Archived GeneralDiscussion.


comments:

catalog hiccup --Simon Michael, Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:12:20 -0700 reply
Should be fixed now.

0.22rc4 released --simon, Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:33:41 -0700 reply
With two fixes.. 0.22 will be deferred until at least tomorrow.

happy labour day --simon, Mon, 01 Sep 2003 10:56:57 -0700 reply
It's labour day here in the US.. happy labour day.

Something cool and non zwiki-related I want to share with you. Here in Santa Monica, the ocean has been very brown the last couple of days. A friend told me it's a "red tide", where plankton (algae ?) are blooming heavily. And they're bio-luminescent! So I went down there last night after sunset to see. Sure enough, as it got dark the surf began to glow with an electric light. Superb! It only glowed when the waves first broke, though - then it was covered up by murky foam. Splashing about in the shallows had no effect. Rats. The water felt inviting, so I swam out to where it was glowing. Swimming along, my fingers trailed light like comets, and all around me the water lit up. Magic! A couple of shooting stars zapped away - little fish! If you're in the neighbourhood, try it!

... -- Tue, 02 Sep 2003 02:22:11 -0700 reply
I have the latest ZWiki installed into my Plone Site. Now I have no Defalut Pages (Frontpage / Map /Search and so on. Just a plain Wiki Page. How can I get the links to the Seach page / User Option and so on. The pages are all in the skin folder. But how should I link these togehter ?

Thanks, Volker

zwiki.org error --FlorianKonnertz, Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:50:39 -0700 reply
Just got an error when renaming a page:

    *  Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publish_module
    * Module Products.Localizer, line 58, in new_publish
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish
    * Module Zope.App.startup, line 182, in zpublisher_exception_hook
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish
    * Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object
    * Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 1595, in rename
    AttributeError

installing default pages in plone --Simon Michael, Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:54:27 -0700 reply

I have the latest ZWiki installed into my Plone Site. Now I have no Defalut Pages (Frontpage / Map /Search and so on. Just a plain Wiki Page. How can I get the links to the Seach page / User Option and so on. The pages are all in the skin folder. But how should I link these togehter ?

Hi Volker, here is the easiest way to get the default zwiki pages in plone at the moment: use the ZMI to add a zwiki web outside of plone and cut and paste the pages from there into your plone folder.

This will also install the standard DTML-based pages RecentChanges?, SearchPage? and UserOptions?. But as of zwiki 0.22, these won't work in plone by default ("Evil Limi" has decreed "no DTML in plone wikis by default"). You can do one of two things here:

This is all in flux. I think we should add a /setupDefaultPages method to install these, and do away with the ZMI "add zwiki web" option. As usual, help is welcome, I'd like to work on this but don't know just how soon that will be.

Re: IssueTracker --Simon Michael, Tue, 02 Sep 2003 11:59:48 -0700 reply
"Woellert, Kirk D." <kirk.woellert@ngc.com> writes:

Thank you, Thank you, thank you! I renamed the no_dtml.dtml file as you suggested. I don't see the screen shot page anymore. I get this error. I used the auto setup script so my catalog should arlready be made right?

Site error This site encountered an error trying to fulfill your request. The errors were:

Error Details Error Type CatalogError? Error Value Unknown sort_on index

Hi Kirk - that setup script was not maintained and needs an update by the looks of things. I hope to incorporate it soon, but I don't know when that will be, funded work must take precedence right now. sort_on should be an argument it passes to the catalog, not an index. Sorry I can't be more help right now.

I tried posting to the discussion page again, but "add a comment" does not seem to work. The web browswer just times out, and the page is rendered again just as it was before clicking the tab.

That's odd. Posting to GeneralDiscussion when it's large does take a long time (less than a minute.. ?). See if you can post on shorter pages.

zwiki.org error --SimonMichael, Tue, 02 Sep 2003 12:25:42 -0700 reply
Hi Florian. Can you reproduce it ? Can I ? If not, what page were you renaming ? Thanks

... -- Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:15:53 -0700 reply
The RecentChanges? page shows dates running four days behind (August 29 instead of September 2)

0.22rc5 released --SimonMichael, Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:21:07 -0700 reply
Bake 0.22 a little longer. Latest fixes:

zwiki.org error --FlorianKonnertz, Wed, 03 Sep 2003 04:14:12 -0700 reply
I tried to rename WikiAnwendungbeireiche? to WikiAnwendungbereiche?, which already exists - but i reproduced it by renaming to WikiAnwendungbereicheGruende?

zwiki.org error --FlorianKonnertz, Wed, 03 Sep 2003 04:16:19 -0700 reply
Err, WikiAnwendungbereiche? does not exist, this was wrong, sorry. But anyway... already an idea?

How to display a link to log in --Kurt Yoder, Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:36:19 -0700 reply

Simon Michael said:

Ah, very good. Yes, all you need is to make a link to the login form appear, only when not logged in. Such a code snippet should be easy to find with a little searching. It's something along the lines of:

 <span tal:condition="python:not user.has_role('Authenticated')">
 <a href="login_form">log in</a> to edit this page
 </span>

You'll add this to your Zwiki skin, most likely, by customizing it. I don't know if you've found out how to customize skins yet. Eg if you're in CMF/Plone, go to portal_skins/zwiki_plone/wikipage_view and click customize.

I added this code in the footer page and it displays fine. Now I just need to know where a login form can be found and copied. I'm assuming that once a user is logged in, it applies across the whole wiki? Pardon these basic questions, I am a Zope novice. If there's a FAQ for Zope on doing these kinds of things, I'd be happy to read it...

BTW, I completely skipped CMF (not even sure what Plone is). I installed the Wiki as its own set of objects inside a Zope folder. Seems to work OK. My eventual intent is to add an arbitrary number of separate Wikis for various purposes with various people in control of each one.

Thanks for your help!

-- Kurt Yoder Sport & Health network administrator

RemoteWikiLinks --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:52:46 -0700 reply
Again noticed that the target has to be more than one character. ZWiki:Z vs. ZWiki:ZWiki Got bit by building a link to an indexed query, and MyExample:1 failed. For the time being MyExample:1/ works just fine. I'll need to dig more at the regex to understand it...a few minutes wasn't enough. Hmm..ISBN #1? BookLookup:1\ BookLookup:01

Aside from that the general use is a WikiName as the target from the remote link, is there any other reasons why 1 character might be invalid?

removing last edited tooltip --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:58:21 -0700 reply
As I've put off upgrading long enough to merit a multi-hour upgrade, I'd like to quickly remove the "last edited ..." tool tips in order for a short-term speed increase stop-gap. Found that a few RecentChanges? on the main pages and backlinks on every page are helpful, but as Simon pointed earlier, that causes each page to be awoken.

I skimmed through some recent RC code, along with my existing 0.17.0 site, for a spot to comment out that call, but none stuck out as an easy 1 or two point snip. Smelled like linktitle...

Is there a one or two position cut-point to remove the tool-tip feature from my older version?

zwiki.org error --Simon Michael, Wed, 03 Sep 2003 20:36:52 -0700 reply
Thanks, followed up on IssueNo0597?

new Search idea - canonicalLinks --BillSeitz, Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:36:54 -0700 reply
Avoid having to index full text?

removing last edited tooltip --BillSeitz, Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:39:49 -0700 reply
I just did this on my codebase yesterday (not rolled out yet). I found that if I just changed the default argument value in _renderLink() to render_title=0, it worked.

new Search idea - canonicalLinks --BillSeitz, Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:45:46 -0700 reply
to clarify my overly-terse post:

From julien Motch sept 5

Subject : Can not edit Zwiki pages when logged in as manager

Hi, I have just installed Zwiki 0.21 with Zope 2.6.1. To test it, +I+ create a Zwiki web without any problem. But when I click on the view link, no edits links appear at the bottom of the page althought I am logged as manager and I can do all what a manager is able to do in the zope system.

If I want to edit the wiki pages, I have to give edit capabilities to anonymous users. Nothing else is working.

Any idea about the problemorigin ?

... -- Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:51:35 -0700 reply
Have you given "change page type" to anonymous users?

date formatting oddity --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:24:41 -0700 reply
The dates in the messages weren't formatted on my home XP Zope2.7.1 box as they are on Zwiki. Examples at DeanG. Any thoughts?

I wanted to test it through the Zope python prompt, but I haven't done that much as couldn't find the "ZopeTime?" method. >:-/ (Gentoo should be in the mail this week! :-))

... -- Tue, 09 Sep 2003 05:08:07 -0700 reply

To improve Zwiki, drop the GPL -- Tue, 09 Sep 2003 05:24:43 -0700 reply

After a few edits, my message was getting big, so instead of clogging up this page, I moved it to:

http://betterdifferent.com/software/zwikilicense

Please take a look. I am raising money to fund continuous development of a public domain Zope wiki product, but was hoping not to have to start from scratch. The above linked document explains my reasoning and my passion to make this happen. I also address the below concerns. I may be crazy, but I REALLY believe in the potential of this software.

Way to go, Simon! I can't wait to talk to you. I'll try to contact you tomorrow night after I get back to San Diego. Meanwhile, I am n_johnson@yahoo.com but my company firewall won't let me access mail.yahoo.com so I'll get email tomorrow.

Nate

To improve Zwiki, keep the GPL --TonyRossini, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 07:33:13 -0700 reply
I hope that the zwiki community would consider keeping the GPL. There is no particular reason that changing licenses would speed up the development process; I do not see a mass of developers looking at jumping in and helping just because the license changes, nor any reason for those folks to give back. As one who is working on putting together $$ for Simon for consulting (working through university purchasing/contract systems is taking MUCH (months) longer than I thought, no Simon, I've not changed my mind, just havn't had time to plow through the bureaucracy), I'd hope that it remains GPL. Or at least LGPL.

