Archived GeneralDiscussion.


comments:

Zwiki 0.39 released, news roundup --Simon Michael, Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:03:31 -0800 reply
What is it Zwiki is a Zope product for building wikis - a special kind of website that's easy for anyone to edit.

What's changed Search improvements, subtopics ordering, style tweaks, bugfixes.

News Development has been intermittently active. Code contributions this month included fixes from huron and from Stefan Rank. Bug reporting and discussion has been steady. Bug closing rate has been low. In the documentation department, there is a new User's Guide (http://zwiki.org/UsersGuide) and a cleaned-up front page at zwiki.org. The zwiki.org and zopewiki.org server's uptime has been good and performance has been reasonable.

The next Zwiki Bug Day is this friday, march 4th in #zwiki! Be there or be square. See http://zwiki.org/BugDay .

About the Zwiki project Zwiki was started in 1999 by Simon Michael and now receives changes from many contributors. It is released under the GNU GPL. A new version is released on the first of the month.

Links http://zwiki.org - home http://zwiki.org/ReleaseNotes - all release notes http://zwiki.org/KnownIssues - bugs you're likely to run into http://zwiki.org/IssueBrowser - all open bugs http://zwiki.org/IssueTracker - search and report new ones here http://zwiki.org/AboutZwikiDiscussion - the zwiki list, GeneralDiscussion page, etc. irc://irc.freenode.net/#zwiki - join us on IRC for quick help http://zwiki.org/ZwikiFunding - how to donate or sponsor a feature

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Zwiki 0.39.0 2005/03/01

Summary

Search improvements, subtopics ordering, style tweaks, bugfixes.

Upgrade notes

To remove excess search keywords from existing zwiki-containing plone sites, reindex and replace the Subject index and metadata in portal_catalog in the ZMI.

For best search functionality, you may need to /setupCatalog and/or upgrade or reconfigure your text indexes. See http://zwiki.org/1036 for more info.

If you have customized the standard skin templates or stylesheet, note a number of CSS ids are now classes.

Changes

Browsing

Editing

Page hierarchy

General - skins

spam attack cleaned up --Simon Michael, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:11:54 -0800 reply
A link spammer hit about 30 pages on zwiki.org last night. A different IP address hit a couple more pages this morning, including FrontPage. This somewhat DOS'd the server as well, because some of the spams included many square bracket links which slows things right down when that page is viewed.

I've cleaned up all the spam I could find. FYI to do this I reinstated the thorough brute force search on SearchPage? (still there but commented out again), made it display diff links, searched for necsi.com, opened all the diff links in firefox tabs, and clicked "revert this and all following changes" on each one.

I read Dean's spam link the other day, thanks. We certainly need the limit on number of external links per edit.

Just as a temporary measure I'm switching zwiki.org's mailout policy to edits, like the zope, zope 3 and ubuntu wikis. This isn't a spam solution but I am slightly concerned about stealth spam going in and never being found; I came across one yesterday. Also I'm interested to see how the list traffic feels that way. Let me know if you're finding it a problem.

spam attack cleaned up --Bob McElrath?, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:57:54 -0800 reply
Simon Michael [simon@joyful.com]? wrote:

A link spammer hit about 30 pages on zwiki.org last night. A different IP address hit a couple more pages this morning, including FrontPage. This somewhat DOS'd the server as well, because some of the spams included many square bracket links which slows things right down when that page is viewed.

We really need to speed this up, in any case.

I read Dean's spam link the other day, thanks. We certainly need the limit on number of external links per edit.

I'm wary of this. Every once in a while I run afoul of the lameness filters on slashdot, which are essentially the same thing...

What is a person to do if (s)he really has a legitimate reason for posting many URL's?

Just as a temporary measure I'm switching zwiki.org's mailout policy to edits, like the zope, zope 3 and ubuntu wikis. This isn't a spam solution but I am slightly concerned about stealth spam going in and never being found; I came across one yesterday. Also I'm interested to see how the list traffic feels that way. Let me know if you're finding it a problem.

On my wiki I am personally subscribed to "edits" but the list like-pages are comments only. I don't think everyone wants to see all edits. There have been many complaints about the mailing list operating in edits mode on the axiom wiki.

What about a kind of cooperative spam buster? For instance, when you discover and revert a spam, record the IP of the offender and enter it in a blacklist that is available somewhere on zwiki.org. Other zwikis could be configured to regularly download and use this blacklist. Other zwikis could add entries in a moderated fashion. You could even mail out the updated list upon changes, rather than have people download it on a regular basis (thereby reducing load on your server). You could also make the list of banned URL's public, and shared.

