comments:

Statistics of Zwiki Issues and new idea --PieterB, Sat, 01 Nov 2003 04:33:06 -0800 reply
Just browsed a bit with FilterIssues. Here's a breakdown of all open/pending issues based on severity:

critical   0
serious    0
normal    73
minor     12
wishlist  83

I noticed quite some issues are of unknown/anonymous users. It might be an idea to use the username AnonymousUser as username if no username is specified with UserOptions?. That would make it possible to explain how to set the username and make it probably easier to see who posted a comment more easily in future.

More wishlist items which come to mind: clearer distinction optional note/upload a file or image, use javascript warning if file specified with upload doesn't exist instead of creating attachement of 0 bytes, delayed mailout (messages are send out by mail after an hour or so; the message-id will indicate that the message has been send out by e-mail).

LockingStrategy? --PieterB, Sat, 01 Nov 2003 05:55:44 -0800 reply
Are there any plans for an improved LockingStrategy? for Zwiki? I quite like the optimistic locking and warnings of MoinMoin, e.g. see http://twistedmatrix.com/users/jh.twistd/moin/moin.cgi/WikiSandBox?action=edit

Customizing IssueTracker --ktenney, Sat, 01 Nov 2003 06:17:11 -0800 reply
Howdy,

How do I add categories?

Can I add severity and status choices?

Thanks
Kent

Zwiki 0.24 released, zope.org release scripts available --Simon Michael, Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:06:26 -0800 reply
Zwiki 0.24 has been released. Release notes copied below, more information at http://zwiki.org .

Also, those of you doing product releases on zope.org may find the release automation rules in http://zwiki.org/zwikidir/Makefile useful.

Best wishes -Simon

Summary

Bugfixes.

Upgrade notes

Reminder: the plone skin disables DTML-based pages (like RecentChanges?) by default now. If you wish to enable those you'll need to remove the ZWiki/skins/zwiki_plone/no_dtml.dtml file after an upgrade.

In the ZMI add menu, "ZWiki Web" is now just "ZWiki".

Changes

General

Skins and content

Mail and messages

howto: extensible prefs/meta-content? --dan mcmullen, Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:41:21 -0800 reply
hello all,

for some of the user interface work i'm doing i need a couple of new faculties in ZWiki. i'm looking for input on good ways to implement:

my first thoughts are to put extensible prefs in a text based <User>Preferences page & meta-content in a special "H3r3B3Drag0nz..." area of the normal page text.

tia, dan

Any ideas for Upgrade failure - ArnoPucher -- Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:36:08 -0800 reply
during recent !upgradeAll of the last recent WIKI version I get a NameError? ...

the Traceback isn't really informative ...

Traceback (innermost last): File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 150, in publish_module File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 114, in publish File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\Zope\__init__.py, line 158, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: DailyTodo) File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 98, in publish File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\mapply.py, line 88, in mapply (Object: upgradeAll) File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 39, in call_object (Object: upgradeAll) File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\Products\ZWiki\Admin.py, line 71, in upgradeAll (Object: DailyTodo) NameError

is there a way to bash more info from the !upgradeAll function ?

Thanks in advance

Any ideas for Upgrade failure - ArnoPucher --Simon Michael, Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:57:47 -0800 reply
Hi Arno,

upgradeAll (Object: DailyTodo?) NameError?

Ack, my upgradeAll improvements weren't complete. At the top of Admin.py please change:

  from Utils import DLOG

to:

  from Utils import DLOG,formattedTraceback

You should then get a traceback for the problem page - though only in the event log, as a nod to security. Do we need to collect these and print them on screen as well ?

Customizing IssueTracker --Simon Michael, Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:09:39 -0800 reply
ktenney wrote:

How do I add categories?

Can I add severity and status choices?

Kent - yes. You should see some issue_* properties on your wiki folder - see the Properties tab in ZMI.

corrupt page after bogus reparent? --dan mcmullen, Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:05:57 -0800 reply
w/ ZWiki 0.23, after reparenting to a non-existent page name, the page persistently generates the attribute error shown below. it seems to be because the parents page property has been changed to the non-existent page name.

  Traceback (innermost last):
   Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish
   Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
   Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object
   Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 286, in __call__
   Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 299, in render
   Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 388, in render_msgstxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml
   Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 520, in renderMidsectionIn
   Module Products.ZWiki.Parents, line 443, in subtopicsEnabled
  AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'getObject'

corrupt page after bogus reparent? --DeanG, Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:19:34 -0800 reply
Is it this #633 Invalid backlinks cause an error ? (fixed on Oct. 22)

Any ideas for Upgrade failure - ArnoPucher -- Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:36:20 -0800 reply
The upgrade to 0.24 worked, just getting

Traceback (several times):

  2003-11-05T08:12:10 PROBLEM(100) Session Tracking Session automatic traversal failed to get sess
  ion data
  Traceback (innermost last):
    File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\Products\Sessions\SessionDataManager.py, line 244, in __call__

  AttributeError: __of__

in the log (error, warning, whatevr ???)

But now unfortunatly the my IssueTracker broke :(

Tracker Traceback:

  NameError
  Sorry, a site error occurred.

  Traceback (innermost last):
    File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 150, in publish_module
    File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 114, in publish
    File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\Zope\__init__.py, line 158, in zpublisher_exception_hook
      (Object: dokuwiki)
    File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 98, in publish
    File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\mapply.py, line 88, in mapply
      (Object: IssueTrackerOld)
    File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 39, in call_object
      (Object: IssueTrackerOld)
    File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\Products\ZWiki\ZWikiPage.py, line 279, in __call__
      (Object: IssueTrackerOld)
    File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\Products\ZWiki\ZWikiPage.py, line 292, in render
      (Object: IssueTrackerOld)
    File C:\Programme\EOL\lib\python\Products\ZWiki\ZWikiPage.py, line 375, in render_msgstxprelinkdtmlfitissuehtml
      (Object: IssueTrackerOld)
    File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\OFS\DTMLDocument.py, line 127, in __call__
      (Object: IssueTrackerOld)
    File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\DocumentTemplate\DT_String.py, line 473, in __call__
      (Object: IssueTrackerOld)
    File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\DocumentTemplate\DT_Let.py, line 75, in render
      (Object: Catalog="_.getattr(folder(),getCatalogId())")
    File C:\PROGRA~1\EOL\lib\python\DocumentTemplate\DT_Util.py, line 159, in eval
      (Object: _.getattr(folder(),getCatalogId()))
      (Info: folder)
    File <string>, line 2, in f
  NameError

changed there anything in the folder attributes of the wiki folder ?

I have a SITE_CATALOG attribute which is correct. The "new" IssueTracker from www.zwiki.org doesn't seem to reference any catalog direct in the DTML code ...

If I use the www.zwiki.org IssueTracker none of my old (0.21) are presented ... only a odd presentation see [AP_Screen001]?

any ideas would be greatly appreciated ...

BTW: if this question can't be solved be a quick view to my description - just leave it ...

I will reread me at home through the whole (actual) ZwikiIssueTracker pages for getting the difference ... sigh ...

maybe a HasChanged topic with categories like "skin", "wiki page template" and for "ZWiki applications" for standard pages like RecentChanges?, IssueTracker, AllPages etc. would be nice :)

also a nice idea with the "Chapter *" Pages for the documentation :)

And now to something completly different :) -- Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:52:25 -0800 reply
Does anybody know an (preferably) freeware editor, as best simple to use under window for external ZWiki edits (no emacs,vi(m) - i know emacs and vim could surely do the job) with a simple user interface to incorporate ?

usability idea --ArnoPucher, Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:09:45 -0800 reply
how about having the line with

"home contents changes discussion issues index preferences help"

doubles at the top AND the bottom of a page ?

If I am at the end of page, and if want to edit it i have always to scroll up (or use CTRL+Home) to get up again before I can click edit, or use one of the shortcuts ...

usability idea --Jean Jordaan, Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:34:28 -0800 reply

If I am at the end of page, and if want to edit it i have always to scroll up (or use CTRL+Home) to get up again before I can click edit, or use one of the shortcuts ...

You can always just press Alt+e to edit, if your browser supports hotkeys ..

-- Jean Jordaan http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za

usability idea -- Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:19:21 -0800 reply
except in english programs where Alt+E usually opens the "Edit" menu in the title bar .. like ALT+H usally opens the Help :)

or in case of www.zwiki.org "M" opens Mails in Opera instead of jumping to "minimal" etc.

as long as there are more than one browser out there you will have always problems with shortcuts ...

Also this solution depends on "having a browser, which supports hotkeys", which maybe not alltime available, like if checking mobile from an internet caffee where I have no influence which browser I get.

The idea was to make it more usable on ALL browsers (but using design instead of features of programs)

see:

usability idea --Jean Jordaan, Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:01:12 -0800 reply

except in english programs where Alt+E usually opens the "Edit" menu in the title bar

Hmm .. Alt+e hotkey overrides the browser's menu activation in Mozilla. (But when I press Alt+t I get my window manager's "tag this tab" function instead of the browser's Tools menu!)

-- Jean Jordaan http://www.upfrontsystems.co.za

And now to something completly different :) --DeanG, Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:30:23 -0800 reply
I regularly use Scintilla and NoteTab?, and have heard good reviews for TextPad? and HTMLKit?.

Thanks alot - Scintilla is one of the niciest editors I have seen :)

it also is the editor control I wanted to program always but hadn't found the time and energy --ArnoPucher

Any ideas for Upgrade failure --Simon Michael, Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:00:12 -0800 reply
mercy.. alright, keep 'em coming..

AttributeError?: __of__

No ideas on that one - not Zwiki related as far as I can see

(Object: _.getattr(folder(),getCatalogId())) (Info: folder) File , line 2, in f NameError?

That method was removed or renamed. Yes, you should use the new IssueTracker code.. it calls pages() which takes care of finding the catalog.

If I use the www.zwiki.org IssueTracker none of my old (0.21) are presented ... only a odd presentation see [AP_Screen001]?

I think your catalog may be missing some metadata.. visit SomePage/setupTracker and try IssueTracker again.