To improve Zwiki, keep the GPL --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:41:16 -0700 reply
More information for the topic...

TWiki is GPL. TWiki:GnuGeneralPublicLicense , I thought the WikiWiki was, but I can't seem to find that. Plone is GPL. http://plone.org/documentation/copyrights/license-faq

quick update --Simon Michael, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:02:09 -0700 reply
Good day all.. 0.22 is bogged down with CVS confusion right now. I lost track of things I wanted to merge from the trunk and things I didn't, exacerbated by pcl-cvs and cvs weirdness. I can see it's time for a cleanup of my CVS & release process. I have been spread a bit thin and so am just taking this a step at a time. Will respond to questions here when I can. Veterans, thanks for stepping in. The recent bug reports have been excellent also, raising the quality of the 0.22 release.

Also feeling as if I may have dissed the community's work in the recent thread with Laura. If it came across that way, sorry. I tried to break through the veneer of politeness and stimulate clear discussion. Also I sometimes veer into soapbox mode and should make that clearer. If anyone's "at fault" for the state of zwiki docs, it's me. I've often felt unable to push this project forward as fast as I'd like. O well! Press on!

mail client change, mail list --Simon Michael, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:25:45 -0700 reply
In other news.. after a run of many years with emacs gnus, I've switched to one of these new-fangled GUI mail clients (the excellent Thunderbird). Big news for me :). All part of the quest for efficient reliable messaging.

I don't yet have the same feeling of fluidity/usability from the zwiki mail list/zwiki.org's wikimail that I do with other lists/newsgroups. I'm not sure why that is, any ideas ?

The recent threading fix should help, and now that my mail client is faster, as an experiment I'm going to try following discussion strictly by mail for a bit.

mail client change, mail list --Dean Goodmanson, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:37:04 -0700 reply

  1. Do you see who the individual emails are coming from? They don't show up in Outlook 2000.
  2. I rarely respond in email, this post is an experiment. Sometimes I'd like the "forwarded from" link to include the usability name #bottom to get me to the comment, but, BUT.. lately then I scroll to the latest post to be sure to use the reply. THUS.. I would prefer the forwarded from to include a message anchor. (which doesn't exist, but may add an "end" delimiter to the messages?)

--

forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion

change management thought --BillSeitz, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:07:22 -0700 reply
How about: every change has a related specific page (Issue or not), and thus every item in the ReleaseNotes points to the appropriate page.

The meta-principle involved: "control" changes by putting them through pre-documentation.

Is this an obnoxious idea?

cached BackLinks - custom tweak --BillSeitz, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 18:13:28 -0700 reply
see http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/z2003-09-09-CachedBacklinks and give me some feedback.

0.22.0rc6 released --Simon Michael, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:09:38 -0700 reply
If all goes well 0.22 will follow late tomorrow. The ChangeLog? in the trunk and on this site is now generated with cvs2cl.

0.22.0rc6 released -- Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:46:14 -0700 reply
Had trouble finding the download. In the past I relied on the FrontPage links and your Zope page. Through OldFrontPage? figured out http://zwiki.org/releases , so added the link to ReleaseNotes. Didn't in other places as I was looking for the pre-releases.

0.22.0rc6 released --Simon Michael, Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:23:57 -0700 reply
You didn't see "NavigationAids has more links to downloads, documentation, etc" on FrontPage ?

I too miss the download link on FrontPage. Not sure how to put it there without duplication of effort and/or too much clutter.

0.22.0rc6 released -- Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:01:20 -0700 reply
NavigationAids.. ahhARG! :-) Once again, I overlooked the obvious. Search hits on "download" were too many, rc6 nada, and "tarball" close but no link.

(If it's any consolidation, I couldn't find the license or download of WikiWiki after 5 minutes of searching and hitting login dialogs..)

0.22rc7 released --Simon Michael, Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:36:56 -0700 reply
An inconsistency that need not see the light of day after all.

Default page type -- Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:36:28 -0700 reply
The current behaviour seems to be create new pages with the same type (selected by default in the type box) as the page they are created from. Of course the user can override this by then selecting another type. Is there any mechanism to force a wiki web to always have one particular type set as the default when the new page is created? allowed_page_types does not seem to have any effect here, it just controls which types are shown in the selection box.

Zwiki 0.22 released --Simon Michael, Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:54:07 -0700 reply
Summary: Memory efficiency/performance/scalability improvements; simpler page types and DTML control; zwiki_plone and default skin updates; wikimail tweaks; STX images; bugs, fixes, features.

Quite a lot going on! Good luck. See http://zwiki.org and http://zwiki.org/ReleaseNotes for download and details. I hope to sort out my zope.org publishing process soon.

I'm happy to announce that zope.org and plone.org are now using mainstream Zwiki. This is a big milestone. There have been a number of installation issues with the zope.org wikis but these are being addressed (thanks webmasters).

Also I think Zwiki may be coming up on it's 5th birthday around now..

Default page type --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:34:09 -0700 reply

type. Is there any mechanism to force a wiki web to always have one particular type set as the default when the new page is created?

I don't think you can force it as in the past, since I just removed the standard_page_type property to resolve some conflicts with allowed_page_types.

You could "strongly encourage" it though, by setting an allowed_page_types with just the one page type. Does that meet your need ?

change management thought --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:37:41 -0700 reply
BillSeitz wrote:

How about: every change has a related specific page (Issue or not), and thus every item in the ReleaseNotes points to the appropriate page.

That would be interesting, something like CVSTrac? perhaps. I'm most concerned with lightening my process right now though.

cached BackLinks - custom tweak --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:39:26 -0700 reply
BillSeitz wrote:

see http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/z2003-09-09-CachedBacklinks and

Hi Bill, I had a quick look - is it inline backlinks ? Those can work. Your backlinks form shouldn't be slow, perhaps 0.22 will help.

mail client change, mail list --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:50:51 -0700 reply
Dean Goodmanson wrote:

1. Do you see who the individual emails are coming from? They don't show up in Outlook 2000.

Thunderbird showed that message as from Dean Goodmanson <zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org>. If Outlook has learned a fixed or blank real name for that zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org address, that might explain it.

Also that message didn't get threaded in my mail client. Did you reply to some old message (looks like 2003/09/01 ?) That would explain that.

the latest post to be sure to use the reply. THUS.. I would prefer the forwarded from to include a message anchor. (which doesn't exist,

Eh ? Do you mean like the timestamp link

http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msgC8C8EB51871CB544A0CBD699B20B2E1F2940B5@production5

or the reply link

http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion?subject=mail%20client%20change%2C%20mail%20list&in_reply_to=%3CC8C8EB51871CB544A0CBD699B20B2E1F2940B5%40production5%3E#bottom

? I'd like to use those but it felt like just too much visual clutter.

To improve Zwiki, keep the GPL --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:11:26 -0700 reply

reason for those folks to give back. As one who is working on putting together $$ for Simon for consulting (working through university purchasing/contract systems is taking MUCH (months) longer than I

Hey thanks.. I hope it works out.

So far, the longer I'm in this business, the more I value the GPL. Squeak's licensing quagmire and the recent assault on GNU/Linux are two of the latest inputs.

I do have a problem which I've being thinking about quite a bit. Since the topic has come up I'll just put my current thinking out there..

I would like maximum sharing and reuse of Zwiki code in the Zope 3 project. I'd like Zwiki for zope 3 to be in the zope 3 cvs repository and I'd like all Zwiki code to be freely reusable in zope-3-zwiki and any other parts of Zope 3. But for now and the foreseeable future the zope 3 cvs repository, and the zope 3 project generally, accepts only ZPL code.

I'm the Zwiki copyright holder, so technically the license can be changed to whatever. Though past and potential future developers may have their own feelings about a license change. Some come because we are GPL, and vice versa.

GPL gives maximum protection against the unlikely-but-always-possible legal shenanigans that can be pulled if it ever becomes in anyone's interest to do so. I'm almost, but not quite convinced it's sensible to give this up.

I've thought of ZPLing? the whole thing. The ZPL seems to be both a license and a copyright transfer to "Zope corp. and contributors". I think the copyright assignment is required. So this would be a one-way deal, zwiki code developed in the zope 3 project would stay ZPL forever (unless Zope corp. and contributors agreed on a change.). Because of this I am not being hasty.

Dual licensing GPL/ZPL is possible, but I've heard there's not much point in that - it's essentially the same as abandoning the GPL. Though I'm not sure I completely agree with that.

Another option is to stay "almost GPL" - GPL with an exception for the zope 3 project. "This code is under GPL, except you may reuse any parts of it which are useful for the zope 3 project under the ZPL; the original Zwiki for zope 2 collected work remains under GPL and (c) SM". A tad murky but I think it could work fine. Technically someone could grab the entire codebase and use under ZPL right away but there would be at least a little extra social cost in doing this. Zwiki for zope 2 keeps at least some flavour of being a GPL project. In some ways this is the simplest thing that could possible work, as in "most incremental and least disruptive option".

And of course just sticking with the GPL is an option. Those zope 3 guys can write anything they need pretty quick with or without Zwiki - in fact Zwiki for zope 3 may be more of a rewrite than a port - but there would be at least some wasteful duplication of effort. And since they're unlikely to come and play in the GPL world soon, I probably wouldn't get to play with them so much.

That's where I'm at. Moving to a "weaker" license is a one way move, so as I said I'm mulling it over in a leisurely way.

To improve Zwiki, keep the GPL --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:16:56 -0700 reply
TonyRossini wrote:

is no particular reason that changing licenses would speed up the development process; I do not see a mass of developers looking at jumping in and helping just because the license changes, nor any reason for those folks to give back. As one who is working on putting

Actually I think choice of license is an important factor in attracting developers' time and attention.

