How to mount zwiki in separate ZODB to keep history --Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:50:08 -0700 reply

I use zwiki within plone2.1. Whenever I pack the Data.fs, also the zwiki history is gone. That is why I thought of mounting the zwiki (/myplone/wiki) in a separate ZODB. Can I use an ordinary "zodb mount point" together with a Zope folder. Or should I install http://plone.org/products/mountfolder ?

Also I tried with an ordinary Zope Folder first, but ran into problems. Here is what I did:

<zodb_db wiki-never-to-be-packed-to-keep-history>
   # Main FileStorage database
   <filestorage>
     path $INSTANCE/var/Data-wiki-never-to-be-packed-to-keep-history.fs
   </filestorage>
   mount-point /myplone/wiki
</zodb_db>

Then I renamed /myplone/wiki to /myplone/wiki-old (which also caused an unnecessary catalog indexing). Then I created the mount point /myplone/wiki and also ticked "Create new folders if the mounted objects don't yet exist". Then I went /myplone/wiki-old and chose "Select all" and "Copy", and went to /myplone/wiki, but there was no "Paste"-Button. Any ideas?

jens

How to mount zwiki in separate ZODB to keep history --Wed, 02 Aug 2006 18:41:53 -0700 reply

Hi Jens.. zope.org has been doing this for years. I haven't done it so don't have specific advice for you, but I'm 90% sure all you need is built in to modern Zope, so extra products shouldn't be needed.

earlier questions --Thu, 03 Aug 2006 01:45:12 -0700 reply

These questions weren't answered, so asking them 1 more time just in case anyone's listening / feels like responding.. ;-)

  1. At the moment it seems you have to call a page FrontPage in order for it to actually be the front page. However, since Plone 2.1, there's been an option on the display dropdown - "Change contentitem as defaultview". An other content type such as a newsitem, you could make the default view for your folder regardless of its name. ZWiki pages don't get listed as possible things to be set as the default view. Any plans to support this in future?
  2. Any plans to incorporate LaTeXWiki?? into ZWiki releases so it s not a patch that has to be applied, or is that difficult to do?

earlier questions --Thu, 03 Aug 2006 07:17:32 -0700 reply

> 1. At the moment it seems you have to call a page FrontPage in order for it to actually be the front page. IIRC any name that's been configured as a Plone folder default view name will work.. > However, since Plone 2.1, there's been an option on the display dropdown - "Change contentitem as defaultview". An other content type such as a newsitem, you could make the default view for your folder regardless of its name. ZWiki pages don't get listed as possible things to be set as the default view. Any plans to support this in future? > Sounds like a good idea - could someone investigate why we don't appear in that list ? > 2. Any plans to incorporate LaTeXWiki?? into ZWiki releases so it s not a patch that has to be applied

I guess so. There is a recent pluginised version is at http://zwiki.org/LatexWiki . It should be straightforward to ship this with Zwiki. If we do, will anyone maintain it ? Bob McElrath? has stepped down as developer-maintainer.

How to mount zwiki in separate ZODB to keep history --Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:22:05 -0700 reply

What is zope.org running? plone or any CMF stuff?

How to mount zwiki in separate ZODB to keep history --Thu, 03 Aug 2006 13:19:04 -0700 reply

A very old version of plone, IIRC.

earlier questions --Fri, 04 Aug 2006 03:05:26 -0700 reply

Simon thanks a lot for the response. Regarding 1 , it may be that ZWiki pages need to have Plone workflow and/or be AT-based for this to work. To make ZWiki Archetypes based would probably be a big job especially migration, but maybe this is the way to go eventually....

The problem with finding a maintainer for LaTexWiki? is not knowing how complex or robust it is. I think LatexWiki would get a lot more use if it shipped with ZWiki. Most people don't want to apply a patch for a live system - whole thing seems wobbly. Perhaps, as long as it doesn't interfere with ZWiki, LatexWiki should be added into ZWiki with a caveat that its not guaranteed to always work or be supported. The likelihood then is more people would try it out and someone who does a lot of LaTeX? for their work and has a reason to delve into it, may emerge as maintainer so that it would get supported.

earlier questions --Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:16:13 -0700 reply

> Hi again, > Regarding 1 , it may be that ZWiki pages need to have Plone workflow and/or be AT-based for this to work. > I don't think so; I'd guess it's simpler than that.. > To make ZWiki Archetypes based would probably be a big job especially migration, but maybe this is the way to go eventually....