I will try at work (I forget my ZWiki at work ...) again ... thanks for the tip --ArnoPucher

Any ideas for Upgrade failure --ArnoPucher, Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:04:27 -0800 reply
I found the problem regarding my Issues - procedure short explained for others :)

The problem was, as suggested by you the catalog. Unfortunatly it was a little trickier to solve as just SomePage/setupTracker.

As mentioned I had to upgrade from 0.21 (and now @ home from 0.15 (!)). The solution in short words has been:

seemed to work perfect - got new working tracker :)

BUT: My old Issues (in some of my wikis I had already Issues) the newly generated IssueTracker page just failed with the usual "NameError" ...

After remembering an odd behavior I had before to get an (old) tracker working there we had the problem:

From older Tracker versions you had to incorporate a String property called "SITE_CATALOG" to the wiki folder ...

Deleted the property => SomePage/setupTracker => broad grin - all worked

Again - Many Thanks For This Great Product (and especially to the inventor of upgradeAll and ESPECIALLY setupTracker - I remember the time installing the tracker by adapting some odd DTML snippets from www.zwiki.org ...)

ExternalEditor -- Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:11:06 -0800 reply
What right needs a user to have to external edit a page ?

quote from Zwiki

to use external editor, your wiki users will need

from my personal experience I can say thats NOT enough :(

Categories, WikiBadges --DeanG, Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:40:55 -0800 reply
I've been thinking a lot about these based on Ward Cunningham's Artima.com Inteview and this blog entry

  1. Categories are a simple concept, supported in Zwiki's backlinks. Do you like the concept? Should it be used here on Zwiki?
  2. Supporting this concept is that now that we're fairly catalog centric, adding a query "filter" on a. RecentChanges? and b. [RSSFeed]? is also rather simple. This would allow tracking only items in a particular category(s). Is that useful?? (a. is a cheap search and sort by time. :O)
  3. ? inquery category system: ?? = RFC, ???=Request for Help, ???!=Be glad this isn't in caps. ;-) ??

Categories, WikiBadges -- Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:52:10 -0800 reply
Category service wolud be appreciated very much by knowledge-intensive workers like me and future users of my portal. There is always a problem of cataloging huge amounts of links, documents, thougts etc. and make them accessible in this way.

There is a painful problem of the lack of simple, user-friendly and fast tools for building such catalogs, esp. if we need to assign the object to several cartegories. For example I tried to use Groove workspace, which is too heavy, and now use The Brain (Personal Brain) for some subjects.

Wiki Category service seems to be the best solution for this purpose, provided the page can be qualified to more than one category.

Of course, in each particular case there is a question of categories. The issue is difficult because it requires much experience in building ontologies more complex than a tree. This is a story for much more people than Computer Heroes :) Samotnik

Search woes --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:58:17 -0800 reply
Brute force search only accepts simple searches, eg. whitespace is included, "cow pig" must match "cow pig", BUT catches titles and complete page text including links.

Catalog search allows complex seaches, eg. "cow pig" would match on "is that a cow or a pig?" BUT searches text, not links or titles.

Will passing in more parameters to a Catalog search resolve this? ..and will it cause multiple hits?

ExternalEditor --SimonMichael, Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:32:23 -0800 reply
With current EE, you should need Use external editor and webdav lock/unlock permissions (if it's configured to use locking). You should not need view management screens. Where did you see that old help text ?

Search woes --SimonMichael, Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:38:52 -0800 reply

Will passing in more parameters to a Catalog search resolve this?

No - in general I can't make a brute force search, a catalog search with text index X, text index Y, or even text index X installed with different options, work the same way.

Where does this become a problem ? Are you moving between different wikis and bumping up against the differences ?

As far as I know the best we can do is document this better, and/or use a standard catalog and text index configuration as far as possible.

new skin docs --SimonMichael, Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:40:37 -0800 reply
CustomizingTheSkin and WikiTemplates have been rewritten.

Categories, WikiBadges --SimonMichael, Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:55:34 -0800 reply
Great link! Thanks Dean.

We've used page hierarchy here for subject categorization. You could do Category badges too, but I don't know if would be worthwhile to do both.

stuck --SimonMichael, Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:12:59 -0800 reply
Dan - I've installed your Parents.py changes and the wikipagex main page view seems to be working now, selectable at UserOptions?, except for the styles. I can't see why not, any help welcome.

The same goes for the commonplace skin, as a matter of fact, and also I'd love to know why it's taking so long to render.

finally --SimonMichael, Fri, 07 Nov 2003 00:01:49 -0800 reply
A temporary monkey patch used for epoz NG setup was causing FSFile?'s to lose their .css suffix, and they weren't being recognized as stylesheets without it.

So commonplace is still slow, but zwiki.org now offers three honest-to-god skins and a good solid infrastructure for further work. See UserOptions?, CustomizingTheSkin .

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under Plone -- Fri, 07 Nov 2003 06:04:05 -0800 reply
Hello,

I still am not able to get the DTML code for AllPages wrk on my site. The problem is, that somehow REQUEST cannot be accessed inside a dtml-in loop. Before the loop dtml-var REQUEST results in a dump of the request object, inside the loop the result is ''.

During an IRC-discussion with Simon, he suspected that the cause of the problem may be the fact, that I had moved my installation from one computer to another - the code works on plone.zwiki.org and we had no other clue of any differences between his site and mine.

I now created a new installation, but the problem still occurs. I installed Plone and ZWiki like this:

After I started the server, I made the following steps:

I had to change the path for PCGI_SOCKET_FILE in Zope.cgi, because our file server does not support sockets and I removed no_dtml.dtml. I did not change anything else.

Has anybody a clue what goes wrong here? Has anybody seen something likes this?

-- Andreas

Search woes -- Fri, 07 Nov 2003 08:05:33 -0800 reply

a catalog search with text index X, text index Y, or even text index X installed with different options, work the same way.

I don't understand that line.

I need to re-think my original problem statement, as I just found a new one: A page with "Kitty" on it will not get a catalog hit for "Kit", only "Kitty". Because of this, I need to stick with a brute force search to ensure partial word hits, which seems to be more important (to me) than multi-word OR scenarios.

ExternalEditor --ArnoPucher, Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:15:48 -0800 reply
The old management text I found on the ExternalEditor page ... short after the header "How to install External Editor support for your wiki"

I corrected the paragraph to the rights you told

stuck --dan mcmullen, Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:36:37 -0800 reply
SimonMichael wrote:

Dan - I've installed your Parents.py changes and the wikipagex main
page view seems to be working now, selectable at UserOptions?, except for the styles. I can't see why not, any help welcome.<<<

looks like it's working as of now? did you fix something? otherwise, how are styles not working for you?

best, dan

ps- Simon: put up a new wikipage.pt at the link on WikipageX that ahould support the PerPageStylesHack. any chance you could put that one in the WikipageX folder so folks can view PerPageStylesHack in all it's glory?

pps- cleaned up WikipageX soon.

stuck --simon, Sat, 08 Nov 2003 12:56:21 -0800 reply
Yes I got the styles "fixed",http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msg20031107000149-0800@zwiki.org .

I've installed your latest wikipagex skin, so PerPageStylesHack is active in that skin. Go to town. :) I assume it brings some security issues ?

Search woes --simon, Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:20:10 -0800 reply
Dean - I meant that (as you've found) search gives different results depending on the site configuration - whether a catalog is in use or not, and what kind of text index it has, and the configuration of that text index.

You can get that partial word matching by installing TextIndexNG2? and enabling left and right wildcards, as I've done here.

Had my first successful use of the new search page summaries today - looking for that regexp viewer link recently mentioned I searched for regular expression and was able to quickly identify the right page. Thanks!

Search woes --simon, Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:35:49 -0800 reply

You can get that partial word matching by installing TextIndexNG2?? and enabling left and right wildcards, as I've done here.

More notes on this: but unlike the old brute force search, you do have to explicitly put * before and after the search word. (Except for page name matching, where I do that automatically).

Also, this seems to not be working. ;)

stuck --dan mcmullen, Sat, 08 Nov 2003 15:22:05 -0800 reply
simon wrote:

I've installed your latest wikipagex skin, so PerPageStylesHack is
active in that skin. Go to town. :) I assume it brings some security issues ?<<<

doesn't everything? :-)

it lets a page insert arbitrary text into the HTML generated by the wiki. (am i correct that at that point it's a page template, so rogue TAL could be effected?) at present, because DTML is (ab)used, if DTML is disabled so is the hack. a cleaner solution could limit the inserted text to actual styles and divs.

what is the risk from allowing this? the benefits seem considerable.

tia, dan

ps- feedback on PerPageStylesHack anyone? the hack? the proto-style?

skin updates --simon, Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:17:49 -0800 reply
Good news for skinners, see CustomizingTheSkin .

i18n and localization to French --NicolasPettiaux, Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:23:14 -0800 reply
On 2002/10/07, Simon Michael wrote

2/ I need a wiki in French. Has zwiki been internationalised ?
This is also in progress. You can use accented characters in pages and page names; internationalisation and localisation of zwiki's UI has been started but still has some way to go, alas.

------

Now, I am ready to help with the translation, but before moving forward, I would like to know

1/ what has been done, both technically (support of accented characters in WikiLinks? for example, eg. if "Des Caract貥s accentu鳢:TheSpecificPage? does work most of the time (not always ! why ?) to generate a correct automatic wiki link, "Des Caract貥s accentu鳢:UnePageSp?馩cique does not work) and in the support to have all documentation and HelpPages? translated

2/ what I could do to help (I can only help with translation and project management activities like coordination ...)

Thanks,

Nicolas Pettiaux (thank you to also send the answer to nicolas.pettiauxATael.be)

i18n and localization to French --SimonMichael, Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:22:32 -0800 reply
Hi Nicolas, welcome back.

There are many things you can do to help. I wrote this not long ago:
Finally, WikiCleanup may seem a little indirect but it's also a high-leverage activity. Better documentation will lead to more users & contributors, and a better understanding of the priorities for improvement. There are a number of specific tasks open on that page. Improving the HowToHelp so that it answers these questions more effectively is perhaps the highest leverage of all.

