Archived WikiMailDiscussion:


Daniel Mahler <mahler@cyc.com>, 2002/02/07 09:52 US/Pacific (via mail):

Is it possible to use mail-in for non wiki word links eg: To: [Fred Bloggs]? which does not seem to work. Am I just using the wrong incantation? If it is not supported now, is there any chance it will be?

thanks Daniel


Jos Yule <jos@trapeze.com> (via Web)

Here is another script, in python this time, that you can run on your server/home computer/whatever. It will go to a mail account, download all the messages, and send them to your wiki (the mailin.py thingie). So, you still have to have the mailin.py stuff all set up. Here it is:

 ##############################################################
 import poplib
 import urllib
 import time
 while 1:
    #Repeat forever
    print "\nGetting New Messages"
    M = poplib.POP3('your.pop.email.server')
    M.user('your.email@userid')
    M.pass_('your_email_user_password')
    numMessages = len(M.list()[1])
    for i in range(numMessages):
        theMessage = ""
        for j in M.retr(i+1)[1]:
            theMessage += j + "\n"

        params = urllib.urlencode({'msg':theMessage,'defaultpage':'FrontPage'})
        f = urllib.urlopen("http://wiki.url/url/to/mailin", params)
        M.dele(i + 1)
        print "\nMessage: %s" % (i)

    M.quit()
    time.sleep(60)
    # you might want to increase this value - it checks for new messages
    # every 60 seconds. Just set this to whatever number of secs you want
    # to wait to check for new messages.

 ##############################################################

I hope this works for you as well as it has for me!

Nice! :)

NOTE the proceding script assumes that the email account it is checking is for the wiki only! Dont use this with your personal account - you need an account specific for the wiki. The script could be made smarter easily, but it does what i need it to do now...


2002/02/07 14:51 US/Pacific (via web):
In response to Daniel Mahler, here is the Regex to match wiki's non-wiki word urls:

 \[\w.*?\]
 or as a python example

 import re
 t = re.search(r'\[\w.*?\]', "this is [a test] man")

This will return '[a test]?'. it will only return items that start with a left square braket, then at least 1 alpha-numeric, any number of white space and alpha numeric and a closing right square bracket.

So, what you'd have to do is add it into the mailin.py script where-ever it is looking into the subject line for the wikiname. I'm not sure where to do that myself, right now, but i will try to experiment tonight. JosYule


2002/02/08 06:25 US/Pacific (via web):
ok, so i fooled around with the mailin.py script, and have been unable to get it to go... However, i learned another new regex - this one only returns the text inside the two square brackets:

 f = re.search(r'(?<=\[)\w.*?(?=\])', "this is a [test page] man")

Will return test page rather then 'test page'. I'm just not familiar enough with how zope/zwiki create/find the page to post the mailed in info too to use this... anybody else out there??? JosYule


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/02/08 07:29 US/Pacific (via mail):
Jos - if I remember correctly you can uncomment that "wikinameexp = ... bracketedexpr)" line near the top of zwiki_mailin.py and it will work with non WikiName'd pages. However you'll need to think about what to do with other valid occurrences of square brackets in the subject, such as the subject prefixes used on mailing lists.

Also, if someone figures out how to do page creation that would be cool.


2002/02/08 08:17 US/Pacific (via web):
I tried using the other wikinameexp that had the bracketedexpr, but it didn't seem to work. :( I agree, dynamic page creation via email in would rock! ... hummm, might look into that this weekend...

JosYule


2002/02/08 08:48 US/Pacific (via web):
Oh, i have another question - i've got the mailin.py external method working fine - how do i change the default page? i've redefined it in the script, but that has not seemed to make a difference to how it works... could you update the link to the mailin.py on this page to the version you are currently using? JosYule


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/02/08 09:10 US/Pacific (via mail):
zwiki@joyful.com (216.32.129.252) writes:
> Oh, i have another question - i've got the mailin.py external method
> working fine - how do i change the default page? i've redefined it in
> the script, but that has not seemed to make a difference to how it

You may need to restart your zope server to pick up changes in the external method. You can also call mailin with a defaultpage argument.