It won't be all AT based, as it needs to work outside CMF/Plone also. You could make a variant AT-based page which is used inside Plone, but you'd lose the ability to move wikis in and out of plone sites. I don't know what the advantage would be right now, there might be some.

Re LatexWiki (still calling it that, but Bob McE? might reuse that name in future) - I will do as you suggest and ship the plugin with main Zwiki going forward. I agree it's more likely to thrive that way.

front page re-org --Mon, 07 Aug 2006 02:13:02 -0700 reply

I've updated http://zwiki.org/FrontPage for the umpteenth time - feedback welcome.

winzip error --Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:38:13 -0700 reply

I downloaded ZWiki-0.55.0 file to my C:Zope-InstanceProducts? directory and tried to unzip it this location but encountered the following winzip error: Error reading header after processing 0 entries.

Any ideas why this error was encountered?

earlier questions --Tue, 08 Aug 2006 04:18:07 -0700 reply

> Re LatexWiki - I will do as you suggest and ship the plugin with main Zwiki going forward. I agree it's more likely to thrive that way.

Great. :-) I think if you do that, ZWiki would become more useful to Maths. Physics, Economics etc departments of Universities, who often use Plone. This would get more people using ZWiki and be a nice move. An alternative is for example using LaTeX? in MediaWiki?, but when you already have a Plone site thats already officially supported, i.e authenticated against LDAP, branded, performance tuned etc, being able to simply plug in ZWiki with LaTex? support is attractive.

plone doc updates --Tue, 08 Aug 2006 07:21:32 -0700 reply

Unless you read the http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.zope.zwiki.edits newsgroup, you might not notice this: I've been cleaning up the Plone/CMF docs a little bit.

The Zwiki and Plone page is part of the AdministratorsGuide. I've renamed it to Zwiki and Plone, archived the old discussion, updated the pro/con section, added some tips and a Q&A section, added the note up top for orientation, and I've linked it right at the start of the FrontPage documentation box to make it easier to find.

It has been hard to place this page; I expect it will stay in the admin guide but perhaps move nearer the start. Right before the upgrading page ?

As always, help is welcome. Cheers - S

donate button --Tue, 08 Aug 2006 07:27:38 -0700 reply

I've added a donate button to the FrontPage, at last, and updated the http://zwiki.org/ZwikiFunding page it points to. I'd like to attract people to click and read the content of that page even if they don't intend to pay; I'd like to find a more attractive/clickable button.

Zwiki & Plone --Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:00:44 -0700 reply

Greetings all!

I am reminded that there has long been some anti-wiki and anti-zwiki feeling in the Plone world.

If I'm completely honest, there used to be some of that going the other way too (intended in a constructive spirit..). Let me make clear at this point, in case there's any doubt:

I ♥ Plone and Zwiki ♥ Plone!

Now: I would love to see more criticisms, and responses from people who have spent time with Zwiki, expressed clearly in the public mailing lists (eg plone lists). There may some weaknesses we can identify, reprioritise, or explain.

I see how we are responsible for/can address some of it. Since the beginning Zwiki has been running uphill to be a better Plone citizen, but (a) there have been some tricky technical incompatibilities, (b) for speed reasons Zwiki in Plone was never my preferred configuration, (c) there's been lots to do, few developers, and I had to prioritise. So there are some rough patches which don't have the same level of polish.

It's also a complex and very flexible product, combined intimately in infinitely varied ways with two very complex and flexible products (plone & zope) on various platforms in various browsers for a wide variety of people across 5-6 years of versions, upgrades, upstream bugs and workarounds and... if you ask me, with the available resources we've done pretty darn well!

Over the years I have been working consistently to make the Plone support more maintainable and more central to the product, and have made good progress (unifying the separate sets of skin templates was a big win; docs are evolving to serve Plone users better). As Plone has become better and better, too, I'm happier spending time in it. I think we're in a good position to add that last N% of polish for Zwiki in Plone. I'm most interested in software that's reliable and Just Works (http://zwiki.org/ZwikiPrinciples).

Thank you, all of you who've used, tested, documented, bugreported, patched, built and funded. Now I'm sending out a new call to you who know Plone and care about having wiki available for it. Shall we make Zwiki known for its reliability, polish and excellence in Plone ?

Best, -Simon

http://zwiki.org http://joyful.com

PS and I'm about to start an honest-to-god job, so I'll need your help even more.

