Archived GeneralDiscussion.


comments:

Pieter --simon, 2003/07/01 09:08 GMT reply
Hi.. unfortunately some machine is refusing my mail to you.. but I added you to the CVS committers. Thanks for the help.

Re: Pieter -- 2003/07/02 08:44 GMT reply
Thanks, I'll do some Zwiki'ing in aprox. 2 weeks (holiday!). I hope to add the new GeneralDiscussionNG? layout/sorting/threading to CVS then.

Zwiki 0.20 released --Simon Michael, 2003/07/02 09:54 GMT reply
Summary: Simpler page types, smarter message handling, auto subscription option; mail, skin and miscellaneous bugfixes; python 2.1 or greater now required.

More information: http://zwiki.org/ReleaseNotes , http://zwiki.org/KnownIssues , http://zwiki.org

Download: http://zwiki.org/releases/ZWiki-0.20.0.tgz or http://zope.org/Members/simon/ZWiki/ZWiki-0.20.0.tgz

Best wishes, --Simon

Re: Pieter --Simon Michael, 2003/07/02 10:53 GMT reply

> add the new GeneralDiscussionNG? layout/sorting/threading to CVS then.

Great, can you tell us more ? Isn't your stuff client-side ?

Re: Pieter --PieterB, 2003/07/02 11:08 GMT reply

> > add the new GeneralDiscussionNG? layout/sorting/threading to CVS then.
> Great, can you tell us more ? Isn't your stuff client-side ?

Yep it's, the client side stuff. But the server must generate: the message count, and the messageid-array and the messageparent-array.

See http://www.gewis.nl/~pieterb/zope/zwiki-general-discussion-ng.html for an example.

PieterB

NameError? when changing a page (conflicting versions?) --Gualter Barbas Baptista, 2003/07/02 14:44 GMT reply
Hello,

I am getting the following error, whenever two people edit the text at the= =20 same time. I'm quite new to zwiki, but it seems like this happens when zwik= i=20 is not able to change the documents (since they have different versions) an= d=20 was supposed to call some editConflictDialog, which fails.

Is this a bug or some permissions problem (I'm also only a few days into=20 Zope)? I am using ZWiki 0.19.

Thanks for any help provided.

***

Site Error

An error was encountered while publishing this resource.=20

NameError?

Sorry, a site error occurred.

Traceback (innermost last):=20

Module ZPublisher?.Publish, line 150, in publish_module Module ZPublisher?.Publish, line 114, in publish Module Zope.App.startup, line 182, in zpublisher_exception_hook Module ZPublisher?.Publish, line 98, in publish Module ZPublisher?.mapply, line 88, in mapply Module ZPublisher?.Publish, line 39, in call_object Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 1743, in edit Module Products.ZWiki.UI, line 196, in editConflictDialog NameError?=20

***

NameError? when changing a page (conflicting versions?) -- 2003/07/02 17:51 GMT reply
I thought that was fixed with 0.18.0 . Maybe I misread ReleaseNotes

I think I also saw that in the ReleaseNotes, but... well, that's the version and that's the output ;)

Re: NameError? when changing a page (conflicting versions?) --Simon Michael, 2003/07/03 09:29 GMT reply
Hi.. I think you're actually running zwiki 0.17 (based on the traceback). Try PAGEURL/zwiki_version or look in /Control_Panel/Products/manage_main.

Re: NameError? when changing a page (conflicting versions?) --Gualter Barbas Baptista, 2003/07/03 12:02 GMT reply
=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Em Quinta, 3 de Julho de 2003 10:28, escreveu:
> Hi.. I think you're actually running zwiki 0.17 (based on the traceback).
> Try PAGEURL/zwiki_version or look in /Control_Panel/Products/manage_main.

True, it's 0.17. But this is strange, as I have "emerged" zwiki 0.19 on=20 Gentoo. It's probably a gentoo portage tree bug. I already submitted it=20 (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D23908), so let's hope it gets sol= ved=20 soon.

=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG? v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/BBr?7JelshvE+zyERAvJ8AKDLmSiNKgZiVsgl+FZu0?+s0XMvOIgCgiLZR t242rz0UdDJllsdim98OWR8=3D =3DEpaW =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

encoding -- 2003/07/04 08:36 GMT reply
Sorry, may be i just have not read all documentation thoroughly, but i have some problem with encoding. When I add some content to ZWiki page not-english encoded, system replaces some symbols by '&'s etc. and some symbols are just changed to another encoding. Is there any way to control such behaviour?

structured text + dtml vs. restructured text for faq --SimonMichael, 2003/07/04 09:37 GMT reply
I did a quick conversion of FAQ, see FAQInReStructuredText?. We can't maintain both so must pick one. It seems a tough call, though. The RST version's source is much cleaner and could be used as-is for a text version. But it prevents use of HTML, and it feels less forgiving and more difficult to use if you don't know all the RST rules (my STX bias ?). Opinions ?

encoding --SimonMichael, 2003/07/04 09:42 GMT reply
What zwiki version ? Can you give an example on this page ?

encoding -- 2003/07/04 10:19 GMT reply
Oh! I feel so sad of disturbing you, but i solved the problem by myself already. It was the problem of server not knowing about client encoding, or something like that. I forced all pages to have one encoding having corrected wicki_header and everything works. =)

... -- 2003/07/05 19:12 GMT reply
There are many include mechanisms implemented for moin moin, some are quite complicated. Rather than letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, what about adding a very simple, non-parameterized version: [Include !MyWikiPage]? this will include the text for MyWikiPage in this paragraph. We can keep things very very simple, for example, making no attempt to do anything special for included pages that have different formatting rules than the including page. At a minimum, though, we would want to detect cycles. Here is one example from moinmoin http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/moin/moin.cgi/macro_2fInclude_2epy obviously not usable as is.. --Craeg Strong

... -- 2003/07/07 09:42 GMT reply

... -- 2003/07/07 09:45 GMT reply
Hi, I installed ZWikie? 0.20 as described, but it doesn't render. In my wiki I see the source instead of the rendered html, ie I see the html code and the wiki code. It's probably something simple I forgot, but I don't see it.

... -- 2003/07/07 09:48 GMT reply
Hmm. I downgraded to 0.19 and now it seems to work. Strange though.

Creating page via link in Zwiki in Plone brings in original page text -- 2003/07/10 02:29 GMT reply
First of all, I get the issue with the wrong page type (and having to manually reset it myself) even when just creating a new ZWiki Web inside Plone, without trying to convert an existing site.

Also, when I edit a page and add on it a WikiWord? to allow a new page to be created, the ? is displayed ok. But when I click on the question mark, there is an issue in the the new page is created with the content of the page I came from. Very weird... This doesn't happen in a ZWiki outside of Plone.

including pages --SimonMichael, 2003/07/13 15:45 GMT reply
Hi Craeg.. what about using DTML ? This will do it IIRC:

 <dtml-var "SomePage.text()">

I like this because it uses an existing general mechanism rather than adding a special-purpose one.

Kwiki --SimonMichael, 2003/07/13 15:49 GMT reply
KWiki is a nice new perl wiki clone by BrianIngerson?. Check out KWiki:KwikiSlideShow, KWiki:KwikiBlog.

including pages -- 2003/07/13 19:19 GMT reply
Fascinating. I would think exactly the opposite, just goes to show that everything is relative. Rather than using a special-purpose solution of limited applicability (only works within Zope servers of < Zope3X vintage) I would prefer a general solution that will work within any Wiki, such as moinmoin, twiki, etc. running in Apache, Twisted, etc. etc. Personally, I think the wiki and structured text concepts are of more general scope than Zope (a particular instantiation of a Python based app server/CMF) and probably longer lived. That point is debatable, I will agree. However, I think no one will debate the fact that DTML is a deprecated technology, and the Python/Zope world is moving on to ZPT. That having been said, I see nothing wrong with making the first cut of the implementation of a WikiInclude mechanism follow precisely the example you have shown. That is, ZWiki converts a regular WikiInclude statement to the appropriate dtml-var expression under the covers. Problem solved!

front page update --SimonMichael, 2003/07/13 19:43 GMT reply
I've reworked FrontPage based on ZwikiBlog.

including pages --SimonMichael, 2003/07/13 22:19 GMT reply

> that everything is relative. Rather than using a special-purpose
> solution of limited applicability (only works within Zope servers of <
> Zope3X vintage) I would prefer a general solution that will work
> within any Wiki, such as moinmoin, twiki, etc.

Ah, I see. Different frame of reference. If a standard syntax for this emerges in wikidom, I'd want zwiki to support it, but for now I don't feel much urgency to provide another way of doing this.


> Twisted, etc. etc. Personally, I think the wiki and structured text
> concepts are of more general scope than Zope (a particular

Agreed.


> will debate the fact that DTML is a deprecated technology, and the
> Python/Zope world is moving on to ZPT. That having been said, I see

ZPT doesn't replace DTML for all applications. I think DTML is still a good solution when you want to do fully flexible PHP/ASP-style server-side coding, embedding dynamic fragments in a wiki page for example.

0-20-0: altering available_page_types (a how to) --laura trippi, 2003/07/13 22:47 GMT reply
I've just upgraded to 0-20-0 (from 0-15-0) and -- thanks for the streamlined, simplified page_types! I think the selection in general is great, very friendly (to the larger wiki community).

I wanted to make STX + DTML available in my zWikis, though. It took a little doing for me to sort it out, but it's working fine now.

So I drafted a little "how to". Where to put it? I wasn't sure so figured I'd just email it out. =}

Let me know if/what I've gotten wrong and, Simon, pls. feel free or let me know where best to add this.

Oh, a related note: After upgrading from 0-15-0 to 0-20-0, all the existing pages got a warning when first edited that page_type stxprelinkhtml isn't allowed (I'd been using the default STX page type). The formatting of pages not yet edited in 0-20-0 was/is a bit off, BUT: no pages are broken and the warning goes away as soon as I've saved the page in 0-20-0 (using STX or whatever).

I'm running: Zope 2.6.0 and python 2.1.3 (freebsd4).

================================================================

ALTERING THE LIST OF AVAILABLE PAGE TYPES (HOW TO) 0-20-0

+ fleshes out Simon's ReleaseNotes

This is a guide for altering the list of available wiki page types to include STX + DTML. It should also assist you if you want change the list in other ways.

Let's see how to get the DTML capability back into our zWiki!

This should give you: Structured Text, Structured Text + DTML, reStructured Text, WikiWikiWeb markup, and HTML.

For a different selection, or to adjust the order in which they appear, alter the list accordingly. =}

[note] Don't confuse the list of allowed_page_types on the properties tab of the zWiki folder, with the page_types listed on the properties tab of individual zWiki pages! (It's a drop-down menu.) This shows the entire set of page types supported in your version of zWiki, from which the list of available types can be drawn.

+ fuller discussion at: http://www.netvironments.org/laurazWiki/WikiPageTypes including a preliminary answer to the question, why use DTML in a zWiki?

================================================================

Sidenote: as often happens, it was writing up a bug report that enabled me to see what I was doing wrong. =}

Now I just hope I don't bounce this email or something!

best,

::laura
laura trippi

including pages -- 2003/07/13 22:51 GMT reply

> ZPT doesn't replace DTML for all applications.