2002/02/08 08:48 US/Pacific (via web):
Made a change to the python script to add the defaultpage param. Just set this to whatever page you want general email'ed stuff to go to. I thought you could set this via the mailin.py script in the extensions folder, but i was unable (even after editing it) to get it to work right. This way works fine. Next, dynamic page generation! :)

JosYule


Jos Yule 2002/02/08 08:48 US/Pacific (via web):
Ok, i've got an External Python method which will create a new page. Its pretty basic, it doesn't even take any arguments currently:

 from types import *
 import Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage
 from Products.ZWiki.Defaults import DEFAULT_PAGE_TYPE, DISABLE_JAVASCRIPT, \
     LARGE_FILE_SIZE, default_wiki_page, \
     default_wiki_header, default_wiki_footer, default_editform, \
     default_backlinks, default_subscribeform

 def makenewpage(self):
    id = '[Page?]'
    ob = Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage.ZWikiPage(source_string='',__name__=id)
    ##ob.create()
    ob.page_type = DEFAULT_PAGE_TYPE
    ob.title = ''
    newid = self.aq_parent._setObject(id,ob)
    ob._deleteOwnershipAfterAdd()
    return ''

So, simon, what i need to know is where in the zwiki_mailin.py file the code barf if it finds a page that does not exist. Once we know that, we can paste the above in... I'm sure it will work first try! :) The other thing with this is that it creates a singleton page - its not linked to from anywhere. We could work it so that there is a default page that is updated with any new page links... i think i can figure out how to auto update a page (just using page.comment). What do you think?


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/02/08 11:58 US/Pacific (via mail):
Excellent!

I think it might be better to call one of zwiki's existing methods for this, probably create(). You'll need a page to call it on (which will become the parent). If we are called in the context of a page (see where it says "# figure out the best page to use") use that, otherwise just use the defaultpage. Also you'll need the name of the new page - see below "# if we are called on a folder,".

Then, something like parentpage.create(newpagename,text=text,REQUEST=self.REQUEST) should do the trick, and leverage all the usual zwiki mechanisms.


simon, 2002/02/08 12:05 US/Pacific (via web):
Did Bruno get his mail setup working I wonder..


vernier@vc.bc.ca (Bruno Vernier), 2002/02/08 13:28 US/Pacific (via mail):
On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 12:06:31PM -0800, simon wrote:


> Did Bruno get his mail setup working I wonder..

No I did not. In fact, I have since gone in a new direction: I have integrated the Zwiki/Eduml product into CMF Document as an option alongside "structured text" and "html" ... this way I have married wiki with CMF. Please note that Wiki_for_now/CMF_wiki is a separate project with a similar goal and I am not sure where that project is headed other than it appears in the CMF cvs server ... with few recent updates.

Bruno


Jos Yule, (via web):
Well, it works. Could use some cleaning, but, hey, its pretty damn cool, if i say so myself!

mailin.py


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/02/08 13:47 US/Pacific (via mail):

> No I did not. In fact, I have since gone in a new direction: I have

Ok good. When you go back to it, I would get mail-out working first. Post if still stuck.


> integrated the Zwiki/Eduml product into CMF Document as an option
> alongside "structured text" and "html" ... this way I have married wiki
> with CMF.

Interesting! Add a link to DownloadZwiki? when you're ready.


JosYule, 2002/02/08 14:02 US/Pacific (via web):
BTW - that link to the mailin.py is the one that creates new pages, if your mail'ed in email has a proper wikiname. it also appends a link to the defaultpage.


simon, 2002/02/08 15:21 US/Pacific (via web):
Cool beans. Wouldn't you know, it's time to quit and I just can't get it working right now. Drat!


simon, 2002/02/08 15:31 US/Pacific (via web):
Ah! A bug in create, the REQUEST I am passing doesn't have a URL2. Nice one - now installed here.


Do any of the mail-in implementations work on Windows?

Thanks,

George Essig


Jos Yule <jos@trapeze.com>, 2002/02/11 11:53 US/Pacific (via mail):
Well, i (jos yule) have it working on a NT4 box. You can find the scripts that i use on my page (JosYule), i just followed the instructions at the top of this page, and really had no problems.

Try it out, if you have any problems, report them here, and somebody will probably be able to help you out (dont forget to read previous comments both here and in the GeneralDiscussion area).