Zwiki & Plone --Simon Michael, Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:17:03 -0700 reply

PS to zwiki.org and gmane.comp.web.zope.zwiki readers - this was a cc from the plone-devel (and plone-users) lists. One of those may be the best place to reply.

new proposal page, RFC --simon, Wed, 09 Aug 2006 11:28:59 -0700 reply

A heads-up for GeneralDiscussion page subscribers - I posted a new proposal at http://zwiki.org/HideHierarchyByDefaultInPlone (and I'm now considering it even for standard wikis.) What do you think ? Please follow up there.

Why is zwiki.org slower than our own plone-based Wiki? ;-) --nd51, Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:36:11 -0700 reply

I've been surprised by some comments about the speed of ZWiki within Plone, as ZWiki's performance seems to me perfectly acceptable in Plone. For example check out these: http://www2.le.ac.uk/projects/impala/impala-wiki/FrontPage/ and http://www2.le.ac.uk/institution/merlin (apologies for the hideous image map added to some of those pages - we're in desperate need of a forceful Wiki-keeper).

However, zwiki.org itself seems sluggish of late, even though thats only sitting on top of Zope. This may suggest that while our Wikis aren't small, zwiki.org has grown to a size where some performance bottleneck has raised its head. Or perhaps its because we've got Apache caching, and pound load-balancing twin zeo clients. If ZWiki is sluggish just like un-tuned Plone is sluggish, then it might be said ZWiki has no special performance issues in itself, and to make it work fast enough you simply do exactly the same performance tuning to Plone that you must do anyway. In which case, anyone who's using Plone sensibly and performance tuning, will NOT encounter any extra speed issues as result of also using ZWiki. Thoughts anyone?

Re: Why is zwiki.org slower than our own plone-based Wiki? ;-) --Simon Michael, Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:46:18 -0700 reply

Good question! Here are some notes. We should make a page focussed on this topic if there isn't one already.

nd51 wrote: > http://www2.le.ac.uk/projects/impala/impala-wiki/FrontPage/ and > http://www2.le.ac.uk/institution/merlin

I like that plone skin.

I was happy to find http://www.cpsr.org/membership/tech/wiki ! But didn't find the actual wiki. Have you seen it ?

> > However, zwiki.org itself seems sluggish of late, even though thats only sitting on top of Zope.

You're quite right.

The site has been basically neglected and left to run on it's own for the recent 2 months, the longest period yet. It's held up well, except it's slower than it should be; I've noticed this too. I'm working my way towards taking a close look to see what can be done.

> This may suggest that while our Wikis aren't small, zwiki.org has grown to a size where some performance bottleneck has raised its head.

zwiki.org has long been slower than Zwiki should be, which is unfortunate. Here's my understanding: the reason essentially is that it runs on a very RAM-limited VPS. I currently use plan 1 at http://aktiom.net/vps-plans/ , which means I have set zope's RAM ceiling at around 200M (increased to 250M yesterday).

This isn't enough for zope to run multiple big wikis, plone sites etc. (cf http://joyful.com) and keep all objects warmed up in the ZODB cache for each of multiple threads. (zope.conf currently specifies 2 zserver threads and a zodb cache-size of 20000 objects, for reference.) People typically give production zope servers a G or more of RAM. I think this site would run much better with that much breathing room. I have seen large zwikis on other servers running fast.

Also try some of the smaller wikis on this server (see http://joyful.com) - they should feel much faster.

> Or perhaps its because we've got Apache caching, and pound load-balancing twin zeo clients.

Apache caching is also set up here, but in past years it has been flaky, and I have a feeling we're not yet running the version that's supposed to fix all that, so I'm not certain it's providing maximum benefit. We're currently at apache 2.0.55. 2.2 had problems when I tried it a few months back.

Just one zeo client here. For reference, the server machine has four CPUs?. Possibly if ram were unlimited it would make sense to run more clients.

> If ZWiki is sluggish just like un-tuned Plone is sluggish, then it might be said ZWiki has no special performance issues in itself

Out of the box, a standard Zwiki should be decently fast, on any zope server, period. Zippy even. I think and hope many of you have experienced this.

A zwiki using the Plone skin will be slower (see note at Zwiki and Plone) but still should be about as fast as anything else in your plone site.

Zwiki will start contributing slowness when you have

There are also a small number of cases where Zwiki is always slow - the big one that comes to mind is when changing a large page (>100K) that uses text formatting rules. Parsing for links etc. and especially applying those markup rules just takes a while. A rename operation that touches many other backlink pages is another slow operation.

Also, there are a (hopefully small) number of things an admin should do to get best performance when a wiki grows large. See especially the catalog note at http://zwiki.org/Configuring .