Agreed. However, this is not necessarily a good example:

       <tal:nothing tal:replace="here/SomePage/text"/>

would do the trick as a ZPT.

However, what I am arguing for is freedom from either of the above. I think its fine to make DTML and/or ZPT available for me to use in my wiki page, but I would prefer to have the ability to use nothing but standard Wiki tags for maximum portability and reusability of content.

Of course, this presupposes that there actually is some kind of standard. Based on this report http://goofrider.www2.dotnetplayground.com/ow.asp?WikiEngines I can see it is not really the case. One possible heuristic could be to evaluate each possible feature against the other major wiki implementations mentioned. For example, if Open Wiki, Moin Moin, and JSP Wiki all support WikiIncludes?, do they share a common syntax? Open Wiki:

  <Include(SomePage)>

Moin Moin:

   [Include (SomePage)]

JSP Wiki:

    <wiki:Include page="SomePage.jsp" />

Sadly, there is no common syntax, although they are fairly close. I still think it would be nice for ZWiki to provide an Include tag, if only because it is much more intentful. Of course, its a matter of opinion, in the end.

Mail Subscription: general edits --ftour, 2003/07/14 01:52 GMT reply
Mail Subscription form says "Subscribers receive a copy of comments via email (but not general edits, unless enabled by the site admin)". How does the site admin enable this general edits option?

including pages --Simon Michael, 2003/07/14 03:42 GMT reply
Oops, I should have steered this thread to the issue page.. :

 >        <tal:nothing tal:replace="here/SomePage/text"/>

That's not a ZPT though, just a TAL fragment. If anyone knows how to support these in a zwiki page, that would be great.

Thanks for the data on other wikis. I wonder how it looks in wikipedia, swiki, kwiki, usemod. Currently Zwiki uses minimal special keywords, other than the text formatting rules, wiki linking rules and DTML - only RemoteWikiURL: IIRC. It might be that our [] syntax will evolve to support more special tags. If someone posts a patch for an include tag I'll try it out.

FrontPage --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/14 20:07 GMT reply
Neat Blog Look! I was reminded to add RecentPages to the Recent Activity header, but noticed it conflicted with the header to the blog look.

a. is RecentPage? useful? b. Should the name be changed? c. Should it be integrated (via option) to RecentChanges??

PurpleNumbers page question --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/15 19:49 GMT reply
fwd: Any possibility that Mike's work will make it into the next release of ZWiki? A few people have been asking about it.

PurpleNumbers page question --SimonMichael, 2003/07/15 20:17 GMT reply
I saw it, thanks. Nifty RecentPages. As long as we don't confuse the poor first-time visitor.

call for help - bug investigators --SimonMichael, 2003/07/15 20:23 GMT reply
Hey, if anyone has time to investigate/fix some issues, eg those last few plone issues.. that would help a lot. It's july 15 already and it would be good if 0.21 feels more polished than 0.20 did.

problem replying for page subscribers ? --Simon Michael, 2003/07/15 20:32 GMT reply
Simon Michael writes:
> A detail I've just noticed - because only whole-wiki subscribers are
> on the mailing list, and it has a members-only posting policy, page
> subscribers wanting to send to the wiki can't use the list address;
> instead they must send directly to the wiki at zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org.
>
> Hmm, this is a problem when replying. Has this been affecting
> GeneralDiscussion page subscribers all along ?
> --
> forwarded from http://zwiki.org/WikiMailAtZWiki

problem replying for page subscribers - fixed ? --simon, 2003/07/15 21:17 GMT reply
It's come to light that page subscribers (as opposed to whole-wiki/list subscribers) must use a different address when mailing in to the wiki. Instead of zwiki@zwiki.org, they should use zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org.

Because they were receiving mail with the usual zwiki@zwiki.org reply-to header, it appears that page subscribers have not been able to reply here for some time (they would receive a bounce).

I've just changed this wiki's mail_replyto property from zwiki@zwiki.org to zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org. Hopefully this will allow page subscribers to reply, without breaking anything else. Forgive me, I don't have time to test it now. Post if you have any more information on this.

problem replying for page subscribers - fixed ? --Simon Michael, 2003/07/15 21:32 GMT reply
Also, the mailing list now always sets reply-to to the list.

reST yr. zWiki -- 2003/07/15 23:10 GMT reply
While the default allowed_page_types now includes reStructured Text (reST or RST), in order to use the reST option on your own zWiki, you must also install a reSt renderer ("rendering engine"?), is that correct?

Note: At the top of pages I try to render as reST, I get an error message: "Could not import reStructuredText" and the entire page comes out wrapped in a pre tag.

RestructuredText Document for Zope cited at RestructuredText has been superceded by =>

Restructured Text backport for Zope 2.6

Is this what should be installed?

That page says: "To install the package you need to unpack the archive in the top-level folder of your Zope installation." Does this mean in /Zope/Products? Or ... ?

Also, at RestructuredText, it says:


> out of the box, RST doesn't permit HTML (or DTML)

Has someone sorted out how to do this?

A finer point: would mixing reST and/or HTML / DTML be going against the grain of reST?

Are there other DocUtils to address this (I may be aiming over my head on that one)?

thnx,

--LaT

debugging zope ZMI getslice problem --BillSeitz, 2003/07/16 02:35 GMT reply
Tiny bit more progress noted at BillSeitz:ZopeGetSliceBug - if anyone sees that there's a little help debugging that would suddenly make my life easier, I'd love it. thx

reST yr. zWiki --Simon Michael, 2003/07/16 02:43 GMT reply

> While the default allowed_page_types now includes reStructured Text
> (reST or RST), in order to use the reST option on your own zWiki,
> you must also install a reSt renderer ("rendering engine"?), is that
> correct?

Yes, you must install the reST software since it's not yet included with zope.


> "Restructured Text backport for Zope
> 2.6":http://www.zope.org/Members/ajung/reStructuredText/
>
> Is this what should be installed?

Yes.


> That page says: "To install the package you need to unpack the archive
> in the top-level folder of your Zope installation." Does this mean in
> /Zope/Products? Or ... ?

Just unpack it so that the reStructuredText directory is somewhere in zope's python path. On this site I put it at /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/reStructuredText.


>> out of the box, RST doesn't permit HTML (or DTML)
>
> Has someone sorted out how to do this?

No.


> A finer point: would mixing reST and/or HTML / DTML be going against
> the grain of reST?

At a guess I'd say most reST folk would frown. I'd like to have that ability though.

Re: 0-20-0: altering available_page_types (a how to) --Simon Michael, 2003/07/16 02:50 GMT reply
laura trippi writes:
> I've just upgraded to 0-20-0 (from 0-15-0) and -- thanks for the
> streamlined, simplified page_types! I think the selection in general is
> great, very friendly (to the larger wiki community).

Yay, thanks for the feedback Laura.


> So I drafted a little "how to". Where to put it? I wasn't sure so figured
> I'd just email it out. =}

Exactly right. Until we think of something better, I'm adding it to the FAQ.

bounced: reST yr: wikimail formatting --laura trippi, 2003/07/16 05:49 GMT reply
hey, I sent this earlier today, using reply to a message from GeneralDiscussion (my own message, which looks weird on the wiki page). I didn't alter the subject line, am I supposed to? (I did alter the subject line on this one.)

--LaT :

 -------- Original Message --------
 Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
 <snip>
 Reason: Could not connect to remote machine: Connection refused

On the page GeneralDiscussion (as opposed to in my email client), the formatting of the message that this message responds to is a bit screwed up.

I composed it in the "comments" field at GeneralDiscussion, not my email client. On the zWiki page, the "pre" tag gets sucked up by zwiki (it doesn't get rendered), and additional line breaks are being spit in where I had inserted single blank lines between paragraphs.

The email client view is exactly what I intended, however. Let's see what happens to this one, composed in my email client (Mozilla 1.0, MacOSX?; yeah, yeah, time to upgrade).

S'up? Wikimail is cool but I feel like there's a few secret handshakes happening that are off-putting to new users. It also seems that for the zwiki.org development community, wikimail via email clients has to some extent (a rather large extent?) pre-empted visiting pages via the browser, is that correct?

That's not a value judgement, just trying to grok what's happening around here. =}

LaT

Re: call for help - bug investigators --PieterB, 2003/07/16 14:27 GMT reply
Sorry, no time to help this week. Next week I'm sailing, so no wiki'ing then.

Note that Plone 1.1 alpha 2 is out, and might contain Zwiki if a migration script to move out of CMFWiki is included. I thought Sidnea wrote such a facility for NewZopeOrg?. Anybody tried Zwiki with Plone 1.1 alpha 2? Anybody knows the current status of migrating CMFWiki to Zwiki.

See you after my holidays,

PieterB

bounced: reST yr: wikimail formatting --Simon Michael, 2003/07/16 15:39 GMT reply

> hey, I sent this earlier today, using reply to a message from
> GeneralDiscussion (my own message, which looks weird on the wiki
> page). I didn't alter the subject line, am I supposed to?

No,


> Reason: Could not connect to remote machine: Connection refused

this means zope was down when mailin tried to do it's thing. My setup isn't smart enough to retry when this happens. The site has been restarting a lot lately due to google crawling and just general lack of breathing room (memory). Sorry for this flakiness.


> On the page GeneralDiscussion (as opposed to in my email client),
> the formatting of the message that this message responds to is a bit
> screwed up.

Yes (I fixed it). The downside of having HTML available in STX, your pre tag messed up the whole remaining page. Unfortunately STX's single quotes don't quote HTML, so you have to use ::, or write < ;, or obfuscate it some how (leave a space after the bracket, leave off the brackets entirely.


> the zwiki.org development community, wikimail via email clients has to
> some extent (a rather large extent?) pre-empted visiting pages via the
> browser, is that correct?

I don't know to what extent.. I tend to be about 50-50 myself. If I've mailed in something questionable that I fear may not format well, I'll check it in the browser.

Page rendition problem after creating a ZWiki Web in ZMI --ftour, 2003/07/16 15:59 GMT reply
I'm having the same problem as described in entry 16 in GeneralDiscussion; "In my wiki I see the source instead of the rendered html..." The minute I edit (or add a comment to) a wiki page, the core page is rendered as text. Header and footer are OK, though. Environment: SuSE Linux 8.1, Zope 2.6.1, ZWiki-0.20.0, ZWiki Web newly added at root of ZMI with type commonplace02 (Jordan Carswell's template).

Page rendition problem after creating a ZWiki Web in ZMI --Simon Michael, 2003/07/16 17:04 GMT reply
Thanks for the report, see KnownIssues for the workaround.

Python code in a comment makes big problem (PurpleNumbers) -- 2003/07/16 17:48 GMT reply
I just pasted a diff and the new ZWikiPurple?.py module to the PurpleNumbers page.

As a result, page formatting has gone completely haywire. Viewing source of the web page shows the first 3/4's of my post has been deleted along with all prior page comments. Editing the page shows all the data.

wikimail formatting & crawling --laura trippi, 2003/07/16 18:11 GMT reply
thanks, Simon!


