comments:

update --Simon Michael, Sat, 01 Apr 2006 05:13:52 -0800 reply
I've been racing to complete the views overhaul and get things solid again. Given our limited resources for testing and maintaining multiple versions, I decided full speed ahead was the right strategy. I feel good about the viewgeddon branch now and will merge it with the main repo tomorrow.

I've had zero tester feedback, which makes post-release bugs more likely (there's still time! test with zope 2.7, 2.8, plone 2.0, and old templates). However I know this code well, it has been thoroughly exercised on zope 2.9 & plone 2.1, I think the risk at this point is no greater than it would have been with a 0.51.1 release.

Things to check out:

update --Phil Schumm, Sat, 01 Apr 2006 05:32:32 -0800 reply
On Apr 1, 2006, at 7:14 AM, Simon Michael wrote:

I've had zero tester feedback, which makes post-release bugs more likely (there's still time! test with zope 2.7, 2.8, plone 2.0, and old templates).

FWIW, although I've been buried in other work lately, I've been following the progress here and it looks beautiful. Within the next couple weeks I shall begin testing heavily, both under Zope 2.8.6 straight and under Plone 2.1. I'll certainly report any problems we come across then. But I am looking forward to it.

-- Phil

update --Simon Michael, Sat, 01 Apr 2006 15:20:42 -0800 reply
Thanks Phil, encouragement also helps. It's easy to forget there's users out ther.

viewgeddon branch has landed --Simon Michael, Sat, 01 Apr 2006 16:11:58 -0800 reply
FYI, see related GeneralDiscussion posting (easiest to find here: http://joyfulsystems.blogspot.com/2006/04/update.html). And I merged the ZWiki-viewgeddon branch into the main ZWiki repo, so you probably want to pay attention to that one now as it will be more current. I'll use ZWiki-viewgeddon again only if I need to try something disruptive.

Everything should now be working at least as well as before. In plone we are lacking the zwiki styles and the plone action icons (do we care about those ?)

Zwiki 0.52 released --Simon Michael, Sat, 01 Apr 2006 20:23:12 -0800 reply
No time for foolery! Alas. Zwiki 0.52 has been released at http:// zwiki.org. Zwiki is a free, powerful, easy to use and manage wiki engine for Zope 2; it works with standard Zope, CMF or Plone sites. Here is the news.

Summary

Restructured Text fixed & now the default markup, standard skin templates refactored and used for plone, zwiki/plone skin switching always available, wiki navigation links and issuebrowser (re-)enabled, better styles, zope 2.7 support fixed, slow freeform link rendering fixed, translation updates including a new Thai translation, much code cleanup.

Upgrade notes

A lot of skins code has changed. Your old wikis should keep working as before except:

Changes

Installing
Configuring
Browsing
Editing
Page hierarchy

Mail

Issue tracking
Translations
General

Urls:

http://zwiki.org http://joyful.com http://joyfulsystems.blogspot.com http://zwiki.org/FreeHosting

Happy Springcleaning! -Simon

how to find darcs repos quickly --Simon Michael, Sun, 02 Apr 2006 14:46:13 -0700 reply
Tip: when you want to find one of the Zwiki darcs repositories, "zwiki.org/darcs" will take you to the list, where you can see the descriptions and urls and browse the repos via darcsweb when available.

I renamed CodeRepos and another page to effect this. Sometimes it's useful to do this, ie choose your page names so that mnemonic short urls can be used.

ZWiki not appearing in Plone's automatic tabs and navigation slot --kaarle, Mon, 03 Apr 2006 23:26:24 -0700 reply
When adding a ZWiki as an item below a plone site (so that it appears as myplone.org/mywiki) using the Zope admin interface, there will be no automatic generated plone tab and no entry in the navigation slot (unless the wiki is entered). Using python 2.3.5, zope 2.7.8, plone 2.1.2, zwiki 0.52

ZWiki not appearing in Plone's automatic tabs and navigation slot --Phil Schumm, Tue, 04 Apr 2006 06:35:35 -0700 reply
This is because adding a ZWiki through the ZMI creates a plain Folder instance, whereas within Plone you want an ATFolder?. Start by creating a new folder within Plone, then add a ZWiki page to it (again within Plone). This will give you a ZWiki within Plone that is picked up by the automatic tabs. If you want the other default pages that are automatically created in a new ZWiki (e.g., HelpPage, WikiWikiWeb, ZWiki, etc.) you can copy and paste those from another ZWiki instance, but if you do this through the ZMI, you'll probably need to rebuild your catalog.