> and to make it work fast enough you simply do exactly the same performance tuning to Plone that you must do anyway. > In which case, anyone who's using Plone sensibly and performance tuning, will NOT encounter any extra speed issues as result of also using ZWiki.

That's always been my experience. There is an easy way to find out which slowness comes from Zwiki and which from the Plone skin: run a recent Zwiki version, use the http://zwiki.org/QuickReference#access-keys to switch skins, and compare performance.

To measure rendering performance I use apache bench commands like so:

# quickly measure page rendering time, assuming not much other traffic
ab -n 10 http://wiki/Page

# render just the page content without any skin
# the standard zwiki skin should be quite close to this
ab -n 10 'http://wiki/Page?bare=1'

# 4-way concurrency, exercising your multiple zserver threads
ab -n 10 -c 4 http://wiki/Page

Having said ALL THAT - zwiki.org's basic speed, eg viewing a page, has slipped from where it was. Perhaps the increasing page count has maxed out my cache configuration, as you say. Or perhaps traffic has increased. Possibly even the machine our VPS shares with other customers has become more busy.

Phew.. enough for now. Cc'ing my blog (Hi, blog-fans! Still alive!)

latexwiki & mathaction progress, about plugins --Simon Michael, Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:54:39 -0700 reply

FYI - cc'ing from the axiom-devel newsgroup:

Greetings all.

Bob - I'll see your scare quotes and Microsoft/Intel characterisation, and raise you Working Code.. ;-)

Here's where I'm at with LatexWiki and MathAction. I updated LatexWiki 0.42 to be compatible with current Zwiki. http://joyful.com/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=latexwiki;a=summary

Now I've copied that into the Zwiki product as an internal plugin. http://joyful.com/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=ZWiki;a=filehistory;f=/plugins This is running on zwiki.org at the moment.

I'm following the same process with the latest MathAction. Here it is updated to work with current Zwiki, at least to the point of rendering LaTeX?: http://joyful.com/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=mathaction;a=summary I have this installed as an internal plugin but it's not as yet added to the Zwiki repo.

This mathaction plugin is still using it's own older version of LatexWiki. I haven't made any attempt to refactor it to use the newer latexwiki plugin, but this may be a good thing to work towards. And that looks a lot easier now. In the past I tried to reconcile the two by pulling patches between your repos, but the differences were too large for me to resolve.

About internal vs. external plugins - a lot of projects seem to end up organised this way: many independent plugins, but distributed en masse. At the cost of some independence, it ensures users always have compatible code, solving a whole lot of problems with version skew and backwards compatibility, and also makes the overall codebase more maintainable and likely to be kept up to date. I think it's a good approach for zwiki plugins and pagetypes.

Should I bundle a mathaction plugin with Zwiki ? I'm not sure yet. I might check it in, refactor it and split it out again later. Anyway, ideally I'll achieve a clean up-to-date mathaction that's enticing enough for Bill to switch to. If not, well nothing lost.

Comments welcome - Simon

Re: heads-up, code updates --Simon Michael, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 00:52:19 -0700 reply

Thanks to Bob McElrath?, Bill Page, some predecessors whose names I need, and a bit of integration by yours truly, we now have two new plugins which will ship with Zwiki 0.56:

These work rather well and I'm excited to have them as well-supported features. See http://zwiki.org/MathActionTests and subtopics.

Simon Michael wrote:

> I did that, and made more changes, and it's running reasonably well
> now at zwiki.org. See http://zwiki.org/MathActionTests (and subtopics).
>
> This means you can check out the latest Zwiki and get latex, axiom,
> reduce, maxima, & pamphlets up and running without too much pain, at
> least on my debian system. All helper programs are assumed to be in
> /usr/bin, axiom.sty should be copied to
> /usr/local/share/texmf/tex/latex/ (and mktexlsr should be run).
>
> All: I learned about and played with a lot of cool stuff today. Thanks
> for all this great work!

Re: heads-up, code updates --nd51, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 01:51:05 -0700 reply

I think this is great news. In particular, being able to support LaTeX? Wiki pages within Plone seems to me a very cool feature and this is great that it will ship with ZWiki and not have to be a patch.