Default page type -- Thu, 11 Sep 2003 06:24:40 -0700 reply

> type. Is there any mechanism to force a wiki web to always have one particular type set as the default when the new page is created?
I don't think you can force it as in the past, since I just removed the standard_page_type property to resolve some conflicts with allowed_page_types.
You could "strongly encourage" it though, by setting an allowed_page_types with just the one page type. Does that meet your need ?

I want to strongly encourage it, by setting it as the default, but I do still want to show the other page types, otherwise people will never even know about them, and sometimes they are useful. The problem with the current behaviour is that less experienced users will get a new page of a type which is almost random (unless they override it), to the extent that the type for the new page will be whatever the type for the page they are creating it off is. I don't necesarilly think this makes sense for a lot of wikis. For example, I want to encourage pages to be done using reStructuredText. But anybody who creates a page off of FrontPage will get a new page which by default is set to StructuredText (assuming it is the default FrontPage). Personally, I think one way it could work is that the default page type could be the first item on allowed_page_types, and maybe you could have ano option to also work in the current style (default page type is the same as the page you are creating off).

-Colin

mail client change, mail list --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:20:56 -0700 reply

Eh ? Do you mean like the timestamp link

Yes. :-) I overlooked that. I agree that it is a long URL, but it does ID the source of the message, which may justify including it in the mail-out.

Thunderbird showed that message as from Dean Goodmanson .

An example of the mail header's FROM lines, the Zwiki doesn't include the senders name in Outlook, where the Yahoo one does:

 Zwiki mail: From: zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (Simon Michael)
 Yahoo mail: From: Dean Goodmanson <goodmansond@yahoo.com>

Note: When getting messages from Zwiki in my yahoo account, the From name shows up! :-)

This issue may be another case of using a non-standard to accomodate the majority. :-/

Default page type --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:07:39 -0700 reply

with the current behaviour is that less experienced users will get a new page of a type which is almost random (unless they override it), to the extent that the type for the new page will be whatever the type for the page they are creating it off is. I don't necesarilly think

Oh, by the way (time machine whirrs) I agree and dropped this - in 0.22 create() reads:

         # set the specified page type, otherwise use this wiki's default
         p.page_type = type or self.defaultPageType()

ie we no longer inherit type from the parent. I don't think that behaviour is necessary.

> think one way it could work is that the default page type could be the > first item on allowed_page_types, and maybe you could have ano option

Good idea.. (whirr) defaultPageType() is the first of the allowedPageTypes().

ALL_PAGE_TYPES is another useful attribute. With these three it should be possible to show whatever you want in the edit form. Maybe a list of radio buttons with the disallowed ones disabled ?

mail client change, mail list --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:03:30 -0700 reply
ONE. As you probably know, when you post via the web the from address will be zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org and the real name will be your (cookie or authenticated) username. Ie normally something like:

   From: zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson)

Your last message (http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msg20030911072056-0700@zwiki.org) was like this. In this case your mail client should show at least "DeanGoodmanson". But because it has seen zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org before with other real names attached, it might not. Without knowing Outlook I can't say more.

TWO. When you post via mail - assuming the wiki uses the mail_replyto property as we do, and not mail_from - your real from should come through, eg:

   From: Dean Goodmanson <your@real.address>

Your previous message (http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msgC8C8EB51871CB544A0CBD699B20B2E1F2940B5@production5) should have been like this, but actually it came through as:

   From: Dean Goodmanson <zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org>

(You can examine these messages in the gmane newsgroup if needed.) That's odd. Dumb questions:

mail client change, mail list --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:06:54 -0700 reply
PS, what I wrote above may not apply exactly for page subscribers. It's how things appeared to a wiki (mailing list) subscriber. Tricky isn't it.

RemoteWikiLinks --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:00:23 -0700 reply

Aside from that the general use is a WikiName as the target from the remote link, is there any other reasons why 1 character might be invalid?

It's not intentional. but a consequence of the way we require the interwikilink regexp to end on an alphanumeric character (for some forgotten bug report):

 interwikilink    = r'!?((?P<local>%s):(?P<remote>%s))' \
                   % (localwikilink, urlchars+urlendchar)

How to display a link to log in --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:14:25 -0700 reply
Kurt Yoder wrote:

I added this code in the footer page and it displays fine. Now I just need to know where a login form can be found and copied. I'm assuming that once a user is logged in, it applies across the whole wiki? Pardon these basic questions, I am a Zope novice. If there's a FAQ for Zope on doing these kinds of things, I'd be happy to read it...

BTW, I completely skipped CMF (not even sure what Plone is). I installed the Wiki as its own set of objects inside a Zope folder. Seems to work OK. My eventual intent is to add an arbitrary number of separate Wikis for various purposes with various people in control of each one.

Hi Kurt.. yes I did assume you were already using CMF.

Most people use CMF/Plone, ExUserFolder or similar zope products to add a pretty login form, member signup, password reminders etc. to their site. Note Zope itself provides a basic login form (popup dialog only - I think); in this case you the manager must manage user accounts in the acl_users folder in the ZMI (add a User Folder if you don't see this).

Zwiki cooperates fine with any of these but doesn't provide login facilities itself as you've gathered.

This is a zope faq and you may find more docs on zope.org or google. If the basic zope login form doesn't meet your needs, I think the easiest solution for a novice is to create a plone site and put your wiki pages in it. This will give your wiki a somewhat different default skin though, which you may or may not prefer.

... --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:25:38 -0700 reply

The RecentChanges? page shows dates running four days behind (August 29 instead of September 2)

I didn't see this.. I haven't messed with the catalog lately and I'm assuming it's resolved now.

mail tip, threading --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:40:52 -0700 reply
A newsreader with fast message searching (Thunderbird) plus the gmane news server works really well for finding and reading old messages in context, from zwiki.org, the zope lists, or whatever. You may need to unsubscribe and resubscribe the group to download all the message headers.

Auto-in-reply-to: this is the experimental feature activated on this site a few weeks ago, which tries to group posts into one thread per page per month. This is sort of nice when you come to read old mailman archives - you can see the effect in the september and late august mailman threaded archive. On the other hand it distorts posters' expressed threading intent slightly, and makes recent posts/threads a little harder to spot in mailman or newsreaders. I'll leave it on for the rest of september and compare october without it.

RemoteWikiLinks -- Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:56:48 -0700 reply

we require the interwikilink regexp to end on an alphanumeric character (for some forgotten bug report):

Ahh, I see. I wish I could think of an example to override the general case of avoiding a space before punctuation, but I can't, so will keep the general consensus.

Strangely enough, I had noted that as a limitation on the RemoteWikiLinks page, and now have changed it to note that the target page (is that the correct term?) must be alphanumeric.

We may want to keep an eye out for cases where this should be expanded, such as Purple Number references: ZWiki:PurpleNumbers#nid1279 (<-- n/m!! It must end in an alphanumeric or /.) - DeanG

RemoteWikiLinks --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:30:19 -0700 reply
Actually, it's only the last character of the url that has to be alphanumeric (or /). As you say, it was probably to allow a trailing period or colon after a url, without intervening space. Note that this is done only with remote wiki urls, where you don't need it. It's not done with bare urls (maybe it was once).

It's problematic anyhow, because urls ending in . are legal I believe and should be recognized. There's a consensus that urls in plain text should always have a trailing space to avoid this problem.

So I think I'll drop this url_endchar thing.

mail tip, threading --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:33:13 -0700 reply
The gmane group is also great if you want to reply to an old message in your mail/news client, but have deleted the mail.

mail client change, mail list --Simon Michael, Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:41:40 -0700 reply

it is a long URL, but it does ID the source of the message, which may justify including it in the mail-out.

Agreed, it is too useful to leave out.

How to display a link to log in --Kurt Yoder, Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:17:35 -0700 reply

Simon Michael said:

Most people use CMF/Plone, ExUserFolder or similar zope products to add a pretty login form, member signup, password reminders etc. to their site. Note Zope itself provides a basic login form (popup dialog only - I think); in this case you the manager must manage user accounts in the acl_users folder in the ZMI (add a User Folder if you don't see this).

Zwiki cooperates fine with any of these but doesn't provide login facilities itself as you've gathered.

This is a zope faq and you may find more docs on zope.org or google. If the basic zope login form doesn't meet your needs, I think the easiest solution for a novice is to create a plone site and put your wiki pages in it. This will give your wiki a somewhat different default skin though, which you may or may not prefer.

OK, thanks for the information. I will look into this. Do you happen to know if it works with the Zope ldap authentication module also?

BTW, the mail-to-wiki code seems to have trouble with the email "quote" characters. It seems to want to wrap the line at strange places and/or not put the > at the beginning of the line. Just an observation.

-- Kurt Yoder Sport & Health network administrator

How to display a link to log in --Simon Michael, Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:00:23 -0700 reply

OK, thanks for the information. I will look into this. Do you happen to know if it works with the Zope ldap authentication module also?

Yes, some solutions do.. check the products that end in UserFolder.

BTW, the mail-to-wiki code seems to have trouble with the email "quote" characters. It seems to want to wrap the line at strange places and/or not put the > at the beginning of the line. Just an observation.

Can you tell how to reproduce this ? Are you seeing the strangeness in email, on the page, or both ?

strange automatic renaming --FlorianKonnertz, Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:18:04 -0700 reply
Really strange things happen in my wiki - when i edited a page the late character from the title was cut and after saving and adding the title again the id was set to the same string. :-p Ever heard of that?? - I wonder if someone hacks my site... - Florian

strange automatic renaming --Simon Michael, Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:29:06 -0700 reply
What was the title (page name) ?

new setup methods for catalog, tracker, default pages --SimonMichael, Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:47:03 -0700 reply
I've incorporated the SetupIssueTracker? script (who wrote that ?) as /setupCatalog and /setupTracker in cvs. They add catalog fields as described on ZwikiAndZCatalog, when needed; they are safe to run more than once. See Admin.py for more detail.