FLASH SPRINT 1025-1100 PST: UPDATE ZWIKI FAQ --Simon Michael, Tue, 04 Apr 2006 11:32:41 -0700 reply
right now in #zwiki! Come on, come all to help fix up our dusty old FAQ!

ZWiki not appearing in Plone's automatic tabs and navigation slot --kaarle, Tue, 04 Apr 2006 23:28:36 -0700 reply
thank you, that works now.

go Frank! --Simon Michael, Fri, 07 Apr 2006 10:12:46 -0700 reply
It's great to have people working on the issues. Bugfix release coming soon.

go Frank! --Frank Laurijssens, Fri, 07 Apr 2006 11:47:33 -0700 reply
I don't know how long I can keep up with it. My youngest daughter is trying to help me :-):

 NGGBBVBBBG``B``111`1BBBBB1FTTTTTTTTTT555555555555555555555555555555555

 b                74        kn              hh  

go Frank! --EmmaLaurijssens, Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:06:43 -0700 reply
I'm opening more issues than I'm closing. Is that a good or a bad thing?

go Frank! --Simon Michael, Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:32:23 -0700 reply
It's perfectly fine. I find that they open and close in clumps. Closing is more work and may require more hands and organization to keep up.. I'm not sure.

Zwiki 0.52.1c1 released, please test --Simon Michael, Sat, 08 Apr 2006 14:43:49 -0700 reply
I have released 0.52.1 release candidate 1.. please test as much as possible, especially the fixes. Just a reminder, we are at the moment trying to make ubuntu feel good enough about 0.52.x that they'll include it in their dapper release instead of 0.38 (cf https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/zope-zwiki/+bug/29051). I'll release 0.52.1 final tomorrow if things look good.

Zwiki 0.52.1 released --Simon Michael, Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:01:16 -0700 reply
I've released Zwiki 0.52.1. We are aiming for a 0.52.x release that's extra-solid, so please keep reporting issues and I will make another bugfix release if needed. Thanks!

Summary

Bugfix release.

Upgrade notes

If you installed 0.52 in a CMF or Plone site for the first time, the zwiki_standard skin layer may not have been installed and some images may appear broken. If so, uninstall and reinstall Zwiki in add/remove products.

Changes

Installing

Configuring

Browsing

Editing

Page hierarchy

Mail

Issue tracking

Translations

General

plone skin --finrod, Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:49:29 -0700 reply
So I just upgraded to the latest version of zwiki from 0.47 and there are definitely a lot of changes in the styles. I read thru alot of the materials and can appreciate all the great work. Our wiki has a pretty deep structure and the new style for the breadcrubming at the top pushes the content way down the page - unlike the previous style. I assume this is intentional - but at least for our wiki it does not work well.

What's the best way for me to approach making changes to this so that I can get back to the old look? Do I need to create my own skin?

beren

I also notice that the linking in Firefox has no bullets, but in IE there is bullet for each branch.

plone skin --finrod, Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:54:03 -0700 reply
I also notice that if I do not have zwiki_standard above zwiki_plone in the skin list then I will get an error about a missgin attribute:

Module Products.PageTemplates.Expressions, line 327, in restrictedTraverse - __traceback_info__: {'path': ['ratingform']?, 'TraversalRequestNameStack?': []} AttributeError?: ratingform

plone skin --Simon Michael, Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:05:23 -0700 reply
Hi, thanks for these reports. It's not intended for the heading to take up a big chunk of the screen. Off the top of my head, the change you're seeing might be related to:

  1. instead of '< big>< big>< big>< big>< strong> we now use < h1 style="display:inline">'
  2. the whole header used to be wrapped in a '< small>', which I removed

The easiest way to change the look: just customize the wikipage template (in portal_skins/zwiki_standard, for one site, or in Products/ZWiki/skins/zwiki_standard, for all sites). What if you simply replace it with the wikipage.pt from 0.51 ?