Re: Why is zwiki.org slower than our own plone-based Wiki? ;-) --nd51, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:09:21 -0700 reply

I'd think having only 250Mb RAM would grind Plone to a halt. Whether thats insufficient for just ZWiki on Zope, harder to tell. One other thing though, turning up the ZODB cache can be detrimental, if there's not enough RAM to support it. We found on our live site, 15000 objects in ZODB would slow the box by eventually causing it to swap as the cache filled. On the advice of our Unix gurus we turned it down to 12000 objects (twin ZEO clients 4 threads each) leaving 20% memory free for the O/S to play with, and this has given OK performance. PS Glad you liked our plone skin. ;-) PPS CPSR Wiki - maybe its private thats why you can't find it?

Re: heads-up, code updates --EmmaLaurijssens, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:14:09 -0700 reply

Which reminds me...

I still haven't given up getting LatexWiki to work on Windows. Is that a good or a bad thing?

Re: Why is zwiki.org slower than our own plone-based Wiki? ;-) --jmax, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:10:03 -0700 reply

nd51 wrote:

I'd think having only 250Mb RAM would grind Plone to a halt. Whether thats insufficient for just ZWiki on Zope, harder to tell.

This brings up an admin matter that is probably worth mentioning on this list. ZWiki, because of its revision-tracking feature, and the fact that this all lives in the ZODB, does tend to bloat out the database (and therefore Zope's RAM needs) pretty quickly on a busy site. Every edit somebody makes means the db gets a little bigger.

The solution I've employed quite successfully is simply to pack the db regularly. I use a simple nightly cron job that pokes the "pack" button (acting on objects older than 30 days). This keeps the database in check really nicely as well as keeping a decent revision history. After a month of 'bloating', the db growth evens out to something much more in line with the content itself.

Re: heads-up, code updates --Simon Michael, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:14:40 -0700 reply

That's a good thing, keep going. If I were you I'd switch to the latexwiki plugin version though. Patches to simplify it and make it more portable are very welcome.

Re: Why is zwiki.org slower than our own plone-based Wiki? ;-) --Simon Michael, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:58:57 -0700 reply

I also tend to do 30-day packs (but infrequently).

I did not think zwiki pages were a significant source of ZODB bloat, compared to other zope objects. But I could be wrong.

It might help to do what zope.org does - use a zodb mount point and keep wiki pages (only) in a separate Data.fs (and see how that grows).

Re: Why is zwiki.org slower than our own plone-based Wiki? ;-) --Simon Michael, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:00:18 -0700 reply

PS and for extra precision, try that experiment both with and without the use of a wiki Catalog .

Re: Why is zwiki.org slower than our own plone-based Wiki? ;-) --jmax, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:04:30 -0700 reply

Everything is relative... my 30-day pack strategy was in response to my ZODB quickly getting up in the >500MB range, and now is comfortably under 200. ZWiki is the only thing I'm running (though I have a lot of archives). Compared to other kinds of Zope objects, Zwiki pages/changes may be small; nevertheless, frequent edits make for rapid qrowth.

Re: heads-up, code updates --Bill Page, Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:01:14 -0700 reply

EmmaLaurijssens wrote:

> getting LatexWiki to work on Windows

I also think this is a good thing. Can you describe what problems you have encountered on Windows?

Re: heads-up, code updates --EmmaLaurijssens, Tue, 15 Aug 2006 02:03:15 -0700 reply

IIRC, the first (and last) time I tried, I found a couple of lines of code which perform some file locking or something similar. It was a Unix-only method. I'm not at my PC at the moment but I'll check asap. Ideally, we should get this to work without depending on 3rd party libraries like MS's Unix services for Windows or Cygwin.

Re: heads-up, code updates --EmmaLaurijssens, Tue, 15 Aug 2006 02:18:31 -0700 reply

I'll post my findings on LatexWikiOnWindowsDiscussion.

Merging two ZWikis?? --Stefan Franke, Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:14:28 -0700 reply

I'm about to set up a ZWiki for use in our specification and development intranet. Currently our specification documents are reST files checked into SVN together with the sources, but it'd be much nicer to have a wiki for more fine-grained and spontaneous editing.

One of the features we're going to miss though is the ability to work offline on the texts and then merge the changes back into SVN. Unfortunately it's mainly my boss who loves doing this, because he spends quite some time on long flights.

I'm looking for an automated way to achieve this with a ZWiki: Making a local copy, working on the files (not even necessarily through the Wiki interface, editing the reST documents would be fine) and then merging them back into the main wiki.