Both of those pages list some ideas. I can't give you specific instructions for making translations because I don't have them. Organizing our i18n pages would help us figure out where we are and be a great start.

In addition, I recommend picking one small piece at a time and making it happen.

We could start by exploring these linking questions. There are several kinds of links in zwiki which may behave differently. The two examples you give there using "", are structured text hyperlinks. Are those the kind you're interested in ? I have heard STX has internationalisation issues and I think I have also seen howtos and tips for fixing it.

site back up, refactoring --SimonMichael, Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:49:01 -0800 reply
The site was down today.. I was unit-testing some refactored code last night, on the server because it's faster, and forgot that zwiki.org would run it at next restart. It's running here now, a bit sooner than I planned..

This is a fairly big reorganization of the rendering code and page types. Page types have become real objects which encapsulate all the various rendering methods and other things that are specific to a page type (the State pattern). It's a little more complicated than before but I think there will be a good payoff, clarifying the code etc.

Right now each page's page_type attribute gets converted from a string to a page type object. I don't think this will cause much trouble for the skins; it may cause trouble for catalogs, and it may cause pages to consume more memory. (Unless I make these singleton objects shared by all pages; I'm not sure how that would work with zodb persistence.) I could try to maintain the old page_type attribute synced with a new one but that's painful. I might make it a method which returns the type string, this would keep existing catalogs happy at least.

more downtime --SimonMichael, Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:38:35 -0800 reply
Sorry! Working too late. We may find more import errors in the next while, as there has been a zwikigeddon! and a lot of code has moved to different files. pychecker should be one way to prevent this, but it won't run on most of these files.

power corrupts? --dan mcmullen, Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:59:04 -0800 reply
taking the per page styles concept to a new level of abuse:

PerPageStylesHack3

:-)

Where is the Epozeditform sourcecode? --BjoernVDM, Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:48:48 -0800 reply
Hi. I was just wondering, is the code of the Epozeditform PageTemplate reviewable someplace? If someone has it, please post it in ZwikiAndEpoz?. Thank you in advance. Cheers, Bjorn.

power corrupts? --SimonMichael, Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:54:13 -0800 reply
Woah!! Now that I like! :) My wish came true! 8-)

power corrupts? --SimonMichael, Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:58:57 -0800 reply
And alt-e still works. I like it very much! :)

On a related topic - what about the zwiki.org style tweak ? Too pink ?

power corrupts? --DanMcmullen, Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:46:22 -0800 reply
Simon wrote: >>>what about the zwiki.org style tweak ? Too pink ?<<<

it's a little hard to tell with the memory bar on top so bright red, but i wouldn't say too pink. i'd suggest using the same shade for visited and unvisited link text to make the look a bit more uniform. the red on the "shortcut" characters would be less distracting if it weren't so bright, imo.

mailout problem? --DanMcmullen, Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:44:45 -0800 reply
is it just me, or is there a problem w/ mail from zwiki? the mailman archive doesn't show anything new in the last couple of days, but there are new posts here?

power corrupts? --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:10:41 -0800 reply
Not so much too pink, but why pink? (flashbackmares of this ;-)

power corrupts? -- Wed, 12 Nov 2003 02:19:59 -0800 reply

Not so much too pink, but why pink ?

<unwanted ad>Think Pink
ArnoPucher</unwanted ad>

:)

color corrupts? --dan mcmullen, Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:44:54 -0800 reply
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org wrote:

>>Not so much too pink, but why pink ? > Think Pink <<<

probably any color by itself on a white background won't please everyone. then there's the typical saturated browser default link colors, that could be who knows what, scattered all over the visual space creating disorder. :-)

fwiw, i put together a couple of pages using WikipageX and per page styles to undo most of the WikipageX colors & tweeks, so they look pretty much like the default skin. since most of the color formatting is in the page, it's possible to tweek one or the other and compare looks using variations on the default skin (kind of). anyway, here are the two test pages:

DMcmZWikiA

DMcmZWikiB

right now DMcmZWikiA is as close to the default as possible. DMcmZWikiB is the current default with some color changes. (mainly changing the link colors and changing the background to just off white so it's not as stark a contrast with the pink highlighting.)

include and exclude page parts --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:55:19 -0800 reply
page parts, content parts.

Background: I had hide page parts by passing in a parameter, such as "bare=1". This works for the "/print" (see ZwikiPrinting) as well as including the page in another page: dtml-var "thepagesid(bare=1)"

For a page I can extract the document, subtopics, and comments, but how, in a http:...pageid/print scenario, would I specify paremeters to subdue, any one of those? I believe the current members for those sections serve to extract those sections for including in other pages, but I can't see how to excluse them for the /print scenario.

anti-color? --dan mcmullen, Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:48:41 -0800 reply
for those who don't like color:

PerPageStylesHack4

now that (almost) all that distracting color is gone, perhaps some of you will be intriqued with the possibilities suggested by the non-scrolling mockup down at the bottom-right. mini-views of wiki pages as dynamic context anyone?

enjoy! dan

ps- since there seemed to be some mailout glitches around then, color-philes who missed it might also want to check out:

PerPageStylesHack3

Can not submit bug through IssueTracker --La Monte H.P. Yarroll, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:03:06 -0800 reply
I get the attached error when attempting to submit a bug through the error tracker. I've set my User name to "piggy" and Email address to "piggy@timesys.com" via preferences.

BTW, here is the bug I was trying to submit:

Description: RemoteWikiLinks does not update backlinks. Category: general Severity: minor Status: open Details: This page: DemonstrateRemoteWikiBacklinksBug refers to an instance of RemoteWikiLinks via WikiWikiWeb, but it does not show up in the backlinks page for WikiWikiWeb.

Can not submit bug through IssueTracker --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:21:39 -0800 reply
That's an interesting case. The Demonstrate.. page references, but doesn't link to, the WikiWikiWeb page.

In an older version of Zwiki backlinks were basically "any page that has this pages id in the text", which overlooked freeform links and caught many non-links (including remotewikilink references.) such as Zwiki when not linked as ZWiki.

I think the catalog also skips over hyperlinks, so I wouldn't be surprised if http://non.WikiWikiWeb.com and WikiWikiWeb were overlooked by the new backlinks.

Property change bug --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:25:52 -0800 reply
Looks like there's an issue in creating/editing a page that sets properties.

This may be what's affecting adding an issue, and editing a page:

 Module Products.ZWiki.Tracker, line 217, in createIssue 
Module Products.ZWiki, line 171, in manage_changeProperties 
Module OFS.PropertyManager, line 285, in manage_changeProperties 

Property change bug --dan mcmullen, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:00:39 -0800 reply
DeanGoodmanson wrote:>>> Looks like there's an issue in creating/editing a page that sets

properties.

This may be what's affecting adding an issue, and editing a page:: Module OFS.PropertyManager?, line 285, in manage_changeProperties <<<

this is presently reproducable for me if i try to submit an edit of page PerPageStylesHack4g.

wiki font revelations --dan mcmullen, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:59:41 -0800 reply
hello all! just a note to share a couple of recent small a-ha!s fwiw:

enjoy! DanMcmullen

fun method to reveal page text --dan mcmullen, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:14:48 -0800 reply
in atonement for absent consumer safety warnings the last time i mentioned PerPageStylesHack3 (warning!: a "CompletelyDifferent?" Zwiki page! :-):

i came up with a new-to-me way of hiding and revealing page text. because i didn't like the appearance of the original "make the text small" method, i tried "make the text big".

not only does that hide the text better, but the effect of hugely rendered initial words shrinking down to reveal the entire text is quite nice, imo. i do that using the Ctrl+"-" keys (or Shift+Mousewheel) in mozilla.

anyway, you might want to check out:

PerPageStylesHack3 (warning!: a "CompletelyDifferent?" Zwiki page! :-)

enjoy! DanMcmullen

ps- as for the particular text in question: you probably had to have been there. :-)

fun method to reveal page text --DeanG, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:32:46 -0800 reply
I'm lost, even after shrinking text. Also, left a note on your personal page.

fun method to reveal page text --DanMcmullen, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:36:19 -0800 reply
what browser you using Dean? w/ winmozilla 1.4, the Ctrl-"-" key combo shrinks the size of the displayed text. do that enough times and the huge text on PPSHack3? become small enough to be seen in the window. that doesn't work for you?

fun method to reveal page text --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:46:03 -0800 reply
browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 Firebird/0.7

The mouse reducer only went so far, then the ctrl- did get it small enough.

BTW, that method of hiding/revealing page text doesn't work for my wanting to use portions of a page in other pages.

fun method to reveal page text --dan mcmullen, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:23:28 -0800 reply
DeanGoodmanson wrote:

The mouse reducer only went so far, then the ctrl- did get it small
enough.<<<

yup. i have to use ctrl- also. figured some browsers might not be limited that way.

BTW, that method of hiding/revealing page text doesn't work for my
wanting to use portions of a page in other pages.<<<

nope. it's just artsy and fun. :-)

for using portions of text in a page, did you note Simon's mention of this technique recently:

  <style tal:content=
    "python:here.text()[
        here.text().find( '<!--beginstyle-->' )
      : here.text().find( '<!--endstyle-->' )
      ]" />

you might want to use something TALish? like:

  ... find( '<zwiki:magic id="fooSection_begin" />' )
  ... find( '<zwiki:magic id="fooSection_end"  ...

and/or a css based approach would let you do some "display:none" tricks:

  ... find( '<div id="magicId"' )
  ... find( '</div> <!--magicId-->' ) ...

enjoy! dan

fun method to reveal page text --DeanG, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:49:08 -0800 reply
Thanks! Sometime on IRC I'd like to chat w/ you on how I'd like to slice&dice pages. Thinking of seperating content/presentination... "Display" and an "Archive" page. Simple scenario is that GD is just a Presentation/Display page, while all comments are posted to an Archive page. Catch 1: Instructoins on GD page which page to put it's comments on, and which page to get it's content, then which page to get "skin". Catch 1.5: User experience when viewing archive page. Catch 2: Archive page needs to be Date friendly: Per month, etc. Catch 3: Details. ;-)

Benefits: More permalink friendly, Multiple presentation pages per archive/content pages.