There is a lot of (too much) documentation on skin customization on zwiki.org. However, note there are a few things not controlled by the template, such as point 1 above which is due to a change in OutlineSupport?.py -> context(). It would be useful to see a screenshot if you have time (open an issue page and upload it there).

plone skin --finrod, Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:57:52 -0700 reply
Ok - I opened 1250...and attached a screen shot. I'll try to replace it with the 0.51 .pt, but as you say I don't think this will make a difference. I should also have pointed out that I've tried this on both Plone 2.1.2 (windows) and the new plone 2.5/zope 2.9 beta. The screen shot is from plone 2.1.2 on windows.

fin

keeping history after zodb --nachtigall, Tue, 11 Apr 2006 06:02:30 -0700 reply
If I pack the zodb, all the wiki history seems to be lost. Is there a way to pack the zodb (which gets pretty large due to plone) and keeping the wiki history?

Jens

keeping history after zodb --Simon Michael, Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:53:21 -0700 reply
Alas, no. You can do what zope.org does: keep your wiki in a separate mounted zodb which is never packed.

other rst wikis ? --Simon Michael, Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:54:37 -0700 reply
Hey all,

what other wiki engines have you used that support Restructured Text ?

Re: Thinkubator: a zwiki customization --Simon Michael, Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:08:58 -0700 reply
Now we're talking! Check out this very cool zwiki link John sent me.

John Maxwell wrote:

Hi, Simon,

I've been a fan/user of zwiki for years; thought I'd share our latest work with you.

I run a site called Thinkubator, a community hub based on Zope, for my graduate students in publishing. I've been gradually migrating everything into ZWiki (as opposed to Plone, Squishdot, etc. etc.) and this year decided to make it complete. My students and I recently completed a total site redesign with ZWiki as the core, but with a snazzy graphic design and a blog-like architecture for following what's going on underneath. The site is at:

http://thinkubator.ccsp.sfu.ca

Some features:

  • it is all done in DTML (mostly 'cause I'm sick of wrestling with PTs?); it is 100% clean XHTML + CSS, and very modular code.
  • I've created a simple construct called a listing that produces a blog-style output of any page's subtopics; this is the main organizing principle of the site; we have 6 or so of these as the main navigational components, but of course you can have as many as you like, any time you like, since a listing is just a method called on a wiki page.
  • it runs RST as the default page type; I would have made it HTML via Epoz, but we wanted to support comments, and HTML pages seem to preclude that.

The site still has a few rough edges and some improvements to be made, but I thought I'd pass this on as an example of how far one can go from bare wiki with a minimum of development work (this was all put together in a matter of days).

Re: Thinkubator: a zwiki customization --Simon Michael, Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:48:30 -0700 reply
John's listing dtml method (?) I think does a similar job to the "What's New "in-page dtml on our FrontPage, but restricted to the subtopics of a particular page. It's a good thing to have in an easily reusable form like this.

I wonder if he considered using http://zwiki.org/CustomizingAppearance#customizing-the-subtopics to always display subtopics in that style. That would do away with the "/listing" urls I suppose.

alt-n and alt-p don't work (pity), but alt-c shows the structure.

John you might prefer to remove the q access key's /src link to reduce clutter in google results for your site.

Long may this wiki remain spam free! Be ready to upgrade and take advantage of the edits_need_username feature when the time comes.

Re: Thinkubator: a zwiki customization --John Maxwell, Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:57:20 -0700 reply
Indeed, our listing method is little more than a modification of subtopics_board.

The key idea here was to be able to have a simple and flexible means of determining what would appear in the blog-style listings, and what would stay out of sight; listing all new pages or all new changes often generates WAY too much material. So constraining it to particular key category pages was the solution.

In a sense this makes the blog-listing/subtopics display subject to a kind of editorial control rather than just being algorithmic. We'll see how that plays out over time.

Thanks for the alt-Q tip.

Re: LatexWiki and wiki's --Bob McElrath?, Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:01:30 -0700 reply
Bill Page [zwiki@zwiki.org]? wrote:

In the near future I would like to help Bob develope the new generation LatexWiki that provides more faux-LaTeX? and less stx in such a way that it also could be used with ZwikiMath?.

