jump down to [diaBlogue] :: page bottom

Note This page is draft and in the process of being revised! Scroll down for Simon's comments and corrections, under [diaBlogue], if you want to know how it really works. =}

--LaT |03.07.16|

ZWiki.org is very active in developing WikiMail, a system for integrating mailing lists and wikis. You can subscribe to individual pages in the wiki, or to the entire wiki. This page gives an introduction to using WikiMail at zwiki.org. The general guidelines here also apply to using wikimail on zWikis that have wikimail enabled.

Wikimail is developing quickly, so keep your eye out for changes: see WikiMailDiscussion and wikimail-related threads in GeneralDiscussion.

For information on setting up wikimail on your own zWiki, see WikiMail.


using wikimail at zwiki.org

[GeneralDiscussion]

all-zwiki.org mailing list

initiating and responding to wikimail

Notes/Questions


[note] The subscribe link and wikimail features only appear on zWikis if wikimail has been enabled. See WikiMail for more info.



[diaBlogue]

Here begins a discussion thread, mobilized by the comments function and the nifty wikimail subscription feature!


[comments/edit]


comments:

feedback --Simon Michael, 2003/07/15 19:23 GMT reply
Thanks for this docs work! Just some quick feedback. Ignore/merge as you think best.


> zwiki.org is very active in developing WikiMail, a system for
> integrating mailing lists into the architecture of zwiki. You can

"integrating mailing lists and wikis." clearer ?


> subscribe to individual pages in the zwiki, or to the entire
> zwiki. This page gives an introduction to using WikiMail at

Perhaps use the generic "wiki" noun here ? It's familiar to people. I use "zwiki" only when I particularly want to differentiate from general wikis.


> - The GeneralDiscussion page/mailing list is the main discussion forum
> for zwiki.org. Messages sent to GeneralDiscussion appear at zwiki.org
> in two places:
>
> - on the FrontPage (right hand column)
>
> - at GeneralDiscussion
>
> - They are also forwarded to the all-zwiki mailing list (see below).

I find this stuff tricky to describe clearly. Here's the bit from FrontPage:

"This wiki is integrated with a mail list . You can follow all discussion by subscribing to the list. Or, you can just subscribe to the pages you're interested in."

and there's some more at the top of GeneralDiscussion if it's useful. I think it's better to call it "the zwiki mailing list", that's what I've used elsewhere. all-zwiki and looks like it might be a different list.

GeneralDiscussion comments don't appear on the front page at the moment (it's changed, check it out).

"Messages sent to GeneralDiscussion" might be a little confusing at this point. They don't yet know that messages sent by email and comments posted on the web are equivalent. Perhaps just say "Messages sent to the zwiki mail list", and "at GeneralDiscussion (or some other page - see below)".


> - Because wikimail is undergoing rapid development, the all-zWiki
> mailing list at zwiki.org is a mailman list (not wikimail).

That's not the only reason, and I think of list-wiki integration as within "wikimail". We need to somehow make this stuff clear -


> - This list receives wikimail activity for all pages at zwiki.org,
> and forwards them to subscribers. This doesn't include page comments
> or edits, only postings designated as wikimail messages.

Page comments and wikimail messages are the same. (It used to be possible to make a comment without sending out mail, but no longer).


> initiating and responding to wikimail
>
> - To subscribe to individual zWiki pages, click the "subscribe" link
> on the bottom right of the page.[note]

Click there for whole-wiki subscription too.


> - To initiate an email thread to a specific page on the zWiki, you
> must be subscribed to that page.

No, you can mail to any page in the wiki as long as you are subscribed anywhere in that wiki. (the default policy, used by zwiki.org)


> - You can then send a message to that page by using: zwiki@zwiki.org
> with "[PageName]" in the subject. Note: No quotes, but be sure to
> include the square brackets!

No need for the !. These look like the topic tags used on most mail lists.


> - The message will post to the page, and be sent via email to all
> subscribers to that page and to subscribers to the zwiki.org mailman
> mailing list. Unless it was posted to the GeneralDiscussion page, it
> won't be forwarded to GeneralDiscussion.

The last sentence confuses me...


> - Anyone can jump into an existing email thread on a zWiki page by
> clicking the "reply" link in the message header.
>
> - When you do, the page will refresh and you should see a note below
> the "subject" field (below the "comments" field) that says::
>
> in reply to: <somenumber@zwiki.org>
>
> - Enter the text of the message into the comments field at the bottom
> of the page, and click "add a comment". The message will then be sent
> via email to all subscribers to that page, and to subscribers to the
> main zwiki.org mailing list.