JY


2002/05/01 18:42 GMT (via web):
WikiMail states that curl is need for Mail-out. Can someone explain why? I installed ZWiki without curl and am able to receive e-mail notices. Maybe it's because my e-mail address is the mail_from address or because I an author of a comment.

George Essig


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/05/02 01:25 GMT (via mail):
curl or a similar program is often used to set up mailin. Mailout doesn't require any external programs.


pieterb@gewis.nl (PieterB), 2002/06/06 19:24 GMT (via mail):
I'm interested in the WikiMail concept. I took the liberty of adding a link to WikiMail to refer to the WikiMailDiscussion. Some questions:

/file.doc/200206060002 - returns the second file.doc uploaded today

/file.doc - returns current version of file.doc

/GeneralDiscussion/200206060001 - First message of today

I'll try to spend some time to working on this feature in my holidays.

PieterB


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/06/07 02:52 GMT (via mail):
meant to respond to these -

pieterb@gewis.nl (PieterB) writes:
> - Can anybody give me an update of the WikiMail subproject?

those pages are current


> - Is it possible to mail-in MIME-attachements? It would be great to be
> able to e-mail in attachements and link them on the Wiki.

yes, patches welcome


> - Can I better use 0.9.9 or the CVS for experimenting?

I would recommend cvs. It has the latest fixes.


> - When do you plan on releasing 0.9.10RC1?

as soon as I/we can knock off the list of todos in the work queue (link on FrontPage). I moved some more things off to 0.9.11 today.


> I'll try to spend some time to working on this feature in my holidays.

Great, thanks for your tracker reports today.


2002/06/13 17:35 GMT (via web):
Well, I (TonyRossini) ended up with a few infinite loops on Mailout/Mailin, because it was using its own address to send to and for some reason, wasn't catching that. The solution was to add a mail_to property, set to something weird. (it was ";", but...).


Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/06/18 09:48 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org writes:
> Well, I (TonyRossini) ended up with a few infinite loops on Mailout/Mailin,
> because it was using its own address to send to and for some reason, wasn't
> catching that. The solution was to add a mail_to property, set to something
> weird. (it was ";", but...).

We had some discussion of this problem on GeneralDiscussion.. I ended up doing the same thing here on zwiki.org at least until the failure mechanism becomes clear. Using the from address as primary recipient seemed to give more intuitive headers when replying.


carmee 2002/06/23 08:23 GMT (via web):
I'm rather new to zwiki and I cannot get Mailout to work. I'm using ZWiki-0-9-8. ...
carmee 2002/06/23 11:54 GMT (via web):
(Upgraded to 0.9.9 which seems to help a lot :)


2002/07/25 17:10 GMT (via web):
Is it possible to globally unsubscribe to every individual pages you might have subscribe ? This is a way to avoid making my mailbox explodes during hollydays ...


Simon, 2002/08/03 04:05 GMT (via web):
They will all be linked on the subscribe form, you need to go to each one in turn and click unsubscribe. I'd like to add an editable list of pages on UserOptions? as another way to (un)subscribe.


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/08/13 21:27 GMT (via web):
I found that a mailout_policy of edits was too nagging, especially with the outlook tray mail flag.

I switched to edits, but was surprised when I didn't get an email on a page creation....ideally I want: comments + page management (creation, deletion) + major modifications. major being nebulus and the least of my concerns, of course.


2002/08/16 23:24 GMT (via web):
When I put the line:

 wiki: |/usr/local/bin/curl -s -F 'defaultpage=GeneralDiscussion' -F 'msg=<-' http://wikiurl/mailin

into my /etc/aliases file, the receiving of mail fails with:

 553 5.0.0 Unbalanced '<'
 550 5.1.1 |/usr/bin/curl -s -F 'defaultpage=GeneralDiscussion' -F 'msg=<-' http://wikiurl/mailin ... User unknown

Any advice?


Simon, 2002/08/17 03:33 GMT (via web):
Perhaps you're using a different mail transfer agent than I am. I can't tell what mine is due to my ZSP's setup. I can't help much, maybe you can find a different way to write that command that keeps it happy.


