresh snapshot with more params --BillSeitz, 2003/06/13 19:50 GMT reply
ps -maxwO vsize |grep zope |grep -v grep |sort -nr +1 gives:

 83036 56756  ??  SNJ    3:43.90 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/zope/2.5.1/z2.py -W 9800 -w 8080 -f 21
40804  7764  ??  SJ     1:43.29 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/zope/2.5.1/lib/python/ZEO/start.py -U /usr/local/zope/instance/var
40805  5144  ??  IsJ    0:00.13 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/zope/2.5.1/z2.py -W 9800 -w 8080 -f 21
40802  2512  ??  IsJ    0:00.00 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/zope/2.5.1/lib/python/ZEO/start.py -U /usr/local/zope/instance/var

Comments:

  • yes, I'm pretty sure the problem occurs when viewing WebSeitzWiki:FrontPage
  • yes, I make some RegExps? changes:
        #wikiname1        = r'(?L)\b[%s]+[%s]+[%s][%s]*' % (U,L,U,U+L)
        #wikiname2        = r'(?L)\b[%s][%s]+[%s][%s]*'  % (U,U,L,U+L)
        wikiname1        = r'(?L)\b[%s]+[%s]*[%s]+[%s]*' % (U,U+L+N,U,U+L+N)
        blogid     = r'(?L)\bz[%s][%s][%s][%s]-[%s][%s]-[%s][%s]-[%s]+' % (N,N,N,N,N,N,N,N,U+L+N)
    
  • when you saying "running the wrong python", do you mean that there are multiple pythons on the system and the wrong one is being used? Any idea how I would check that out?
  • Note I'm running a tweaked 0.17 - are there likely to be big benefits to upgrading some piece? Please don't say yes lightly, because it's not a small deal.

fresh snapshot with more params - got a reliable crash case ? --simon, 2003/06/14 08:30 GMT reply
That looks like my system except I also have -t 2 to limit the number of simultaneous threads to 2 (default is 4). (Reason: at a rough guess, I'd say your zope runs at around 50M when one thread is in use, grows to 80 when you get two simultaneous requests, will go up near the 100M limit if you get three, and will go over quota and restart if you get four (eg when a search engine finds you).) But I digress.

Your front page looks ok right now.. you should have a procedure which will crash it every time, this will make life a lot simpler. Editing the page may do it, or browsing a certain diff (I don't see much diff history though).

I'm not expert on this, but perhaps it's possible your regexps are more expensive than zwiki's, even to the point where this python workaround is no longer any use ? It would be a small extra data point to know if standard zwiki works for you. Once you have a reproducible crash you could test this quickly.

Yes, that's what I mean, multiple python binaries on the system. Your ps shows zope using /usr/local/bin/python, so just be certain that is the actual version with the stack patch. cd /usr/local/bin; ls -l python* ... check the timestamp ... cmp python /usr/ports/lang/python21/.../python ... run it at the prompt and check the date it prints ... try using my python.bigstack there ... etc.

Y- ok no, there haven't been any changes which would solve this problem. 0.17 is fine for the present purpose.

GeneralDiscussion next generation --simon, 2003/06/14 09:39 GMT reply
I've added rfc2822-style comment support ("messages") to the main page types (STX,RST,WWML) and fixed some issues.

You can get these in mbox-compatible format: http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion/mbox .

bug in install zwiki : "unknown locale: fr_FR@euro" --Harobed, 2003/06/14 12:07 GMT reply
I use debian sid package's of zope and zwiki.

It succesful install.

But, when I go to /Control_Panel/Products/ZWiki, I see this error :

Import Traceback Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/lib/zope/lib/python/OFS/Application.py", line 541, in import_product product=__import__(pname, global_dict, global_dict, silly) File "/usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Products/ZWiki/__init__.py", line 12, in ? import ZWikiPage, ZWikiWeb?#, CMF, Parents, Regulations File "/usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Products/ZWiki/ZWikiPage.py", line 45, in ? from Regexps import url, bracketedexpr, footnoteexpr, wikiname1, \ File "/usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Products/ZWiki/Regexps.py", line 68, in ? loc = locale.getdefaultlocale() File "/usr/lib/python2.1/locale.py", line 339, in getdefaultlocale return _parse_localename(localename) File "/usr/lib/python2.1/locale.py", line 272, in _parse_localename raise ValueError?, unknown locale: %s % localename ValueError?: unknown locale: fr_FR@euro

I would like know, what it the reason of this exception. What package ...