There's also a /setupPages (installs default pages) and /setupDtmlMethods (installs index_html and standard_error_message, probably only for non-CMF sites). All of these pass tests, but could use some real-world testing. They require Manage properties permission (on the page where you run them.. ie be a manager).

new setup methods for catalog, tracker, default pages --SimonMichael, Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:50:09 -0700 reply
PS and I plan to remove the ZMI Add ZWiki Web option, for symmetry with CMF.

new setup methods for catalog, tracker, default pages --SimonMichael, Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:03:42 -0700 reply
PS I could remove the ZMI Add ZWiki Web option now, for symmetry with CMF. But this requires that people run /setupPages before they see any getting started docs. Unless I add those to any page that they create, if it's the first on in the folder. Or we can keep Add ZWiki Web as a convenience. It could probably be changed to Add Wiki if we want. Also as a matter of interest, if I could change Add ZWiki Page to Add Wiki Page without causing ugprade hassles, would that be better ?

new setup methods for catalog, tracker, default pages --simon, Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:48:31 -0700 reply
And in that case, the permissions would be renamed: to Add Wiki, Add Wiki Page (consistent with other zope objects); or Zwiki: Add wikis, Zwiki: Add wiki pages (consistent and grouped with with other zwiki permissions). (Or some variant, eg: Zwiki: Create wikis, Zwiki: Create pages).

If these changes are worth the trouble, it looks as if they can be done while leaving the meta_type as before (ZWiki Page). Could it be confusing and un-zopish to have an object whose meta_type is spelled differently from it's permissions and add menu item ? Any precedent for this ?

Finally (I promise) if that is considered a bit ugly, we could go all the way and change the meta_type to Wiki Page. At this point we run into upgrade hassles, as old wiki pages will stop working after an upgrade. Unless the product provides both classes, for backwards compatibility, which I suppose it would need to do for ever. And is it desirable to remove the product name from all these places ? I leave you to ponder.. good night.

strange automatic renaming --FlorianKonnertz, Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:52:17 -0700 reply
http://openspirit.de/noowiki/flok/Groovesurfer (groovesurfer) was renamed to groovesurfe - and NooWiki:WikiVerwendung was moved to NooWiki:WikiVerwendung|Moved -- what ist that, thats new to me!??

diff note -- Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:37:06 -0700 reply
The new text-wrap code in Python 2.3 may help reduce horizontal scrolling annoyances in page diff views. http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-textwrap.html

Also noticed this time zone tool which might simplify some time zone handling. (??) http://zen.freezope.org/Software/PosixTimeZone/

-- DeanG

Default page type -- Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:29:09 -0700 reply
I'm very confused. I'm running the 0.22 release, and the page type on newly created pages still seems to be set to default the same as the parent. But I have the source open in an editor right now and can see that it should default as follows:

        p.page_type = type or self.defaultPageType()

and then:

    def defaultPageType(self)
        """This wiki's default page type."""
        allowedtypes = self.allowedPageTypes()
        if allowedtypes: return allowedtypes[0]
        else: return self.DEFAULT_PAGE_TYPE

Now type on a new page link should be None, and my allowed_page_types is set such that reST is the first one, and it does indeed show it as the first in the list, it just picks ST as the default if the parent is ST. It's almost like the older ZWiki code is still around. Anybody have a clue as to what is going on?

Colin

RecentChanges? anomaly --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:44:23 -0700 reply
The dates on RecentChanges? are off. A search on "RecentChanges?" in the tracker returns everything.

note to self, cc: GeneralDiscussion --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:05:10 -0700 reply

  1. Remind the Zwiki community for feedback and collaboration on the [Simple Mailing List]? page.
  2. Analyze in light of Jon Udell's Email's Special Power

SisterSites, MetaWiki -- Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:33:47 -0700 reply
Am I reading the pages correctly to understand that

Should that approach be revisited? What is the right ZoPe way to handle a big chunk of structured data like that? Can you stuff a dictionary into a single ZODB entry? Is every thread caching a copy of it? If it's going to be read-only, does that help?

SisterSites, MetaWiki -- Tue, 16 Sep 2003 06:34:14 -0700 reply
One approach: the batch process that grabs the list from MetaWiki could step through every page in the local wiki and update a sisterSites property. (Yuck, have to beware deleted pages in sistersites.)

An issue: does one want to automatically include all those MetaWiki sites as SisterSites. Probably not, so you'd need a place (a SisterSitesList? page? or a folder property only the admin can get to? probably the former) to define the list to match against.

Another Acceptable URL character --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:05:56 -0700 reply
:-) Looks like curly braces need to be added also. My short search for a URL approving regex left me lost in a mess similar to looking up a javascript recipe.

(The following is a Jython database interaction article.) : http://www.informit.com/content/articlex.asp?product_id={72F55276-094B-4F7E-A5B9-796A6C251F31}&element_id={770F9C3C-5472-4507-9779-51C2E84D8D38}&st={EA04B5C6-6D59-4670-AC88-4982C49B746D}&session_id={35CF3D7C-5845-4631-BE5F-A9B96EA0C071}

Brackets work for a short-term workaround

Sorry for replying to the wrong thread.

Another Acceptable URL character --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:09:59 -0700 reply
brackets worked in my 0.17 version. :-/

Plone integration --Kurt Yoder, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:40:44 -0700 reply
Thanks for the suggestion to integrate with Plone. Authentication system works great. So are there any pointers on integrating Zwiki more fully into Plone? Using the same skin would be useful. Also might be nice to have the Zwiki pages show up inside the Plone site (eg the "middle pane") instead of as a completely separate "subdirectory".

Thanks for everyone's help so far! I will try to add some of these answers to the Zwiki faq.

Plone integration --Kurt Yoder, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:14:35 -0700 reply

Kurt Yoder said:

Thanks for the suggestion to integrate with Plone. Authentication system works great. So are there any pointers on integrating Zwiki more fully into Plone? Using the same skin would be useful. Also might be nice to have the Zwiki pages show up inside the Plone site (eg the "middle pane") instead of as a completely separate "subdirectory".

Thanks for everyone's help so far! I will try to add some of these answers to the Zwiki faq.

And after posting this I'm seeing info in the FAQ already...

-- Kurt Yoder Sport & Health network administrator

Plone integration --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:15:25 -0700 reply
Woohoo! The docs are working! :)

Sorry I didn't understand the previous post at all. Hopefully it will become clear as you check out the examples.

Default page type --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:31:15 -0700 reply
Hey Colin.. create() chooses the page_type when no type is passed in.. but in fact the default editform template has already told it what type to use, and it inherits the parent's type just as create() used to. I guess we should change it there too ? Instead of:

 tal:attributes="value python:type; selected python:type==here.page_type;"

use:

 tal:attributes="value python:type; selected python:type==here.defaultPageType();"

? I can't see the other ramifications if any.

RecentChanges? anomaly --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:37:40 -0700 reply

The dates on RecentChanges? are off.

Someone else said this but I don't see it. Could it be the server timezone change I announced recently ? Do you have a timezone configured in UserOptions? ?

A search on "RecentChanges?" in the tracker returns everything.

Yup, got it in the tracker. Thanks.

note to self, cc: GeneralDiscussion --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:47:06 -0700 reply
DeanGoodmanson wrote:

a. Remind the Zwiki community for feedback and collaboration on the [Simple Mailing List]? page.
> > b. Analyze in light of Jon Udell's "Email's Special

It's on my mental todo list.. I liked the idea but didn't see what to do with it just yet. Where should we link it/merge it/whatever. Maybe some questions: What target audience does it address, how does it relate to WikiMail, where might they both belong on the refactored ZWiki page ? Nice link.

SisterSites, MetaWiki --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:52:23 -0700 reply
Your reading is correct I think. I'd like to get this working again, but I don't necessarily want all MetaWiki sites. I'd like to make it easy to keep a zwiki synced with (usually a small number of) explicitly declared sister wikis. I was thinking in terms of a nightly cron script updating a local text file and reading that via LocalFS.. but any experiments on your part would be helpful.

permission, type renaming --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:11:19 -0700 reply
More on this - good news! I found out the "Add..." permission names are not hardcoded. Bad news! I'm contemplating a permissions rename for 0.23. But I think it's worth it. Details:

Not consistent with everything but it looks to me like the least surprising arrangement. Here's some other options I thought about, and the other permissions for context:

  # before 0.23
  #AddWiki       = 'Add ZWiki Webs'
  #Add           = 'Add ZWiki Pages'
  #Comment       = 'Zwiki: Add comments to pages'

  # from 0.23
  #AddWiki       = 'Add Wikis'
  AddWiki       = 'Zwiki: Add wikis'
  #AddWiki       = 'Zwiki: Add wiki webs'
  #AddWiki       = 'Zwiki: Create wikis'
  #AddWiki       = 'Zwiki: Create wiki webs'
  #Add           = 'Add Wiki Pages'
  Add           = 'Zwiki: Add pages'
  #Add           = 'Zwiki: Add wiki pages'
  #Add           = 'Zwiki: Create pages'
  #Add           = 'Zwiki: Create wiki pages'
  Comment       = 'Zwiki: Add comments'
  ChangeType    = 'Zwiki: Change page types'
  ChangeRegs    = 'Zwiki: Change regulations'
  Delete        = 'Zwiki: Delete pages'
  Edit          = 'Zwiki: Edit pages'
  Rename        = 'Zwiki: Rename pages'
  Reparent      = 'Zwiki: Reparent pages'

Comments welcome.

permission, type renaming --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:15:57 -0700 reply
PS in case it wasn't clear - I've already checked this in, but I'm looking for feedback on it, eg if you see any problems with this do speak up.