PieterB, 2002/08/19 07:52 GMT (via mail):
Perhaps try to quote the command with "'s: wiki: "|/usr/local/bin/curl -s -F defaultpage=GeneralDiscussion -F msg=<- http://wikiurl/mailin"

Regards,

PieterB


2002/08/21 23:36 GMT (via web):
I've created a ZwikiFrontend? page at zwiki.org and a sandbox at http://gewis.nl:8080/zwiki/FrontPage

This will make ZWiki able to save attachements to your wiki. This can be used for things like photoalbums, or to add documents (pdf, word, py, etc.) to specific pages.

Please give it a try, and let me know what you think of it.

This requires Python 2.1 and the email package installed.

Please note that this is the first (alpha) release of the ZwikiFrontend?

-- PieterB

PS this message is also sent to the GeneralDiscussion. Might be a cool option to be able to send a message to more than one Zwikipage by using "Subject: GeneralDiscussion WikiMailDiscussion" in the e-mail.


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/10/03 15:13 GMT (via web):
Suggestions on the development a new mailout_policy to support page creation in addition to comments? (Trying to keep it simple, other features from here, but once these are figured out customization can continue henceforth.)


Simon Michael, 2002/10/03 20:15 GMT (via mail):
I think whole-wiki subscribers should always get new page notifications. It probably needs a call to sendMailToSubscribers() in create(), similar to comment() & edit().


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/10/07 02:42 GMT (via web):
Perhaps Delete too.


FlorianKonnertz, 2002/10/30 08:48 GMT (via web):
Hi! I setup mailout, proper ZopeMailHost? and mail_from and got the subscribe link, but after subscribing (either to one page or to the whole wiki) i get the following error, when adding a comment to any page. - Any ideas? --FloK:

 Traceback (innermost last):

    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 150, in publish_module
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 114, in publish
    * Module Zope, line 171, in zpublisher_exception_hook
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 98, in publish
    * Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 88, in mapply
    * Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 39, in call_object
    * Module Products.ZWiki.ZWikiPage, line 1937, in comment
    * Module Products.ZWiki.Mail, line 416, in sendMailToSubscribers
    * Module Products.ZWiki.Mail, line 498, in sendMailTo
    * Module Products.ZopeMailHost.ZopeMailHost, line 123, in send
    * Module Products.ZopeMailHost.ZopeMailHost, line 208, in _mungeHeaders
    * Module DateTime.DateTime, line 1441, in rfc822

   NameError: global name 'localzone' is not defined (Also, an error occurred while attempting to render the standard error message.)


SimonMichael, 2002/10/30 21:16 GMT (via web):
This looks like [IssueNo0345 an error occurred while attempting to render the standard error message]?, copying details there.


Simon Michael, 2002/11/05 19:34 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (Simon Michael) writes:
> PieterB wrote:
> > I think supporting threads makes it easier to see who replied to
>> what, etc.
>
> It is on my personal wishlist to explore the use of subject headings
> within a single page (and possibly threaded comment placement based on
> that). I've gone back and forth on the value of this for a long time, but
> I think there are situations (I have one with a client site) where it will
> work well.
>
>> E.g. if I use the subject "GeneralDiscussion about ZWikiMailPolicy?"
> the
> > message could be appended to both ZWikiPolicy? and be "CC'd" to
>
> Simultaneously mailing a message to multiple pages should be easy to
> implement in the mailin script. It makes me think of duplicated content
> and more cleanup work.
>
> --
> forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion


Simon Michael, 2002/11/05 19:47 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (Simon Michael) writes:
>> It is on my personal wishlist to explore the use of subject headings
>> within a single page (and possibly threaded comment placement based on
>> that).
>
>I meant to say, if you have any good thought-through designs for how this
>should work, I'd love to hear more. Finding new and harmonious
>integrations of the threaded mailing list/newsgroup, wiki and other modes
>of communication is one of Zwiki's Big Themes.
>
>The existence of WikiMailDiscussion implies that people would expect to
>find this thread there, not here, so I've posted the rest of this reply
>over there. For GeneralDiscussion subscribers, this is like taking the
>thread "off-list", which isn't necessarily what I wanted, but this seems
>to be the current approach.
> --
> forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion


Simon Michael, 2002/11/05 20:49 GMT (via mail):
First, let me note three ways of associating "threaded discussions" and "web pages":

Intra-page subjects

The goal here is to allow more fine-grained subjects when posting to and receiving mail from a page. This would better support the "page per list" mode of communication. This could look like SlashDot's "flat" mode. NB threaded display (eg slashdot's "nested" mode) is not part of this task.