Thank you harobed

stability notes --BillSeitz, 2003/06/14 12:15 GMT reply
1. I've set -t 2

  1. FrontPage used to consistently kill things when it was the length I wanted. I reduced the crashing problem by (a) cutting the number of latest-items I display to 10 (from 30), (b) reducing the size of the transcluded pages in the right column: MyBlogRoll?, MyCurrentKeyPages?, etc.

which Python is running? --BillSeitz, 2003/06/14 13:54 GMT reply
Simon says: Your ps shows zope using /usr/local/bin/python

So I did:

 imeme# cat zope_start
#! /bin/sh
INSTANCE_HOME=/usr/local/zope/instance
export INSTANCE_HOME
STUPID_LOG_FILE=$INSTANCE_HOME/var/events.log
export STUPID_LOG_FILE
exec /usr/local/bin/python \
     /usr/local/zope/2.5.1/z2.py \
     -W 9800 \
     -w 8080 \
     -f 21 \
     -t 2 \
     "$@"
-----------
imeme# cd /usr/local/bin
imeme# ls -l python*
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  518908 Apr 14  2002 python
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel    1091 Oct 17  2002 python.menu
-rwxrwxrwx  1 root  wheel  469444 Jun 12  2001 python1.5
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  521428 Jun  8 02:41 python2.1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel     983 Oct 17  2002 python_installer
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel    1031 Feb 12  2002 python_upgrade
--------------
imeme# cd /usr/ports/lang/python21/work/Python-2.1.3
imeme# ls -l python*
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  611931 Jun  8 02:13 python

Duh, I also just looked at my ZMI ControlPanel?: Python version 2.1.3 (#1, Apr 14 2002, 01:34:47) (GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release) (FreeBSD?))

My guess here is that the python being run is from Apr2002, not the new one. Correct?

If that's right, should I (a) delete python and (b) copy python2.1 python?

a weirder concern --BillSeitz, 2003/06/15 11:04 GMT reply
if I changed the stack size to 24 on Jun11, then why do none of the Pythons have a Jun11 mod-date?

GeneralDiscussion next generation --PieterB, 2003/06/15 11:46 GMT reply

I've added rfc2822-style comment support ("messages") to the main page types (STX,RST,WWML) and fixed some issues. You can get these mbox-compatible format: http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion/mbox .

Note that the format you use isn't unix mbox compliant. The header/seperator should be

From zwikiuser(@zwiki.org) Sat Jun 14 10:32:51 2003 From {mailadress} {time in asctime format)

For more info, see e.g. http://www.cslab.vt.edu/manuals/mailutils-0.0.9b/html_node/mailutils_5.html

Combine "Subject" and "log" descriptions? --JordanCarswell, 2003/06/15 22:16 GMT reply
Would it be useful to make the subject entry for a comment a log entry? This way you could capture a description of the comment or the edit for an RSS feed. I've been using the log entry for my RSS feeds and it works really well as a simple description of the change to the page when checking in a news aggregator.

RE: Combine "Subject" and "log" descriptions? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/16 04:50 GMT reply

Would it be useful to make the subject entry for a comment a log entry?

Could you explain this a bit more? As far as I can tell this is the case, with the last_log var coverting both the comment subject and edit note.

Speaking of this useful field, although it may break page balance, I'm tempted to put that value nearer the action button to promote use, and when the current editor is the prior editor, pre-populate the field with the last entry for formatting tweeks. Thoughts?

copied over Python; still having problems --BillSeitz, 2003/06/16 13:59 GMT reply
see end of WebSeitzWiki:ZwikiFreebsdStabilityProblems

the process was stupidly bumpy (my fault). But I don't think that's why I'm still having problems.

(just noticed the a name for each msg on this page - very cool - see BlueOxen? PurpleNumber? activities)

... --2003/06/16 18:31 GMT reply
Changing FrontPage Title pilz.reith@surfeu.de I changed the title of the ZWiki FrontPage. But the backlink in the path did not change. a bug?

PurpleNumbers needs beta testing --2003/06/17 02:31 GMT reply
I've successfully implemented PurpleNumbers in Zwiki (see http://collaboratory.planetwork.net/wiki for working site).

Before I call this a "release" I'd like to have a few people confirm that it works as expected on their ZWiki installations. Please send me email at mike@nthwave.net to receive the new module and a short diff.

Re: Memory error --PieterB, 2003/06/17 16:30 GMT reply
Andy wrote @zope-dev

MemoryError?: (Also, an error occurred while attempting to render the standard error message.)
I believe all the appropiate python stack patches are applied.

Hmmm. Maybe some FreeBSD? patch will fix your problem. The current FreeBSD? /usr/ports/lang/python21/files has the following files:

-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel  2820 Nov 14  2002 patch-Lib:os.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   326 Jan 16  2002 patch-Misc:Makefile.pre.in
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   688 Nov 14  2002 patch-Modules:Setup.dist
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   793 Feb  6 17:44 patch-Python-thread_pthread.h-stacksize
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   429 Oct 19  2001 patch-setup.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root  wheel   599 Apr 13 21:20 zwiki.patch

You might also check the following Zwiki threads on memory problems (all related to FreeBSD?, but they may be caused by Imeme's memory limit)

Pieter cc: zwiki

Zwiki sighting: PushToTest? --Dean Goodmanson, 2003/06/17 17:41 GMT reply
Came across another Zwiki today : http://www.pushtotest.com/ptt/wiki/

Looks like a nice integration with a product site.

Also, The new comment system is not friendly to adding an AnnoyingQuote via comment box.

zwiki/freebsd --PieterB, 2003/06/17 18:57 GMT reply
Hi Bill,

Please use Zwiki's GeneralDiscussion instead of mailing directly. That way Simon (and maybe others) can read the discussion.