Dream: WikiBlog? (page/month) with templating and comment support.

WikiBlog?'n --dan mcmullen, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:17:52 -0800 reply
DeanG wrote:>>> Dream: WikiBlog? (page/month) with templating and comment support.<<

if WikiBlog?'s are your dream, consider this possibility:

a stripped down version of the IssueTracker page has the core functionality of a really nice blog facility. blog items would by submitted by comment/email to the parent CollectorPage?. much like tracker, CollectorPage?'s will create a new subpage for each item submitted, which creates a separate comment space per item in the item's subpage. viewing a CollectorPage? would give you a "top 10" like tracker, or "last month" or however you'd like to see your CollectionPages? summarized. some (css?) convention in the submitted items could flag the teaser line and summary paragraphs for the CollectionPage? to display.

all this looks pretty much like taking stuff out of IssueTracker? who could do that fastest? :-)

two fixes --SimonMichael, Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:43:09 -0800 reply
I'm behind, couldn't read mail the last couple of days.. but I've checked in/uploaded fixes for issue creation and ZwikiBlog. Have a good weekend, all.

Re: mailout glitches? --Simon Michael, Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:03:41 -0800 reply

just fyi: i haven't received the last couple of GeneralDiscussion comments by email. some other page comments i'm subscribed to also haven't appeared in the last couple of days.

I'm hoping this has "gone away". If you can reproduce it again, please file an issue and I'll investigate.

two fixes --dan mcmullen, Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:12:31 -0800 reply
SimonMichael wrote:>>> I'm behind, couldn't read mail the last couple of days.. but I've

checked in/uploaded fixes for issue creation and ZwikiBlog. <<<

still can't submit an edit on PerPageStylesHack4g due to "Module OFS.PropertyManager?, line 285, in manage_changeProperties: BadRequest?".

power corrupts? --Simon Michael, Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:14:54 -0800 reply
Why pink.. I was a little tired of the gray default and feel it might be time for Zwiki to have a slightly more recognizable/interesting default. So when you come to a zwiki page you know immediately what it is and (ideally) get a happy feeling :). Eg mailman has it's ugly but reassuring blue. Plone has blue/green/grey, etc. I tried for some yellow shades but couldn't easily get good ones. Pink was next. Green could also be tried. It's perhaps a bit garish.. on the other hand it does separate itself from the main page content very well.

I don't think removing the colour distinction of visited links is a good idea. To me that almost always carries a subliminal message: this site's author values form over function and can't be trusted to take care of me ergonomically.

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under Plone --Simon Michael, Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:22:55 -0800 reply

During an IRC-discussion with Simon, he suspected that the cause of the problem may be the fact, that I had moved my installation from one

well no.. I agreed that it was worth ruling that out. We have narrowed this down but I am presently stumped on it. I'd like to take another crack at it on IRC one of these days.

two fixes --Simon Michael, Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:31:40 -0800 reply
Hmm, it still seems to happen sometimes depending on the subtopics display setting. I'm out of time, sorry!

power corrupts? --dan mcmullen, Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:42:43 -0800 reply
Simon Michael wrote:>>> I don't think removing the colour distinction of visited links is a

good idea. To me that almost always carries a subliminal message: this site's author values form over function and can't be trusted to take care of me ergonomically.<<<

hmmm. i guess i'm in the form is function camp here. the overall visual feel of a page is part of a page's function: to communicate effectively. the ergonomics of laying out a page in an engaging and effective way must be balanced with other functions.

personally, i find the visited/unvisited link distinction of little utility. the benefit of link colors that sit well in the page while still making the link obvious seem worth the tradeoff from eliminating it. my hope is that overall functionality is enhanced.

imo, dan

power corrupts? --DeanGoodmanson, Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:36:09 -0800 reply
Distinction: +1. I recal the pink/green of an old version. I like that green...perhaps it's the "green bar" unit testing affect.

Re the "visited" link color distinction. I find it very helpful for Hansel and Gretel "cookie crumbs" when burrowing through a wiki.

skin tweaks --simon, Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:29:07 -0800 reply
Let's try without the memory usage bar and access key highlights, and with a simpler page management panel. Also lose the nav links in full mode (for a little more speed with this site), and make the contents link more important.

comment window -- Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:36:55 -0800 reply
Where did the comment window on the FrontPage. The same thing happened to my instance of Zwiki at Zettai.Net. Has there been a version change which makes "no" comment window the default. JohnDeBruyn (November 15, 2003)

comment window --Simon Michael, Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:24:54 -0800 reply
John, the comment form will not appear if you don't have Zwiki: Add comments permission on that page.

downtime --SimonMichael, Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:50:56 -0800 reply
Sorry about the downtime earlier.. I am trying to restore those page creation times. I got confused while switching Data.fs's around and trying to connect. There are some gotchas with this in a ZEO setup, easy enough once you understand. The main thing is to give the storage server a few minutes to rebuild Data.fs.index at startup. Unfortunately the backup was not old enough, I need to ask for another.

link colors & design (was: power corrupts?) --dan mcmullen, Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:27:17 -0800 reply
DeanGoodmanson wrote:>>>

Re the "visited" link color distinction. I find it very helpful for Hansel and Gretel "cookie crumbs" when burrowing through a wiki.<<<

so, for some folks "visited-color" link have positive utility and for others it is negative. "this is a job for UserOptionMan?!" :-) i will be implementing some sort of option for this in the WikipageX work.

it intrigues me that there are such different yet valid preference here. i wonder if it has to do with differing design orientations? my (perhaps overbroad) preference for "same-color" links is based on one of my key wiki design principles: content comes first; navigation and management are secondary. i want a page reader to focus first on the page content and to have minimal distractions from that focus. keeping "noise", useless information, out of the content area is one important aspect of this. so i try to find subtle link colors which blend well with the page; a gentle reminder of the link's presence and function.

i do see that there are ways in which link color can be significantly useful. these ways seem dependant on the current task. reading to integrate the meaning of text is quite different from surfing looking for structure and exploring, and from scanning a list of links. perhaps default links colors should be "visited-color" or "same-color" depending on the most likely task in a particular context.

at present, the obvious contexts are the content area, the link bars, the page header and the edit forms (for instance.) is there a difference in the utility of link coloring strategies in these different contexts?

i do ramble... :-)

what are other folk's key principles for wiki user interface design?

enjoy! dan.

Re: comment/rename/reparent oddities --dan mcmullen, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:54:29 -0800 reply
Simon wrote>>> (moving this thread to GeneralDiscussion)

dan mcmullen wrote:

> i agree for update links. however, leaving a placeholder is something i rarely do...

I do it rarely also. So can we remove it and let people do that manually ?<<<

that works. so update links will be enabled and leave placeholder disabled by default?

(ps- Simon's post didn't make it to GenDis? or email for me)

placeholder --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:11:05 -0800 reply
No concerns over moving it here.

We may want to consider working the items in recycle_bin into the RecentChanges? list, with a "Deleted" marker (similar to New). Although that may merit restricting editing/comments on the recycle_bin folder.

placeholder --dan mcmullen, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:31:10 -0800 reply
hmmm. now i'm wondering: placeholders keep external links pointing at a page name from getting broken whan a page is renamed. will making this a manual operation discourage folks from taking this into account? i can imagine situations where there are lots of external links into a wiki.

wiki's for surveys --DeanG, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:41:49 -0800 reply
Interesting stuff, more of a Friday link, but .. http://denham.typepad.com/km/2003/11/wiki_km_survey.html

Zwiki test --DeanG, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:42:43 -0800 reply

there are a couple of open questions

Can you disclose the outstanding questions?

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under --Phil Hardaker, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:54:25 -0800 reply
For a little more insight, I had an identical problem when trying to create an AllPages page on my new install, though my scenario is different. (I believe this thread started with "Making AllPages work under Plone" on GeneralDiscussion200310.) Also I have a workaround.

My zope host is zettai.net (highly recommended) and yesterday I simple added a zwiki product to a zope folder. I don't have plone installed here. So, just a basic zope site with zwiki. I created an AllPages page the wiki way, by first entering the name in an edit box, then clicking on the link to create it. I copied what I found inside the AllPages edit box at zwiki.org. Zope complained about REQUEST.set, and just as Andreas experienced when troubleshooting, displaying the REQUEST object only returns an empty string when inside the second dtml-in tags, but displays fine outside those tags.

The condition acts like the REQUEST object is being clobbered inside that dtml-in tag. I don't know why. My workaround (or hack if you like) is to set REQ=REQUEST in the first dtml-let statement, and replace refereces to REQUEST with REQ in the code.

Zwiki test at the Home Depot -- Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:58:10 -0800 reply
Hello again Simon, et al! You might remember my Letter where I made the case for dropping the GPL and putting Zwiki in the public domain. I am sorry to report that I haven't had as much success as I hoped in securing funding to support Zwiki development in the public domain or to entice the release of the software into the public domain. BUT......

I work for the Home Depot and have had some success recently in evagelizing wiki technology for use on our company's Intranet. For at least the next four months, I am going to run a project to set-up and test a wiki to connect the divisional buying office in Orange, CA (the merchandisers who deal with regional suppliers) with the division's 200+ stores. Not only am I sure it is going to be a big success, I hope to open some minds at the Home Depot about the benefits of open source technology (we use none).

I am most familiar with Zwiki, but will also evaluate Twiki and maybe a couple more options.

Because of its Python/Zope underpinnings I prefer Zwiki, but there are a couple of open questions where other, perhaps proprietary (yikes!) solutions might do better:

  1. Locking. I have been using a recent version of Zwiki and have noticed it doesn't do anything to lock a page or even warn when a page is being edited. Simon, can you give me an update on this?
  2. WYSIWYG. For our internal uses we want it be as easy to use as possible and don't care about current browser compatibility (we use IE) or code readability. I saw the Epoz test page on zwiki.org which seemed to be working. Are there any problems with using Epoz Epoz? I looked at Epoz' instructions, but I am going to need some hand-holding or more step-by-step instructions or automated setup to get it working I think. Could we incorporate htmlArea? Is one better than the other?

