comments:

dtml in rst patch ? --Simon Michael, Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:47:05 -0800 reply
Stefan sent me a small patch a long time ago enabling DTML in reStructuredText pages.

All: do you think this is a good idea ? Some people love DTML, some hate it and don't want it even as an option; reST is known to be a stickler for precision and predictable formatting; I'm not sure that enabling DTML in reST is a big win.

Stefan: it came bundled with another patch ("change RecentChanges? ZCatalog query-style to avoid deprecation warning"), which I couldn't apply without the above. I'd like to apply it separately. I'd also like you to get proper credit for it in the change history. Would you mind sending it separately ? Possibly it will need to be redone against the current file layout, I don't know. If not no big deal, I'll just do it later.

Thank you!

chinese update + bracket links patch ? --Simon Michael, Thu, 01 Dec 2005 18:56:12 -0800 reply
I have a similar problem with this patch bundle T.C. Chou sent me a few months back:

[Updated zh-TW & zh-CN po files tcchou@tcchou.org**20050529041057] {

[use_bracket_links option doesn't work tcchou@tcchou.org**20050530174333] {

T.C., I rejected the second patch (bracket links) as it didn't seem right, and that code has since been reworked. I don't think I heard back from you about it. Now I'm not sure how to apply just the po file patch, or if you already resubmitted it.

Do I remember correctly that you sent me a link to your own darcs repo, from which I could pull directly ? Could you resend, or if some of your work is not yet in the main Zwiki repo, please resend it as a separate patch.

All developers: perhaps there's some easy way to get around this that I'm missing, but for the time being it seems the best thing is to send only one patch at a time - don't let it send several of them in a bundle. That way I can quickly apply or reject them individually.

Thanks!

Zwiki 0.48 released, news --Simon Michael, Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:18:27 -0800 reply
Zwiki is a powerful, easy to use and administer, GPL wiki engine for Zope 2. It works in both standard Zope and CMF/Plone. Version 0.48 has been released at http://zwiki.org . More useful urls are at the end of this message.

Very quiet month in Zwiki-land; I've been paying the bills. Thanks to Stefan Rank, Frank Laurijssens, and especially Encople Degoute for keeping things moving in a good direction!

I posted http://joyfulsystems.blogspot.com/2005/11/development-roadmap-call-for-help.html , but time has been short and I'm not sure a year-end 1.0 push will happen. But you never know..

Best wishes for the year-end holidays. -Simon

Zwiki 0.48.0 2005/12/01

Summary

French and dutch translation updates & several small bugfixes.

Changes

Issue tracking

Useful urls:

if you don't see the Unsubscribe button, you may have lost your email address cookie --Simon Michael, Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:20:46 -0800 reply
Tom Cloyd wrote:

Very nice. That did exactly what you said it would. May I suggest you plant a flag in plain site telling people how to do this, so that subscribing isn't a kind of black hole? :) On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:10:25 -0800, Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> wrote:
Very nice. That did exactly what you said it would. May I suggest you plant a flag in plain site telling people how to do this, so that subscribing isn't a kind of black hole? :) On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 19:10:25 -0800, Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom.. I'll look at it asap. Quick thing to try - re-enter your > email address (the one you would subscribed as in the past) in user > options ("options" at top right). Then visit the subscribe form again, this time one or both buttons should be Unsubscribe buttons.

dtml in rst patch ? -- Thu, 01 Dec 2005 20:23:44 -0800 reply
If there's no security issue, it's just one more functionality to maintain :)

dtml in rst patch ? --tom, Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:25:06 -0800 reply
It would be nice to be able to add wiki metadata (such as the author or last edited time) to the docinfo block of a page. However, I agree that there's a good chance that maintaining this feature would be fairly difficult.

I guess that if someone's already provided the patch, then why not?

dtml in rst patch ? --Simon Michael, Sat, 03 Dec 2005 08:13:06 -0800 reply
Thanks Stefan. I'll apply this I guess. As a matter of interest, what do you use it for ? I have the impression that the people using Zwiki's DTML feature are a very small minority; and that the DTML-lovers who'd choose RST over STX are a very small minority of those.