The thing I noticed with your file is that you use quite a lot of (unknown) wikipages and use long lines. Can you give it a try using the file at http://www.gewis.nl/~pieterb/zwiki/ChaosMagick.txt (I've used fmt to make most of the lines < 80 characters).

This might be the road to a simple test case that would be able to crash zwiki. That would make finding the cause a lot easier...

Bill wrote:

Yeah, my zwiki only lets me edit pages. When I try to edit the page, I get the typical proxy error message, and checking the log file confirms a code:11.

I'm guessing there are "enough" regexps in the page to trigger the problem. I've attached the full version whose save triggers the crash.

thx

Created June archive --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:15 GMT reply
Zwiki.org is terribly slow today. I created a June archive, maybe that fixes the problem.

a name / msg id's --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:26 GMT reply
The message id's look cool! Maybe it's a good idea to use the YYYYMMDD-HHMM-number scheme. That way a bit of Javascript can be made to redirect to archive pages. (I should be possible to get the URL, and e.g. rewrite GeneralDiscussion#20030201-1234-1 to GeneralDiscussion200302#20030201-1234-1). That would require to archive per month, and in future we should fix the regexp's so that longer pages can be made ;)

PieterB

a name / msg id's continued --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:30 GMT reply
The server can tell the Javascript which discussion range is on the page, and what discussionrange should be redirected to the appropriate other page. That would make the links permalinks as well ;)

PieterB

Memory error --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:38 GMT reply
People who are running out of Zope Memory, should read: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2003-June/thread.html#19873 (Andy McKay? thread on Memory Errors).

Memory error --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/17 20:33 GMT reply
Pieter - would you mind letting me know if you hear of OS X users affected by the same BSD issues?

Memory error --PieterB, 2003/06/17 20:50 GMT reply

Pieter - would you mind letting me know if you hear of OS X users affected by the same BSD issues?

I haven't heard of them. Do you expierence similar problems?

Pieter

Memory error --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/17 20:55 GMT reply
I haven't investigated it, but I have crashed on large pages, some diffs, and seem to eat more RAM that I'd expect. Climbs to ~100M Resident + 100M Virtual RAM, with a ~60Mg data.fs.

Python Unix mailbox --PieterB, 2003/06/17 23:30 GMT reply
Python unixmailbox examples:

new feature/code info page --SimonMichael, 2003/06/19 12:31 GMT reply
I've started FunctionalOverview. I'd like to add more developer detail there over time. I thought about including this in the DeveloperNotes but can't if I want to keep restructured text there.

GUADEC was great! Now I am in catchup mode.

which Python is running? --SimonMichael, 2003/06/19 13:05 GMT reply
Hi Bill - it sounds like you are quite close, hang in there. As you guessed, your listing shows three different python binaries in /usr/local/bin and a fourth in /usr/ports/lang/python21/work/Python-2.1.3, the one you built on june 8, which zope is not using. I would change that line in zope_start to:

 exec /usr/ports/lang/python21/work/Python-2.1.3/python \

That way you will be sure zope is using your latest build in that directory. Try that before anything else.

You expected the binary to be dated june 11 - if you did a build that day, I'd suspect there was an error which prevented it from completing.

/FunctionalOverview --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/19 14:20 GMT reply
Nice page! I wanted to add SubWiki's in there somewhere - scalability? Zope features?

VirtualHostingSummary page causes a site error --BillSeitz, 2003/06/19 16:29 GMT reply
don't know why - I'm guessing it's from some of the outputs of wiki_url methods

bug in install zwiki : "unknown locale: fr_FR@euro" --Simon Michael, 2003/06/19 19:21 GMT reply
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (Harobed) writes:

ValueError?: unknown locale: fr_FR@euro

Thanks for the report. You'll find the solution on the KnownIssues page (also in the debian bug tracking system I think).

bug in install zwiki : "unknown locale: fr_FR@euro" --SimonMichael, 2003/06/19 21:47 GMT reply
I was wrong - you'll find it here

Re: Proxy Error at zwiki.org --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 00:05 GMT reply
Thanks to all who reported the recent zwiki.org outage (20 hours ?). When I logged in this morning I found the last quota-overflow restart had failed, as it occasionally does, due to the new zope process starting before the old one had released the port. Not a true solution, but I've increased the delay there from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.

list admin --SimonMichael, 2003/06/20 08:51 GMT reply
Mails like Pieter's creation of the june archive were being held for approval due to the list's 40K message size limit. I've increased that to 100K. (Tip: when archiving, you can avoid a big mailout of old data by creating the empty page first).

I approved a message that was 600K the other day - it seemed legit and I wanted to see what it was, forgetting that it would land in everyone's mailbox. I think 100K is a reasonable limit for the list.

I'm going to investigate the duplicate messages now, and figure out just what is the situation. There might be some tests to ignore.

test 1, please ignore --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 08:53 GMT reply
1

test 2, please ignore --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 09:34 GMT reply
2

test 3, please ignore --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 10:18 GMT reply
3

list admin --SimonMichael, 2003/06/20 10:28 GMT reply
#519 mailing list sending two copies of comments ? has been fixed. Also I turned on mailman's "filter duplicates" option for existing and new subscribers, not that it should make much difference.