> The site has been
> restarting a lot lately due to google crawling and just general lack
> of breathing room (memory).

Oh, that's fine, it's the mystery that gets to me. Thanks for the explanantion.

But re: google crawling: I've been guarding this email address closely from the spambots but suddenly, as of this morning, I'm starting to get hit. Can spambots crawl the site too and snarf out our emails?

Darn, I didn't consider that. If so, I'll switch a different address.


> your
> pre tag messed up the whole remaining page. Unfortunately STX's single
> quotes don't quote HTML, so you have to use ::, or write < ;, or
> obfuscate it some how (leave a space after the bracket, leave off the
> brackets entirely.

My bad, thanks. I still have trouble w/escaping things in STX. So to speak. =}

LaT

Page rendition problem after creating a ZWiki Web in ZMI --ftour, 2003/07/16 18:50 GMT reply
Thanks. One more thing, my ZWiki Web was installed with no default properties defined. Is this normal? The title property is assigned during installation, of course, and I've just set page_type to "dtmlhtml" as suggested in the KnownIssues document, so I guess all other properties are owner-assigned, is this correct?

Python code in a comment makes big problem (PurpleNumbers) --Simon Michael, 2003/07/17 00:34 GMT reply
Your ::-quoting hasn't worked; the text being quoted needs to be more indented than the paragraph containing the ::. Also there should be a blank line after the ::.

I see that it didn't come intact through wikimail either; when you send direct to the wiki (as opposed to the mail list) we all receive Zwiki's idea of a nice tidy wiki comment - wrapped and filled. A downside of this recent change.

Thanks very much, will integrate asap.

comment moved to PurpleNumbers

moving this thread back to the purple page --Simon Michael, 2003/07/17 01:18 GMT reply
I meant to direct that last post to PurpleNumbers, to keep the discussion intact. Moving it there now.

Re: moving this thread back to the purple page --Simon Michael, 2003/07/17 01:21 GMT reply
PPS - careful when replying to my mispost, or you'll end up here as I did! Change the page in the subject if necessary. Hope this does not confuse.

using a Catalog --BillSeitz, 2003/07/17 18:06 GMT reply
Two questions:

  1. does the:
     "Catalog()#Catalog(lastEditTime=_.DateTime()-7,lastEditTime_usage='range:min')"
    

code improve the performance of the loop?

  1. Am I correct in understanding that if looping through a catalog I can only reference properties that have been cached as metadata tables? What can I do if I have a big field I want to use in some cases, so I don't want to cache all the values? Context: WebSeitzWiki:FrontPage includes the full contents of a page if it's a blog page (as defined by the id starting with a "z"). When not using a catalog, I just reference 'src'; but when I'm pulling from the catalog that ends up including the src of FrontPage, not of the page I'm looping past. Should I:

Further stuff --BillSeitz, 2003/07/17 21:55 GMT reply
see WebSeitzWiki:ZopeCatalog

using a Catalog --Simon Michael, 2003/07/17 22:26 GMT reply
Hi Bill -


> 1. does the::
>
> "Catalog()#Catalog(lastEditTime=_.DateTime?()-7,lastEditTime_usage='ran
> ge:min')"

(ouch, mail mangling. I think we're going to have to revert that mail-filling feature, or make it ignore indented text.)


> code improve the performance of the loop?

Is that from RecentChanges? ? I think I just failed to get the "last seven days" query working.


> 2. Am I correct in understanding that if looping through a catalog I
> can only reference properties that have been cached as metadata
> tables? What can I do if I have a big field I want to use in some
> cases, so I don't want to cache all the values? Context:

Directly, yes only stuff in the metadata. Use getObject to get the complete object so you can access other stuff.


> WebSeitzWiki:FrontPage includes the full contents of a page if it's a
> blog page (as defined by the id starting with a "z"). When not using a
> catalog, I just reference 'src'; but when I'm pulling from the catalog
> that ends up including the src of FrontPage, not of the page I'm
> looping past. Should I:

src is a synonym for text. Do you have text in your metadata ? Probably not, because it may be large. So do getObject.text(). ZwikiBlog has an example.

Hope this helps.

using a Catalog --Simon Michael, 2003/07/17 22:30 GMT reply

PS src showed your FrontPage's source because of zope's namespace lookup - it wasn't in REQUEST, it wasn't in your catalog metadata fields, bingo it's a method on the current object (the calling page).

Re: call for help - bug investigators (fwd) --PieterB, 2003/07/17 22:53 GMT reply
On Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 05:12:42PM +0200, PieterB wrote: | Hi Sidnei, | | Can you tell me if there is a way of migrating CMFWiki to Zwiki. | This is necessary for getting Zwiki into Plone 1.1. I've posted | the following message on the GeneralDiscussion of Zwiki. Please | reply to zwiki@zwiki, so that other can read your response too.

Zope.org was running a old version of ZWiki and not CMFWiki. It wasnt even running CMF, so I had to do nothing to migrate the wikis.

[]'s
Sidnei da Silva (dreamcatcher)

PS Simon: Sidnei also cc'd this message to zwiki@zwiki, but I think it was not accepted because he isn't subscribed to the list/GeneralDiscussion. What's the current policy on mailing into zwiki? Do you read it from time to time, or is it discarded because of the high amount of spam?

using a Catalog --BillSeitz, 2003/07/18 01:40 GMT reply
Yup, that did the trick. Thx!

Why does ZwikiBlog use dtml-in "catalog()()" instead of just dtml-in Catalog ??

aside: getSlice problem resolved --BillSeitz, 2003/07/18 01:44 GMT reply
per WebSeitzWiki:ZopeGetSliceBug - the whole problem was from me having a wiki page with id=URL!

Search interface --BillSeitz, 2003/07/18 02:37 GMT reply
Am I the only one not thrilled by the current Search interface?

SearchPage? code --BillSeitz, 2003/07/18 02:47 GMT reply
Do you have text in your Catalog? The code sure looks that way... is the code here different from what's in the distribution? (I've made my style changes, so I can't trust my version...)

Re: call for help - bug investigators (fwd) --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 13:02 GMT reply
PieterB <pieterb@gewis.nl> writes:
> | Can you tell me if there is a way of migrating CMFWiki to Zwiki.

(That O.P. should really try a search on zwiki.org or google.)


> PS Simon: Sidnei also cc'd this message to zwiki@zwiki, but I think
> it was not accepted because he isn't subscribed to the
> list/GeneralDiscussion. What's the current policy on mailing into zwiki?

That's right, the zwiki list rejects mail from non-subscribers to keep out spam. This is unfortunate. Possibly we should set up spam checking and open it up again (but more work, and only partially effective :().


> Do you read it from time to time, or is it discarded because of the high
> amount of spam?

Eh ? I read it every day. zwiki list traffic == zwiki.org wiki traffic ! The spam has stopped since I closed the list a month or two ago. Hope this makes things clearer.

Search interface --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 13:19 GMT reply

> Am I the only one not thrilled by the current Search interface?

Nope. Go for it! I think there's a SearchPageNG? project at ZwikiDevelopment?.

One choice is whether to make use of, or require, catalog.

But let's not throw away the existing simple search either, yet.


> * Even when doing a title search, I prefer listing all matches, not
> just jumping to the first one

Yes, I dropped that feature (JumpSearch) a while back.


> * and I see some weird results - when I jumpsearch for !Search I get
> a short list of pages, the first couple of which don't include the
> word Search in the title!

Sure; SearchPage? simply searches the page text IIRC.

test 1 --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 16:02 GMT reply

reposting some messages --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 16:03 GMT reply
Several of the last flurry of mails I sent to the list didn't appear on GeneralDiscussion. Did I overwhelm mailin with simultaneous posts (known weakness), was zope restarting due to memory growth, had GeneralDiscussion grown long enough to trigger the regexp max recursion error ? One of those no doubt.

So I've shortened GeneralDiscussion and will now re-send the messages. Apologies to list subscribers who may receive these duplicates, or if we're lucky mailman will filter them out.

... --ftour, 2003/07/18 16:19 GMT reply
Hi! I'd like to internationalize ZWiki a bit more :-) by attempting a French translation. Looking for a general outline on how to do this. What to do seems to be summed up clearly enough in i18n. My question now is How to do it?

using a Catalog --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 16:27 GMT reply
Good.


> Why does ZwikiBlog use dtml-in "catalog()()" instead of just
> dtml-in Catalog ??

catalog is a zwiki page method (in CatalogAwareness?.py) which returns the catalog being used for this wiki - which might be named "Catalog" or something else, might be in this folder above, or might be "portal_catalog" if we're in CMF. Once we've got the catalog object, we call that to do the search.

Arguably there's unnecessary flexibility here, I've never seen a catalog that wasn't called either Catalog or portal_catalog.

aside: getSlice problem resolved --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 16:36 GMT reply
Ha! Good to know. We have an issue page on this somewhere, whether it's about ZMI breaking or something else I'm not sure.

SearchPage? code --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 16:37 GMT reply

> Do you have text in your Catalog? The code sure looks that way... is

It's indexed, but not in metadata. HowToInstallAZwikiCatalog gives an idea of what's in the zwiki.org catalog (lots).

The site is running essentially 0.20 right now. (You can see what's running at /zwikidir ).

Search interface --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 16:40 GMT reply

>> * and I see some weird results - when I jumpsearch for !Search I get
>> a short list of pages, the first couple of which don't include the
>> word Search in the title!
>
> Sure; SearchPage? simply searches the page text IIRC.

Oh wait - did ! do something special ?

! used to disable jumping, back in the day.

I've just removed that whole section to do with jumping, it was never called.

SearchPage? code --BillSeitz, 2003/07/18 17:14 GMT reply
If text is indexed in the Catalog, then can't you do fulltext/boolean searches, etc.? Or did you not put this in the code because it's too much hassle to manage if most people don't put it in their index?

refactor catalog-vs-bruteforce approaches? --BillSeitz, 2003/07/18 17:19 GMT reply
What I keep seeing is code that looks like:

 try
  dtml-in catalog
   do x
 except
  dtml-in aq.parent
   do x

Have you tried refactoring that to look like:

 if catalog then target=catalog else target=aq.parent
 dtml-in target
  do x

Or does that not work for some reason? (I know sometimes there are some differences, like when you have to call getObject, but do you find lots of differences?)

SearchPage? code --Simon Michael, 2003/07/18 17:51 GMT reply
Bill - yes you can. SearchPage? could use catalog, in fact see the commented out code that does just that. I kept the old code as default so it works in any new wiki, and for it's simpler search semantics (it's just a grep).


> if catalog then target=catalog else target=aq.parent dtml-in target do

Yup there are differences.. but maybe it can be moved more in that direction, I generally just got these working and stopped (exhausted :). I bet you can find some simplifications.

notes about links properties --BillSeitz, 2003/07/18 18:05 GMT reply
see WebSeitzWiki:ZwikiCachedLinks - I'm interested in making use of the graph data, and am noting some particular qualities...

zWiki permissions problems -- 2003/07/20 00:47 GMT reply
I'm having problems with access permissions of 2 kinds, one general (getting the permissions settings to work the way I want), and one specific (access permissions behaving oddly on one page). I decided to post the general question here, to GeneralDiscussion, and enter the specific one into the IssueTracker.