We should make clear this is "how to reply to a thread via the web", and the reason to click the reply link (rather than just using the comment form) is to preserve threading for mail users (and later for web users) - a good practice.


> - Notes/Questions
>
> - In order to post a message to zwiki@zwiki.org, you must be
> subscribed to the mailman list.

..yes, that's how I have it configured here as a spam prevention measure. Posts from non-subscribers are rejected.


> - When replying via email to messages designated for specific pages
> — i.e. containing square brackets — be careful how you
> modify the subject line! Q: what are the rules on this, briefly?

Just reply, and the message will go back the proper page. You can change the subject, but be sure to keep the page name in brackets as-is - unless you want to redirect the discussion to a different page.


> - **Q: How do you subscribe to the entire zwiki when it's not a
> mailman mailing list as it is at wiki.org?**


There'll be a whole-wiki subscription button just like the page subscription button.

Phew! This got long!

PS --SimonMichael, 2003/07/15 19:39 GMT reply
A detail I've just noticed - because only whole-wiki subscribers are on the mailing list, and it has a members-only posting policy, page subscribers wanting to send to the wiki can't use the list address; instead they must send directly to the wiki at zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org.

Hmm, this is a problem when replying. Has this been affecting GeneralDiscussion page subscribers all along ?

gmane --SimonMichael, 2003/07/15 19:48 GMT reply

PS --laura trippi, 2003/07/15 20:25 GMT reply
Thanks for the comments/clarifications, Simon! I'll read and rework the page this evening. One thing briefly:


> because only whole-wiki subscribers are
> on the mailing list, and it has a members-only posting policy, page
> subscribers wanting to send to the wiki can't use the list address;
> instead they must send directly to the wiki at zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org.

Yes, I think I've run into this. I've bounced a few, trying to find my way! That's the reason for my writing it up: I didn't begin to understand how it works! =}

For example, on Sunday, I subscribed to the whole-wiki mailman list, thinking that was the safest and most participatory way. Now it strikes me that would be to subscribe instead just to GeneralDiscussion.

::laura

PS --simon, 2003/07/15 21:03 GMT reply
And now we all understand it a little better! Another reason this kind of docs work is so valuable.

I see a couple of cases:

Someone who wants to be notified when a particular page is commented on - eg an issue they're interested in - should subscribe to that page.

Someone who wants to keep up with Zwiki news, and a certain amount of discussion, without receiving too much mail, should subscribe to GeneralDiscussion. I'll have to do something so their replies work though. Topics on this page range from beginner problems to feature discussions to technical software development stuff and blog-type musings that enter my head.. (this is probably too much mail for some).

Someone who wants to participate most fully in the life of the wiki should subscribe to the list. Also, people who want to receive digests, or use some other mailman feature.

Someone who doesn't want to receive much mail, but does want to be able to send mail to the wiki now and then, should subscribe to some quiet page. FrontPage, for example. :) They could also subscribe to the list and disable mailing list delivery.

For now, we'll need to document that zwiki.org has two different mail-in addresses, due to our use of a mail list and the subscribers-only spam prevention policy: zwiki@zwiki.org for whole-wiki(list) subscribers and zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org for page subscribers. Rats.

PS --laura trippi, 2003/07/17 00:21 GMT reply
Wow, thanks for all this info.

> For now, we'll need to document that zwiki.org has two different > mail-in addresses, due to our use of a mail list and the > subscribers-only spam prevention policy: zwiki@zwiki.org for > whole-wiki(list) subscribers and zwiki-wiki@zwiki.org for page > subscribers. Rats.

Oh, I hadn't seen that (just emailed out this morning re: spam). I'll rework the page this weekend, most likely, when I can give it more attention.

LaT

what shall we do with this --simon, Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:01:31 -0700 reply
This page is out of date and obsoleted by AboutZwikiDiscussion and [Chapter05]? I think. DeleteMe ? Anything to salvage ?

what shall we do with this --LauraTrippi, Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:55:04 -0700 reply
DeleteMe is fine, thanks for asking! AboutZwikiDiscussion looks good - nice diagram! The explanation is a little condensed/telegraphic for newbies ("the list and the wiki are gatewayed" etc.) but, scanning, it seems to cover the key points. What's missing: links to Chapter05WikiMail and any mention of WikiMail? Also, there and/or in Chapter 5: detail on posting ("To initiate an email thread to a specific page on the zWiki, you must be subscribed to that page" + protocols for posting to the zwiki.org list?). That's all I see.

what shall we do with this --Simon Michael, Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:01:46 -0700 reply
Thanks for the feedback Laura, and for monitoring your page. Got it.