This is essentially RBL for wiki's. I'm assuming most spam originates from a small number of IP's. Am I correct in that?

spam attack cleaned up --Page, Bill, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:13:58 -0800 reply
On Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:58 PM Bob McElrath? wrote:

For instance, when you discover and revert a spam, record the IP of the offender and enter it in a blacklist that is available somewhere on zwiki.org. Other zwikis could be configured to regularly download and use this blacklist. Other zwikis could add entries in a moderated fashion. You could even mail out the updated list upon changes, rather than have people download it on a regular basis (thereby reducing load on your server). You could also make the list of banned URL's public, and shared.

This is essentially RBL for wiki's. I'm assuming most spam originates from a small number of IP's. Am I correct in that?

IP-based controls are no good because it seems to me that most spammers have no fixed ip address (or even spoofed ip addresses). At best you can blacklist whole ranges of ip addresses and that locks out both the good and the bad people.

Bill Page.

spam attack cleaned up --Simon Michael, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:37:37 -0800 reply

IP-based controls are no good because it seems to me that most spammers have no fixed ip address (or even spoofed ip addresses). At best you can blacklist whole ranges of ip addresses and that locks out both the good and the bad people.

Right. The recent outbreak came from just two different addresses, but they'll start using many if it helps them get around the defenses.

I'm very open to working patches for any kind of improvement. The limit on external links is very easy to add, and I rarely or never see legitimate edits where it would be noticed. So I think it's one good next step. Of course it's just another holding action, but will have some impact. There's no ultimate solution short of mass reeducation of the populace.

spam attack cleaned up --Bob McElrath?, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:15:13 -0800 reply
Simon Michael [simon@joyful.com]? wrote:

IP-based controls are no good because it seems to me that most spammers have no fixed ip address (or even spoofed ip addresses). At best you can blacklist whole ranges of ip addresses and that locks out both the good and the bad people.

Right. The recent outbreak came from just two different addresses, but they'll start using many if it helps them get around the defenses.

The idea is that the blacklist would be diseminated quickly
so that they can only hit one wiki before they're in everyone's blacklist.

Yes they could use multiple IP's, but before long every one of the comprimised machines they're using for attacks is blacklisted...and they have to find new ones.

spam attack cleaned up --Page, Bill, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:28:38 -0800 reply
On Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:38 PM Simon Michael wrote:

... There's no ultimate solution short of mass reeducation of the populace.

That also has been tried before and it hasn't worked out that well either ;)

My personal point of view is that most spam attacks (even the most recent one) are not that bad. Annoying yes, but one might just say that that is the price we pay for freedom. For the most part, ignoring spam is the best way to make it go away.

One of the really good things about ZWiki is that it is built on Zope and that provides a very simple and flexible Undo capability. Because of this the overall damage is minimal and it is relatively easy to recover from such attacks.

It seems to me that if people feel there is a need to devote resources to combat this problem, then they would be best spent in improving the Undo-ablity of changes to the wiki - allowing more flexible and easier ways to identify groups of changes that needed to be backed out etc. - more or less exactly what Simon actually did to correct the current problem.

Regards, Bill Page.

spam attack cleaned up --Page, Bill, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:28:55 -0800 reply

Yes they could use multiple IP's, but before long every one of the comprimised machines they're using for attacks is blacklisted...and they have to find new ones.

They can always find new ip addresses. IP addresses are not tied to a specific machine. These spammers could be using any ip address - including yours right now. More commonly they are using dynamically assigned ip addresses from with some fixed range provided by an isp or even a corporate dhcp server.

It does no good to blacklist based on ip address. You would only end up blacklisting entire isp's, corporate firewalls and a lot of people who had nothing to do with the attacks.

Bill Page.

problems with mailin --MarkFerrell?, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:14:34 -0800 reply
I attempt:

 # cat - | curl -F 'msg=<-' http://www.ocgnet.org/FMIOS/mailin
 From: me
 To: wiki
 Date: now
 Subject: test

 test

And I get:

 Traceback (innermost last):
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish
    * Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object
    * Module Products.ExternalMethod.ExternalMethod, line 224, in __call__
      __traceback_info__: ((<Folder instance at 8ca6bf8>, 'From: me\nTo: wiki\nDate: now\nSubject: test\n\ntest\n\n'), {}, None)
    * Module //var/lib/zope/zope-2_6_4/Products/ZWiki/Extensions/mailin.py, line 484, in mailin
    * Module //var/lib/zope/zope-2_6_4/Products/ZWiki/Extensions/mailin.py, line 147, in __init__
 AttributeError: next

problems with mailin --Simon Michael, Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:07:42 -0800 reply
Hi.. what Zwiki version ? (More precisely, what version of the mailin external method; it needs to be re-saved after a zwiki upgrade).