Comment box? --DeanG, Sat, 03 Dec 2005 10:26:38 -0800 reply
Did some formattng move the comment box out of sight, or is it just my odd setup?

dtml in rst patch ? --Frank Laurijssens, Sat, 03 Dec 2005 15:13:42 -0800 reply

DTML support seems to disappear quickly. Last month, I filed bug 4895 at plone.org because a lot of translations had disappeared when I upgraded from Plone 2.1 to 2.1.1 and the i18n stuff in DTML no longer worked.

Comment box? --DeanG, Sat, 03 Dec 2005 19:25:59 -0800 reply
Odd browser render issue.

RecentChangesCamp? --DeanG, Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:02:45 -0800 reply
http://recentchangescamp.org/ Gathering in Portland Oregon February 3-5, 2006

...dangerously close to PyCon? 2006, February 24-26, 2006 Addison, Texas (near Dallas)

policy changes coming --Simon Michael, Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:23:23 -0800 reply
I've posted http://zwiki.org/PolicyAnnouncementDraft for your feedback.. I hope to post it more widely later.

Thanks -Simon

use utf-8 encoding for python files --Encolpe Degoute, Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:33:58 -0800 reply
I put encoding headers on all ZWiki files in my repository. I may fix some strange behavior around encoding.

use utf-8 encoding for python files --Simon Michael, Thu, 08 Dec 2005 07:10:07 -0800 reply
Thanks.. I'm not seeing these in your public repo, the one linked at CodeRepos.. ?

use utf-8 encoding for python files --Encolpe Degoute, Thu, 08 Dec 2005 07:20:26 -0800 reply
It's only on my laptop in fact. I forgot to synchronise. I will synchronise tonight.

It makes all translations change too.

Strange html page titles -- Fri, 09 Dec 2005 07:34:12 -0800 reply
Hello

I have recently set up a Zwiki at spyse.sf.net and am quite happy with it. One thing I don't get is why the window title of the html pages is so strange. The main page has the title "Spyse Home", but the window title is "Spyse Home Spyse Home". Why? How can this be fixed?

thanks for your help, Andre

Strange html page titles --Simon Michael, Fri, 09 Dec 2005 10:32:09 -0800 reply
I think the html title (which you see in the window titlebar, bookmarks, etc.) is the folder's title property plus the page name.

Strange html page titles --tom, Fri, 09 Dec 2005 13:00:18 -0800 reply
A common pattern in the ZWiki world is to have the FrontPage page be your "store front" to the world while organizing the rest of your content under a page that uses the title of your web site as it's title.

So, for example, you could create a page called "Spyse" and organize all of your content under that page heirarchically. Then, you would put all of your "splash" content on your FrontPage page with links to the content under your "Spyse" main page.

This is how ZWiki.org and a lot of wiki pages are organized. ZWiki.org even uses a little DTML to create a "portlet" of links to the content under the "main" ZWiki page. It's on the left-hand side of the page, and fairly simple to implement.

This, of course, isn't the only way to do things, but it works pretty well for a lot of ZWiki site maintainers, and it would make your page titles look a little more intuitive.

Hope that helps!

Tom Purl

Strange html page titles --EmmaLaurijssens, Fri, 09 Dec 2005 14:58:59 -0800 reply
Another thought: if you are running Plone, the portal name is always added to the page title.

Strange html page titles --Simon Michael, Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:35:12 -0800 reply
More about page hierarchy: the simplest arrangement is having your front page also be the main parent of all content. Then visitors will see the front page + subtopics without having to dig around. I usually start wikis that way.

When the subtopics get overwhelming and you want a simpler front page, you can move most or all of them to a separate page which is not parented under the front page, as I did with http://zwiki.org/ZWiki .

Note, if you run with DTML enabled it's now possible to limit the depth of the subtopics list. http://zwiki.org/FrontPage does this, and also it displays the subtopics of ZWiki rather than its own. In this situation it might be simpler now to move ZWiki content under FrontPage again.