I checked the doc on this at the OldAdministrationGuide2002, FAQInReStructuredText?, PermissionProblems?, and, in the IssueTracker, http://zwiki.org/IssueNo0071ZwikiPermissionsAccessControlFlowUnfriendly . None have answered my questions.

I want to set it up so that viewing and adding comments is accessible to all (anon) but editing, renaming etc. is restriced to authenticated.

What I want:

What's happening: This has turned off the Edit option at the bottom left of all pages. I can still access the Edit panel because on many pages I've inserted a link on the nav bar in the upper right to edit the page (see DTMLzWikiTricks?). It recognizes me b/c it's letting me save the changes and lets me into the 1 page that's got "view" restricted to me. This makes very little sense to me...!

The section on permissions at OldAdministrationGuide2002 suggests that, in order to set the permissions the way I want, I'll have to insert DTML into the template itself. Is this the case? I'd think the settings that I'm trying to implement here, while not the default, would be desired by a lot of people and so more accessible via the securities panel in the ZMI. Also, the set up of that panel implies this kind of control.

Am I misunderstanding something? Should I post this someplace else (the IssueTracker)?

thanks,

LaT

zWiki permissions problems: RESEND --laura trippi, 2003/07/20 01:32 GMT reply
Sorry, the layout of this post came through OK on the page but not in my email client. I wrote it in BBEdit?, tested it in my own Zwiki, and posted it via comments. Am I the only one having trouble with this? Here's a version cleaned up in my email client (mozilla).

I'm having problems with access permissions of 2 kinds, one general (getting the permissions settings to work the way I want), and one specific (access permissions behaving oddly on one page). I decided to post the general question here, to GeneralDiscussion, and enter the specific one into the IssueTracker.

I checked the doc on this at the OldAdministrationGuide2002, FAQInReStructuredText?, PermissionsProblems, and, in the IssueTracker, http://zwiki.org/IssueNo0071ZwikiPermissionsAccessControlFlowUnfriendly . None have answered my questions.

I want to set it up so that viewing and adding comments is accessible to all (anon) but editing, renaming etc. is restriced to authenticated.

What I want:

How I set the permissions:

What's happening: This has turned off the Edit option at the bottom left of all pages. I can still access the Edit panel because on many pages I've inserted a link on the nav bar in the upper right to edit the page.

It recognizes me b/c it's letting me save the changes and lets me into the 1 page that's got "view" restricted to me. This makes very little sense to me...!

The section on permissions at OldAdministrationGuide2002 suggests that, in order to set the permissions the way I want, I'll have to insert DTML into the template itself. Is this the case? I'd think the settings that I'm trying to implement here, while not the default, would be desired by a lot of people and so more accessible via the securities panel in the ZMI. Also, the set up of that panel implies this kind of control.

Am I misunderstanding something? Should I post this someplace else (the IssueTracker)?

thanks,

LaT

zWiki permissions problems: RESEND --Simon Michael, 2003/07/20 06:55 GMT reply

> Sorry, the layout of this post came through OK on the page but not
> in my email client.

Yes, I'm really going to have to drop that paragraph-filling of comments that was introduced in 0.20. It's a shame.


> I'm having problems with access permissions of 2 kinds, one general

(see my reply on http://zwiki.org/IssueNo0553AccessPermissionsDeniedOnPageSetToAcquireAll)


> What I want:
>
> - visitors can view all pages

Visitors (Anonymous) will need Access contents information and View permissions..


> - visitors can view page histories

This may be problematic.. we have a tracker issue describing a zope permissions bug in this area.


> - visitors can contribute comments on any page

and Zwiki: add comments permission..


> - ideally, visitors can view the text input for any page (i.e. can
> open the edit window)

We used to allow this but people found it confusing, so just viewing /editform also requires edit permission. If you need this you could make your own anonymous-accessible DTML Method version of the edit form (and make your edit this page link go there).


> How I set the permissions:
>
> - Add ZWiki Pages: Acquire

To simplify, I would set the permissions explicitly until you see things working as you expect. Then, acquire them and debug any problems with that.


> What's happening: This has turned off the Edit option at the
> bottom left of all pages. I can still access the Edit panel because on
> many pages I've inserted a link on the nav bar in the upper right to
> edit the page.

Yes. The default skin doesn't show the edit link if you don't have permission to use it (anonymous visitors in your case). Sometimes you want it to show and trigger a login form. Just find the relevant condition in the wikipage template and force it to always on.


> It recognizes me b/c it's letting me save the changes and lets me
> into the 1 page that's got "view" restricted to me. This makes very
> little sense to me...!

There are some typical browser authentication quirks. Sometimes they depend on whether you're using basic (browser dialog) or cookie-based (login web page) authentication. One of them is that sometimes a browser will keep showing the non-authenticated version of a page even after you've logged in (the page works (cached ?), so it doesn't bother presenting it's new authentication credentials to the server). Does shift-refresh make things better ?


> The section on permissions at OldAdministrationGuide2002 suggests that, in
> order to set the permissions the way I want, I'll have to insert DTML
> into the template itself. Is this the case? I'd think the settings

I think it's saying what I say above.. customize the wikipage template if you want the edit link always displayed. Yes that's the case.

Isn't displaying the edit link only when the user has edit permission intuitive ? The alternative is to always show it. I feel more often you don't want to bother the user with something they can't use.

zWiki permissions problems: RESEND --SimonMichael, 2003/07/20 07:02 GMT reply

> This may be problematic.. we have a tracker issue describing a zope permissions bug in this area.

Oh never mind.. that's do with accessing the versions in the full history, and restoring them. But just using Zwiki's diff browser to step back through history should work fine.

Ok.. it's midnight and hot here in LA, and my arms are burning.. never a good thing. Signing out!

zWiki permissions problems: RESEND --laura trippi, 2003/07/20 09:41 GMT reply
Thanks, Simon!

I've got it working well now
so far, anyway!

Just for the record, I'm leaving acquire checked and being utterly explicit in checking the permissions I want, for View, Access contents, and all actions affecting zWiki's.

Leaving "acquire" checked seems to make a difference, this is part of what's confusing me.


>>- visitors can view page histories
>
>
> This may be problematic.. we have a tracker issue describing a zope
> permissions bug in this area.

Okie, I'll check that out.


> We used to allow this but people found it confusing, so just viewing
> /editform also requires edit permission. If you need this you could
> make your own anonymous-accessible DTML Method version of the edit
> form (and make your edit this page link go there).

Right, I saw the discussion on this in the IssueTracker. It makes more sense the way you have it. I have a work around that doesn't require going into the template.

The real problem was coming from not getting the edits option even for authenticated, when it "recognizes" me (with edit explicitly given to authenticated and "acquire" NOT checked). This is what leaving "acquire" seems to affect, which I don't understand.

I don't think it was any of the browser problems. I have cookies enabled, I've tried refresh. Anyway, it's working this way.

The Edit tab issue, you're right, it's more intuitive this way. I have a little dtml method that allows me to insert a kind of nav bar at the top right of a zWiki page, to jump to the bottom or open for editing; I can use that but should also note that it requires permissions!

thanks again,

LaT

zWiki permissions problems --laura trippi, 2003/07/21 01:33 GMT reply
Ooops, almost, but not quite. =}

Question: I now have checked both "acquire" and the specific roles I want enabled for each action. This seems to help, but:

I think this needs to be made fully explicit in the docs here. I've spent hours tweaking and puzzling over it, and it's pretty frustrating. Again, I'm pursuing this partly b/c it's an arrangement I think is fairly common and the existing doc didn't explain it fully to me. Can I add it someplace and, if so, where?

Remaining issues

With "Zwiki: Edit pages" set for: acquire, authenticated, manager, owner, it still doesn't show me the "edit" link until and unless I also log into the ZMI.

Because I have manual links to the editform on some pages, I can get in and give it my username/password. It then recognizes me when I post a comment (it shows my name), but still doesn't give me the edit tab.

I can work around it, but if I wanted a group wiki w/editing reserved for authetnicated, it would be a problem.

Sorry, I know this is small potatoes, but it's basic zWiki functionality that affects (and confuses) ordinary users. Thnx!

LaT

zwiki permissions problems --SimonMichael, 2003/07/21 07:13 GMT reply
NB: "zWiki" spelling is considered harmful around here :)

I've never seen a situation where the "acquire" checkbox made any difference once you have the permissions explicitly set.

"inherited roles".. are you asking where the "acquiring" comes from ? From the parent folder. You can step up through the parents and see what permissions would be acquired by a child.

In my experience, zope permissions are complicated and can be very confusing, but they are reliable. So far there's always been a logical explanation in the end. VerboseSecurity? helps. If you want to give me manage access, I can take a look at your setup.

hang in there --SimonMichael, 2003/07/21 07:34 GMT reply
Yes the site has become very crashy, restarting constantly. Will investigate when I can.

zwiki permissions problems --SimonMichael, 2003/07/21 17:42 GMT reply
Laura - just FYI I'm looking at a similar-sounding issue with someone else (d2m on #zwiki). His wiki seems to be ignoring Zwiki: edit pages permission so that the editform is always visible (reverse of your situation, if I understand it). The other permissions seem to be working normally. Could "ignores Zwiki: edit pages permission" cover the strangeness you're seeing ?

feedback on WikiLog? showing list of WikiWord?-s in page --BillSeitz, 2003/07/21 18:34 GMT reply
I'm playing with what's appropriate to show on the FrontPage of a WikiLog? for non-blog-type pages. As an experiment, I'm currently showing (WebSeitzWiki:FrontPage) all the WikiWord?-s contained in the page (wrote a PythonScript to take canonicalLinks, make it unique, and convert to string). I'd like some feedback/brainstorming...

Re: [IssueNo0553? access permissions denied on page set to acquire all] ideas --laura trippi, 2003/07/21 20:54 GMT reply

I meant ZWikiMatters. When I viewed that page as anonymous it prompted for authentication. Same thing at LaurazWiki:ZWikiSphere.

What, OH NO! It was working yesterday, I thought. I'm back on it, thanks for checking it!

I have the impression the dtml-vars are doing something anonymous doesn't have permission for.

But, that would be weird. They're just little snippets of code. Hm.

thnx,

LaT

Problem with Plone + ZWiki: editform for new page edits current page --Andreas Mayer, 2003/07/21 22:09 GMT reply
Hello,

I have problems to setup a ZWiki under Plone. Every time I try to create = a new page, I get an editform for the current page instead of an empty = form for the new page to be created. For example, if I add the WikiName "ANewPage?" to the "FronPage?" and click on the question mark, I will get = an editform with the contents of "FrontPage" instead of an empty form for "ANewPage?". Has anyone got a clue what goes wrong?