Any ideas? I pretty much lost track of Zope products available, possibly keeping all the files in some kind of external folder would be an option? Then we could merge on file system level.

silly question about rst hyperlinks --LarryP?, Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:53:57 -0700 reply

I just installed 0.55 on a stock Zope 2.9.4 instance. works great! EXCEPT-- I can't seem to figure out how to create an external hyperlink using RST. Obviously, if I just use http://somerandomlink.com that works... but what if I want the linked text to be e.g., "click here"?

if I use:

.. _`click here`:http://somerandomelink.com, I get nothing.

silly question about rst hyperlinks --LarryP?, Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:25:55 -0700 reply

ok... answered my own question. sortof... I guess:

`link name <http://www.somelinkaddress.com>`_

is the preferred way to do this. Still not sure why the other notation above doesn't work when it's described as a valid method in all the RST docs I read.

Merging two ZWikis?? --Simon Michael, Sat, 26 Aug 2006 06:51:42 -0700 reply

Stefan, one idea might be to use External Editor. Configure it for your boss with save_interval=0, and use_locks on or off as you prefer. Boss external-edits the page(s) before a trip, keeps the editor open and works on it during flight, quits the editor (saving the page) when back on the network.

silly question about rst hyperlinks --Simon Michael, Sat, 26 Aug 2006 06:53:24 -0700 reply

> if I use .. click here:http://somerandomelink.com, I get nothing. > I don't think that's valid RST syntax. Are you sure about those docs ?

re: silly question about rst hyperlinks --lprikockis, Mon, 28 Aug 2006 06:52:48 -0700 reply

hmmm... I was following this link: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html#external-hyperlink-targets which I got to from the RestructuredText page on this site. But maybe I misunderstood how these various forms are meant to be used.

0.56 released, easier committing --Simon Michael, Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:17:10 -0700 reply

Hi all,

Sorry to be so silent lately. I want to tell you that 0.56 was released on the 2nd, pretty much on schedule, and also that I spent a day on easier darcs access and finally got the mail setup all working.

I've rewritten http://zwiki.org/DarcsRepos , please check it out and try sending some patches. Feedback from first-time committers is very useful. I would love to have 20 or 50 of you send a patch. :) ZWiki/skins/zwiki/HelpPage.dtml and ZWiki/wikis/basic/FrontPage.stx, for example, are easy places to make small improvements.

Best wishes, -Simon

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --jstubbs, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 07:40:56 -0700 reply

My wiki is gradually transitioning from Mediawiki to Zwiki. So far, I have done the conversion of the pages by hand, but I would like to know if there is a better option. A second mediawiki site would also like to transition to zwiki, but neither him nor me want to do each page by hand. Does anyone know of either a mediawiki parser suitable for zwiki (like the current moinmoin parser) or, is there an external translator I could use?

Thanks, BritOnTour

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --Simon Michael, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 07:48:51 -0700 reply

I don't, but I would like to.

What's the best process you've found so far for moving a page from MW to Zwiki ?

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --jstubbs, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 07:57:37 -0700 reply

The only method I've used so far is to have the old mediawiki site open along side the new zwiki site. Copy the mediawiki text across, then modify the syntax to match the moinmoin markup. Its very tedious, so I do maybe a page or two every couple of days. Images are a bit awkward as the image upload tool doesnt create the link in moinmoin format (its structured text i think) and it closes the edit page, so I have to re-edit the page and modify the link. Perhaps this has something to do with how the images are imported into zwiki.

Any other ideas?? (BritOnTour)

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --Simon Michael, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:20:53 -0700 reply

Yes, plenty of ideas, but not much experience on my part - this is a good dialog for us to have, I'm sure we can make it smoother.

I see that the topic of migration from wiki X to zwiki (and the reverse for that matter) is a big one. Mediawiki -> zwiki is our focus here, and I get the feeling this alone may need a page of notes.

So you're going to moinmoin markup (what influenced this choice, out of interest ?), and you're copying by hand in the web browser from edit form to edit form. Also you're copying images, by (I guess) saving from mediawiki to your local disk and then uploading to zwiki (and that's not working too well).

Do you have access to the machine where mediawiki is running ? Does mediawiki store its text and images as files, or in a db ? I don't even remember.

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --d2m, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:39:07 -0700 reply

David Diberri created HTML::WikiConverter , a tool to convert HTML to different wiki formats.

A MoinMoin converter is available. There is also an Example Conversion Utility at http://diberri.dyndns.org/wikipedia/html2wiki/ to test the conversion quality.

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --jstubbs, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 08:55:30 -0700 reply

I looked at structured text, and restructured text, but they looked a little quirky to me (maybe because of my past experience with mediawiki), so I chose moinmoin as it looked the closest match to mediawiki and would hopefully reduce the translation task.