Power of email and wiki --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:56:55 -0700 reply

What target audience does it address?

I think the article covers the masses. I drew most of my criticism/tangents when considering it in a small community and/or intranet venue.

how does it relate to WikiMail?

The email cc: list seems to be forced membership nomination to a closed group, where wikimail is membership subscription in an open group. The cc: cost of entry is low, especially when compared to forums and mailing lists, but I don't consider much heavier than zwiki's subscribe link. I wouldn't suggest adding "forced nomination" features to Zwiki (even in an intranet setting) as those are possible by forwarding the latest comment to those who might be interesting. The cc: feature of immediate audience perspective is one which may work in an intranet, but in general pulls people back into the email grapevine.

where might they both belong on the refactored ZWiki page ?

I'm lost here.

Power of email and wiki --Simon Michael, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:05:50 -0700 reply
Oh, I meant how does it relate to the existing WikiMail page on this wiki, and what do we need to do to present this stuff more clearly to visitors. Sorry, I am burned out on docs right now.

Note we have an auto_subscribe feature that sounds like "forced nomination".

Zwiki and GPL vs ZPL vs BSD vs Public Domain -- Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:09:07 -0700 reply
To continue the Zwiki License http://betterdifferent.com/software/zwikilicense discussion:

I believe it is correct to say that each author of every single contribution to Zwiki is entitled to copyright law protection automatically on their piece of code. Especially considering that (I expect) all the authors were operating under the GPL system, meaning they each invoked a copy-left based on their individual right to ownership of their code. Unless every single author specifically assigned their copyright to Simon, then he would not have the legal authority to change the license for Zwiki as a whole, but rather only the parts he personally created. This is one example of how using these trick copyleft licenses only causes more problems down the road. You don't need any license or any ownership rights at all. In fact, the less restrictive the license is the better to help the adoption and spread of the software. Make a case for what negative things would happen if Zwiki was released into the public domain, and I would be happy to address it in detail.

Simon, are you saying that you would not be willing to code software (for hire) in the public domain? How much would you charge to rewrite/release Zwiki in the public domain? Once it is there, as you recognized, there is no going back. If not led by you, others will do it. It will be called Zwiki, or it will be by another name. You have the power to decide (and convince your contributors as well) if you want enable Zwiki to truly flourish or if you would rather open the door for another wiki product with a more liberal license to take its place over the long run. I know that this is the inevitable outcome. Really free, unrestricted, public domain software that encourages all types of use and sharing of code will win out over similar GPL-restricted code.

I won't be able to convince everyone, but I want to make a strong effort here to avoid duplicating your efforts. If you decide to go ZPL to get in line with FreeBSD?, Python and Zope, why stop there? Set the example by going public domain and watch Zwiki development take off.

If any of you find yourselves with strong opinions about this issue, please get in touch, I would really appreciate your feedback.

Nate n_johnson@yahoo.com http://betterdifferent.com

Rendering pages like IssueNoXXXX? --Hans Beck, Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:48:16 -0700 reply

Hi,

I'm using Zwiki 0.22.0 with Zop 2.6, and my Installation doesn't render pages like IssueNoXXXX?. But these pages could be created and a visitable and changeable in ZMI. Is this a known problem ? I've looked in FAQ, docs and on zwiki.org and found nothing.

Thanks and greetings

Hans

Rendering pages like IssueNoXXXX? --Simon Michael, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:19:54 -0700 reply
What happens ?

What if you add some issue description after the XXXX ?

Mirroring a Zwiki

Is there a good way to mirror a zwiki?

thanks scott

FAQ --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:39:39 -0700 reply
The anchor references to questions ending in ? (eg. How ?) do not work on IE (5 and 6) for Windows. (Fine on Mozilla, Mac.)

granular page-trail-based permissions? -- Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:28:16 -0700 reply
One thing I thought that was cool in the old zope.org wikis was the ability to set permissions for a single page and various pages related to it (child pages, or maybe anything following it, etc.). I think this could be handy for quickie creation of tiny short-lived private groups hidden away within more open spaces. Like embedding QuickTopic? into a Wiki. (I'm reminded/inspired by JonUdell?'s EmailsSpecialPowers? piece.) http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/z2003-09-15-UdellEmailSpecialPower

granular page-trail-based permissions? --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:39:03 -0700 reply
Funny you should mention this... the RegulatingYourPages page and feature have recently put on the "is this feature worth the maintenance?" mode.

clear recycle_bin --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:52:41 -0700 reply
Saw the note on the FrontPage about catalog optimizations. I think the contents of recycle_bin are in your catalog (unless you've found a way to keep sub-folders from being indexed :-? ) and chucking them might eak out a tiny bit more resources.

... -- Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0700 reply
SECURITY

The BasicFrontPage says that I need to be "aware of the issues" involved in a server-side trojan issue. It points me to many scary looking pages telling me how setting up ZWiki will cause my whole site to spontaneously combust. Question: IS THIS FIXED? And if not where is there an easy to follow HOW-TO on how to make sure my site is not vulnerable?

Someone please answer this!

security --SimonMichael, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:13:14 -0700 reply

The BasicFrontPage says that I need to be "aware of the issues" involved in a server-side trojan issue. It points me to many scary looking pages telling me how setting up ZWiki will cause my whole site to spontaneously combust. Question: IS THIS FIXED? And if not where is there an easy to follow HOW-TO on how to make sure my site is not vulnerable?

It doesn't exist yet; perhaps it should be at SecurityDiscussion. It will include words to the effect of "Zwiki, currently in development status, has been developed for primarily cooperative communities and has not been security-hardened. Running a wiki with only trusted editors should not make your server any less secure than Zope itself (but Zwiki has not been audited for this). Running a fully-open wiki with non-trusted/anonymous editors makes you potentially vulnerable to DTML/javascript/HTML server trojans (details, links). Most javascript is disabled by default; you can disable DTML completely with a no_dtml property on your root folder (see ReleaseNotes). Javascript/HTML trojan abuse may still be possible after this, we don't know; the remaining level of risk is something many sites don't bother about. The default DTML configuration is still evolving. We welcome your research and documentation of the security implications of anonymous-writable zwikis. Joyful Systems is available to do this work at any time."

Good question. You're actually to first to ask it directly that I can recall..

quick update --SimonMichael, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:26:57 -0700 reply
Delete is fixed and the catalog optimization for hierarchy generation is in effect again (it was looking for title_or_id which has been removed from the catalog). Sorry for the downtime this morning. Also I'm experimenting with an automatic discussion section separator, so you may see some double rules/"discussion" headings here and there.

clear recycle_bin --Simon Michael, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:37:42 -0700 reply
They should not be indexed.. ZwikiAndZCatalog has the trick

AllPages -- Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:58:06 -0700 reply
Had to get rid of CMFPlone AllPages temporarily because output is badly rendered as of my latest upgrade. I did Plone 1.0.5 along with 0.22, without looking things over in between, which is probably not the best idea. Prime suspect would probably be some CSS handling. Has anyone experienced this kind of problem lately?

Rendering pages like IssueNoXXXX? --Hans Beck, Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:56:34 -0700 reply
Hi, That are the error messages: -------------------------------------------------- Site Error An error was encountered while publishing this resource.

Bad Request

Sorry, a site error occurred.

Traceback (innermost last):

 Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publish_module 
Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish 
Module Zope.App.startup, line 199, in zpublisher_exception_hook 
Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish 
Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply 
Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object 
Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 273, in __call__ 
Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 2481, in upgrade 
Module Products.ZWiki, line 152, in manage_addProperty 
Module OFS.PropertyManager, line 248, in manage_addProperty 
Module OFS.PropertyManager, line 175, in _setProperty 
Bad Request
-----------------------------------------------------

it doesn't matter if the name is "IssueNo0004? anything" or "IssueNo0004?", it is the same if creating the page at ZMI or by using the zwiki mechanism

BTW, I'm using Win2k

Subtopics --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:33:07 -0700 reply
Is this a magic property?

Subtopics --Simon Michael, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:55:18 -0700 reply
Not yet.. I hacked it into the render methods and let upgradeAll grind it's way through all pages.

It's always on right now. Too obtrusive ? or maybe we will adjust. It makes the hierarchy more important and could make it easier to develop docs in the way of drupal books (cf ZWiki). Ideas welcome.

Re: IssueTracker page broken --Simon Michael, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:41:21 -0700 reply
Thank you, fixed.

Subtopics --Simon Michael, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:43:28 -0700 reply
I had to take it out.. it broke some dtml pages and was wrong - children need to be calculated dynamically at view time, not at edit time. This is not yet a totally cheap operation so disabled for the moment.

Rendering pages like IssueNoXXXX? --Simon Michael, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:06:39 -0700 reply
I thought this worked but apparently not. It's expecting the issue_categories/issue_severities/issue_statuses folder properties to be there. You can add these manually or try CVS where I've added a fix. Thanks.

FAQ --Simon Michael, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:09:46 -0700 reply
Dean - do the faq links not work at all in IE ? Or just the ones with space before the ? ?

Really those urls should be quoted but it's inconvenient.

FAQ -- Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:14:49 -0700 reply
Just the ones with the space preceding the question mark. I didn't think about quoting. :-/

Zwiki and GPL vs ZPL vs BSD vs Public Domain --Simon Michael, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:29:53 -0700 reply
Hi Nate - thanks for this and your letter. As is so often the case in these discussions we have similar goals and different ideas about the most effective strategies.

> Unless every single author specifically assigned their copyright to > Simon, then he would not have the legal authority to change the > license for Zwiki as a whole

That's why since very early on the copyright has read:

(c) 1999,2000,2001,2002,2003 Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> for the zwiki community.

Not that I've asked anyone for papers.