A related issue is whether to give your front page a topical name, like ZWiki, or something generic like FrontPage. The former is sometimes clearer and more recognizable, but when you need to remember a valid page url the latter is easier, also plone recognizes it as the folder's default view by default.

Strange html page titles --simon, Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:44:48 -0800 reply
PS, wandering further from this thread's original topic: note that the zwiki.org hierarchy and subtopic ordering has deteriorated a bit of late, don't take it as a textbook example..

Zwiki contributor policy update --Simon Michael, Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:03:23 -0800 reply
Hi all!

I'm slightly burned out and bored with certain areas of Zope 2 Zwiki development. I think the product will provide some value for a while yet, and it's not too late to shake things up and make a bigger splash. If we don't do this during the period of Zwiki & Zope 2's relevance, our good work will bring less benefit than it might have. So I'm putting out a call for help. I'd really like to see more people take on development of Zwiki.

What are the roadblocks - of my making, and otherwise - to a more active Zwiki developer community ? For one thing I needed to nail down some copyright/license issues more explicitly, to make contributing and accepting contributions more of a no-brainer. Here's my latest thinking:

LICENSE

Much Zope code uses the ZPL. We want to maximize code sharing and participation with the whole Zope community. Much of the rest of the FOSS world uses the GPL, and the same goes for them. Dual GPL/ZPL licensing may seem a good option, but I'm convinced it's not worth the added complexity, legal uncertainty and fragmentation; either straight GPL or straight ZPL is preferable. GPL is the mainstream license for the future IMHO, I think it's still the best option, and I have no plan to leave it. Also I think we should adopt GPLv3?? when it's ready. That said, there's now clear policy allowing non-GPL code to be added to Zwiki if necessary (below). Also I remain open to license exemption requests from Zope developers.

COPYRIGHT

I no longer think the single copyright holder policy is best for this project, and I'm going to drop it. I am changing the main repo's policy to multiple copyright holders (& allowing multiple licenses), with the simple condition that the overall project manager is assigned the right to relicense to newer license versions. The powerful darcs revision control system (together with new CONTRIBUTORS list) should help us to keep track of copyright & licensing status and even remove problematic commits later if needed.

CONTRIBUTOR'S AGREEMENT

To ensure that everyone gets proper credit for their work; a clear audit trail and legal status for the project; and that the project can remain license-compatible with other free & open-source software in future, I have added a very simple contributor agreement/contributor list: http://zwiki.org/repos/ZWiki/CONTRIBUTORS.txt . All Zwiki contributors should read and consider signing this file, to help us meet these goals. You can follow this easy procedure to add your name to the glorious list:

 (install darcs if needed, see http://darcs.net/DarcsWiki/CategoryBinaries)
 darcs get --partial http://zwiki.org/repos/ZWiki
 cd ZWiki
 echo "- Your Name <your@email>" >>CONTRIBUTORS.txt
 darcs record -a -m"signed it" CONTRIBUTORS.txt
 (enter your name & email address again)
 darcs send 

This will become the authoritative list of code committers (at least), and I'll be working to make sure all of you are listed properly. Many have donated their time and creativity over the years - this list will make that clearer.

All comments, help and other ideas welcome. And I hope to see some of you online or off. Happy holidays, and thanks

-Simon

ButtonBar?? --DeanG, Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:14:25 -0800 reply
Anyone implemented a "ButtonBar?" plain text formatting assistant for StructuredText or reStructuredText?

A button bar is similar to the one in MediaWiki? editor where it isn't a WYSIWYG editor, but a toolbar which will insert the markup alongside your text. Saw this implemented in PMWiki? http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Cookbook/GuiEdit

I like this a lot better than WYSIWYG, as it retains the PlainText? nature of the wiki content.

Re: ButtonBar? --Bill Page, Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:24:45 -0800 reply
We have implemented something like that at http://wiki.axiom-developer.org not just for StructuredText but also for the Axiom and LaTeX? interfaces. It uses some basic javascript. Cross browser compatibility is a bit of a problem. I would be glad to discuss ways of improving this.

Re: ButtonBar? --DeanG, Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:27:27 -0800 reply
Nice! +1 on the comment Preview!!