Creating a page --2003/06/20 12:10 GMT reply
I've been trying to stick with reST pages lately, just made my home page, KentT reST. I want to make a page to send a friend to so he can play with reST.

Previously I've been using a Wiki rendering scheme, so I create pages with freeform links, WikiCase?, or via ZMI.

Since my page here is reST, and I can't access ZMI, I guess this is a good place to create [Vagrant]?, though I'd prefer if the V could lower case, is that feasible ?

Thanks
Kent

Created June archive --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:15 GMT reply
Zwiki.org is terribly slow today. I created a June archive, maybe that fixes the problem.

a name / msg id's --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:26 GMT reply
The message id's look cool! Maybe it's a good idea to use the YYYYMMDD-HHMM-number scheme. That way a bit of Javascript can be made to redirect to archive pages. (I should be possible to get the URL, and e.g. rewrite GeneralDiscussion#20030201-1234-1 to GeneralDiscussion200302#20030201-1234-1). That would require to archive per month, and in future we should fix the regexp's so that longer pages can be made ;)

PieterB

a name / msg id's continued --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:30 GMT reply
The server can tell the Javascript which discussion range is on the page, and what discussionrange should be redirected to the appropriate other page. That would make the links permalinks as well ;)

PieterB

Memory error --PieterB, 2003/06/17 19:38 GMT reply
People who are running out of Zope Memory, should read: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2003-June/thread.html#19873 (Andy McKay? thread on Memory Errors).

Memory error --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/17 20:33 GMT reply
Pieter - would you mind letting me know if you hear of OS X users affected by the same BSD issues?

Memory error --PieterB, 2003/06/17 20:50 GMT reply

Pieter - would you mind letting me know if you hear of OS X users affected by the same BSD issues?

I haven't heard of them. Do you expierence similar problems?

Pieter

Memory error --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/17 20:55 GMT reply
I haven't investigated it, but I have crashed on large pages, some diffs, and seem to eat more RAM that I'd expect. Climbs to ~100M Resident + 100M Virtual RAM, with a ~60Mg data.fs.

Python Unix mailbox --PieterB, 2003/06/17 23:30 GMT reply
Python unixmailbox examples:

new feature/code info page --SimonMichael, 2003/06/19 12:31 GMT reply
I've started FunctionalOverview. I'd like to add more developer detail there over time. I thought about including this in the DeveloperNotes but can't if I want to keep restructured text there.

GUADEC was great! Now I am in catchup mode.

which Python is running? --SimonMichael, 2003/06/19 13:05 GMT reply
Hi Bill - it sounds like you are quite close, hang in there. As you guessed, your listing shows three different python binaries in /usr/local/bin and a fourth in /usr/ports/lang/python21/work/Python-2.1.3, the one you built on june 8, which zope is not using. I would change that line in zope_start to:

 exec /usr/ports/lang/python21/work/Python-2.1.3/python \

That way you will be sure zope is using your latest build in that directory. Try that before anything else.

You expected the binary to be dated june 11 - if you did a build that day, I'd suspect there was an error which prevented it from completing.

/FunctionalOverview --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/19 14:20 GMT reply
Nice page! I wanted to add SubWiki's in there somewhere - scalability? Zope features?

VirtualHostingSummary page causes a site error --BillSeitz, 2003/06/19 16:29 GMT reply
don't know why - I'm guessing it's from some of the outputs of wiki_url methods

bug in install zwiki : "unknown locale: fr_FR@euro" --Simon Michael, 2003/06/19 19:21 GMT reply
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (Harobed) writes:

ValueError?: unknown locale: fr_FR@euro

Thanks for the report. You'll find the solution on the KnownIssues page (also in the debian bug tracking system I think).

bug in install zwiki : "unknown locale: fr_FR@euro" --SimonMichael, 2003/06/19 21:47 GMT reply
I was wrong - you'll find it here

Re: Proxy Error at zwiki.org --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 00:05 GMT reply
Thanks to all who reported the recent zwiki.org outage (20 hours ?). When I logged in this morning I found the last quota-overflow restart had failed, as it occasionally does, due to the new zope process starting before the old one had released the port. Not a true solution, but I've increased the delay there from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.

list admin --SimonMichael, 2003/06/20 08:51 GMT reply
Mails like Pieter's creation of the june archive were being held for approval due to the list's 40K message size limit. I've increased that to 100K. (Tip: when archiving, you can avoid a big mailout of old data by creating the empty page first).

I approved a message that was 600K the other day - it seemed legit and I wanted to see what it was, forgetting that it would land in everyone's mailbox. I think 100K is a reasonable limit for the list.

I'm going to investigate the duplicate messages now, and figure out just what is the situation. There might be some tests to ignore.

test 1, please ignore --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 08:53 GMT reply
1

test 2, please ignore --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 09:34 GMT reply
2

test 3, please ignore --Simon Michael, 2003/06/20 10:18 GMT reply
3

list admin --SimonMichael, 2003/06/20 10:28 GMT reply
#519 mailing list sending two copies of comments ? has been fixed. Also I turned on mailman's "filter duplicates" option for existing and new subscribers, not that it should make much difference.