I am using Zope 2.6.1, CMF 1.3.1, CMFPlone? 1.0.3, and the current CVS = head for ZWiki 0.20. I have used the instructions at = http://zwiki.org/ZwikiAndCMF for the installation of the ZWiki for Plone. The problem only occurs, = when placing the ZWiki inside a Plone Site. Ordinary ZWikis? outside of Plone = run without a problem.=20 --=20 Andreas Mayer

a hack to support FOAF --BillSeitz, 2003/07/21 23:48 GMT reply
see WebSeitzWiki:z2003-07-21-JoiningFoaf

Re: [IssueNo0553? access permissions denied on page set to acquire all] ideas --laura trippi, 2003/07/21 23:57 GMT reply
Okie, got it! Yes, it was a dtml-var, one to show backlinks on the page itself. I wrote based on 0.11.0 last summer:

  <dtml-let thispage=id>

  <p /><span class="fontBlue bold">Backlinks:</span>
  <dtml-in "aq_parent.objectValues(spec='ZWiki Page')" sort=id>
  <dtml-if "_.string.find(_.getitem('sequence-item').raw,thispage) != -1">
  <a href="&dtml-wiki_base_url;/<dtml-var id url_quote>"><dtml-var id></a>
  <b>::</b>

  </dtml-if>
  </dtml-in>
  </dtml-let>

The last 2 entries in the TraceBack? show:

     * Module AccessControl.DTML, line 32, in guarded_getitem
     * Module AccessControl.ZopeGuards, line 94, in guarded_getitem

So it's the "getitem" that's a problem, I guess.

I tried grabbing code from 0.20.0 for backlinks.pt and modifying it. It's not working. Can I use ZPT in a method optionally dropped into a zwiki page?

Here's what I tried, just a quick guess:

   <div tal:define="thisparents here/parents;
   backlinks python:here.backlinksFor(thispage);
   sorted_backlinks python:sequence.sort(backlinks,
                                         (('title_or_id', 'nocase',
   'asc'),));">
   <p tal:repeat="bl sorted_backlinks" />
   <span tal:omit-tag="" tal:define="
   blpage bl/title_or_id;
   blisparent python:(blpage in thisparents) #and zwiki_showhierarchy;">
   <strong tal:omit-tag="not:blisparent">
   <a href="blurl" title="bllinktitle"
   tal:attributes="href bl/page_url; title bl/linkTitle;"
   tal:content="blpage">blpage</a>
   </strong>
   <b>::</b>
   </div>

Suggestions? This is intended for optional use on specific pages....

thnx!

LaT

a bit more about the security model (was IssueNo0553?) page set to acquire all] ideas --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 00:14 GMT reply
(This thread insists on coming back to the GD page, because the length of the issue page name in the subject confuses it.. guess we can move the messages over later.)

What, OH NO! It was working yesterday, I thought. I'm back on it, thanks for checking it!

It seems fine now.

But, that would be weird. They're just little snippets of code. Hm.

Aha, but subject to the same security checks as any human visitor. Actually, more: they are allowed to run with only the subset of permissions common to both the user viewing the page and the page owner. Come to think of it, this could conceivably explain your problem. (I don't know, but let me go on about it for a moment since we're here.) Eg: you are viewing the page as an authenticated user, but it is owned (explicitly, or implicitly by acquisition) by a low-privileged user, which limits the capabilities of the embedded dtml.

The rationale for this is documented somewhere on zope.org. Note though it may be making you tear your hair out now :), it is actually one of the very cool and unique features of zope and zwiki. It allows us to have wide-open editable executable code permeating our pages, without this being a completely insane compromise of server security, because it can be kept within a sandbox of limited permissions. (NB: if configured with that low-privileged owner. Which may not be happening by default right now.)

I may be confused, but I think this is a big feature and still unique on the web as far as I know.

feedback on WikiLog? showing list of WikiWord?'s in page --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 00:16 GMT reply
Bah, I mailed this twice but don't see it here:

Bill - a nice skeleton view. How about excerpting the page's first sentence as well ?

Re: [IssueNo0553? access permissions denied on page set to acquire all] ideas --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 00:25 GMT reply
Ah, good. No, you can't paste TAL (page template code) into a wiki page and have it execute; DTML only I'm afraid. Try replacing that .raw with .text(). I think raw is not a public attribute.

Problem with Plone + ZWiki: editform for new page edits current page --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 00:35 GMT reply
Andreas - I see the same thing at http://zwiki.org/plone/FrontPage/editform?page=NewPage :( Thanks for the report. If you have time please repost it in the IssueTracker. This used to work, but I don't see any obvious problem right now.

zwiki permissions problems --laura trippi, 2003/07/22 00:37 GMT reply

I've never seen a situation where the "acquire" checkbox made any difference once you have the permissions explicitly set.

Right, I think I just get dizzy after a certain amount of testing. Now unchecked, leaving only explicit permissions set. Same general problems w/the edit form: it's only appearing after I've logged into the ZMI.

"inherited roles".. are you asking where the "acquiring" comes from ?
From the parent folder. You can step up through the parents and see
what permissions would be acquired by a child.

Yes, I was trying to step all the way back up to the top. I thought there defaults for the acquire set someplace. I mean, till now, all my ZWiki permissions were to "acquire," so I thought there'd be default roles allocated in, say, the control panel?

In my experience, zope permissions are complicated and can be very confusing, but they are reliable. So far there's always been a logical explanation in the end. VerboseSecurity? helps.

Yes, I've spent countless hours... =} I'll get around to VerboseSecurity? soon.

If you want to give me manage access, I can take a look at your setup.

Oh, thanks! I've set up an account for you at root. How do we safely exhange the rest?=}

LaT

tweaked message headings, purple numbers --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 00:40 GMT reply
Trying a more compact message heading format, without the numbers. The uglier, but more permanent message id url is used.

Those who aren't subscribed to the whole wiki, PurpleNumbers has made progress. Check that page for a demo (Engelbart-style fine-grained linking).

zwiki permissions problems --laura trippi, 2003/07/22 00:48 GMT reply

just FYI I'm looking at a similar-sounding issue with someone else (d2m on #zwiki). His wiki seems to be ignoring Zwiki: edit pages permission so that the editform is always visible (reverse of your situation, if I understand it). The other permissions seem to be working normally.

Yes, I saw the IssueTracker on that one.

Could "ignores Zwiki: edit pages permission" cover the strangeness you're seeing ?

I suppose it could, although it does allow authenticated to submit edits. Again, this is possible b/c I have a dtml method on many pages that provides a direct link to the edit form for the page.

For example, at http://www.netvironments.org/laurazWiki/ZWikiSphere

Unauthenticated, I can

Hope this helps! and thanks much,

LaT

zwiki permissions problems --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 01:12 GMT reply
Laura - I know that dizzy feeling well :) You are right to verify everything. The root of the acquisition tree is the root folder (not in a virtual host). If you look at it's security tab you'll see there's no acquire checkboxes there. I'm gone - catch me in #zwiki tomorrow.

Internationalization --ftour, 2003/07/22 02:08 GMT reply
I'm using ZWiki 0.19 in a Plone site sitting on a shared Zope instance and I need to translate the "<--You are here" string in Contents, the "contents" string in the navigation trail (wikipage_header), and a few other tidbits like the "Last edited" timestamp. As member of a shared instance, I have no control over anything installed in the Products directory. Any suggestions? Showing a localized wiki contents (with page hierarchy and all) for one thing would be a real bonus.

feedback on WikiLog? showing list of WikiWord?'s in page --BillSeitz, 2003/07/22 02:37 GMT reply
I'm thinking about showing the first sentence/paragraph. Also about last-edit-comment (not sure of the name yet - also, when someone Appends a comment, do you buy chance copy that Subject to the last-edit-comment?)

Internationalization --Simon Michael, 2003/07/22 17:44 GMT reply
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (ftour) writes:

I'm using ZWiki 0.19 in a Plone site sitting on a shared Zope instance and I need to translate the "<--You are here" string in Contents, the "contents" string in the navigation trail (wikipage_header), and a few other tidbits like the "Last edited" timestamp. As member of a shared instance, I can't access anything installed in the Products directory.

That's ok, I think all these are doable using skin templates. Look for "customization" docs around the wiki; here's the non-plone procedure: make contentspage and wikipage page templates in your wiki folder, based on the defaults .

In plone, in portal_skins customize the zwiki_plone skin, and edit contentspage and wikipage_header. The first procedure might also work, I'm not sure.

Does this help ? I'd like to know if this works for you.

The next, step is to figure out how to make it possible to ship these translations with the product and have the skins present the appropriate strings based on server locale (or browser language settings ?) I wonder if the zwiki_plone skin templates are already set up for this.

Re: [IssueNo0557? Plone + ZWIki?: editform for new page edits current page] --Simon Michael, 2003/07/22 17:47 GMT reply

This has been an ongoing problem that has been commented on several times by users but doesn't seem to be getting much attention. In a

I've just become aware of it.. where were the previous reports ?

Laura's blog, more on security --Simon Michael, 2003/07/22 18:59 GMT reply
I've recently (FINALLY) gotten bookmarks that work well enough (in Firebird) to make it pleasurable to check a few blogs in a semi-regular way. It's a whole world I haven't been keeping up with.

Checked LauraTrippi's blog this morning. Wow - that's a hell of a post Laura. Thank you for the kind words. (Heck! I shared a post with Chogyam Trungpa :) Folks, you may want to check it out

I felt bad telling you how to spell Zwiki, knowing you had your reasons. :) (I found them in the blog - interesting). Of course do what you like. For the record, here's my thinking: unconventional hard-to-predict capitalization is mental clutter that distracts, makes it harder to communicate, guess page names etc. (and, brings to mind those annoying marketing brand names); it's simpler to treat wiki and zwiki as plain old words. So, I switched to using Zwiki instead of ZWiki where possible.. exceptions are the ZWiki page, and the product directory and class names which have been too much work to change. More on Glossary.

(sigh) with that off my chest.. what else..

Yes, that is a cool subject. It kept those last words after I changed the subject, due to them being on another line which I didn't see. What, is this thing alive ?

To clarify a little - maybe - one of Wiki's key strengths is radical openness. One of Zope's is fine-grained, manageable security. Another is a pretty good server-side scripting language that obeys this security model (DTML). Zwiki extends wiki's openness by supporting editable (yet restrictable) embedded DTML.

The downside of this picture right now ? I don't know how actually restricted new zwikis are by default these days, and I'm not sure we've done enough to make zwiki admins aware of the potential risk here: if the pages acquire the owner of the folder, and that's a manager, and if you happen to be logged in as manager, and you browse some wiki page where someone has left a DTML snippet to delete all pages, even delete everything in your zope root folder - why, that should work. Though repair should be easy enough, thanks to zope's undo history. What about quietly adding a user to the root user folder ? I don't know, might be possible.

I'm taking the opportunity to hash these things out some more so that we can put together the SecurityDiscussion page and make all this a bit more explicit. I've been steering towards the ability to have a locked-down no-DTML wiki, for those who don't care about executable content. But I'd like to make fully DTML-enabled wikis the default if it can be made safe enough out of the box,

Laura's blog, more on security --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 19:26 GMT reply
PS - I suppose the alternative to stressing about such things is to adopt the wiki trust philosophy at the level of whole zope servers. "We have many servers, many cooperating users, vandalism will be rare, we'll all keep an eye on things together, we'll keep backups, repairs will be easy, the resulting simplicity and utility far outweighs the downside."