Should Zwiki prove itself, I would expect the Home Depot to donate money to support continued development (directly or indirectly) of a product they are using. I am confident I could convince them to do so, but if not I would quit the company over it.

I look forward to hearing from you! Nate Johnson

Nate_Johnson@homedepot.com n_johnson@yahoo.com 858-824-9003 520-405-9286

Home Depot -- Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:39:04 -0800 reply
Crikey, Nate, high stakes, eh? If Zwiki is good enough the company I work for will donate or I'll quit?

link colors & design --Simon Michael, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:21 -0800 reply
Re hyperlink colors - well this debate is almost as old as the web.. :) I do agree there are times to break every rule, but I'm in the camp that feels this is among the core elements of that standard UI that worked so well, which we call "the web". When you look at the web as a whole, not just the needs of one site, I think deviating from that standard has a cost. That's why I'll keep some distinction in the default skin for now. The great thing is, it's becoming as easy as pie to fix it if you choose - drop in a stylesheet. :)

placeholder --Simon Michael, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:06:54 -0800 reply
Yes, that's the reason for it. Although, in a wiki with standard_error_message set up (not in plone) those external links will at least see a search button.

Ideally I'd like to just pick one or the other default behaviour and remove the option. What if we make the placeholder, but add "You can delete this page if it's not needed" to it's text. And those power admins who don't want them can just change that hidden field in the wikipage template.

wiki's for surveys --Simon Michael, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:08:32 -0800 reply
I'd very much like us to get simple, attractive polls going here, wiki-based or not. As a poor man's surveying tool. I think we could learn a lot.

HorizontalHeadersMenu? -- Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:30:21 -0800 reply
One of the new skins has HorizontalHeadersMenu?. How has this been done?

comment window plus edit and subscribe -- Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:04:17 -0800 reply
Thanks, and now: How can I add edit and subscribe links to the right just above the comment window through out an instance of Zwiki? That will save me rewriting the edit and subscribe instructions that I have written out on some many pages of that particular instance of Zwiki. J.

comment window plus edit and subscribe -- Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:04:33 -0800 reply
Thanks, and now: How can I add edit and subscribe links to the right just above the comment window through out an instance of Zwiki? That will save me rewriting the edit and subscribe instructions that I have written out on some many pages of that particular instance of Zwiki. J.

comment window plus edit and subscribe -- Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:04:49 -0800 reply
Thanks, and now: How can I add edit and subscribe links to the right just above the comment window through out an instance of Zwiki? That will save me rewriting the edit and subscribe instructions that I have written out on some many pages of that particular instance of Zwiki. J.

Possible to track users by contributions --BjoernVDM, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:33:02 -0800 reply
Hi, I know this goes against the Wiki spirit in a way, but, is it (relatively easily) possible to track users by contribution-volume, like with StatCVS? in CVS projects? Something along the lines of a top-ten of most active wiki-contributors, by created pages, changed/added lines? Has anybody implemented something like this, and what would that feature sensibly be called? Cheers, BjoernVDM

HorizontalHeadersMenu? --dan mcmullen, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:55:47 -0800 reply
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org wrote:

One of the new skins has HorizontalHeadersMenu?. How has this been
done?<<<

it's part of the prototype WikipageX skin, which adds a routine to Parents.py to generate a page hierarchy in a dictionary structure (instead of literal html). wikipage_macros.pt (was metal.pt) uses TAL to invoke that routine and has a couple of METAL macros which produce either the traditional or horizontal displays.

Possible to track users by contributions --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:37:47 -0800 reply
I don't know, but you could link it at least on WikiStats.

What might a contribution be ? Here are some possibilities -

It's not trivial to get accurate statistics on these things right now. Perhaps the simplest way would be to analyse the web server logs - look for "/edit", "/comment" etc. The logs won't show zwiki's username cookie, but will show IP address and authenticated username, so you could get a good estimate of all of these things.

comment window plus edit and subscribe --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:44:48 -0800 reply
You'll have to customize the skin to get back that old layout. See CustomizingTheSkin ; briefly, you'd create a wikipage page template in the folder, and fill it with the contents of skins/default/wikipage.pt from an older release of Zwiki (0.23 or so ?), which you can download from http://zwiki.org/releases or find in CVSRepository.

Or, it should be possible to do this in a cleaner way by using the latest wikipage template, but inserting an extra call to the "linkpanel" macro, as at the top of the page. See the div id="linkpanel" section.

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:06 -0800 reply
Phil, thanks very much for the extra data on this problem, and the workaround. We must get to the bottom of this. DTML has a reputation for being surprising and chaotic in this way, but to date I've always been able to find the logical explanation for why it was doing what it was doing.

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:15 -0800 reply
PS remind me - you're not both in a CMF/plone site are you ?

Should we take this discussion to an issue page ?

link colors & design --dan mcmullen, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:05:43 -0800 reply
want to be clear that i haven't intended changes in Zwiki's default visited-color links. i just hoped to communicate my rational for not using that scheme in the prototype skins i've been posting.

there may be creative middle ground in this debate as well. if you've not lost interest yet,

PerPageStylesHack5

has visited-link marking in a subtle way. too subtle?

enjoy! /dan

Zwiki test at the Home Depot --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:24:44 -0800 reply
Hi Nate, welcome back.

least the next four months, I am going to run a project to set-up and test a wiki to connect the divisional buying office in Orange, CA (the merchandisers who deal with regional suppliers) with the division's 200+ stores. Not only am I sure it is going to be a big success, I hope to open some minds at the Home Depot about the benefits of open source technology (we use none).

That's great, good luck and let me know if I can help. I'm in LA. Note introducing new technologies can be tricky - they don't always get adopted the way you expect. You may know this already.

Zwiki features and funding - it would certainly be great to get some direct funding for zwiki development. This is a good way to get features that you want, quickly. Normally those features will also become part of the standard product - where they'll get used and further improved - if they can be integrated harmoniously.

Don't quit just yet though, at least not only on this account :) Here's a little more detail on the product as it exists right now.

1. Locking. I have been using a recent version of Zwiki and have noticed it doesn't do anything to lock a page or even warn when a page is being edited. Simon, can you give me an update on this?

Zwiki prevents data loss due to simultaneous edits, throwing up a warning when the second person tries to save. It doesn't warn you earlier - can't, really. Normally when someone else is active on a page you'll see a very recent last edited timestamp, and you'll be forewarned. What it could do, and doesn't, is assist the second editor in merging their edits, instead of just telling them to go back and start again. I believe this situation happens rarely on most sites, though.

The above applies to web edits, FTP edits, and probably epoz edits. If you edit via webDAV or ExternalEditor (and the user's EE configuration file enables locking), a stronger form of locking is done: while someone is editing the page, it is locked and noone else is allowed to start an edit. An enhancement here would be to display a padlock on the page when this kind of edit is in progress.

seemed to be working. Are there any problems with using Epoz

No, it just needs development to work out the details and polish it for users. I think it will work best with HTML-only pages (plus wiki links, probably), rather than StructuredText pages. I don't know htmlarea, but I'm sure I could easily support that or other IE-specific tools you might want; those things would have to be funded.

Does this answer your Zwiki questions ?

Personally I break out in hives when I see the Twiki interface, but I know lots of people use it and I'm sure it does some cool stuff that we don't do, as vice-versa.

link colors & design --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:29:01 -0800 reply
Oh, my mistake - I thought you were advocating that. You did communicate your rationale clearly, I meant to do the same (not to paint you as an evil threat to the Web's Very Existence.. :)

Zwiki test at the Home Depot --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:34:49 -0800 reply

Normally when someone else is active on a page you'll see a very recent last edited timestamp

Perhaps we should put this on the edit form?

aside: I'd prefer to see epoz comments over full page edits. HTML comments are easier to swallow than HTML pages.

twiki ui hives. :-> I got rather lost when finaly going to that survey site last night (although I like pre-defined page "templates"), odd link, sorry.

link colors & design --dan mcmullen, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:01:12 -0800 reply
Simon Michael wrote:>>> Oh, my mistake - I thought you were advocating that. You did

communicate your rationale clearly, I meant to do the same (not to paint you as an evil threat to the Web's Very Existence.. :)<<<

oh good! i was worried there for a nanosecond. :-)

Epoz --Samotnik, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:23:34 -0800 reply
For Your (all) information: There was a lot of damage when my test users employed Epoz, some versions ago. There are two disadvantages of the editor. First is that it is insensitive for the format already existing in particular page. So, if anybody using Epoz comes to editing a page written in STX, all previous formatting is damaged.

Besides, Epoz switches off any other formats. So it is impossible to come back to STX or other format after using the editor.

To be clear, we have tested Epoz about 3 moths ago. Maybe, these disadvantages are eliminated now?

Epoz --dan mcmullen, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:54:50 -0800 reply
{can't... stop... myself...}

dare i suggest that wysiwyg is miguided in a wiki?

{ducks}

:-)

Epoz --DeanG, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:10:16 -0800 reply

wysiwyg misguided

No, that's the purpose of markup. When the WYSIWYG tool output deviates from output in such a way that comparing the two is not intuitive, then the markup tool and/or markup language is misguided.

Epoz --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:23:59 -0800 reply
Epoz and the other wysiwyg editors don't have a clue about anything other than HTML, so yes they'll mess up existing STX content. They are best used on pages with the HTML page type.

Epoz support is definitely in prototype stage, not ready-for-users. I'll gladly accept patches or funding, otherwise it will happen when I can get to it.

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under Plone -- Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:25:34 -0800 reply

(I believe this thread started with "Making AllPages work under Plone" on GeneralDiscussion200310.)

That's right.

I don't have plone installed here. So, just a basic zope site with zwiki. [...] I copied what I found inside the AllPages edit box at zwiki.org. Zope complained about REQUEST.set, and just as Andreas experienced when troubleshooting, displaying the REQUEST object only returns an empty string when inside the second dtml-in tags, but displays fine outside those tags.