Creating a page --2003/06/20 12:10 GMT reply
I've been trying to stick with reST pages lately, just made my home page, KentT reST. I want to make a page to send a friend to so he can play with reST.

Previously I've been using a Wiki rendering scheme, so I create pages with freeform links, WikiCase?, or via ZMI.

Since my page here is reST, and I can't access ZMI, I guess this is a good place to create [Vagrant]?, though I'd prefer if the V could lower case, is that feasible ?

Thanks
Kent

Creating a page --SimonMichael, 2003/06/20 14:27 GMT reply
Sorry, I don't understand. You can link [vagrant]? in brackets like so, but you can't really control the Vagrant id/url zwiki generates for it. (You can rename it in the ZMI, but freeform links to that page won't work.)

messages now use mbox format --SimonMichael, 2003/06/20 16:18 GMT reply
Messages (comments) are now always stored in "strict" mbox format - each must begin with a standard "From user.. date.." separator (see src). The mbox method is no longer needed.

This may seem more cluttersome for editors, but we don't edit messages too often and I think it will simplify things overall.

Message perma-links --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/20 16:24 GMT reply
Any thoughts on using the zwiki purple number style for perma-links with an embedded id which gets translated to the permalink?

This adds a text item to the page, but more static than re-indexed items per render.

upgrading messages --SimonMichael, 2003/06/20 16:25 GMT reply
Starting an /upgradeAll?upgrade_messages=1 to convert any remaining comments with the interim format.. this will make the site unresponsive for a few minutes.

This will only convert the comments made in the last few days.. I want it to also convert the old-style comments used throughout the site, but coding that seems too hard right now.

Re: Creating a page -- 2003/06/21 02:16 GMT reply

>Sorry, I don't understand.

That's what I meant, the fact that that the id/url is different than the freeform link.

Thanks, Kent

Promoting ZwikiContributors page --PieterB, 2003/06/21 10:23 GMT reply
I see none of the regular ZwikiContributors use the term on their personal page. Maybe it will be good to do so. I also reparented my page under ZwikiContributors (hope nobody minds ;)

Promoting ZwikiContributors page --SimonMichael, 2003/06/21 16:53 GMT reply
Yes our people pages need work. I thought of merging ZwikiContributors with PeopleIndex.. perhaps renaming it WhosWho?..

Testing the new reply links which should preserve threading when web-posting.

Promoting ZwikiContributors page --SimonMichael, 2003/06/21 17:03 GMT reply
Ah, one more tweak should do it.

test, please ignore --SimonMichael, 2003/06/21 17:36 GMT reply
1

gmane newsgroup! --Simon Michael, 2003/06/21 18:31 GMT reply
Did you know we've been on gmane.org since april ? Thanks to whoever set it up. gmane.comp.web.zope.zwiki is the group. Another way to access zwiki.org.

If you haven't used gmane, it's a public news server which makes mail lists available as newsgroups, so you can read and post from your newsreader. This can be more convenient than managing mail list subscriptions.

With the duplicates fixed and threading enabled, this list/newsgroup should start to become useful. Now, if only formatMailout filled text properly, handled international characters and didn't strip indentation.

New input on FreeBSD? thread's / SiteReliability --PieterB, 2003/06/22 07:50 GMT reply
See [PatchPython213#msg2]? (or in case it doesn't work: http://zwiki.org/PatchPython213#msg2 ).

It would be great if Simon or BillSeitz could give the Python2.1-maintainance branche on CVS a try.

How should a thread/discussion be displayed? --PieterB, 2003/06/22 07:59 GMT reply
I'm thinking of trying to revamp/"skin" the next generation GeneralDiscussion. What good forums layout do you know of?

Things I like:

threading --PieterB, 2003/06/22 08:29 GMT reply
Two more thing about threading/unix mboxes:

Spaces are not allowed in the "emailadress" in the from header.

So no: ^From Firstname Lastname

Perhaps best to use the same rewriting mechanism as in URL's

Furthermore, lines in the message that start with "^From " should be quoted, like ">From " to prevent seeing as a new message.

Let's give them both a try...

Testcase 1:


>From PieterB Sat Jun 21 18:31:00 GMT 2003

Testcase 2:
>From Pieter B Sat Jun 21 18:31:00 GMT 2003

Btw: messageid's should be unique. The current MessageId? has the form: <200306211736GMT>. We need to add a unique id, to indicate which wiki is being used, e.g. <200306211736GMT@zwiki.org>, and I think if a second message is send in one minute the MessageId? should also add the seconds. Example: 200306 (first message of the month, sent on June, 01) 20030601 (second message, sent on June, 01) 200306011423 (third message, sent on June, 01, 14:23) 20030601142359 (fourth mesage, sent on June, 01, 14:23:59)

What about using a seperator, e.g. 2003-06-01-1423

Another option would be to always include the day, hour and seconds.

PieterB

Re: unsubscribing GeneralDiscussion --Simon Michael, 2003/06/22 10:33 GMT reply
laura trippi writes:
> When I tried to send this to the list, it bounced:
>
> > You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message
> > has been automatically rejected.