Glad to hear it!

I have thought about Restructured Text (rst) but even if we manange a Tex integration with rst then I don't think it is much of a net gain for mathematically-oriented wiki users.

I've avoided the rst route because its syntax is overly verbose, and more than I want to ask a casual contributor to learn.

Faux-Latex would be superior for this purpose.

Glad to hear it! The code right now is a pybison module which read latex and spits out xhtml. As such, it has nothing to do with ZWiki or any other system yet, and we can think about how to incorporate it.

I was looking at Plone again today for the portal I'm developing, and was wondering...what the heck do you do with the bibliography? I see you're using it on mathaction, but is it any better than a glorified list? Can I \cite{important_paper} to make citations appear? Much googling couldn't answer this question for me...

Plone Bibliography --Page, Bill, Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:13:43 -0700 reply
Bob McElrath? wrote:

I was looking at Plone again today for the portal I'm developing, and was wondering...what the heck do you do with the bibliography? I see you're using it on mathaction, but is it any better than a glorified list? Can I \cite{important_paper} to make citations appear? Much googling couldn't answer this question for me...

Import bibtex citations into a database. Edit citations. Search the database (along with the rest of the contents of the portal). Extract bibtex citations for inclusion in LaTeX? documents and/or .bib file. I guess it is a little better than a glorified list. :)

Hmmm... since we have some direct support for LaTeX? on Plone (via ZWiki) then I suppose it might make sense to make this more transparent, extracting citations from the Plone bibliography database and running bibtex all automatically... :) By-golly it's easy to get overly ambitious!

more spam --Simon Michael, Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:28:46 -0700 reply
I removed some hidden spam links from FrontPage, the first incident since I enabled edits_need_username. If you want to keep an eye on this, subscribe to all edits or browse the gmane...zwiki.edits newsgroup (should be linked at AboutZwikiDiscussion). But there seems to be a problem with mailout: #1254.

Re: Thinkubator: a zwiki customization --Simon Michael, Sat, 15 Apr 2006 08:04:45 -0700 reply
John, Thinkubator is cool. I read that you went to a plone wiki and then back during development, and other interesting stuff about its history. While reading your writing on wiki I kept muttering "yeah! exactly! that's what I'm talking about!"

The course wiki behind it is one of the best uses of Zwiki I've seen, with it's 500 pages of interesting, organized, high-signal content. I'd be happy to hear more feedback or requests based on your experience in that setting any time.

Is it ok to link this one also on PeopleUsingZwiki ? We need lots more examples like these to shift the wrong idea that wikis must be chaotic and ugly.

Am I right in thinking you have some code there that shows the latest comments from the whole wiki, in addition to the latest pages ? Also if you get around to publishing the skin templates some time, at ZwikiSkins? or somewhere, I think people will find that interesting and perhaps see that DTML is a rather nice and useful option to have in the toolbox !

Open issues --EmmaLaurijssens, Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:16:33 -0700 reply
Out of 395 open issues, currently 259 have a "wishlist" status. There are a lot of good ideas and valid wishes among those, but a good 70% of the wishlist issues haven't been looked at in more than a year.

IMHO many of those issues:

If I find some spare time in the next couple of weeks, I'm willing to spend some of that time adding my own classification to those issues. I could add comments to the issues themselves, or I could add a new page (WishlistGeddon?) with all issues involved grouped by classification. Any ideas?

We might be able to do the same with the other issues as well. If we could reduce the number of open issues substantially this way, a 1.0 version of Zwiki could be within reach.

Open issues --Simon Michael, Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:12:03 -0700 reply
Thanks for doing this Frank. I actually was thinking "1.0" again in the last day or so. Wishlist issues shouldn't block that, but winnowing them is a good idea. Whatever you think is easiest. It can be useful to divide and conquer by categories using FilterIssues. You/we could do a quick review of each category and get a rough consensus on how many to close. This could go very fast on irc.

Re: Thinkubator: a zwiki customization --jmax, Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:04:20 -0700 reply
Thanks for the extra interest in Thinkubator. I've actually run several courses out of zwikis in the ast; each time I do it, it gets a little bit better - the more you trust your users, the better it turns out, so far.