That is exactly the same problem as mine. But unlike Phil, I only face this problem in Wikis integrated into Plone, whereas the code for AllPages does fine in plain Wikis on the same ZOPE server.

The condition acts like the REQUEST object is being clobbered inside that dtml-in tag.

I second this. REQUEST is okay outside the dtml-in loop, but any access to REQUEST inside the loop raises an error and dtml-var REQUEST results in '< Special Object Used to Force Acquisition>'.

I don't know why. My workaround (or hack if you like) is to set REQ=REQUEST in the first dtml-let statement, and replace refereces to REQUEST with REQ in the code.

Thanks a lot! This solved the problem for me, too. While somehow REQUEST gets screwed up, the "self-made alias" REQ works fine.

-- Andreas

Epoz --BjoernVDM, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:36:56 -0800 reply

wysiwyg misguided

hm. But wouldnԴ you agree itԳ the future...do you expect to see non-wysiwig wikis in one,two,three years? Current technical problems are a different matter, of course.

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under --simon, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:36 -0800 reply
So Andreas sees it only in plone, Phil sees it in a plain zwiki. Also what versions of Zope are you both using ?

non-WYSIWYG future? (was: Epoz) --dan mcmullen, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:03:09 -0800 reply
BjoernVDM wrote:>>>do you expect to see

non-wysiwig wikis in one,two,three years?<<<

i am beginning to believe that non-WYSIWYG may be the future, or a future for some folks. for example, i'm pretty sure i can sit down and teach my dad enough WWML/STX in an hour to make him able to contribute effectively to a wiki community. (i do think WWML/STX could use some work on consistency to make this possible.)

no WYSIWYG user interface i'm aware of could do this same trick in less than days. and you don't want to see what awful, convoluted tricks my dad uses to make even a simple word processor approximate the pages he's trying to create. enough to drive a poor WYSIWYG editor do strange things to HTML i bet, and probably frustrate my dad no end. :-)

i am particularly interested in using wikis to enable tech amateurs to collaborate via the web. i'm guessing the quickest way to do that is using a non-WYSIWYG wiki.

i'd be very interested in other perspectives on this.

enjoy! /dan

non-WYSIWYG future? (was: Epoz) --Bjorn van der Meer, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:41:46 -0800 reply
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:03:33 -0800 zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org (dan mcmullen) wrote:

BjoernVDM wrote:>>>do you expect to see > non-wysiwig wikis in one,two,three years?<<< =20 no WYSIWYG user interface i'm aware of could do this same trick in less than days. and you don't want to see what awful, convoluted tricks my dad uses to make even a simple word processor approximate the pages he's trying to create. enough to drive a poor WYSIWYG editor do strange things to HTML i bet, and probably frustrate my dad no end. :-) =20 i am particularly interested in using wikis to enable tech amateurs to collaborate via the web. i'm guessing the quickest way to do that is using a non-WYSIWYG wiki. =20

Hi Dan...I=B4d think a working WYSIWIG (talking text processing here) would= be the quick way for the amateur. If I look at Epoz or HTMLArea? I am sure = that every person that ever used Word can handle it.

And kind of hand-made markup is a higher adoption barrier, IMHO.

As I said, I am well aware of technical problems, but I still ...do I expec= t to see non-WYSIWYG wikis in three, or even two years? No.

non-WYSIWYG future? (was: Epoz) --dan mcmullen, Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:01:19 -0800 reply
Bjorn van der Meer wrote: >>> every person that ever used Word can handle [WYSIWYG]?.<<<

i'm aiming (quite a bit?) lower than that. :-)

>And kind of hand-made markup is a higher adoption barrier, IMHO.<<<

for every type of potential user?

enjoy! /dan

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under Plone -- Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:02:23 -0800 reply

Also what versions of Zope are you both using ?

I use Zope 2.6.1, CMF 1.3.1, Plone 1.0.5, and ZWiki 0.24. The error can also be reproduced with Zope 2.6.2, CMF 1.3.3, and the same Plone and ZWiki versions as before.

-- Andreas

standard_error_message and authentication -- Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:50:07 -0800 reply
Hello,

my users complained about a nonworking feature of IssuesTracker? (navigation between issues via "<< ^^ >>") on our project site with restricted access rights. The feature relies on standard_error_message to do a fuzzy search for the requested page.

standard_error_message uses protected methods to do the fuzzy search. Unfortunately, ZOPE seems to execute standard_error_message with AUTHENTICATED_USER == "Anonymous User", no matter if the user is already authenticated or even has assigned roles such as Owner or Manager. Therefore, standard_error_message (and in the end the navigation in the IssueTracker) is only working if anonymous users have the "View" right.

Because standard_error_message calls pageWithFuzzyName on the SearchPage?, I tried to grant "View" for "Anonymous" only for this page. But I had to grant this right for the whole Wiki in order for the feature to work correctly.

Okay. There we are:

-- Andreas

standard_error_message and authentication --Simon Michael, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:14:35 -0800 reply
Hi Andreas, thanks for this analysis. Good to hear people actually use those links, too. Do they care about how the links are aware of the current search/filter results set ? If not, you could perhaps enable show_navlinks and use those next/prev links instead..

* Can I prevent ZOPE from "forgetting" the authenticated user while executing standard_error_message?

It seems to me that standard_error_message must be anonymous viewable. If you restrict it in the same way as the pages (only authenticated can view) Zope should be forced to use the authentication credentials and s_e_m should be able to do it's thing. That's how I'd expect it to work anyway.

* Why is it not sufficient to grant the right to "View" only for the SearchPage?, where pageWithFuzzyName is called? Why do I have to grant the right for the whole Wiki?

I can't think why. Maybe VerboseSecurity? could help you pinpoint this.

quick comments --simon, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:33:40 -0800 reply
Did you all notice quicker comments on big pages ?

I figured out that if a chunk of structured text begins at column 0, you can basically format it correctly independent the rest of the page. So for comments, where we used to reformat the whole page, we now just format the comment and append that to the prerendered data we already have. This makes a big difference on a big page.

It seems as if we should be able to use this to speed up general edits as well - split up the structured text into independent chunks beginning in column 0, and re-format only the ones where changes have been made. Anyone looking for a chance to write some clever code ?

This was inspired by the very clever nxml mode of James Clark, particularly the comments at the top of the main source file. I bet we could do more speedups in that vein. nxml-mode is a real-time-validating html/xml mode, highly recommended for emacs users.

RecentChanges?, SearchPage? &*(E$@! --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:00:19 -0800 reply
RecentChanges? and SearchPage? have been renamed to *Disabled. My renaming attempt has taken awhile, and back/parent links might still be amiss.

rename monitoring --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:03:19 -0800 reply
What would you think of a rename function changing the modified date, and adding a log message of "renamed from ..." ? I'd like these to show up in the RecentChanges?, or perhaps a RecentAdminChanges? which also show Deletes and Reparenting.

Would the page text have to be modified for this?

non-WYSIWYG future? (was: Epoz) -- Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:36:20 -0800 reply
You might find http://www.editme.com interesting.

RecentChanges?, SearchPage? &*(E$@! --Simon Michael, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:09:54 -0800 reply

RecentChanges? and SearchPage? have been renamed to *Disabled. My

That was me. I'm working on the skin-based versions of these, making the nav links point there when pages don't exist, and making them the default in a new wiki! (Cf ChangeLog?, SimonsPlan2004). I'm going to convert them to page templates which include the necessary dtml. Then maybe all of these should use a macro for their header - maybe even the standard page header.

rename monitoring --Simon Michael, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:12:24 -0800 reply

What would you think of a rename function changing the modified date, and adding a log message of "renamed from ..." ? I'd like these to

I think that sounds good. I think I made it not do that for some reason. Can you come up with a patch ? Editing.py -> rename()

RecentChanges?, SearchPage? --DeanG, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:34:30 -0800 reply
Heh. Sorry about that! Minor notes... What's "Cf" short for? , and although you have an inital explanation at SimonsPlan2004, the funded work item seems to be a heading for the remaining stuff. I'll look into the patch.

RecentChanges?, SearchPage? --SimonMichael, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:41:31 -0800 reply
That's just a generic item indicating that anything funded usually gets first priority.

Cf is cross reference, see also.

SVGWiki? --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:24:00 -0800 reply
Article on SVGWiki? over at OReillyNetwork?. link

standard_error_message and authentication -- Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:28:28 -0800 reply

Do they care about how the links are aware of the current search/filter results set?

Hmm. :-) This sounds like a nice feature in order to quickly scan through the details of a particular set of issues. But I don't think this is implemented in 0.24. The code in Tracker.py for the issue detail page for the "<< ^^ >>"-navigation ignores the filter set - as you also can see on your own tracker at zwiki.org. It just increases or decreases the issue number.

Maybe this feature will come with 0.25? I already saw, that you did lots of changes to the IssueTracker code. Unfortunately, the 0.25 from CVS raised an error while creating new Wikis and I had to revert to the stable 0.24.

* Can I prevent ZOPE from "forgetting" the authenticated user while executing standard_error_message?

It seems to me that standard_error_message must be anonymous viewable. If you restrict it in the same way as the pages (only authenticated can view) Zope should be forced to use the authentication credentials and s_e_m should be able to do it's thing. That's how I'd expect it to work anyway.

As far as I have seen, this is not the case. s_e_m is always executed as anonymous.

* Why is it not sufficient to grant the right to "View" only for the SearchPage?, where pageWithFuzzyName is called? Why do I have to grant the right for the whole Wiki?

I can't think why. Maybe VerboseSecurity?? could help you pinpoint this.

Hmm. I tried this products, but it doesn't add much useful information to find the cause for this behaviour.

As a solution / workaround, I now have granted anonymous the "View" right for the Wiki. I don't think, this is a big problem, because additional rights are required to actually render a page. In addition, the contents of the Wiki - although not public - are not top secret.