Yes - to block spam the list rejects non-subscribers (ie anyone not subscribed to the whole-wiki mailing list - even though they may be subscribed to a page).


> When I go to
>
> http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion/subscribeform
>
> my name still appears. When I enter my email address, I get:
>
> > This wiki's subscribeform template gave an error, perhaps due to an old
> version in the wiki folder. Suggestion: remove it.
>
> and
>
> > NameError?: global name ZopeTime is not defined

Eek. You've found http://zwiki.org/IssueNo0537ChangingEmailAddressOnSubscribeformGivesNameErrorZopeTime , now fixed and added to KnownIssues. You should be able to unsubscribe now.


> Also, my name page at zwiki.org is getting a TypeError?:
>
> http://zwiki.org/LauraTrippi
>
> > Traceback (innermost last): ...
> > * Module urllib, line 1082, in _fast_quote

and another bug in the new message code, fixed.

Thanks! Cc'ing to GeneralDiscussion for general info.

How should a thread/discussion be displayed? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/22 10:46 GMT reply
I like SlashDot's "nested" layout also.

threading --Simon Michael, 2003/06/22 11:24 GMT reply
PieterB <pieterb@gewis.nl> writes:
> Spaces are not allowed in the "emailadress" in the from header.

Well spotted, I just made it strip those out.

Note when something is mailed in we throw away the sender's email address. Should we use it here ? Obfuscate it ?


> Furthermore, lines in the message that start with "^From " should
> be quoted, like ">From " to prevent seeing as a new message.

I guess you're right.. though all this special formatting is getting a little confusing. Patch/checkin welcome.


> Btw: messageid's should be unique. The current MessageId? has the form:
> <200306211736GMT>. We need to add a unique id, to indicate which wiki is
> being used, e.g. <200306211736GMT@zwiki.org>, and I think if a second
> message is send in one minute the MessageId? should also add the seconds.

Right. I've now added the seconds and @serverhostname to the message ids it generates.

Also, it now considers <> part of the message id which I think is correct.

threading --Simon Michael, 2003/06/22 11:29 GMT reply
That last duplicate was my fault. I re-sent since I was restarting zope and it failed to post to the page.

Dean's issue hack rocks --SimonMichael, 2003/06/23 12:02 GMT reply
Have I mentioned how much I like this (adding issue property changes as comments) ? Simple, effective, and useful. (Also, I agree it would be good to make the subjects more informative.)

misc --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/06/25 19:02 GMT reply
I found that a page with <dtml-var URL1> can't be embedded (interlocution?) in another page.

Thanks for the props, Simon. I'm in crunch-mode and it was an a nice the pick-me-up.

too many properties in Catalog? --BillSeitz, 2003/06/25 20:49 GMT reply
I'm considering adding a Catalog, mainly (for now) for performance of views like RecentChanges?.

It seems to me like there are many unnecessary fields in the standard catalog spec. For instance, it seems obvious to include lastEditTime, but why include last_edit_time (which is a string, and thus I assume just for display)? Does the redundancy increase the catalog bloat and therefore maybe reduce the memory left for things like cache objects? (sorry if that's a stupid question)

does IssueTracker automation need to be an ExternalMethod? --BillSeitz, 2003/06/25 20:54 GMT reply
the code in SetupIssueTracker? is designed to be an ExternalMethod. Could it be a PythonScript instead, or does it need some libraries that scripts can't call?

Also, if the folder is not new (e.g. there are already pages and Tracker items in the folder), will they get added to the Catalog?

Bill FreeBSD? stability -- 2003/06/26 06:32 GMT reply
Bill, you shouldn't use ftp://ftp.FreeBSD.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-stable/All/ but check the files out of CVS. See http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/lang/python21/files/ See http://www.freebsd.org/ how to use FreeBSD?'s CVS. I really hope you get it to work using ports. That way others will be able to use Zope/zwiki in future without going through the whole patching business.

Import/export from an old ZWiki version makes something strange -- 2003/06/26 09:29 GMT reply
Hi. I run into a weird problem. I have exported a very old ZWiki instance (ZWiki-0.7.1, yes, no typo!) from an also old Zope server. Then I imported the zexp into a new server (where a brand new ZWiki-0.19.0 product has been installed). Everything seems to be ok, but the content of the ZWikiPages have changed automagically (for me). The exported pages (on the old wiki) seem like Structured Text, although the imported pages (on the new wiki) are HTML. I am a bit new to import/export features, so perhaps I have missed something obvious. Has anyone any idea?

Re: Import/export from an old ZWiki version makes something strange -- 2003/06/26 11:11 GMT reply
Well, I would have to learn to read... I upgraded every pages with... yes, upgrade(), unbelievable...

But, in order to not suicide myself as a poor man asking stupid questions, I may point out a bug in Mail._upgradeSubscribers() : http://zwiki.org/IssueNo0540UpgradingSubscribersListDoesNotWorkInCertainCases

Problems creating a catalog --BillSeitz, 2003/06/27 11:12 GMT reply
Modified SetupIssueTracker? to set up the catalog without do the IssueTracker bits.