We've gone Plone in the past, and later abandoned it. It is always so tempting because it has such a rich featureset "out of the box." However, customizing it is always such a hair-pulling experience that I now like to stick with plain Zope and things that do one or two things very well - like ZWiki.

There isn't really code that lists recent comments - it's really just "changes" but since we've streamlined how people add content, chances are that instead of edits, we're getting comments. Thinkubator does a simple filter of recent changes; if it has more than 1 comment, it gets listed under the "comments" column, and if it has no comments, it gets listed as new entries. Not terribly robust, but roughly workable.

My #1 wishlist item would be the ability to easily subclass/specialize page types (e.g.: news; notes; people; references; drink recipes; etc.) and then be able to style them and customize navigation based on class. It gets away from pure wiki, but I think it would be worth it. The closest thing to this currently is Pier, which is just enough of a learning curve away that I'm not tempted to go there anytime soon. Besides, hacking zwiki is easy enough for now.

Re: Thinkubator: a zwiki customization --Simon Michael, Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:27:14 -0700 reply

My #1 wishlist item would be the ability to easily subclass/specialize page types (e.g.: news; notes; people; references; drink recipes; etc.) and then be able to style them and customize navigation based on class.
How about encoding the type in the page name and customizing maintemplate (or wikipage in your version) to select a different stylesheet or template based on it.
The closest thing to this currently is Pier, which is just enough of a learning curve away that I'm not tempted to go there anytime soon.
I have that challenge too, and the same with Smallwiki and Swiki. Though I did get the latter installed last week and spent some time looking at it. I hoped to try an experimental swiki -> zwiki mirror.

Open issues --Simon Michael, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:17:15 -0700 reply
I made a pass through the user-browsing wishlist issues, closed 8 of 20. The others seem worth keeping.

Darn it --simon, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:35:06 -0700 reply
zwiki.org got massively link-spammed yesterday (see "irenst" in recent changes). Don't bother fixing it, I'll figure out some more automated way tomorrow.

For this site, edits_need_username alone is no longer enough. What shall be the next move in the ever-evolving zwiki.org spam defense ?

Darn it --simon, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:41:18 -0700 reply
Note the pages will have the "noindex" meta tag for another 10 hours yet, so the spammer should get no pagerank benefit from this.

Spam Defence --PeterMerel --PeterMerel, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:37:41 -0700 reply
I really like the no name <-> no spam thing. As for alternatives there is of course WikiWiki:ManaMana, but that seems rather out of the zwiki mode. How about you filter all URIs? out of pages when the spiders come? Really, just filter out any text with a .TLD in it. Or if that's too much work just double-link 'em - make a URL that points to a robots.txt protected link server so the spiders simply don't go there. Use a bit of ajax to eliminate the 2nd click for humans. Or just don't save edits that have URIs? in 'em ...

... --PeterMerel, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:39:16 -0700 reply
Um, WikiWiki:ManaMana - the InterWiki regex could use a tweak ...

... --Simon Michael, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:22:36 -0700 reply
PeterMerel wrote:

Um, WikiWiki:ManaMana - the InterWiki regex could use a tweak ...
Yes.. at some point we found some real-life urls (that mattered) ending with a comma, so we allowed it in RemoteWikiURL's. But it seems a bad choice! There's a nice little exercise for someone who wants to get into Zwiki hacking (hint: Regexps.py)

Re spam - IIRC recent moves have been:

Next simple move might be

which will have some effect for some period of time.

I wonder what Ward does.

What Ward Does --PeterMerel, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:56:40 -0700 reply
Last time I checked, Ward's setup was a combination of stewards - a group of a dozen folk who have paid for the privilege of mucking out drains IP blocks - massive, towering, granite IP blocks. A mighty fortress of IP blocks! * tools to auto-rollback/auto-block upon spam detection. Spammers are weird in that they usually stick to fairly regexable patterns.

Grr. Refuse to learn stx ... --PeterMerel, Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:58:06 -0700 reply
Ward's also very open, Simon - you should just ask him.

Open issues --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 20 Apr 2006 00:20:31 -0700 reply
...go Simon! ;)

I haven't had any time yet to do what I promised, but at least it's good to see it was an incentive to others...