Yep, I'm copying from one edit window to the other and importing the images from the location they were stored for the mediawiki site. The server for both wiki's is the same pc sitting on my desk. The image upload is just an inconvenience really. Once I've fixed the link, the images are fine, but it would be nice to add formating to the images, like alignment, a border maybe, adjust the size of big images to screen width.

Media wiki stores its pages in a database (MySQL?). I think the images are just copied into a local folder though. I know there is a way to export the pages wrapped in some XML that may be useful.

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --Simon Michael, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 10:16:41 -0700 reply

jstubbs wrote: > I chose moinmoin as it looked the closest match to mediawiki

That might be right. As for quirks, zwiki's moinmoin support might have a few. (Or not - it is the moinmoin code after all, though with macros disabled.) Restructured text (and STX in the past) is more actively maintained than the moinmoin page type. It should be relatively quirk free (there are some: wiki-linking and RST fight with each other in certain situations.)

> Media wiki stores its pages in a database (MySQL?). I think the images are just copied into a local folder though. I know there is a way to export the pages wrapped in some XML that may be useful.

I see. I guess you could extract the text by webcrawling - there's probably MW bots to do this. But the XML export might be even better. You'd need a script to translate this into something approaching your target markup. Then, once you have the files ready, one per page, you could use ZWiki/tools/zwikiimport.py to convert them into zwiki pages.

The images you could maybe upload quicker by ftp or webdav. On my platform, the nautilus file manager works well for this - open a window on the zope wiki folder, drag all the image files there.

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --jstubbs, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 10:45:11 -0700 reply

That all sounds like a lot of fun!! Can you elaborate on how to FTP files into zwiki? From what I understand, you are saying just use a file manager to browse the zwiki folder and copy the images there. Doesnt sound like ftp to me.

How hard would it be to create a mediawiki parser for zwiki? I'd be willing to help, but wouldnt know where to start.

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --simon, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:23:07 -0700 reply

That's correct, but it must be a file manager that supports ftp or webdav upload. On windows, explorer should work. But any ftp client will do. The path will be something like ftp://yourusername@yourmachine:8021/sitefolder/subfolder . You may need to enable the ftp server in your zope.conf first.

I can't spend time on either a mediawiki page type or an offline mediawiki markup converter right now. The latter would be the place to start I think. Possibly it should use the proposed wikicreole interchange format. But I would try to get a sensible repeatable process for simply moving the media wiki content into zwiki unchanged - that would be a big step forward.

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --simon, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:38:00 -0700 reply

PS - not that you suggested I should spend time on it. :) I think a mediawiki page type does make a lot of sense though. To give more detail: if you don't mind doing some cut and paste type python coding it's pretty easy to add a new page type. Just copy one of the files in ZWiki/pagetypes, say rst.py, change some strings, maybe add it to __init__.py and you've got a new page type. Next step would be to replace the call to RST with a call to some mediawiki parsing/formatting code. I wouldn't be surprised if there is python code like this out there.

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --simon, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:42:36 -0700 reply

Tip: dig around at http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MediaWiki

Importing pages from old mediawiki site --simon, Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:43:55 -0700 reply

http://www.merten-home.de/FreeSoftware/media4moin/media.py.txt

Can Zwiki pick up the fullname of the Plone user info for page author? --hideo at yokohama, Sun, 17 Sep 2006 21:37:26 -0700 reply

I use ZWiki within a plone 2.1.x site. ZWiki picks the user ID info as the page author, but many Plone page types (ArcheTypes? based pages especially) uses the fullname as the author of the page, and that name is clickable. I'd like to know if there is some way I can customize ZWiki that way.

Can Zwiki pick up the fullname of the Plone user info for page author? --Simon Michael, Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:00:44 -0700 reply

Hello - that would require a code change. setLastEditor (Editing.py) calls usernameFrom (Utils.py); see the docstring there for more details.

I think you could change usernameFrom to do this and it might work out well. You should grep for all the places that call it though, see if the change would cause problems for them, and test things out thoroughly. It would be good to hear what happens.

User Management --pedz, Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:35:16 -0700 reply

I have not used Wiki's much. I am investigating them becaues they look interesting. What I'm use to comes from the typical Forum where an anonymous user can view all of the content. He can also submit a request to create an account. That sends off an email which he replies to in order to confirm that he is a real person. At that point, the user can add content. It appears as if this is "not the Wiki way". But how do you control spam and malicious users?