Strange html page titles -- Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:31:12 -0800 reply
After playing around with your hints and reparenting pages in various ways I still cannot figure out how to make the window title more intuitive. If it only was true that the window title was folder title + page title, but that does not seem to be the case. The title I get is TWICE the title of any page I view. When I change the title field of /SpyseHome?, for example, from "Spyse Home" to "XYZ", the window title becomes "XYZ XYZ". It should be something like "Spyse Wiki - XYZ", however ("Spyse Wiki" is the top-level title of the ZWiki instance). How do you guys manage to have it well titled?

IRC down? -- Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:53:00 -0800 reply
Had trouble logging onto IRC via GAIM today. Is it down?

IRC down? --Encolpe Degoute, Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:42:11 -0800 reply
No, GAIM it's down for IRC stuff. Use XChat?.

Migrating namespaces -- Tue, 20 Dec 2005 06:48:50 -0800 reply
Looking for advice, history, etc..

How have you dealt with content coming into a Zwiki when migrating a wiki that has actively used the Sub-wiki page forward-slash namespacing?

Do they easily fold into Topics/Subtopics?

At what point have decreed "New Subwiki!"/WikiFarm?

Do you keep up the pattern with keeping the namespace? Namespace/Page , or Namespace-Page

diff -- Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:26:07 -0800 reply
After some searching I found that adding /diff after a page's url gives me access to the change history - very nice!

Would it be possible to add the date and author of each change, too? And add an optional overview of all modifications on one page instead of separate pages (not Full History)? Thanks a lot.

diff --Phil Schumm, Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:08:43 -0800 reply
I had a brief conversation with Simon back in March regarding potential enhancements to ZWiki's diff interface (I am including that conversation below since it never made it onto zwiki.org). Suffice it to say that some additions/changes to the diff page would make it much more useful for us too, and the changes you suggest (i.e., adding the datetime and author of each change and a concise way to look at the full history) are certainly among them. Unfortunately this is simply not a priority for me right now (as you can tell -- I've done nothing on it since March), and that's unlikely to change in the near future.

-- Phil

On Mar 28, 2005, at 5:43 AM, Phil Schumm wrote:

Although ZWiki's history browsing mechanism (via calling the diff method on a page) has some nice features (e.g., the ability to page back and forth between successive changes and nicely formatted comparisons), there are a few problems. For example, using the "Revert change" button fails to reset the page's last_edit_time appropriately. In addition, going back more than 20 revisions and/ or locating a particular revision by date or author requires using the ZMI. A number of issues have already been posted WRT these matters, for example:

http://zwiki.org/47NeedMoreAttractiveHistoryDiffBrowsing http://zwiki.org/555DiffsDontShowDateTimeOrAuthor

Clearly, the biggest limitation here is the reliance on the ZODB for document storage. Nevertheless, an improved interface that addresses some of these issues would be very helpful to our users (and, I suspect, to others out there). With this in mind, I was wondering if someone had already written down some ideas on this -- a sort of ZWiki Enhancement Proposal, if you will. If not, does anyone think this would be helpful, and if so, where on zwiki.org is the best place to do it? I'd prefer to see where others are on this first before I start coding a solution just for myself.

On Mar 28, 2005, at 12:24 PM, Phil Schumm wrote:

At 9:13 AM -0800 3/28/05, Simon Michael wrote:
Thanks Phil. You're asking in the right place. There's no prior work on this as far as I can remember. When it's time to make it more of a proposal, you could open a wishlist issue in the IssueTracker.

Ok, I will.

The current history feature can be made a lot more useful with just UI improvements, but is still hampered by the reliance on zodb history. Two workarounds (which I haven't tried myself) are to never pack your zodb, possibly mounting a separate zodb just for your wikis (zope.org does this); and using DirectoryStorage? to store revisions on the filesystem. It would be great to have solid, non-memory-bloating storage of page revisions 1, 2, ... n that worked out of the box.