WikiVandalism --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:32:46 -0700 reply
I just reverted changes to WikiMail and ConfiguringWikiMail. This was a simple case of vandalism, someone set a username (test), tested the possibility of editing a page and then decided to replace a page with one full of links. A pity that the all-edits mailout is broken.

WikiVandalism --Simon Michael, Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:27:01 -0700 reply
Indeed.. I'm sorry, I'll look at your bug updates asap. I haven't thought of a pleasant way to clean up that spammer either. Not feeling very smart the last day or two..

WikiVandalism --Simon Michael, Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:30:38 -0700 reply
PS anyone wants to help out - a good way to get things moving, is to get more bodies on #zwiki and talk to me. Really. :) Otherwise I may end up learning more squeak/haskell/lisp or (heavens) doing some of actual paying plone work/sysadmin that right now is turning my brain to mush! :/

AnnoyingQuote --EmmaLaurijssens, Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:12:37 -0700 reply
Why did the AnnoyingQuote code on FrontPage break?

Darn it --Simon Michael, Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:39:24 -0700 reply
A week ago I wrote : "Note the pages will have the "noindex" meta tag for another 10 hours yet, so the spammer should get no pagerank benefit from this."

Ho ho.. once this clock was running, I knew Life would get busy. I didn't find time to repair it yet - partly because I have no sufficiently pleasant, practical and scalable way of doing so - and the spam is still there. FrontPage now, too. Just two incidents, but I need to save my productive hours for paying work just now and so the spammers are temporarily ahead of me at zwiki.org. Here's my rough list of todos:

I have made a start by updating the LinkSpam page and writing this post.

you may need to update your subscription --Simon Michael, Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:03:30 -0700 reply
Hi all.. I just fixed the bug below. If you were subscribed to zwiki.org (or any of the joyful.com wikis) with the "all edits" checkbox, I'm pretty sure you have not been receiving all edits for some time. Sorry about that. To fix your subscription now, unsubscribe and re-subscribe, checking the checkbox again. It should stick this time.

Note: if you just need to check edits occasionally, you can use the gmane.comp.web.zope.zwiki.edits newsgroup .

An unfortunate bug in that it loses the "all edits" setting of all subscribers, as soon as one person unsubscribes. The edits subscription preference had no tests until now.

Good news: adding tests is simpler now after testgeddon, and adding tests for mail subscription is quite straightforward. If you want to help, just add a method to Mail_tests.py and then make test.
forwarded from http://zwiki.org/1254AllEditsSubscriptionPreferenceGetsForgotten#msg20060427115410-0700@zwiki.org

dtml in rst question --Simon Michael, Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:42:49 -0700 reply
Stefan, I'm trying to get your DTML in RST patch working - to get DTML working, do you use RST's raw directive or something ?

Re: Thinkubator: a zwiki customization --John Maxwell, Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:33:43 -0700 reply
Little bit of follow up. After you mentioned how show_subtopics is supposed to work, I had another look at it and re-implemented our bloggish listing within the show_subtopics architecture. But, I made the appearance of subtopics on any given page dependent on a boolean property on the page itself, so certain pages act like blog listings and other pages act like wiki pages. This is a cleaner model than before. Thanks for the input.

dtml in rst question --Stefan Rank, Sat, 29 Apr 2006 06:32:38 -0700 reply
on 28.04.2006 20:42 Simon Michael said the following:

Stefan, I'm trying to get your DTML in RST patch working - to get DTML working, do you use RST's raw directive or something ?

yes, exactly. An example copied off my FrontPage:

   .. raw:: html

      <!-- annoying quote -->
      <div align="right" style="font-size:small; font-style:italic;
       padding:3px; width:80%; text-align:right; white-space: pre;">
      <dtml-let maxquotesize="600"
       quotes="_.string.split(AnnoyingQuote.text(),'\n\n')"
       quote="quotes[-1]" >
      <dtml-if "_.len(quote) < maxquotesize">
      <dtml-var "wikilink(quote)">
      <dtml-else>
      <dtml-var "wikilink(quote[:maxquotesize])+'... <a
       href=AnnoyingQuote#bottom>more</a>'">
      </dtml-if><a href="AnnoyingQuote/editform">*</a>
      </dtml-let>
      </div>

hope this helps.