But I think we may as well do all we can to remove this source of fear and doubt, an obstacle to Zwiki acceptance.

dtml thoughts --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/22 19:42 GMT reply
In my year and half of zwiki'ing I've seen vandalism, but never a dtml attack. I understand the fear and doubt, though, it's repeated over and over when someone wants DTML in, say, a Squishdot post.

zwiki's zope security has probably helped with the F&D issues if wiki content, with a "shields-up" possibility, leaving an opportunity to remove such uncertainty as this statement: " Then again, anybody can edit this wikipedia Wiki, so I don't know how reliable this is. :-/" - http://zephyrfalcon.org/weblog/arch_d7_2003_07_19.html#e286

Please remember that shields-down contains the least-barriers to entry (mixed metaphor :? ) in an intranet. Finding the Javascript shield removal flag in the source was great, as I didn't have to edit the code which disables javascript.

between tasks, forgive the terseness.

Jim Fulton overheard on zope3-dev --Simon Michael, 2003/07/22 21:47 GMT reply

(Lately, as I've been thinking about how good Zope 2 is and supporting "scripters" and realizing that Zope 3 needs needs to be just as supportive of that audience, I've come to realize that there's a place for quick and dirty programming. The trick is providing a clean evolution from dirty to clean.)

(yay.)

feedback on WikiLog? showing list ofWikiWord's in page --Bill Seitz, 2003/07/22 22:16 GMT reply
What about a call to _setLastLog(subject_heading)?

Also, I noticed that you can't save an Edit where you enter a Note (log) without making an actual change to the body. How would you feel about changing that behavior?

See WebSeitzWiki:TrackingWikiChanges

Simon Michael wrote:

zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (BillSeitz) writes:
  
last-edit-comment (not sure of the name yet - also, when someone
Appends a comment, do you buy chance copy that Subject to the
last-edit-comment?)
    

Sorry, I don't. :) How about something like::

<dtml-let text="text()" start="text.rfind(Subject: )" end="text.find(\n,start)" lastsubject="text[start:end]">

feedback on WikiLog? showing list ofWikiWord's in page --Simon Michael, 2003/07/22 22:47 GMT reply

What about a call to _setLastLog(subject_heading)?

We do that (see _handleEditText).

Also, I noticed that you can't save an Edit where you enter a Note (log) without making an actual change to the body. How would you feel about changing that behavior? See WebSeitzWiki:TrackingWikiChanges

Not sure. I'll check your page.

feedback on WikiLog? showing list --BillSeitz, 2003/07/22 22:54 GMT reply
re handleEditTest: duh, that was smart. OK, I rolled that out live, in place of the contained links, on WebSeitzWiki:FrontPage.

feedback on WikiLog? showing list --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 23:23 GMT reply
Bill - I'd be -1 on that I guess, as it doesn't feel like an obvious, natural operation.

What happened above by the way: your html paste includes a HTML start tag. Zwiki accepts this but displays only what's inside the HTML tags (so naive users can paste in a whole web page).

handling HTML mail --SimonMichael, 2003/07/22 23:47 GMT reply

Might be worth catching that in the code

Agreed. I thought you had pasted this in via the web, I'm surprised HTML mail got through as both the mailing list and our mailin.py should sanitize it..

Laura's blog, more on ... reST? --laura trippi, 2003/07/23 01:21 GMT reply
Thanks, Simon! I should have sent a note about posting it, but ... by the time I finished, I kind of crashed. =}

I felt bad telling you how to spell Zwiki, knowing you had your reasons.

I was glad you did, actually, it had been bugging me.

(I found them in the blog - interesting).

Funnily enough, the email I sent to GD about this bounced (my typo in the send). Just as well, really! Thanks for explaining your rationale, it makes sense. A little "learning object" in WikiName|s!

one of Wiki's key strengths is radical openness. One of Zope's is fine-grained, manageable security.

This is very clear, and concise! Thanks. I think I'll blog it. =}

Another is a pretty good server-side scripting language that obeys this security model (DTML). Zwiki extends wiki's openness by supporting editable (yet restrictable) embedded DTML.

Yes, I really do like this and thinks there's a lot to explore w/folding DTML into zwiki (it's part what I'm up to in my zwiki, of course).

At the same time, I hate to say this b/c I don't know what it might mean but, while we're on the subject: I have a very strong feeling that reStructured Text is the way to go, you know?

It's so CLEAN! No, it won't let me use all my nifty little CSS tags and DTML snippits, but ... maybe it could. Or, maybe DocUtils has other tools to do similar things or "hinges" we can hook onto somehow ...? I don't know, I'm just brainstorming.

But the urge to switch over to reST/RST has snuck up on me
fast! (Anyone checked which acronym the reStructured text folks are using?) My sense is that it could quickly become the interwiki "glue," a plain text markup standard to enable interoperability across WikiEngines?. And beyond?!
I'm taking the opportunity to hash these things out some more so that we can put together the SecurityDiscussion page and make all this a bit more explicit. I've been steering towards the ability to have a locked-down no-DTML wiki, for those who don't care about executable content. But I'd like to make fully DTML-enabled wikis the default if it can be made safe enough out of the box,

This is great, Simon, thanks! I'll help in whatever small ways I can.

LaT

restructured text, comment fixes --SimonMichael, 2003/07/23 02:07 GMT reply
RST.. I've tried it here a bit (FAQInReStructuredText?). Yes, it's clean but.. so UPTIGHT. Ward has this design principle somewhere on WikiWikiWeb about correct usage being learnable through observable results, not through error messages. Despite it's quirks, STX is better at this and feels more forgiving for someone who doesn't know it's spec by heart (ie 99% of zwiki users). If we can get RST to be a bit more RELAXED - not show error messages by default, even turn a blind eye to the odd bit of HTML or DTML - it could be a contender I think.

Another "small fix" that turned into a full-on code-tweaking session:

ideas --SimonMichael, 2003/07/23 02:24 GMT reply
Dean, I believe I'm +1 on that idea you posted over on Bill's wiki (presenting the last log message in the editform if it seems to be another minor edit by the same user). Patch, anyone ? Something like ?:

 tal:attributes="value python:(here.zwiki_username_or_ip() == here.last_editor and ZopeTime() - here.lastEditTime() < 1) and here.last_log or '';" />

Proposal - in comment headings, turn the email sender's name into a wikiname or make it a freeform link ?

ideas --SimonMichael, 2003/07/23 02:38 GMT reply
With here.ZopeTime(), that seems to be working. Trying freeform links for email names. Yay, at least those were quick.

Message-id and in-reply-to --ftour, 2003/07/23 03:12 GMT reply
Is the in_reply_to attribute optional? I would like to turn it off for a while. How do I do this?

Message-id and in-reply-to --SimonMichael, 2003/07/23 04:00 GMT reply
Not really, it's used if provided. Look in Messages.py, ZWikiPage.py & mailin.py.

Excellent piece by Doc Searls - --SimonMichael, 2003/07/23 15:57 GMT reply
Saving the Net

call for help - get Zwiki into Plone 1.1 --Simon Michael, 2003/07/23 18:47 GMT reply
Runyaga says this will happen when there's a tested migration script from CMFWiki to ZWiki. Here's the script which worked in the past and almost certainly still does: http://zwiki.org/HowToMigrateACMFWiki . Can someone out there volunteer to verify this once with Plone 1.1 ?

If we don't get this done, Plone will continue to ship with the broken CMFWiki.

call for help - get Zwiki into Plone 1.1 --SimonMichael, 2003/07/23 19:45 GMT reply
PS - of course, it goes without saying that the latest crop of zwiki plone breakages will go away also. I'm nudging various people on these.

wiki hits NPR! --SimonMichael, 2003/07/24 15:53 GMT reply
(a radio channel heard across the US). Now, let's see how my GNU/linux audio setup is coping these days..

This and a lot more interesting links found on Laura's blog recently.

a must-see --SimonMichael, 2003/07/24 16:35 GMT reply
A SERIOUSLY COOL flash hack: the World as a Blog

Not just NPR check Google News --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/24 20:02 GMT reply
Some more good stuff on wikis at Google News:

http://tinyurl.com/hn4c

about wikis in the news. The tinyURL above presents a Google News search that brings up about two dozen recent articles in newspapers, some blogs that Google has included in it Google News aggregation and other periodicals on the wiki, how easy it is to use, et cetera, et cetera and so forth.

... --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/24 20:13 GMT reply

"sticky" last log field rocks! --SimonMichael, 2003/07/24 22:34 GMT reply
Another gem! Go Dean!

Unrequested change of page type --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/25 01:06 GMT reply
Hi Simon: I have been running a Zwiki since November and this just turned up for the first time when I edited a page:

Warning: this page's current type (HTML + DTML) is not one of the allowed types for this wiki. Saving this page will change it's type and probably break it.

Looks like the page did break as it does not publish when called as it did before. I don't have selection of page type implemented and wonder how this crept into place. Thanks, John

Unrequested change of page type --SimonMichael, 2003/07/25 16:21 GMT reply
Hi John!

This is to do with the allowed_page_types restriction introduced in a recent release (0.20 I think). This is intended to prevent unknowing DTML use, but I'm not sure it's the right approach. The quickest way to make that page work again is to go to it's ZMI Properties tab and change the page_type field back to dtmlhtml (and don't edit again).

If you want to be able to edit DTML-enabled pages freely, you would need to make a folder lines property called allowed_page_types containing, in your case just: msgstxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml.

Does this help ? No, seems I need more help, see #564 can't get rid of editform's allowed page types warning J.

Re: call for help - bug investigators (fwd) --PieterB, 2003/07/25 20:37 GMT reply

That's right, the zwiki list rejects mail from non-subscribers to keep out spam. This is unfortunate. Possibly we should set up spam checking and open it up again (but more work, and only partially effective :().
Do you read it from time to time, or is it discarded because of the high amount of spam?

Eh ? I read it every day. zwiki list traffic == zwiki.org wiki traffic ! The spam has stopped since I closed the list a month or two ago. Hope this makes things clearer.

Mailman can send mail to the mailinglist owner if an email is rejected (spam/rejection of valid email). As a mailinglist owner you should/could check those rejections from time to time. I use a procmail filter to filter spam from other mailman reject emails. (mail from non-subscriber != spam, hower in most cases it is).

PieterB (back from holidays)

Migrating CMFWiki to Zwiki (needed for Zwiki in Plone 1.1) --PieterB, 2003/07/25 22:23 GMT reply
I refactored HowToMigrateACMFWiki and posted a message about it on the plone-dev mailinglist.

0.21rc1 released --SimonMichael, 2003/07/25 22:48 GMT reply
Hammer on it if you can! This is mostly a bugfix release, which will hopefully be more problem-free than 0.20. see ReleaseNotes.

Universal unrequested page type --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/26 02:30 GMT reply
Hi Simon:

Turns out that when a new page is to be created the blank edit form comes up with:

Warning: this page's current type (Structured Text + DTML) is not one of the allowed types for this wiki. Saving this page will change it's type and probably break it.

Seems like I need a fix that will work to get the whole Zwiki back on track with pages that are able to do the basic wiki routines.