I have several ZWikis?, and each is stored in its own ZODB file using a separate mount point so that I can repack individually, and so that I can repack the rest of the ZODB without affecting the Wikis. This strategy also makes the Wikis easier to move (since for the moment, my creation_time properties are still getting reset when I copy/extract a ZWiki). This strategy works well for me. I don't store code in the Wikis (nor any of my own personal writing), but instead use them for project documentation and other types of collaborative writing. Thus, it's not a problem to discard changes older than one year every once in a while. And since we keep nightly archives, nothing is ever truly lost.

In my case, I have disabled the "Revert changes..." button on the history page (since it doesn't reset the last_edited_time) and have, for the moment, overridden manage_change_history_page() (still available via the "full history" button) so that the interface works a bit better for users without management permissions or experience with the ZMI. But these are only intended as stop-gap measures.

I don't know how you might feel, but personally I like ViewCVS?'s interface a lot. For example, suppose that "full history" took you to a formatted list of previous versions, each item indicating the username, date, and edit note corresponding to the version (here the edit note would be similar to the commit message in CVS). We might cull from this list any versions which did not result in an actual change to the page's content, and perhaps also present it in batched form. Within each item in the list, links could be presented either (1) to take the user to the source of the previous version, or (2) to revert to that version. And finally, we could have a form at the top and/or bottom that would permit you to diff between any two versions (including the current one), perhaps using a similar output format to ViewCVS?.

On Mar 31, 2005, at 9:19 AM, Simon Michael wrote:

It sounds good. I also like trac's diff display.

I18Nlayers with ZWiki in Plone? --Bill Page, Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:55:19 -0800 reply
In Plone there is a product called I18NLayer which provides multi-lingual document features, i.e. documents can have different language variants which are displayed depending on the browser language settings. I think it would be very cool if this feature was available to ZWiki pages in Plone.

In fact is sort-of kind-a works because the I18NLayer does attempt to insert itself if one attempts to specify a translation for a wiki page. What happens is that the original version of the FrontPage becomes an ZWiki page named en in a folderish I18NLayer object named FrontPage. Access to FrontPage still works because the I18NLayer maps this to the en page. Things fail when it tries to create for example the fr object which would be the French variant of the FrontPage. The fr Zwiki page is created but I get an error "copy error" message. But I can patch things up in the ZMI by manually editing the content of fr. Now in Plone I can switch between the English and French version of FrontPage.

Anyone have any ideas about making this really work? Is there much interest in this sort of feature?

SearchPage? thorough search -- Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:41:40 -0800 reply
+1 !! Remove the "for spam" comment and chuck that one into the searchpage product code. :D

New ZWiki Theme --TomPurl, Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:40:31 -0800 reply
Hey again guys. I've been working on a new theme for ZWiki that's a copy of the Kubrick theme for Wordpress. You can see a rough snapshot of it on the ZWikiKubrick page.

Anyhoo, so far I've been editing my .pt files via the ZMI, which has been very nice and handy. Now, however, I'm to the point where I would like to save my .pt files to disk so I can do things like check my HTML into darcs.

The problem is that I have no idea how to do this. I've scoured this web site for some info, but I couldn't find any docs on this. I also looked at the source code for ZWiki, but quickly became lost.

Can someone please point me in the right direction? Is there a page that I'm missing? If the page doesn exists, then could someone then give me a 30-second overview as to how something like this is done?

Thanks in advance!

New ZWiki Theme --Tom Purl, Thu, 22 Dec 2005 07:49:18 -0800 reply
I just realized that my question was very vague. What I want to do is to integrate a new theme/skin into the ZWiki product. So, when you're looking at the the ZWiki product folder, there would be something like a ZWikiKubrick folder.

I'm not too concerned with doing anything fancy at this point, like making the theme an option for new wikis. I just want to add it to the filesystem so I'm no longer doing my editing/revision management through the ZMI.

Thanks again!

kupu_library_tool -- Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:59:23 -0800 reply
I'm really enjoying using Zwiki within Plone. When using Kupu within Plone, I want my Zwiki pages to show up as linkable objects. I was directed via #plone to the kupu_library_tool, but when there, I cannot add ZWiki Page as a Resource Type:Linkable. Error: Resource type: linkable, invalid type: ZWiki Page

Any thoughts?