Public domain has well-documented problems, though I can't put my finger on a doc right now. If I remember correctly one was that someone can take your PD code, copyright it and sue you for infringement. Something of that kind. A license (any license) gives the developer more protection against such things. GPL gives the developer most protection, at least in practice and to date, and so it is the conservative safe choice.

Whether I would offer parts of zwiki under an alternate PD license, or develop new code and release it as PD, for hire, is an interesting question. Like most GPL developers I'm open to providing GPL exceptions for commercial use for a fee. Releasing as PD is more than an exception though. It's "will you give up the GPL for this lesser non-license with it's known problems ?" Well.. all I can say is that if the offer was high enough, I'd have to go and re-read those PD problem docs. :)

couple of ?s --dan mcmullen, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:35:41 -0700 reply

running ZWiki 0.22/Zope 2.6.2/Mozilla/W2K

tia! dan

couple of ?s --SimonMichael, Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:19:49 -0700 reply
The regulations form was removed from zwiki's plone edit form.. and what do you know, it's not in the default one either. So the bit-rot has already set in. I see back in march I wrote:

 revision 1.1
 date: 2003/03/29 04:45:19;  author: simon;  state: Exp;
 and lastly, a page template version of editform. I have not bothered with
 regulations until I hear from users.

And here you are (hi. :) You could get the old editform.dtml from the 0.18 release and drop it into a editform DTMLMethod in your wiki. It might work. If you go to that trouble, keep us posted.

No idea about the EE problem, sorry.

Daydreaming: "Find related pages/articles/comments" --PieterB, Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:18:02 -0700 reply
Hi there... I've been thinking of a nice new feature: "find similar pages", which would work on more than one (z)wiki's or blog. The plan is to index/spider several sites (such as zwiki.org) extract all the text on it (and handle comments as seperate text), and feed the plain text to a Bayesian filter as a trainingdocument for the URL (and all the Zwiki page parents). This can be used to create a zwiki-classifier. The classifier can then be used to calculate the "distance" between any of the pages/articles/comments, and calculate the Top-N documents which are similar to the specific document.

I can even use the zwiki-mail, to minimize the load on zwiki.org.

I found the following classifiers (C++/C/Java/Python) using http://freshmeat.net/ which might be relevant:

Classifier4J: Classifier4J is a java library that provides an API for automatic classification of text. The default (and only current) implementation of this API is a Bayesian classifier. This library can be used for multiple purposes - as a spam filter or a blog classifier

Reverend: Reverned is a general purpose Bayesian classifier written in Python. It is designed to be easily extended to any application domain.

Divmod: Divmod Quotient is a personal conversation server. It is built on the Twisted framework, Lupy search engine and The Reverend bayesian classifier. Bayesian Network Tools in Java (BNJ): Java/XML toolkit for research using Bayesian networks and other graphical models of probability (exact and approximate inference, structure learning, etc.

Bayes++: Bayes++ is a library of C++ classes that implement numerical algorithms for Bayesian Filtering. They provide tested and consistent numerical methods and the class hierarchy represents the wide variety of Bayesien filtering algorithms and system models.

dbacl - digramic Bayesian classifier: dbacl is a general purpose digramic Bayesian text classifier. It can learn text documents you provide, and then compare new input with the learned categories. It can be used for spam filtering, or within your own shell scripts.

Bayesian Network Classifiers in Java: jBNC is a Java toolkit for training, testing, and applying Bayesian Network Classifiers. Implemented classifiers have been shown to perform well in a variety of artificial intelligence, machine learning, and data mining applications.

Pyndex: Pyndex is a simple and fast full-text indexer and Bayesian classifier implemented in Python. It uses Metakit as its storage back-end. It works well for quickly adding search to an application, and is also well suited to in-memory indexing and search.

Bayesian Filter Library: A general purpose C++ library. Essentially Bayesian Filtering is a way of having a program learn to categorize information from a specific user through pattern recognition. (C++)

libbayes: libbayes is a library for solving Bayesian decision theoretic problems in C.

Bichoco: Bichoco is a bayesian networks framework composed of a library written in Standard C++ and a GUI software. The library is ISO-C++ compliant. The GUI is ISO-C++ compliant and GNOME compliant (it is based on gnomemm library).

Anybody got some expertise with "automatic text classification" using open source tools? Anybody want to help thinking about this comment or want to contribute to it in some other form?

Subtopics --SimonMichael, Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:53:08 -0700 reply
Automatic subtopics have been re-enabled. They'll appear when you next edit or /clearCache a page. Sometimes these are useful, sometimes not; I'd like to avoid confusing options but I'm not sure it's possible to live with these always on. (See eg IssueTracker.)

Subtopics --DeanGoodmanson, Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:22:18 -0700 reply
Thoughts on whether this would be kept outside the document? My surprise was that I couldn't find it in the edited text. (I think I communicated this similarly and poorly on BillSeitz page.)

I think I'd like it below the footer, but I can understand it between the doc and comment portion. There are also interesting implications to the /print method. One current bug in the print method is that you have to specify a value for the attributes for them to be not None. Do you know another way around this?

How can I mirror? -- Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:26:23 -0700 reply
Can you explain what you want the mirror for? Reference or ... or backup?

http://zwiki.org/FAQ#How%20can%20I%20view%20or%20print%20all%20pages%20in%20a%20hierarchy? (Print all w/ children.)

There's also the [curl]? or wget approach.

sorry --simon, Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:29:32 -0700 reply
I just bounced someone's mailin by restarting the server.

Comments --Bob McElrath?, Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:57:01 -0700 reply
I had a thought....why does ZWiki not have a comment mode? I mean leading line comments like:

# This is a comment...
Is anybody opposed to such a thing? Mixing HTML and stx is somewhat distateful, it would be nice if stx had its own comment mechanism.

Of course I should fix LatexWiki to respect HTML comments...

Zwiki and GPL vs ZPL vs BSD vs Public Domain -- Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:28:02 -0700 reply
Simon, I am searching for those Public-Domain-problem docs myself, and I keep turning up the same arguments: -you lose control- -you can't prevent someone else for taking credit for your work -you can't force someone to keep the source code open -you can't force someone not to charge money or add restrictions to the derivative work

"someone can take your PD code, copyright it and sue you for infringement." One cannot choose to "copyright" something, which I why I still believe that you are legally incorrect to say that you have control over the copyright to contributed code without an overt act by each contributor (just like some projects assign their copyright to the FSF). Copyright protection happens automatically under the law for the author. Certainly there is plenty of evidence, forensic and by means of personal testimony, about who is wrote the software and exactly when, not the least of which would be the cvs repository. No one can claim a copyright for the portions of their work that can easily be shown to have already been released into the public domain. "conservative safe choice." This doesn't seem the typical mantra of one so close to changing the world!

Not just with respect to software, but for everything, I am convinced that unrestricted (non-forced) sharing (no fear!) is the far superior means of making change.

FreeBSD? is attracting development BECAUSE of its liberal license. The more liberal, the more you will get! from: http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/darwin/faq.html " Q. Why did Apple decide to share all of its modifications with the BSD community?

A. Although the BSD licenses don't require companies to post their sources, divergent code bases are very hard to maintain. We believe that the open source model is the most effective form of development for certain types of software. By pooling our expertise with the open source development community, we expect to improve the quality, performance, and feature set of our software. In addition, we realize that many developers enjoy working with open source software, and we want to give them the opportunity to use that kind of environment while they're creating solutions for Apple customers.

Although many people think that the rather simple BSD license does little to protect the openness of the code, it has contributed significantly to Apple's ability to adapt the code for the benefit of Mac users. Its emphasis on sharing code has also heightened our own commitment to the open development process. "

Please, let's keep this discussion going. Thanks!!!

Nate

ps now there is more about my general philosophy which tells me all this is true without a doubt on http://betterdifferent.com/values also see what would happen to computing if we redesigned everything to enable unrestricted sharing: http://betterdifferent.com/software

AttributeError? --gif, Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:37:38 -0700 reply
Just upgraded to Zwiki 0.22.0 on Zope 2.6.2b5 and now I get this when accessing an old ZWiki: Traceback (innermost last):

 -------------------------------
Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publish_module
 Module Products.Localizer, line 58, in new_publish
 Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish
 Module Zope.App.startup, line 199, in zpublisher_exception_hook
 Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 89, in publish
 Module ZPublisher.BaseRequest, line 418, in traverse
 Module ZPublisher.BaseRequest, line 494, in old_validation
AttributeError 
-------------------------

Newly added Wikis work fine. Any help appreciated!

Daydreaming: "Find related pages/articles/comments" --jos yule, Mon, 22 Sep 2003 06:38:47 -0700 reply
You might want to look at Zoe for some inspiration, i've been using it and its pretty interesting/cool

http://zoe.nu/itstories/home.php?data=stories

it folds into the whole interwingle-ly thinking. See this article:

http://www.mozilla.org/blue-sky/misc/199805/intertwingle.html

j

Subtopics --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:56:51 -0700 reply
After further review, I like these but stand by my wish that they are seperated from page content & discussion. Thus, would putting it in a bordered table suffice? (At times I've felt that every transcluded page be similarly indicated/annotated..)

btw, I like the new footer layout.

Subtopics --Simon Michael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:31:17 -0700 reply
It definitely needs something. As you probably saw, I liked the way drupal keeps these links with the document, with the comments coming afterwards and being clearly an "extra" that you're not required to read. The nav links on zwiki.org are too hard to see right now though, in part due to the mish-mash of old- and new-style comments we have on this site.

I'll try enclosing them in a shaded table. I'm not sure I can leave them on though, since they slow down page rendering. I have gone part way to allowing them to be enabled only for certain pages (see widget in the editform) - the idea is you could turn on this feature on eg the top FAQ or Zwiki Book page, where it's most useful; all offspring would inherit the setting too. I'm not 100% happy with this either. I do think it's a nice feature that a wiki can be equivalent to a GNU info manual, though.

skin changes --Simon Michael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:56:30 -0700 reply

btw, I like the new footer layout.

thanks.. you noticed these skin tweaks eh.