Thanks,

John

... --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/26 02:43 GMT reply
Same problem with the zwikis that are running under Jordan's Commonplace book template. Edited page and the traditional wiki routines now longer work when the page is called. That is probably the same shift that I am experiencing on the plain vanila zwiki. I can get the pages restored by going back into history but nothing works to edit. I will run a test with a brand new instance of wiki :) John

Structured text not rendered in new instance of wiki --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/26 02:55 GMT reply
Hi Simon: Here is how the standard out-of-the-box FrontPage is rendered without translating structured text http://manage.audans.com/test/FrontPage John

Re: [IssueNo0395? zwiki's regular expressions may fail with large pages/sites] --PieterB, 2003/07/26 13:23 GMT reply

I have the problem too. And my page is still not very large. I think this bug is serious for me.

Please provide more information on what your doing, what version you are using, and what problem you are experiencing. If you do so, we might give you some more help.

Structured text not rendered in new instance of wiki --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/26 18:30 GMT reply
Hi Simon: The problem is universal at Zettai.Net where all zwikis operating under the shared ZMI are experiencing the problem as I reported above with the standard wiki page rendering routine derailed some how when version 2.0 was loaded to replace the prior recent version of Zwiki. So not only are all of my Zwikis are down pending what George at Zettai.Net will need to know but I would assume that none of the others are working from a response that I received from George. If we who are hosted at Zettai.Net, I think George, who has over 200 accounts using Zettai.Net for ZMI et cetera, and I would both like to see structured text working again. What does George at Zetta.Net need to do--perhaps regress to a version earlier than 2.0. Many thanks, John

Pinging weblogs.com, create RSS-feed (RFE) --PieterB, 2003/07/26 18:59 GMT reply
Hmmm, maybe an idea (Request for Enhancement) to ping http://www.weblogs.com/ when a comment to Zwiki's GeneralDiscussion is added. To prevent "spamming" of the weblogs.com site, pings can be sent only if the previous added comment was more than (e.g.) 1 hour ago.

Another option is to provide an RSS-feed of the GeneralDiscussion.

That would make Zwiki's GeneralDiscussion a bit more visible for blogreaders. See http://www.soapware.org/weblogsCom for more details.

But first, we must make sure zwiki.org is stable by solving #351 zwiki.org's zope server leaks memory (and hangs/restarts when it reaches quota)

Structured text not rendered in new instance of wiki --ftour, 2003/07/26 19:21 GMT reply
I think IssueNo0546? provides a fix.

Structured text not rendered in new instance of wiki --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/26 20:34 GMT reply
Hi ftour, thanks, but I think the fix for issue 546 may take care of the new instance of wiki where the error comes up as follows on the edit form: "Warning: this page's current type (stxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml) is not one of the allowed types for this wiki. Saving this page will change it's type and probably break it."

But not the instances of Zwiki that were running at the time Zwiki was up graded to 2.0 where the error message on the editform for a page to be created or edited reads: "Warning: this page's current type (Structured Text + DTML) is not one of the allowed types for this wiki. Saving this page will change it's type and probably break it."

I would assume that going back to the prior version would solve both of these problems. Thanks, J.

... --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/26 21:02 GMT reply
What gives on the Zwiki existing at the time of the up grade some pages come up with "Warning: this page's current type (stxprelinkhtml)" instead of " "Warning: this page's current type (Structured Text + DTML)." and some existing pages upon edit display no Warning and can be edited no problem. This does not compute for me as all I did with the Zwiki concerned was load it into the ZMI back in November without doing anything more than creating pages and setting up the forwarding of comments by email to subscribers. Would periodic up grades from one version to the next explain why all pages are not created equal or, rather, different from one another. J.

... --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/26 21:13 GMT reply

A funny one --ftour, 2003/07/26 21:33 GMT reply
Just installed ZWiki-0.21.0rc1 and created a Commonplace Wiki Folder. Whatever I do, edit, create, refresh gives "This page was last edited 7 hours ago." I'd suspect some timezone problem(?). As this is a new Zope, can't say whether "Last edited" behaved any different before. Gotta investigate...

Pinging weblogs.com, create RSS-feed (RFE) --laura trippi, 2003/07/27 08:43 GMT reply
Hm! RSS is great but I'd proceed with some caution here, as you're doing in considering building in the 1hr interval. The signal/noise ratio in the blogosphere has a delicate balance and, for me, anyway, there's a difference still between a weblog and wiki (no offense, wikiwebloggers!).

Would that be one entry for zwiki.org only showing updates to GD?

Re: RSS, is anyone looking at Sam Ruby's project --- PIE/formerly Necho? It's developing fast and seems very promising! I haven't seen anyone in the Zope zone weigh in on it.

http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/FrontPage

The FEED validator already accepts it, and here's a good piece from xml.com:

http://www.xml.com/pub/a/ws/2003/07/08/salz.html

LaT

Pinging weblogs.com, create RSS-feed (RFE) --PieterB, 2003/07/27 09:29 GMT reply
LaT wrote:

Would that be one entry for zwiki.org only showing updates to GD?

Well, I think about adding some code to the "comment" system of Zwiki to be able to ping other blogs or sites such as weblogs.com (based on a property of the page). I think it would be disabled by default, but it would be nice to enable it for GD, because that's getting quite a nice multi-author blog at this moment. I wouldn't enable it for other zwikipages, unless they become a good "blog" on a specific topic (e.g. ZwikiAndPlone).

I think now that the comments are stored in mbox-format, we should try to add something to add a "Keywords"-field to a message/comment, making it possible to add more meta-data to a message/comment (which can be used in lots of nice places). I've added this to the wishlist (IssueNo0561?). Because people hate to manually add meta-data, zwiki would then need some functionality to propose keywords. I did a project using automatic classification, and it worked out quite nice.

Maybe I have some time to do a rewrite of the zwiki comment system (making it asynchronous and/or integrate the clientside Javacript in Zwiki).

Thanks for the links, btw. I also like the http://topicexchange.com initiative (a central server to host TrackBack?-powered channels. It's designed to let anyone effortlessly create a channel to archive pointers to information on a given topic).

Re: Pinging weblogs.com, create RSS-feed (RFE) --PieterB, 2003/07/27 09:42 GMT reply
Why doesn't IssueNo0561? link to #561 Add keywords to a wikipage or wikicomment?. Simon, can you explain this?

By the way: does anybody now a good RSS agregator? I've used Radio Userland in the past, but I didn't like it much enough to buy it. I would really like to combine Zwiki with a blog, but I didn't spent much time on it yet.

wikilinking and rss --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/27 23:29 GMT reply

Why doesn't IssueNo0561?? link to IssueNo0561? Add keywords to a wikipage or wikicomment?

In earlier versions it worked as IssueNo0561? was the ID,and the other the title. Standard wiki links just mapped to ID's, where free-form links also tried (slowly) to map to the title, which was the latter.

In current version linking is only mapped to id's, wherein all punctuation is stripped, and freeform links are more simpler and faster at locating the id.

I used amphetadesk, which is similar to Radio except without the feature to remove what's read, so the latest feeds ended up at the top. It may be different in more recent versions.

Lately I've been using Feed Reader which seems to choke on RDF style RSS feeds.

NetWire? News is also great, but mac only.

Is ZExternalNews? up to date? - http://www.zope.org/Members/odeckmyn/ZExternalNews

You may be interested to try out a hosted aggregator such as Fyuze.

more wikilnking --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/27 23:34 GMT reply

Why doesn't IssueNo0561??? link to ...

I don't think enough people were affected by that to warrant an upgrade script. I for one didn't need it, so never checked. A quick fix (without having to dig up the issue description) is to prefix the IssueNo.. link with your sites RemoteWikiLink?, aka ZWiki:IssueNo0561

Structured text not rendered in new instance of wiki --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/07/28 03:41 GMT reply
Simon: The fix using the wiki property allowed_page_types containing, in your case msgstxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml did not take in either the Zwiki that was up at the time of the version change to 2.0 or the new Zwiki loaded after the version change. See IssueNo0564? can't get rid of editform's allowed page types warning where I added some more detail and a copy of the error message that was generated after the property was added and a page edit attempted. Thanks for your help and your Hurculean efforts on Zwiki's behalf. John

allowed page types, upgrade problems --SimonMichael, 2003/07/29 01:58 GMT reply
John - thanks for the info. I converted your new page to #564 can't get rid of editform's allowed page types warning and I think my followup there will fix it for you. And I've opened #565 no text formatting after upgrade to 0.20 for the general zettai.net issue. Let's discuss that one some more.

Re: Pinging weblogs.com, create RSS-feed (RFE) --SimonMichael, 2003/07/29 02:18 GMT reply
Pieter - bare IssueNo0561 isn't a freeform link and so can't find the issue page with the longer name. I cheat by using a structured text link and relying on partial url lookup: IssueNo0561? .

I don't have an RSS reader either. Emacs' gnus has a nnrss backend, but I haven't seen it work yet.

rc2 released --SimonMichael, 2003/07/29 02:26 GMT reply
Zwiki 0.21rc2 2003-07-28

(link on FrontPage). Good work test squad!

Any hackers out there who can demonstrate zope unit testing skill and write a test for any of these kinds of things, that would also be very welcome.

A funny one --Simon Michael, 2003/07/29 02:38 GMT reply
ftour - you might have/not have a UserOptions? cookie with the timezone ? Try visiting UserOptions? and clearing cookies or setting the timezone option.

rc3 released --Simon Michael, 2003/07/29 03:19 GMT reply
Zwiki 0.21rc3 2003-07-28

allowed page types, ideas for improvement --SimonMichael, 2003/07/29 18:24 GMT reply
The goal of the allowed_page_types property was twofold:

  1. make it possible to restrict users to non-DTML page types when desirable, or to any set of page types for that matter. No getting around it via URL arguments.
  2. make it easier to offer users a simple subset of the plethora of page types.

The editform warning was added to help with the situation where you find yourself editing a page which doesn't fall within the allowed page types, for whatever reason - usually either an old page that hasn't auto-upgraded, or one of the standard DTML pages included in new wikis (RecentChanges?).

But, having to set up, keep track of and update the allowed_page_types property isn't very manageable, and seeing these editform warnings isn't very usable. Alternatives, anyone ?

option 1: First, the editform would once again show all available page types (when change page type permission is available). The list of page types has been tamed and may be more stable henceforth, so this is not so bad. To restrict this list to a subset, you'd have to customize the editform (and you wouldn't be able to prevent someone choosing other types via URL argument).

For DTML control, we could use WikiForNow's model where DTML is enabled/disabled wiki-wide with a special folder property. Similar to purple numbers. Earlier I preferred to keep control in the page types rather than proliferate special options, but things are more stable now. Downside: potentially more confusion over which page types support DTML and which don't. Potential for management complexity remains (have I set the DTML property right on all my wikis ? what about their parent folders ?)

option 2: since DTML control is really about security, the place you'd expect to see it is among the permissions. We could add one more permission: Zwiki: change DTML, Zwiki: edit executable pages or some such, which would be required (in addition to the usual permission) for the following activities:

I think that would cover it. Potential for confusion here too, with a slightly more complicated permissions model, but it should be easier for the editform to explain clearly what's going on.

allowed page types, ideas for improvement --John DeBruyn?, 2003/07/29 18:38 GMT reply
Hi Simon:

Thanks so much for all that you are doing here to stay on top of the page type issues.