Ran into problems. See BillSeitz:ZopeCatalog.

too many properties in Catalog? & catalog setup --simon, 2003/06/27 11:29 GMT reply

> Does the redundancy increase the catalog bloat and therefore maybe reduce the memory
> left for things like cache objects?

Probably, but it's hard to quantify.

last_edit_time, lastEditTime and all the others have been used for performance somewhere around zwiki.org (RecentChanges?, IssueTracker, backlinks...), maybe we could do away with some of them.

Regarding catalog setup, I want to include it in the product. My current thinking is to leave the AddZwikiWebForm? simple, and add a new "wiki configurator" form which provides a more high-level wiki configuration interface than the ZMI, including a "set up catalog" button. (This would be a page method like the rest of the code, but would act on the folder.)

Best of all would be if we made this configuration form unnecessary. For example, we could always set up a catalog in a new wiki. However there's still the case where you start from a single wiki page, or you have an existing wiki, and want to add a catalog later.

rc1 delayed --simon, 2003/06/27 12:19 GMT reply
I tried to squeeze in a couple of last minute changes but they didn't work out (removing wiki folder in CMF, displaying end-user page types in ZMI, handling disallowed types in editform). I'll do the release later.

0.20rc1 released --simon, 2003/06/27 12:57 GMT reply
Done. ReleaseNotes has the scoop.

How to add initial pages without using ZWiki folder, in CMF/Plone --colin, 2003/06/27 18:03 GMT reply
If you remove the ZWiki folder type for CMF/Plone, how is the initial set of pages supposed to get in there (FrontPage and all)? That is, right now, I went into plone, added a ZWiki folder called temp, which created a web with all the default pages, but of course was not visible in the naviation browser box since it isn't and can't be browsed. Then I created a regular folder called wiki, which I published, and then did a copy and paste of the default wiki pages from the zwiki folder to the regular one. So I ended up with a published folder with the default wiki pages. This is a bit convoluted but it works. If you remove the ability to add a ZWiki folder, how are you supposed to get the initial set of pages in there, assuming you need them (for help and the like)?

Docutils versions for reStructuredText --colin, 2003/06/27 18:08 GMT reply
Which docutils version is needed for reStructuredText support? I wanted to get this going, but noticed that there is no recent docutils release (0.3, from 2002-06-24 is the most current). Should this be used, or am I better off pulling down the current stuff from CVS?

Another ZWiki folder and normal folder (in Plone) difference --colin, 2003/06/27 18:23 GMT reply
There is another difference in using a normal folder vs. ZWiki folder within Plone, in that the default view of a ZWiki folder shows you the FrontPage, along with the 'ZWiki contentsFrontPage ... ' hierarchy above it, while of course a normal folder with nothing in it will just show the text saying there is no default page for the folder, and show the subpages and subfolders in a content style view. Is there any way to get the normal folder to behave like the ZWiki folder, in this respect?

Another ZWiki folder and normal folder (in Plone) difference --Simon Michael, 2003/06/27 20:41 GMT reply

> There is another difference in using a normal folder vs. ZWiki folder
> within Plone, in that the default view of a ZWiki folder shows you the
> FrontPage

Exactly, that's reason #2 for keeping Wiki Folder (thanks for clarifying these..). You usually want a wiki to display it's front page by default. Unless you contrive to have that page named "index_html" (unlikely), you'll need an index_html DTML Method which redirects to the front page. Creating a Wiki Folder takes care of this step. (Does this actually work at present ? Anyway it can and should.)

misc --Simon Michael, 2003/06/27 20:47 GMT reply
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> I found that a page with http://zwiki.org can't be embedded

Thanks Dean.. that seems weird. If you have the time, please work up a little demo or issue page, this should be working.

does IssueTracker automation need to be an ExternalMethod? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/27 20:50 GMT reply

> Also, if the folder is not new (e.g. there are already pages and Tracker
> items in the folder), will they get added to the Catalog?

I can answer that.. well I can guess, assuming the script isn't that smart - no, they won't. After setting up the catalog, you'd need to call index_object on each page, or more usually use the catalog's Find objects tab in the ZMI to populate it with all the Zwiki Pages in the folder.

Message perma-links --Simon Michael, 2003/06/27 21:11 GMT reply

> Any thoughts on using the zwiki purple number style for perma-links with
> an embedded id which gets translated to the permalink?

Just a couple...

As a user, I don't much like having to see that extra link information interspersed with my text.

If we used messages as our unit of text, we could use the embedded Message-ID header as the permanent id and the message number as the other (I've forgotten the jargon). We have anchors for these - eg http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msg60 and http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msgid%3C20030627182332GMT%40zwiki.org%3E .

The message-id url is a permalink - until you move the message to another page. I haven't understood a nice way to solve that yet. Perhaps have a lookup method so that you can do PAGEURL/msg?id=%3C20030627182332GMT%40zwiki.org%3E or PAGEURL/msg/... and it searches the wiki for that message-id and redirects to that page. (WIKIURL/msg?id=... would be a nicer url, but would require special setup since we don't control the folder's code). I wonder if down the road we'd want message ids to be wiki-link-able also, so [20030627182332GMT%40zwiki.org]? or <20030627182332GMT%40zwiki.org> would lead to the right place.