Also don't forget http://zopewiki.org/CompatibilityMatrix

problems with mailin --MarkFerrell?, Fri, 04 Mar 2005 07:16:36 -0800 reply
After poking around to find the answers to your question I noticed that looks like I had a whole collection of Zope instances floating around due to upgrades. For some reason the latest Zope instance still had some variables set in the global configs from an older zope instance and it was causing me problems.

All is better now: Zope 2.7.4, ZWiki 0.38.0, Python 2.3.4

Thanks

Comments breaking RST -- Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:34:12 -0800 reply
All my wiki pages are RST. When someone adds the first comment to a page, it generates an RST error ("Document or section may not begin with a transition"), seemingly because of the auto-formatting of the mailheaders in the comment source (and the initial HR line). Can't see where this s happening, exactly, nor can I find any mention of this problem on this site). Any help? -- JMax?

Comments breaking RST -- Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:52:11 -0800 reply
I believe this may be related to an issue I posted having to do with reST pages (without comments) ending in a list (see #1052 reST page ending in a list generates a parser warning). I think you'll see that if you edit the page with the error, and add 2 or more lines between the end of the page and the first comment heading, the parser warning will disappear. I think that the ends of reST pages may require a bit more care than for other page types.

ManagabilityWiki? --DeanG, Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:39:58 -0800 reply
Just noticed http://www.manageability.org/manageabilityWiki is a wiki. This site is popular lately for it's 3 part series on Why REST is Better

ManagabilityWiki? --Bob McElrath?, Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:10:54 -0800 reply
This is not about ReStructured? Text...what is REST?

DeanG [zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org]? wrote:

Just noticed http://www.manageability.org/manageabilityWiki is a wiki. This site is popular lately for it's 3 part series on Why REST is Better -- forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion#msg20050309103958-0800@zwiki.org

ManagabilityWiki? -- Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:36:52 -0800 reply

This is not about ReStructured? Text...what is REST?

Sorry the REST Web Services approach.. data and functionality exposed right at the URL as opposed to some sort of XML over the wire. Should hae added a fuller title like "Why REST is better than SOAP". Lately I find this weblog entry on Web Service Architectures to sum it up enough for folks.

Hmm.. wonder if there's any interest in Wiki over ZopeWiki:XmlRpc . That's another think Zope exposes somehow and somewhere, but I've never seen any implementation of it, and especially not with Zwiki.

media wiki and plone wiki --DeanG, Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:30:32 -0800 reply
First: Simon responded to the ManagabilityWiki? via email. It got flagged as spam, and I approved it. It may be on the mailing list, but it didn't make it to the wiki. What's up?

Second: Is it MediaWiki? or this configuration that looks a lot like a Plone ZWiki? http://prtnews.com/wiki/Main_Page Should this be embraced or are there enough default differentiators?

MediaWiki? has a GraphViz extension --Bill Page, Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:08:58 -0800 reply
See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GraphViz

Is there any interest here in an extension for ZWiki to support rendering of graphs such as can be produced by GraphViz? I would like to use this sort of tool as part of the MathAction web site for documentation of Axiom programs and it's mathematical category lattice. In fact I would also like to be able to generate GraphViz script from Axiom, but that it another issue.

MediaWiki? has a GraphViz extension -- Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:39:02 -0800 reply
Interest in being allowed to delimit a portion of a page to some markup which will be passed into a stated processor, and the return rendered in place of that markup? Yes. Being able to define that markup with a. Parambers, b. DTML, but not have any of it mucked with by the outlying STX text, Yes. Do I have a current relevant example of something I'd like to graph in Zwiki. :-(

More for the sake of Friday: Link-fu: Wrapper: http://dkbza.org/pydot.html Example: http://www.pycs.net/users/0000445/stories/3.html Success Story: http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2005/02/17/softwarePower (slow today) Twiki: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/WebDOTPlugin I don't think MoinMoin has a plug-in.

MediaWiki? has a GraphViz extension --Bob McElrath?, Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:47:53 -0800 reply
Bill Page [zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org]? wrote:

See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GraphViz

Is there any interest here in an extension for ZWiki to support rendering of graphs such as can be produced by GraphViz? I would like to use this sort of tool as part of the MathAction web site for documentation of Axiom programs and it's mathematical category lattice. In fact I would also like to be able to generate GraphViz script from Axiom, but that it another issue.

I'd like some kind of graph rendering that can be included in-line in a page. Right now with latexwiki you can include an eps, but this is kind of a pain since it must be uploaded separately.