I will study to learn more about this aspect of Zwiki and, perhaps, who knows, I may even have some suggestions and/or thoughts on the matter.

And hanks as well for the new release. I sent your notice of release to fix version 2.0 on to Geroge at Zettai.Net,

Much appreciated,

John

-----Original Message----- From: zwiki-bounces@zwiki.org On Behalf Of SimonMichael Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 12:25 PM Subject: GeneralDiscussion allowed page types, ideas for improvement

The goal of the allowed_page_types property was twofold:

  1. make it possible to restrict users to non-DTML page types when desirable, or to any set of page types for that matter. No getting around it via URL arguments.
  2. make it easier to offer users a simple subset of the plethora of page types.

The editform warning was added to help with the situation where you find yourself editing a page which doesn't fall within the allowed page types, for whatever reason - usually either an old page that hasn't auto-upgraded, or one of the standard DTML pages included in new wikis (RecentChanges?).

But, having to set up, keep track of and update the allowed_page_types property isn't very manageable, and seeing these editform warnings isn't very usable. Alternatives, anyone ?

  1. First, the editform would once again show all available page types (when change page type permission is available). The list of page types has been tamed and may be more stable henceforth, so this is not so bad. To restrict this list to a subset, you'd have to customize the editform (and you wouldn't be able to prevent someone choosing other types via URL argument).

For DTML control, we could use WikiForNow's model where DTML is enabled/disabled wiki-wide with a special folder property. Similar to purple numbers. Earlier I preferred to keep control in the page types rather than proliferate special options, but things are more stable now. Downside: potentially more confusion over which page types support DTML and which don't. Potential for management complexity remains (have I set the DTML property right on all my wikis ? what about their parent folders ?)

  1. since DTML control is really about security, the place you'd expect to see it is among the permissions. We could add one more permission: Zwiki: change DTML, Zwiki: edit executable pages or some such, which would be required (in addition to the usual permission) for the following activities:
  • editing a page whose current type supports DTML (or other executable code)
  • changing a page's type to one that supports DTML

I think that would cover it. Potential for confusion here too, with a slightly more complicated permissions model, but it should be easier for the editform to explain clearly what's going on. -- forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion

... --ftour, 2003/07/30 00:48 GMT reply
After upgrading to 21.0rc3 and creating a new Wiki Folder in Plone, I still get duplicate text format types in editform (pagetype x 4) (issue 0549). Also links to complete contents (a nice feature, IMO) seem to have been replaced by breadcrumbs-style display of parents along the way. As things are, the only obvious way I've found to show the complete page hierarchy, besides using the initial FrontPage link, is by appending /map to a wiki page URL. I've looked up properties, but didn't notice anything to that effect.

... --Simon Michael, 2003/07/30 04:07 GMT reply

After upgrading to 21.0rc3 and creating a new Wiki Folder in Plone, I still get duplicate text format types in editform (issue 0549). Also

I can't think why.. sure the upgrade went ok ? What do you see repeated - "StructuredText" ? "pagetype" ?

links to complete contents (a nice feature, IMO) seem to have been replaced by breadcrumbs-style display of parents along the way. As

Yes, Alexander Limi has some work in progress here. Contents will become a tab I believe.

Next Generation WikiMail (WikiMailNG) --PieterB, 2003/07/30 10:00 GMT reply
I've created a WikiMailNG with a proposal for rewriting several parts of WikiMail. I would like your input before I start coding.

... --ftour, 2003/07/30 11:52 GMT reply

Zwiki 0.21rc4 released --Simon Michael, 2003/07/30 19:55 GMT reply
Thanks to Mr A. Limi's design help, some plone usability improvements just landed in the trunk. I feel I'm breaking the release candidate concept here, but we still have two days to release and arguably these are fixes for long-standing bugs.. and I'd rather not go another month without them. Let's see if the gamble pays off. Anyhow, we should live or die by the unit tests and they're all green.

Zwiki 0.21rc4 2003-07-30

Next Generation WikiMail (WikiMailNG) --SimonMichael, 2003/07/30 20:21 GMT reply
Really nice start Pieter, great diagram. I appreciate the indication of where to respond, also. (GeneralDiscussion works for me, but does this indicate that WikiMailDiscussion is not really needed ?)

There are many ways this can be set up obviously, IMHO we should try to document a couple of good solutions, from simple to comprehensive, in a similar style (with diagram). I'll reread this later. I think procmail + spamassassin is a good approach for a fully-comprehensive system. I'm hazy on the connection between your mailqueue and zope/zwiki, and the zwiki process agent. Note we already have all the "secret" zwiki and mailman headers you could need. :)

... --jpinela, 2003/07/30 20:32 GMT reply

cancel subscription

thanks

repeated "Page type" options in plone editform --SimonMichael, 2003/07/30 20:34 GMT reply
I see. Well, it seems there's still something amiss around line 284 in skins/zwiki_plone/editform.pt if you want to play around.. (there seems to be an extra > on line 283 - what if you remove that ?) I wonder why we don't see it at http://zwiki.org/plone/FrontPage/editform . What do you see at PAGEURL/allowedPageTypes ?

repeated "Page type" options in plone editform --SimonMichael, 2003/07/30 20:38 GMT reply
I see. Well, it seems there's still something amiss around line 284 in skins/zwiki_plone/editform.pt if you want to play around.. (there seems to be an extra > on line 283 - what if you remove that ?) I wonder why we don't see it at http://zwiki.org/plone/FrontPage/editform . What do you see at PAGEURL/allowedPageTypes ?

FrontPage --SimonMichael, 2003/07/30 21:01 GMT reply
I don't think ZwikiBlog is too useful on FrontPage; most of this site's activity is in comments, not new pages. If only we had some reliable way to find recent comments across all pages.

Or am I wrong ?

FrontPage --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/30 21:18 GMT reply

If only we had some reliable way to find recent comments across all pages.

Would a read only, non-mailed page that also receieved every comment work?

I'd like the entry seperators to also be a bit more prominent.

issue colours --SimonMichael, 2003/07/30 21:20 GMT reply
Switched the non-issue and wishlist issue colours on this site (now white and gray respectively), and trying issue colours in RecentChanges?.

FrontPage --Simon Michael, 2003/07/30 23:36 GMT reply

Would a read only, non-mailed page that also receieved every comment work?

Yes.. would be interesting to see.. might want to prune it automatically to keep things fast.

I'd like the entry seperators to also be a bit more prominent.

Do you mean page headings on ZwikiBlog, or comment headings ?

Next Generation WikiMail (WikiMailNG) --PieterB, 2003/07/31 00:38 GMT reply

Really nice start Pieter, great diagram. I appreciate the indication of where to respond, also. (GeneralDiscussion works for me, but does this indicate that WikiMailDiscussion is not really needed ?)

I forgot to read the WikiMailDiscussion. There is not much "Next Generation" stuff on it. I read #287 better wikimail after writing the page. I tend to prefer the GeneralDiscussion because there are quite a lot of people reading that. The new unix mbox thingy makes it also possible to easily link to a thread in future. I noticed both gmane and mailman didn't noticed your reply on my message.

There are many ways this can be set up obviously, IMHO we should try to document a couple of good solutions, from simple to comprehensive, in a similar style (with diagram).

Yeah, my thoughts exactly: 1. simple WikiMail: requires zwikifrontend (or curl) only

  1. medium WikiMail: requires procmail, zwikifrontend
  2. fully comprehensive: requires procamil, spamassassin (optional), zwikifrontend and mailman
    I'll reread this later. I think procmail + spamassassin is a good approach for a fully-comprehensive system.

Ok, I hope to finish the procmailrc tommorow. Basic things seem to work, and I even wrote a very crude testcase.

I'm hazy on the connection between your mailqueue and zope/zwiki, and the zwiki process agent.

This is the thing I'm not sure what direction I should take. I think a mailqueue really makes WikiMail more robust (but also more hairy I'm affraid). If Zope or Zwiki's down, mail can be enqued, which would be very nice.

Note we already have all the "secret" zwiki and mailman headers you could need. :)

I didn't dive into the current wiki mail code, yet. I'll find your secrets ;)

Next Generation WikiMail (WikiMailNG) --Simon Michael, 2003/07/31 01:41 GMT reply

and mailman didn't noticed your reply on my message.

I see it there now.

If I understand correctly: MTAs? have all sorts of queueing and retrying functionality built in, but this doesn't apply during local delivery. Local deliveries are expected to succeed or fail first time. So one can use procmail as a buffer between the MTA and zope, which always accepts messages. Once a message is received, procmail could be set up to:

For the zope posting step, Shane Hathaway's idea of using a short-lived ZEO client is worth looking at - it may be on the wiki somewhere.

some ZMI ControlPanel? confusion --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/07/31 13:00 GMT reply
The current cvs update is broken on my site. I have no idea why, how can i find out? I cleared some conflicts during merge of PurpleNumbers and refreshed it and it was ok in ControlPanel?. Even after restarting i couldn't see the concrete error. Just in the ZMI portal dir the WikiFolder? is broken and viewing it gives not found error (and in the breadcrumbs line: This object from ZWiki product is broken).

I am confused by the way ControlPanel?-> Products work: In the past i made some backups of ZWiki dir with names like ZWiki-0.18 etc. in the products folder and they (of course) were shown in CP. But a time ago i went moving them to a new dir in lib/python/away-products so they shouldnt disturb any more, but they still kept showing up in CP. So i deleted them today in the ZMI->CP. Now one single ZWiki product ist there. Why isnt it marked as broken and the error shown when "it IS broken" as seen from above described errors??

FrontPage --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/31 15:49 GMT reply

I'd like the entry seperators to also be a bit more prominent.
Do you mean page headings on ZwikiBlog, or comment headings ?

Headings on ZwikiBlog. I have trouble scanning for the dividing point between pages.

Also, pruning does seem necesary, as well as hiding from RecentChanges?, etc. A file outside of the ZODB might be best?

Thanks --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/31 18:01 GMT reply
Although there are more formal ways of supporting Zwiki, Plone and Open Source development (Sponsorship, etc.)..

There are times when I'd prefer to thank the developers through small, unexpectant tokens for support. Thus, this is a (repeated) suggestion that folks like Simon and other ZwikiContributors create and post an Amazon (or similar, http://www.thinkgeek.com/brain/wishes.cgi ) wishlist.

... --RoyRapoport?, 2003/07/31 23:23 GMT reply
Having a problem with zwiki 0.20.0rc3 and mailouts. Basically, I've

A) got the wiki in /wiki;

B) got a MailHost object as /mh_InternalSMTPHost?

C) Set up the following properties on /wiki:

The interesting thing is that I had to take out the conditional around subscribe, because it wasn't showing. I'm guessing this means Wiki doesn't think I've got the mailout capability, but I don't know why. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, mailout doesn't work
I get no mail outs. No errors either, mind you.

Help?

-roy