Contracts for Python --SimonMichael, 2003/06/28 05:57 GMT reply
http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/

"Design by Contract is familiar to anyone who has spent time with the Eiffel programming language. This implementation is a cross between full Eiffel-style contracts and the doctest module.

Contracts are high-level assertions that are part of the program's documentation. Modules and classes have invariants, expressions that must be true at the start and end of every public function or method call. Methods and functions have pre-conditions, expressions that must be true on entry; and post-conditions, expressions that must be true on exit."

doctest enhancements --simon, 2003/06/28 07:27 GMT reply
Jim Fulton wrote on python-dev in may:

 I've written some doctest extensions to:

 - Generate a unitest (pyunit) test suite from a module with doctest
   tests. Each doc string containing one or more doctest tests becomes
   a test case.

   If a test fails, an error message is included in the unittest
   output that has the module file name and the approximate line number
   of the docstring containing the failed test formatted in a way
   understood by emacs error parsing. This is important. ;)

 - Debug doctest tests.  Normally, doctest tests can't be debugged
   with pdb because, while they are running, doctest has taken over
   standard output.  This tool extracts the tests in a doc string
   into a separate script and runs pdb on it.

 - Extract a doctest doc string into a script file.

 I think that these would be good additions to doctest and propose
 to add them

What with this and contracts, perhaps I'll be using doctests again soon. Need to get emacs to hide these long docstrings though.

Re: Customization Humble Pie (from LauraTrippi) --simon, 2003/06/28 08:30 GMT reply
Yay! I'm glad you're finding customization easier now. I may have misled you by going on about my development process - over a period of time I moved away from the ZODB to the filesystem for maintaining the default templates. I expect most users to be in your situation and find ZODB-based templates much more suitable.

Zwiki docs are still a primeval soup. I'd love to see the above added in there somehow. As I see it, customization docs should end up either as part of the UserGuide?, or in a separate Customization Guide.

I'm interested in rolling in your adjustments, if it makes sense. Anyone else working in this area may want to chime in/point to existing patches. Customization should become easier still as we add these CSS hooks, figure out how best to find the stylesheet, etc. Wishlist: someone to figure out how to provide a "customize" button like CMF skins, so you don't have to go to the filesystem.

bad URL regexp rule --BillSeitz, 2003/06/28 18:02 GMT reply
URLs? with $ in them as part of arguments don't get rendered properly. You get lots of these with UserlandManila?-driven sites (e.g. discussion entries). For example, see BillSeitz#msg1

Re: Customization Humble Pie (from LauraTrippi) -- 2003/06/28 20:46 GMT reply
Yes, if you think it's useful, please use it! I'll try to elaborate on the CSS bits as I continue working on it. To truly make ZWiki more customizable, tho (I hesitate to say this, but ...), the templates would use divs and classes to control the layout, instead of tables with inline style tags controlling colors etc. I think that's the interim step to a "customize" button, and would make internal style adjustments much more manageable now (background colors on headers/footer, etc.).

To save people going into /skins on the file system, you could simply post the current skins on zwiki.org. Might be a bit of a pain to maintain and there might not be much of an "audience" for this. But it makes the process more transparent for non-programmers. For example, for version 0-15-0, see: http://www.netvironments.org/blog/notezwiki/ZWikiPageZPT

to catalog or not to catalog ? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/30 09:43 GMT reply

> Excellent discussion on HackThePlanet? about "building
> a":http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$7057?mode=day
> PersonalWebArchive?. AaronSwartz "points
> to":http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$7073?mode=day his
> Python-based "Archiver Proxy", and a ZoPe product call zzKnowMan.
> DaveMcCusker? points to some of the "potential
> complexities":http://wmf.editthispage.com/discuss/msgReader$7070?mode=day
> , especially if your tool builds a search-index in addition to
> just saving copies, and notes his understanding of the BuyBuildAvoid?
> concept: *At work, I often have the opportunity to consider using an
> index to make something sophisticated work. We resist doing this every
> time, however, because I explain it will be hard to cope in any
> reasonable low latency time when (not if) corruption occurs. So we
> avoid the effects of entropy partly by avoiding the maintenance of
> systems we don't want to process when corrupt. (Things that don't
> exist don't get corrupt, and don't cost any time to create either.*
> --
> forwarded from http://zwiki.org/BillSeitz

Answering this on GD.. both to cc others, and due to my nagging fear of the whole wiki turning into a soup of discussion. (But maybe it should ?)

Thanks for the links. I agree with the point about indexing - this is why I introduced catalog support so slowly and why it's still optional.

At present I think it's reliable enough, trouble-free enough, and easy enough to throw away and regenerate, that it's been a good win for Zwiki. Even to the point where I'm contemplating using it always, or making some features depend on it (as IssueTracker already does).

On the other hand the benefit it brings right now is not so huge - I think it speeds up RecentChanges? and backlinks a bit in a large wiki. And of course it makes IssueTracker and future apps like it possible, which is indeed quite useful. But there is also some hard-to-quantify scalability cost (increased memory usage and conflict errors).

If anyone has opinions or experiences to share either way, please jump in.

(PS I've re-enabled the page url mail signature)