For some time I've been tempted to get rid of the gray background at the top in favour of a more plain header like some other popular wiki engines. I think the minimal header says "see! I'm light and efficient like other wikis!", "no need to be scared of zope baggage!" and "ready to customize!". So I've removed gray from the top - and added some at the bottom.

I must have tried just about every layout permutation of those footer elements by now. Subject is now above message body - less compact but much more intuitive to most people.

The help link has moved to the center, leaving only page actions at bottom right. The center links are a bunch of standard wiki actions with "friendly" non-wiki names borrowed from CommonPlace. These replace the user bookmark links - with so many wikis around I think we rarely have time to set bookmarks so I'm thinking that option should be dropped in favour of these standard links. That center area is where we could probably fit the navigation links too.

I originally wanted number of subscribers at the top as a valuable indicator of a page's value - like a rating - but I think it's not such a bad idea to have it down by the comment button either, as a reminder to someone considering making a comment.

Any other feedback ? There's always a bit more clutter than I want, but I think it's functional and shouldn't scare people too badly. If these changes seem agreeable I guess they'll become the default in 0.23.

AttributeError? --Simon Michael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:00:50 -0700 reply
Sorry, I'm stumped by that.

Zwiki and GPL vs ZPL vs BSD vs Public Domain --Simon Michael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:16:23 -0700 reply
Nate - sorry I don't have time to respond at length just now. You make a good point about falling back into fear thinking, but on the other hand it makes no sense for a free software developer to take on risk that can easily be avoided.

Have you read the writings at gnu.org by the way ?

Subtopics --SimonMichael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:07 -0700 reply
Test: showing navigation links only in full mode. This makes some kind of sense, but means you can't rely on these links for documentation.

more skin changes --SimonMichael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:04:05 -0700 reply
fit the page management panel on one row; try it and the link panel at the top; move site links left and level-of-detail links right; show comment form even in minimal mode.

more skin changes --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:43:09 -0700 reply
The delete button is where I currently reach for "edit" and "save". !:-} I like edit at the top, but would also like it at the footer, as the next step after reading a page.

Plans for Bookmarks and AnnoyingQuote?

catalog rebuilding help needed --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:47:16 -0700 reply
Would you point me to your code (or catalog rebuilding steps) to keep the catalog from searching the recycle_bin? I need to do so for all sub-folders.

I'm currently battling with backlinks and the catalog code that leverages canonicalLinks seems to be most appropriate, except for those dang subfolder entries!

catalog rebuilding help needed --SimonMichael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:03:19 -0700 reply
Using zope 2.6 or greater, try this in the expr field on the catalog find form:

 self.folder().id == 'mywikifolderid'

more skin changes --SimonMichael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:06:44 -0700 reply
Yes that was a problem. It's now at the bottom. Navigation links now appear at the top in full mode, and I've rearranged all the quick access keys, see QuickReference.

more skin changes --SimonMichael, Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:12:01 -0700 reply

would also like it at the footer, as the next step after reading a page.

It was busy-looking, but I may put it back.. you could also just hit alt-N/P/U.

Plans for Bookmarks and AnnoyingQuote?

Drop em! Front page only!

editform.pt --Steve Knight, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 03:58:21 -0700 reply
Just a question really but my ZWiki users were complaining that when editing forms they had to hit refresh to override their browser caching and get the most recent version.

After trawling through the discussion it appears someone suggested adding <META HTTP-EQUIV name="expire" ...> to the editform.pt. I've done this and now everyone's happy.

Is there any reason why this can't be in the default? Or did I miss something?

editform.pt -- Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:03:34 -0700 reply

adding <META HTTP-EQUIV name="expire" ...>

The only reason I know of that this isn't the default is the issue where there's a collision (user B updates while A is editing, then A gets the error screen and needs to go back.) The other functionality you may lose is the ability to go "back" and tweek instead of clicking edit again.

Please keep us posted. The browser caching issue is frustrating. Is it any browser or a certain one?

removing HTTP_REFERRER -- Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:15:21 -0700 reply
Anybody successfully masked the HTTP_REFERRER from your Zope or Zwiki instance?

My attempts to overwrite the variable simply created another! I was hopeing a modification the the page code would work, rather than having to modify zope code, as in looking there it seems that the ZMI may leverage it in some places.

editform.pt --Steve Knight, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:27:48 -0700 reply

Please keep us posted. The browser caching issue is frustrating. Is it any browser or a certain one?

Opera7.11 & IE6.0

editform.pt --Simon Michael, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:42 -0700 reply
Thanks for the reminder.. did you see this at #390 Going into edit mode shows old content of page or somewhere else ?

Can someone can tell me exactly what the appropriate header is for the edit form ? I'll add it for 0.23.

I'd welcome any http header suggestions for the other zwiki views too. I once tried setting the last-modified header to last edit time to make them more browser-cacheable, but didn't get it working. Perhaps it would be appropriate for at least minimal mode, which has few dynamic elements.

editform.pt --Simon Michael, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:21:48 -0700 reply

The only reason I know of that this isn't the default is the issue where there's a collision (user B updates while A is editing, then A gets the error screen and needs to go back.) The other functionality

How will the expires header affect this ?

you may lose is the ability to go "back" and tweek instead of clicking edit again.

Yes, that would be bad.

Shouldn't some kind of last-modified header be appropriate here also ? If we tell the browser when thing last changed, we might expect it to figure out what to do.

AngryDenial -- Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:31:23 -0700 reply
Should this page go? Noticed it via FrontPage.

More importantly, can we setup a page for this type of question outside of GeneralDiscussion?

AngryDenial --SimonMichael, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:49:06 -0700 reply
Nooo! AngryDenial!

I like this page and you see, it's useful :)

There's WikiCleanup, if you don't want to post such things here. It's not a discussion page though, I would think here is best unless the amount of cleanup activity gets unprecedentedly huge.

editform.pt --Steve Knight, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:58:59 -0700 reply

you may lose is the ability to go "back" and tweek instead of clicking edit again.

Yes, that would be bad.

Ahh maybe that's why it was never done before. Speaking personally I think I'd ALWAYS want the editform to show me the current page in the ZODB. But I guess I'm probably just a bit weird!

I'm not sure how you're going to tell the difference between a back and a fresh edit. Is there a way?

AngryDenial -- Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:23:39 -0700 reply
:-)

I've added " More like this: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/5/31/7738/22985 "

editform.pt --dan mcmullen, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:21:46 -0700 reply
SimonMichael wrote:

I once tried setting the last-modified header to last edit time to make them more browser-cacheable, but didn't get it working.

setting last-modified seems like a good idea to me. it would make it easier to track changes in ZWiki pages generally. what were the problems? (i might be able to work on this.)

re: couple of ?s -- Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:57:02 -0700 reply
an update:

SimonMichael wrote:

>The regulations form was removed from zwiki's plone edit form. [...]? You could get the old editform.dtml from the 0.18 release and drop it into a editform DTMLMethod in your wiki. It might work. If you go to that trouble, keep us posted.<<<

this displays the regulations edit form at the bottom of the edit page, but edit by owner and create subpage by owner don't seem to have any effect - anonymous users can still edit/create. possibly i'm not understanding ownership. is this the authenticated zope owner? the user saved in the cookies?

in any case, i'm wondering: can (most of) the functionality of regulations be achieved using SubWikis? and the usual Zope permissions mechanism? anything lost using that scheme? what is the state of the art in SubWikis??

regarding the External Editor mbcs error: Casey Duncan, the author, says this may be due to a missing dependancy in the windoze .exe version. he will be looking into it, but his workaround of using the source distribution got things working for me (w/ a small hack).

editform.pt --Simon Michael, Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:56:30 -0700 reply
It didn't work. :)

How can I mirror? --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:25:47 -0700 reply
another possibility: http://harvestman.freezope.org/

re: couple of ?s --Simon Michael, Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:58:49 -0700 reply
I'd guess regulations pay attention to the authenticated zope owner, only. So it may be that they don't work propertly in anonymous-accessible wikis.

The advantage of regulations was that any user could set fine-grained policy within a single large wiki, without having to go to the ZMI. They were used on the old zope.org. But IMHO they made things so complicated that users went elsewhere.

1.0 discussion --Simon Michael, Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:42:16 -0700 reply
I just posted this over on ZwikiOneReleaseDiscussion, and I guess that page is the place to continue this thread. Comments welcome.

All going well, the november release will mark the five year anniversary of the first Zwiki release. Though ZwikiInternationalization? has not yet happened to the degree I intended - it needs someone to take it by the scruff of the neck - five years is long enough.

I've updated SimonsPlan2004 with some tentative plans for (gasp) 1.0. This includes the things I can think of right now that seem important for 1.0. I think Nov 1 is too soon for 1.0, but it just may be the right time to call it 1.0 alpha. I think we need a feature freeze for at least one solid month after that, preferably two, before 1.0 (may be hard).

0.23rc1 released --simon, Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:05:04 -0700 reply
or is it an alpha...

ReleaseNotes are not done, please see ChangeLog? for now.

cookie problems w/ redirects --dan mcmullen, Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:38:10 -0700 reply
anyone else had problems w/ ZWiki setting cookies when using external redirects?

i'm using (windoze) Apache to redirect requests like http://zwiki/PageName to

http://localhost:8080/VirtualHostBase/http/zwiki:80/zwikiFoler/VirtualHostRoot/PageName which a Zope virtualHostMonster translates to http://localhost:8080/zwikiFoler/PageName

the problem i'm seeing is that when UserOptions? tries to set cookies (for either full/simple/minimal or user prefs) only one or two of the cookies are actually set.

i put some prints in UserFolder? to confirm that all the cookies were getting into the RESPONSE. other than that, i'm stumped.

tia, dan

cookie problems w/ redirects --Simon Michael, Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:24:58 -0700 reply
Hi Dan.. printing stuff in UserOptions? is a good idea. As it happens I have just been debugging a problem there, I used dtml-var REQUEST and some printouts where it sets cookies.