-- Andreas

standard_error_message and authentication --Simon Michael, Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:05:07 -0800 reply
zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org wrote:

through the details of a particular set of issues. But I don't think this is implemented in 0.24. The code in Tracker.py for the issue

Ack you're right. I could have sworn it did that at one point.

As far as I have seen, this is not the case. s_e_m is always executed as anonymous.

I believe you.. so in other words if you anonymously get the s_e_m directly with curl, you see an auth error - yet when zope uses s_e_m to handle a bad url, it seems to have anonymous privileges.

Then, here's another idea - I also see this kind of thing when I forget to pass REQUEST in to some method. We are calling several methods here and not passing REQUEST, though none of them seem to have an obvious need for it.

This is where I would expect VerboseSecurity? to help. By enabling it, fully - configure PYTHON_SECURITY_POLICY, enable auth error logging and event log copies in /error_log, heck running zope in debug mode if needed (shouldn't be) and staring at it very hard, you should be able to see exactly which method it's failing at. Unless I'm misremembering.

Zwiki test at the Home Depot -- Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:46:14 -0800 reply
"Zwiki prevents data loss due to simultaneous edits, throwing up a warning when the second person tries to save."

-uh, not that I saw. We tested it about three times on the telephone. It went like: You open a page. Now I open the same page and edit it and save. You (still having it open) finish your edits and save. Your changes just overwrote mine and I had no idea that my edits were lost and you had no idea that you just stomped on them. I think it was version .22 but my 8 year-old 4GB hard drive is finally dying and I am trying to recover the Data.fs file right now so I can't recreate that behavior at the moment. Any hints at putting Zope and Zwiki back together? I assume installing the same setup and copying in the Data.fs file will do the trick?

Network and CPU usage notwithstanding, it seems like the ideal solution would be to transmit wiki edits as they happen rather than waiting until you are finished editing and sending the entire page. This would be akin to locking on a character, word or line basis. Then you could see the words or even the keystrokes of anyone else editing the page while you were looking at it, directly avoiding any conflict. This would require a browser plug-in or Java applet, right? Combined with a WYSIWYG editor, this gives us a "shared whiteboard" effect that I think would make wiki's a lot easier for people to understand.

The WYSIWYG discussion is very interesting. I really think that anything we can do to make the wiki more accessible to more people overrides every other concern. The value is exponentially higher the more people participate. It is kind of like having a big, heavy high tech camera for personal photos. Despite its technical superiority, its usability kills it. In the end, a small point and shoot does a better job because it is so much more likely to be used when it counts (it is in your pocket).

If my test of Zwiki is well received and the Home Depot chooses to use it going forward, I will convince them to donate, not to worry. I can be very persuasive and I will use all my tricks.

Simon, I do make it up to LA occassionally, it would be fun to meet you.

Nate

subtopics change, cleanup --simon, Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:21:36 -0800 reply
I've merged the Zwiki and Plone stuff and cleaned up a little. I didn't manage to update all the ZwikiAndPlone links - tried to do it retroactively in clever ways and damn near lost the whole thing - so we can fix those as needed.

Though it makes pages like ZWiki very slow right now, as long as there's a true show_subtopics property I'm now displaying subtopics by default. I think this will help navigation. A user can still avoid them completely by going to minimal mode. Feedback welcome.

Zwiki test at the Home Depot --Simon Michael, Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:25:22 -0800 reply

page. Now I open the same page and edit it and save. You (still having it open) finish your edits and save. Your changes just overwrote mine and I had no idea that my edits were lost and you had no idea that you

Something's not right. When you go to your editform and view source, does it include:

  <input name="timeStamp" type="hidden" ...

?

you could see the words or even the keystrokes of anyone else editing

Yes, perfectly live co-editing would be the ultimate..

more people participate. It is kind of like having a big, heavy high tech camera for personal photos. Despite its technical superiority, its usability kills it. In the end, a small point and shoot does a better job because it is so much more likely to be used when it counts

Well put. I've always intended Zwiki (the end-user tool) to be point and shoot, though often that gets obscured (hopefully, temporarily) by Zwiki (the messy, evolving research project).

Problems with DTML-Code in a ZWiki under Plone --Phil Hardaker, Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:14:57 -0800 reply

Also what versions of Zope are you both using ?

I am on a shared host at zettai, I believe Zope 2.6.2, Zwiki 0.24

Simultaneous edits --Samotnik, Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:18:47 -0800 reply
Long ago I reported that sometimes crashed when I created a page from a fresh WikiName at the same moment when other user done the same.

Isn't it more reasonable to lock page when somebody BEGINS editing? In Twiki locking a page is kept for another 30 minutes or so, however, the name of the person who locked it is displayed. So, the next user has a choice: to ask previous editor (who locked) for the permission or to begin editing anyway.

searchpage, recentchanges --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:49:46 -0800 reply
How's this effort going? Couple notes so far

I wasn't able to embed a recentchanges into a wiki page. Is this the ideal solution or a redirect to the proper URL on the RecentChanges? page?

The new search page doesn't accept the ?expr= parameter, used by the mis-typed URL error screen.

hello! - GermanFounderWiki? --FlorianKonnertz, Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:27:42 -0800 reply
Just want to say hello, guys!! I'm not very active here on zwiki.org these days, but be sure, I'm still using zwiki extensively :) Currently collecting some infos here... We started a Wiki for german community and wiki founders (see also: MeatBallWiki:GermanFounderWiki ), so i write a lot of documentation about wiki in general. - cu, FloK

Can't create page -- Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:58:57 -0800 reply
Howdy,

I just switched over to Linux, ZWiki 0.24, Zope 2.7 b3

When I try to add a page, I get the following traceback; ...

AttributeError?: class DateTime? has no attribute SyntaxError

#2335 except (AttributeError?,DateTime?.SyntaxError?):

TIA for any help
Kent

Can't create page --Simon Michael, Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:30:17 -0800 reply

AttributeError?: class DateTime? has no attribute SyntaxError

Hi Kent, thanks. You'll find this one in the IssueTracker. We don't currently support Zope 2.7 due to this issue and don't know exactly how to solve it, so I'd appreciate a solution from anyone, especially today in time for the release candidate.

RemoteWikiLink? RFC --DeanGoodmanson, Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:21:32 -0800 reply
RFC: If a RemoteWikiLink? target is a free-form link, that text is converted into the canonicalLink (right term for stripped of whitespace and punctiation?) in the resulting url for RemoteWikiLink? consistency to free-form pages. For Example:

 ZWiki:[General Discussion] , would be rendered as href="http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion"

...and in retrospect, I suppose I should test this before continuing:

 ZWiki:[General Discussion] , [ZWiki]:[General Discussion!] , [zwiki]:[General Discussion!] , ZWiki:GeneralDiscussion

ZWiki:General Discussion , ZWiki:General Discussion! , zwiki:General Discussion! , ZWiki:GeneralDiscussion

WIKI Folder - FrontPage -- Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:15:59 -0800 reply
Hi

I want to create a Folder with a ZWiki page FrontPage as a folder index page. I saw that in Plone.org uses a CMF Wiki for create de folder but I don't want use it. How Can I do this? How Can I create a ZWiki Folder?

Thanks!!

WIKI Folder - FrontPage -- Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:54:35 -0800 reply
Plone.org uses Zwiki. Zwiki takes on a different appearance in Plone (unless you customize the CustomizingTheSkin ).

You don't need a special wiki folder. Just create or move your wiki pages to the top folder. You'll want to make an index_html DTMLMethod that redirects to FrontPage, eg by visiting PAGE/setupDtmlMethods. http://plone.zwiki.org uses this method. Plone 2 has another way of setting the default page I believe.

searchpage, recentchanges --simon, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:57:08 -0800 reply
Hi Dean -

I wasn't able to embed a recentchanges into a wiki page. Is this the ideal solution

Not intentional.. should be possible to fix.

The new search page doesn't accept the ?expr= parameter, used by the mis-typed URL error screen.

I had standard_error_message working with searchwiki here.. do you have the latest of both ?

hello! - GermanFounderWiki? --simon, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:57:45 -0800 reply
Hi Flo - thanks for the update!

RemoteWikiLink? RFC --simon, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:02:39 -0800 reply
Sorry I didn't understand your exact meaning here. Are you saying it doesn't work that way, and should ?

I have some ideas for more featureful [] links also, somewhere around the wiki I think.. anyone seen them ?

searchpage, recentchanges --DeanG, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:11:27 -0800 reply
http://zwiki.org/Cow , then click "Search for this page", brings you to http://zwiki.org/SearchPage?searchexpr=Cow with no results and an unpopulated search entry box.

RemoteWikiLink? RFC --DeanG, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:26:47 -0800 reply

Are you saying it doesn't work that way, and should ?

Yes, but I tried reallllly hard not to say "should" ;-)

When I want to address pages in another wiki, and in my world SubWikis, I don't want to have to build a URL friendly target when specifying freeform names. Thus I would like to leverage the bracket naming notation in the target. This is especially noticable with Issue titles adn page/per FAQ pages, where the notation SomeWiki:[Insert Title Here]? would be more aesthetic and easier than SomeWiki:InsertTitleHere , or even SomeWiki:Insert%20Title%20Here . (<--notice the space after the period, also! ;-))

RemoteWikiLink? RFC --Simon Michael, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:17:43 -0800 reply
I get you, but don't have much feeling on this just now.. if I were you I'd make an issue page to help get a lock on it.

searchpage, recentchanges --Simon Michael, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:10:23 -0800 reply
Oops, I'd left an interim version on zwiki.org. Thanks.

0.25rc1 released --SimonMichael, Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:50:52 -0800 reply
ReleaseNotes has details. Summary: Fully-functional non-DTML wikis now supported and default; refactored default skin with macros, CSS and SkinnedFolder support; quick comments; improved search; code refactoring.

Nice contributions by DanMcmullen, and DeanGoodmanson this month. I think we made excellent progress in terms of cleanup and skinnability, but there's likely to be more bugs than 0.24. Ladies and Gentlemen of the test crew, please start your engines!