I'm sorry I've been incredibly busy as of late, but with newstx one can simply add a new rule for a syntax extension (e.g. \begin{graph} or some such). This is similar to twiki's plugins that Dean is fond of. (In fact, we could make a full plugin mechanism for it -- and I think we should)

Again the code for this is here: http://mcelrath.org:9675/newstx/FrontPage

Just to review...the existing mechanism uses a set of regexes applied in succession, which can conflict with each other and mangle documents. This is why LALR grammars (etc) were developed...A true grammar essentially has one big regex, so that it's impossible for a single block of text to be matched by multiple syntaxes. e.g. 'a wikilink' and 'not [a' wikilink]?.

GraphViz in LatexWiki? --Bill Page, Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:12:07 -0800 reply
Maybe this would be useful:

http://web.mit.edu/~drayside/www/graphviz.tex/main.pdf
graphviz.tex: macros for including Graphviz in your LaTeX? files, by Derek Rayside

graphviz.tex contains some simple macros that allow one to write graphs in the dot/graphviz language inside a LATEX document. It's easy. Here's how:

  \usepackage[dvips]{graphicx}
  \input{graphviz}
  \digraph[scale=0.5]{MyGraph}{rankdir=LR; a->b; b->c}

Also relevant.

http://brighten.bigw.org/projects/ladot/
Ladot: LaTeX? in your Graphviz dot files, Brighten Godfrey <godfreyb@bigw.org>

GraphViz in LatexWiki? --Bob McElrath?, Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:19:24 -0800 reply
See, now that we have a scripting language (latex) inside our scripted (dtml) pages running on our script engine (python/zope), we can do anything!!! MUAHAAAHAHAHA!!!!

Now, who has a lisp implementation in latex so we can run axiom directly?

:-P

Sometimes I wonder why I know 40 programming languages. But other times, I don't. ;)

Clearly, it's Friday, and I'm getting loopy.

Bill Page [zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org]? wrote:

http://web.mit.edu/~drayside/www/graphviz.tex/main.pdf --

graphviz.tex: macros for including Graphviz in your LaTeX? files

by Derek Rayside

media wiki and plone wiki --Simon Michael, Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:16:56 -0800 reply
Hi Dean.

First: Simon responded to the ManagabilityWiki? via email. It got flagged as spam, and I approved it. It may be on the mailing list, but it didn't make it to the wiki. What's up?
One of the usual quirks no doubt.. lately I've sent some mails from gmail, for example. Adding that address to the mail_accept_nonmembers list now. Aside: if there are no objections I'm going to rename this to mail_allow, similar to most mailing list software.
Second: Is it MediaWiki? or this configuration that looks a lot like a Plone ZWiki?
That's the standard MW look these days.. I think they used some of the plone stylesheet as inspiration.

On the mail moderation issue - these russian spams show no sign of letting up, do they ? I'm going to drop the moderation process.

resolution: spit and polish --Simon Michael, Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:14:12 -0800 reply
Alright.. this may be difficult, but (deep breath): I resolve not to work on new Zwiki features in 2005. I may well accept them from others, but I won't do them myself.

This is to focus energy on refactoring, cleanup, polish, docs, and fixing "broken windows".

GraphViz on MathAction --Bill Page, Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:02:56 -0800 reply
See http://page.axiom-developer.org/zope/mathaction/GraphViz

I have an experimental implementation of the LaTeX? GraphViz \digraph macro defined by Derek Rayside on the axiom-developer wiki (MathAction). It requires a simple extension to LatexWiki to call the GraphViz dot program to render the graph as postscript which in turn gets processed as just another input for LaTeX?.

So there Bob :) it works... MUAHAAAHAHAHA!!!!

I have some more playing to do but not much more time right now.

Something like this http://brighten.bigw.org/projects/ladot should eventually be possible.

Comments welcome.

GraphViz on MathAction --Bob McElrath?, Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:09:18 -0800 reply
Bill Page [zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org]? wrote:

See http://page.axiom-developer.org/zope/mathaction/GraphViz

So there Bob :) it works... MUAHAAAHAHAHA!!!!

Awesome. ;) I saw your mathaction edits and looked at it already, actually.

And at this point, we're all VERY thankful for the "preview" button. ;)

GraphViz on MathAction --Simon Michael, Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:05:47 -0800 reply
Very cool Bill! :)

very nice, where can i find the code? --mdupont777, Fri, 23 Jun 2006 14:50:28 -0700 reply
Hi, I would like to use your graphviz from zope code. that would be very nice. please give me a pointer? mdupont777@yahoo.com

Re: where can i find the code --Bill Page, Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:50:02 -0700 reply
http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/MathActionRepository