FWIW my problem was this: I was running UserOptions? inside a plone site for the first time, and in this case it turns out for some reason that dtml code's namespace does not include the contents of REQUEST. So I had to add a dtml-with REQUEST around the whole lot.

0.23rc2 released --SimonMichael, Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:07:27 -0700 reply
with ReleaseNotes. "Permission renames, useful page/catalog/tracker setup methods, more functional default skin, expensive but nifty hierarchy navigation options, miscellaneous bugfixes."

help helping --dan mcmullen, Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:53:14 -0700 reply
as a newcomer to this community, i'm at a bit of a loss how best to help w/ the 0.23 release.

i've installed rc2. (on top of my existing, backed up, data - is this safe? :-) i'll report problems from my present use of ZWiki as a personal data repository. (what's the best way to do that? the tracker?)

i could just go bug hunting & probably turn up some some odd corner cases, but do we need more of that for this release? any particular areas of functionality that could use some exercise?

i could also do some bug squashing if someone pointed me at a few that would be good to fix, but i'm unsure which are worth the effort at this stage.

i have a patch or two i've made to the 0.22 codebase that i will be integrating into 0.23 asap. should i wait to suggest those til after 0.23 is released?

is general feedback on the design and user interface of 0.23 useful at this point? where should that go?

suggestions?

tia, dan

help helping --SimonMichael, Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:39:28 -0700 reply
Thanks Dan, I like to see this question :)

Quick answers: yes it's generally very safe to upgrade zwiki. There has never been a case of data loss due to upgrade, as far as I know. Of course the recommendation is to always backup anyway.

The tracker is the right place for issues - if you're unsure of it's nature or want some help characterising it, post here first.

I'm not looking for new bugs before this release, just hoping we catch any obvious breakage or regressions. We do need a serious bug squash effort, but during a full month (see SimonsPlan2004). I don't have any specific shaky feelings about 0.23's new stuff (ReleaseNotes) - I've seen the setup methods work in a plone site, I've had a good look at the hierarchy code in action here - so I would say test whatever there looks interesting to you or is something you depend on.

But any bug squashing, any time, is very welcome. Use FilterIssues to narrow down the open issues - I did a pass through these last night and closed about ten (the easy ones :). Patches too - post these somewhere on the wiki, in the tracker, or here. Design & UI feedback - sure, this is the place.

If you're able to help with the unit tests or any automated testing, that is very effective. One thing I think we should do is convert the unit tests to use ZopeTestCase?, as the latest ones do.

Finally, WikiCleanup may seem a little indirect but it's also a high-leverage activity. Better documentation will lead to more users & contributors, and a better understanding of the priorities for improvement. There are a number of specific tasks open on that page. Improving the HowToHelp so that it answers these questions more effectively is perhaps the highest leverage of all.

In short, lots of opportunities. I hope one or more of these catches your interest.

help helping --SimonMichael, Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:49:58 -0700 reply
Releases are made on their own CVS branch, by the way, so in principle we should be able to handle continuous full-speed development on the trunk.

See also the projects list on ZwikiDevelopment?.

help helping --SimonMichael, Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:01:04 -0700 reply
I guess we do need some more testing on the setup methods. Eg setupPages, with a single page, with existing pages, in plain wikis and CMF wikis.

permission fix --simon, Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:14:31 -0700 reply
The skins were using the old add comment permission, fixed in cvs.

0.23rc2 released -- Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:06:58 -0700 reply
setupPages method does not parse optional parents list(#parents:) ?

RecentChanges? glitch? --dan mcmullen, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:54:22 -0700 reply
in RecentChanges?, my ZWiki ends up getting the modification date from the line:

  <dtml-var bobobase_modification_time fmt="pCommon">

this ends up fetching the modification date of the Catalog's brain object at the top of the dtml stack, instead of the WikiPage? as desired.

my fix is to wrap the logic to fetch the modification date with:

  <dtml-with "_.getitem('sequence-item').getObject()">
  ...
  </dtml-with>

this puts the WikiPage? itself on the top of the stack, & bobobase_modification_time returns it's date as desired.

is there some reason the attempts to fetch lastEditTime() are failing on my ZWiki?

should i make an "official" patch in ZwikiIssueTracker for this?

also, to these novice eyes it looks like lastEditTime.toZone( and bobobase_modification_time.toZone( should have '() before the .'. am i missing something? (if so, then there's an extra () in the similar brute force code later on.)

also, is there a reason that an extra blank line is being inserted after every change line (w/ summaries off)?

best, dan

RecentChanges? glitch? --simon, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 15:59:49 -0700 reply

is there some reason the attempts to fetch lastEditTime() are failing on my ZWiki?

Yes (he said helpfully :).

Perhaps remove all that try..except malarkey to find out more. We should never be falling back on bobobase_modification_time these days. What's supposed to happen is RC calls pages, which returns "brains" - genuine catalog brains or pseudo PageBrains? - which should have a lastEditTime attribute. Perhaps you have a catalog installed, but without the lastEditTime metadata field ? setupCatalog should fix this.

Modern RC uses these brain objects (containing only small metadata) and tries to avoid loading the actual page objects, to reduce zodb activity and memory usage. Brain objects stores things like lastEditTime and bobobase_modification_time as simple attributes. Hope this makes things clearer.

I left the blank line in the latest RC layout because it seemed to help make the thing more regular and readable when page names are different lengths, some have notes and some don't, etc. I do sometimes miss the more compact display.

0.23rc2 released --simon, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:12:09 -0700 reply
Thanks! Fixed in cvs.

RecentChanges? glitch? --dan mcmullen, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:32:39 -0700 reply
the exception that lastEditTime() generates is:

  RuntimeError, function attributes not accessible in restricted mode

any clue what this means? (probably another misconfiguration on my end. :-(

RecentChanges? glitch? --simon, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:34:26 -0700 reply
No. Try setupCatalog ?

RecentChanges? glitch? --dan mcmullen, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:35:17 -0700 reply
oh yeah: i checked & there is a lastEditTime field in my catalog.

(commenting too quickly. time to stop hacking. :-|

RecentChanges? glitch? --simon, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:35:42 -0700 reply
Also maybe brackets you added ? Be sure to use the latest standard RecentChanges? code.

0.23rc3 released --simon, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:40:38 -0700 reply
Gets like chat, doesn't it :)

Zwiki 0.23rc3 2003-09-28

new linking code --simon, Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:51:10 -0700 reply
I'm testing the next step in linking optimization (all pages* methods return brains, so renderLink doesn't need to hit the zodb). Shout if you find breakage around zwiki.org.

0.23rc3 released -- Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:40:51 -0700 reply
Without ZCatalog,SearchPage always hits all Pages. Bug?

RecentChanges? glitch? --dan mcmullen, Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:45:28 -0700 reply
simon wrote: >>>Be sure to use the latest standard RecentChanges? code<<<

oh foo! latest RecentChanges? fixes things.

(so far: 1 problem already found; 1 false alarm; 1 operator error: guess this is a "learning experience" :-)

so, to completely upgrade an existing ZWiki:

did i miss anything?

simon also wrote: >>>Gets like chat, doesn't it :)<<<

would be nice if there were some way to mark a comment as "transient" so that it would disappear after a period of time (unless someone edits it to "persistent").

and simon wrote earlier: >>>I do sometimes miss the more compact [RecentChanges] display.<<<

any possibility of a finer grained preferences mechanism? it's unfortunate to have to make choices like this absolute. maybe a UserNamePreferences? page could be scanned automagically?

also, the trailing WikiName problem that is fixed for StructuredText pages still exists in WikiWikiMarkup? pages. (you probably know this. :-)

best, dan

Localization -- Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:02:53 -0700 reply
If possible, please move the words "next", "previous" and "up" defined in navlinks() of Parents.py to the skin wikipage.pt. Then localization will be easy. (0.23.0rc3)

external edit nit --DanMcmullen, Mon, 29 Sep 2003 17:26:33 -0700 reply
if i use an external editor to modify a page and (inadvertantly) remove the blank line after the "Log:" header i get:

NameError?: global name lstrip is not defined

fyi: midsection marker visible --DanMcmullen, Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:42:19 -0700 reply
http://zwiki.org/ZoPe3 as of tuesday am

fyi: midsection marker visible --Simon Michael, Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:06:37 -0700 reply
Dan, all, thanks for your investigations and reports.

Note you'll see "zwikimidsection" glitches all over, most or all of these are pages that were rendered with earlier code. Visiting /clearCache or hitting alt-W should fix it. Or I could upgradeAll but that would tie up the site for half an hour.

I'm mostly offline this week - will look at these other things when I can, and possibly hold off the release till I get back if it seems necessary.

running upgradeAll --SimonMichael, Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:08:10 -0700 reply
site will be slow for a bit

felt like hacking some code today... --DanMcmullen, Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:23:09 -0700 reply
...so tried out one way of removing HTML from Parents.py, inspired by Simon's comment wondering if this would be possible. anyone interested can take a look at the extremely fresh results at RenderNestingX. feedback appreciated. (it includes the option of displaying the page ancestry header as one line of page names separated by "::".)

... -- Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:45:28 -0800 reply
i designed a plone site.i have one problem site header has included buttons ie,labournews,archives etc.. i want to click on labour news diplay the contents of this folder will display plone default format.i want dispay this things and every folder contents display same user defined format not display plone defined format how can i solve this problem pls give me solution to me this adddr:sajumaryjoseph@yahoo.com