Question --Patrick Codere, Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:46:28 -0800 reply
Hi everyone,

I've just installed ZWIKI and was wondering if my Search Engine is suppose to work? It's not working right now. Do I absolutely need to create a ZCatalog? Thanks in advance.

Pat

Question --SimonMichael, Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:13:14 -0800 reply
Hi Patrick. 0.25rc1 I presume ? No you shouldn't need a catalog, it's supposed to work without one, as at http://test.zwiki.org/FrontPage/searchwiki?expr=test .

happy/peaceful thanksgiving --SimonMichael, Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:22:42 -0800 reply
I'm having fun with the skin and CSS and subtopics this morning.

Recent changes and search under Plone working great --Samotnik, Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:30:21 -0800 reply
Thank You, Simon! Now recentchanges and searchpage are working fine in the Plone site. I will link them to wikipage_view.pt, as I linked the contents (displaying pages tree). Great! Now i'm not afraid of loosing contents and have enough access services. Besides, history is working properly, when "full history" option is removed. And Zwiki seems to work faster. The product is getting really usful! :). Thanks again. Samotnik

Question --Patrick Codere, Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:02:25 -0800 reply
Hi,

I've re-installed 0.25rc2 and it works fine now, thanks,

Pat

-----Original Message----- From: zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 5:14 PM Subject: GeneralDiscussion Question

Hi Patrick. 0.25rc1 I presume ? No you shouldn't need a catalog, it's supposed to work without one, as at http://test.zwiki.org/FrontPage/searchwiki?expr=test . -- forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msg20031127141314-0800@zwiki.org

decbleueyes --Patrick Codere, Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:37:11 -0800 reply
Thanks Simon,

I am using the latest Zwiki version and I have tried the http://localhost:8080/ZWiki/setupTracker and I get a "I could not find any likely page matching "setupTracker" and create this page message. Is this normal?

I have enabled DHTML and that works.

Thanks,

PAt?

-----Original Message----- From: Simon Michael Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:15 PM To: zwiki@zwiki.org Subject: Re: GeneralDiscussion decbleueyes

Patrick Codere wrote:

Hi everyone,

I've just installed IssueTracker but the tracker does not calculate properly when I add an issue (it just adds it on every category and on

every
status). Also, the list of issues has a bunch of none for category, none for status, etc. Am I missing anything?

Have you run SOMEPAGE/setupTracker ?

If you're using the IssueTracker page, have you enabled DTML as in ReleaseNotes ?

Or, if you prefer to avoid DTML and use the /issuetracker method, delete the IssueTracker/FilterIssues pages.

decbleueyes --Simon Michael, Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:42:53 -0800 reply

http://localhost:8080/ZWiki/setupTracker and I get a "I could not find any likely page matching "setupTracker" and create this page message. Is this normal?

No isn't. ZWiki should be a page, not the folder.

decbleueyes --Patrick Codere, Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:47:20 -0800 reply
Excuse me for my newbie question, but what do you mean by this?

-----Original Message----- From: Simon Michael Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:33 PM To: zwiki@zwiki.org Subject: Re: GeneralDiscussion decbleueyes

http://localhost:8080/ZWiki/setupTracker and I get a "I could not find any likely page matching "setupTracker" and create this page message. Is this normal?

No isn't. ZWiki should be a page, not the folder.

decbleueyes --SimonMichael, Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:56:19 -0800 reply
Newbie questions welcome..

I mean, if you have a folder named /wiki, containing SomePage?, then the url you want is: http://localhost:8080/wiki/SomePage/setupTracker. I couldn't tell if your ZWiki is the folder or a page. If it's the folder, that would explain your error.

decbleueyes --Patrick Codere, Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:07:10 -0800 reply
I just did what you suggested to do and it works now!!! Thanks so much,

Pat

-----Original Message----- From: zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: GeneralDiscussion decbleueyes

Newbie questions welcome..

I mean, if you have a folder named /wiki, containing SomePage?, then the url you want is: http://localhost:8080/wiki/SomePage/setupTracker. I couldn't tell if your ZWiki is the folder or a page. If it's the folder, that would explain your error. -- forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msg20031128095619-0800@zwiki.org

check out Escapable Logic --SimonMichael, Fri, 28 Nov 2003 21:07:26 -0800 reply
Britt Blaser's blog is terrific.

Political Power - Shall we shape it or endure it?
Like the tech industry, emergent democracy needs critical deadlines to make urgent the deliverables that we might otherwise express as theories. Primaries and elections provide those deadliness and change agents must embrace that urgency. Change needs a series of galvanizing conferences and enterprises to develop the next generation of tools to assemble broad but powerful constituencies.

We should not assume that this public-spirited activity has no ROI. As the Republicans have demonstrated, the payoff from winning is to influence the $1.7 trillion annual budget. To those without extraordinary access and influence, the elimination of special interests is as profitable as was the gaining of influence by the current holders.

0.25rc3 released --SimonMichael, Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:39:15 -0800 reply
Continuing to push the bounds of "release candidate".. here is rc3 with a last round of skin updates (ReleaseNotes). Anyone that can download and help shake bugs out of this over the next 2/3 days will be helping a lot.

I forgot to mention before - you may need to shift-reload to see the new styles on zwiki.org.

New tabs in Plone, 0.25rc3 --Samotnik, Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:55:09 -0800 reply
Just installed 0.25rc3 version under my Plone 1.0.5 (Zope 2.6.2, CMF 1.4.4, Win2000prof., Mozilla 1.5) My first impression is OK. There are my first remarks:

a) There are too much tabs, they can't fit the screen 1024 px wide. The only way to access the issue tabs is to decrease font size (simple in Mozilla, "ctrl -") by two steps.

Why not to make access to these pages using links? In 0.25rc1, I added a line:

  <a href="FrontPage/recentchanges">Chanegs</a> | <a href="" tal:attributes="href here/contentsUrl">Tree</a> | <a href="FrontPage/searchpage">Search this Wiki</a>

just under "small" tag in line 18 of wikipage_view (just above the path display). The links were working fine, but it seems that all Wiki got very slow (strange! more and more slow). Nevertheless, the idea of using links seems to be reasonable.

NOTE: "contents" (equivalent to Map) displays all the pages in tree view - it is usful!

b) Issue tracker is still initiated by typing IssueNo0001 somewhere and klicking question mark behind. OK. But Inside Issue Tracker I have all the pages displayed last modifications (even deletions) on top - like recent changes, not issues.

c) Probably it would be worth to rethink of usfulness of the Issue Tracker. It is necessary for developers, but not for avearge users - except the cases when Wiki is used as help centre. So, I suggest to leave it without tabs. If required, admin of help centre can add the links as described above.

Colours of Issues --Samotnik, Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:19:32 -0800 reply
d) There is too little difference boetween colours of critical and serious issues. Serious should be less red.

New tabs in Plone, 0.25rc3 --SimonMichael, Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:17:31 -0800 reply
Thanks for the feedback.

a) There are too much tabs, they can't fit the screen 1024 px wide. The only

Don't they flow onto two rows ? Like http://plone.zwiki.org in mozilla 1.6 ?

If not we might have to do something. I'm trying to put these somewhere simple right now and not add to the already complex plone ui.

display). The links were working fine, but it seems that all Wiki got very slow (strange! more and more slow). Nevertheless, the idea of using links seems to

I am seeing this right now on zwiki.org, due to conflict errors I think. Do you have show_subtopics or show_navlinks enabled ? How many pages do you have ?

NOTE: "contents" (equivalent to Map) displays all the pages in tree view - it > is usful!

You're right, this should be accessible in plone too.

b) Issue tracker is still initiated by typing IssueNo0001? somewhere and klicking question mark behind. OK.

That's one way, but visiting SOMEPAGE/setupTracker is better. Yes, it looks like you missed this step, causing the next problem.

Wiki is used as help centre. So, I suggest to leave it without tabs. If required, admin of help centre can add the links as described above.

The tracker tabs don't appear unless you have issue pages.

You might be right about the colours, my LCD screen is a bit funny. After setupTracker you'll have an issue_colours property for tweaking.

disabled subtopics temporarily --simon, Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:48:39 -0800 reply
Let's see if zwiki.org comes back to normal speed.

New tabs in Plone, 0.25rc3 --Samotnik, Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:40:21 -0800 reply
Ad a) > two rows are displayed in actual vesrions of Plone 2.0 which is intended to be fully CSS (no tables). But, as far as I know from the Plone collector, it is a fault rather than rule, and will be eliminated in final version. I'm not sure in this matter, better consult A. Limi.

show_subtopics or show_navlinks enabled I have no such options; neither in Properties, nor in Permissions (Control Panel/Products/Zwiki). I tried to add "enable show_navlinks" boolean property to the folder, got error.

I had only 12 pages in this folder, now added 5 test issues (now 17 total).

Ad b) > SOMEPAGE/setupTracker is better Yes, You're right. I visited FrontPage in another zwiki folder and created new Tracker OK

colours - OK, I see :)

By the way - I would like to eliminate Status list, and rename other lists, in order to make a simple discussion forum (board) instead of Issue Tracker. Is it possible, and safety, through respective modifications in Properties? The list translates easily, but I tried to delete issue_statuses property and got error.

New tabs in Plone, 0.25rc3 --Simon Michael, Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:59:29 -0800 reply
Samotnik wrote:

version. I'm not sure in this matter, better consult A. Limi.

Ok, will do. Meanwhile they can be disabled in portal_types.

I had only 12 pages in this folder, now added 5 test issues (now 17 total).

Ok, I can't think of anything Zwiki-related that would cause the slowness then..

By the way - I would like to eliminate Severity list, and rename other lists, in order to make a simple discussion forum (board) instead of Issue Tracker. Is it possible, and safety, through respective modifications in Properties?

Yes, but you'll have to modify code in the issue tracker form and in Tracker.py.

re-enabled show_subtopics --simon, Sun, 30 Nov 2003 13:56:46 -0800 reply
No conflict errors in the last day, and speed feels about normal for zwiki.org (slow, but not unreasonable for what it's doing). Unfortunately I really miss subtopics. Turned them back on, now presumably the catalog conflict errors and intermittent big delays start again.