Is there a module that I can plug in to give me the type of user management I just described?

User Management --EmmaLaurijssens, Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:38:43 -0700 reply

The easy way out is to use Zwiki inside Plone. Plone comes with user management tools pre-configured and IMHO it's the least cumbersome if you want your wiki users to identify themselves before modifying your wiki.

Plone ZWiki and Sidebars --tschaible, Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:33:49 -0700 reply

I can't get sidebars (Restructured Text maekup) to appear within a ZWiki page when I am viewing it through a Plone skin. If I switch back over to the standard ZWiki skin (Alt-MINUS), the sidebar shows up just fine.

I am using

Plone 2.5 Zope 2.9.2 ZWiki 0.56.0

Anyone know anything about this?

Plone ZWiki and Sidebars --Simon Michael, Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:03:20 -0700 reply

That's a plone thing.. left_slots and right_slots properties. There's more documentation on this at plone.org.

writing task --simon, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 02:37:08 -0700 reply

Could someone volunteer to add us to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software ?

writing task --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 03:13:54 -0700 reply

Sure.

writing task --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 03:14:52 -0700 reply

Sure.

Plone ZWiki and Sidebars --tschaible, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:06:53 -0700 reply

I think you might be misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not talking about the Plone slots, but rather the sidebar directive (.. sidebar::) you can use in ZWiki using Restructured text to make content appear in a box next to the text.

For an example of what I am trying to do, goto http://plone.demo.zwiki.org/TestingSidebar . It doesn't work in the Plone view, but switching it to the ZWiki skin (Hit Alt-MINUS, if you're using IE you need to hit enter), you'll see how it is supposed to look.

writing task --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:02:31 -0700 reply

...and done.

Plone ZWiki and Sidebars --Simon Michael, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:03:52 -0700 reply

Ah, I see what you mean. It needs the Restructured Text styles, which are included in zwiki's skin but not plone's. (Zwiki doesn't add any styles of its own when using the plone skin, I think.)

To work around, you could get the rst styles from http://zwiki.org/StyleSheet , about a third of the way down, and paste them into ploneCustom.css or similar. Does that help ?

firefox access keys changed ? --Simon Michael, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:11:51 -0700 reply

By the way, it appears as if firefox 2 now requires shift as well as alt for access keys, and the minus access key is no longer available - true ?

writing task --Simon Michael, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:49:17 -0700 reply

Thanks Frank! I made small adjustments to Data backend and Other notable features. Some trivia:

About the mail duplicates: that's twice I've got three emails from one of your comments. The event log shows

2006-09-28T03:14:52 INFO ZPublisher.Conflict ConflictError at

/VirtualHostBase?/http/zwiki.org:80/zwikib/VirtualHostRoot?/GeneralDiscussion/comment: database conflict error (oid 0xa9ea, class Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage.ZWikiPage) (2 conflicts (0 unresolved) since startup at Fri Sep 22 15:38:25 2006)

in other words, two comments came in at the same time. I can fix by installing the transaction-aware MaildropHost?, but that adds another degree of complexity to the setup here so I'll postpone that unless it happens more.

duplicates --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:00:49 -0700 reply

Strange... The first time i thought it was because of a flaky internet connection (GPRS while on a train driving at 100mph trhough a tunnel) and a Pocket IE glitch. But the other comment was submitted using more "traditional" means.

FYI: I'm on a moving train again, let's see what happens.

writing task --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:27:47 -0700 reply

Aargh... it looks like our changes to Wikipedia have been reverted!

writing task --Simon Michael, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:47:27 -0700 reply

I see the diff in page history. Maybe someone using an editing tool that doesn't check for edit conflicts ?

Maybe you can revert ? I don't remember my login.. or add a comment to the talk page.

writing task --EmmaLaurijssens, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:08:21 -0700 reply

I'll check later tonight. And otherwise the edit is still somewhere on my PC at work, I copied and pasted it to a text file as well, just in case...

writing task --Simon Michael, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:31:01 -0700 reply

An experienced man! :)

Plone ZWiki and Sidebars --tschaible, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:16:22 -0700 reply

Yup, that seems to do the trick, thanks for the help.

alternate skins --Simon Michael, Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:49:40 -0700 reply

betabug and I were chatting about nicer out of the box setup, including alternate skins. Please see the notes at http://nautica.demo.zwiki.org if you'd like to help us explore this.

writing task --EmmaLaurijssens, Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:57:41 -0700 reply

Resubmitted... Simon, I did not resubmit your edits, so there's still some work left for you.