This should make zwiki feel more like a mailing list for mail users, especially users who don't know about wiki, because they can set/change the subject, read threads etc. without having to deal with multiple pages & subscriptions (1). Also it should make large discussion pages easier to read (2).

On the other hand, it's one more thing for the user to be confused by. Another way to achieve 1 might be to encourage whole-wiki subscription and allow the user's arbitrary subjects to create pages (with freeform names). Ie stick closely to the "page per thread" model.

How to enter subject via web ?

For web comments the subject could be specified in an extra field (bad) or with an optional "Subject: " as the first line.

How to encode destination page(s) in emails ?

With subjects being usable, we'd need to be smarter about encoding the destination page for a message. The user may choose a subject that doesn't include the page's WikiName, or includes several.

Embedded in subject

The current scheme. Zwiki takes the first WikiName it finds in the subject and throws the rest away. Simple, usable when you know what's going on and don't need intra-page subjects. A problem is that users unknowingly direct the message to the wrong page by changing the subject.

Embedded in recipients

Include the page name in the To (or Cc, Bcc...) header, in parentheses so it won't affect mail delivery. Mail clients should keep this intact when replying, etc. This is a more meaningful place to have it, and it will be accessible to users. Zwiki's mailin.py script has support for this, currently commented out for forgotten reasons. Downside of this approach ?

Custom header

We could encode the page in a custom header (X-Zwiki-Page:) instead of embedding it in the subject. This would free up the subject for ordinary use and avoids the misdirected message problem. But, most mail readers will not show this header and so it would be hard for users to select, change or predict the destination page of a given message.

Bracketed prefix

We could have mailin subjects like:

 [TargetPage] subject of this thread

In the mailout this would become:

 wiki title [TargetPage] subject of this thread

We could drop the wiki title thing. Here are some possibilities for the mailed-in reply:

 Re: wiki title [TargetPage] subject of this thread
 Re: wiki title [TargetPage] starting a new thread
 Re: [TargetPage] some thread
 [Target Page's freeform name] some thread
 blah blah blah (user rewrote subject, will go to the default page)

This corresponds slightly with the current net practice of including a [TYPEOFPOST]? tag at the beginning of subject headings, and also with zwiki's [] linking syntax, and if you created ANNOUNCE, NEWS, PATCH pages, mailins with those tags would go where you expect. It hasn't been tested in practice so there may be more problems - can you foresee any ?

Use optional note with wikimail ?

I thought the new "optional note" field in editform would have a useful correspondence to wikimail subjects, but now I'm not so sure.


SimonMichael, 2002/11/05 21:20 GMT (via web):
FYI, disregarding the sanctity of posted comments I've just made some non-trivial edits to that last post.


2002/11/13 12:06 GMT (via web):
John Knutson (Candle Corporation) writes: I've just added zwiki to one of my CMF sites. When first tried access UserOptions? I received the following error: Error Type: PTRuntimeError? Error Value: Page Template email has errors

That went away when I commented out the statement starting Email address in the UserOptions? page.

This means that I can't use the subscription capabilities. Can anyone syggest why this is happening?


Simon Michael, 2002/11/14 18:33 GMT (via mail):
Hi John - you might try the latest zwiki-cvs which has better CMF support. If it's still broken, open a ZwikiIssueTracker issue with the traceback.


Simon Michael, 2002/11/14 18:34 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> A thought on Zwiki email, and threaded discussions
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Have been thinking about Zwiki's "page subscription" feature, and how it
> relates to email, and how that in turn gets turned into email archives.
>
> Some things I like:
>
> - Being able to subscribe to a page, be emailed changes/updates for the
> page, and then reply to them
> - Being able to take the alternative view that it's really just a
> mailing list, with an automatic logging function
>
> Areas it strongly falls down:
>
> - Subjects
> - Threaded Discussions
> - Archives
>
> With Zwiki mail at present, we don't have the ability to use the
> "Subject" line in emails effectively. This leads on to not being able
> to have threaded discussions, and this in turn leads on to not being
> able to effectively keep archives that have discussion threads
> automatically broken into groups of email.
>
> A potential solution that came to mind is this:
>
> Some email systems have the ability for a user email account i.e. "john"
> to have separate processing occur when incoming email has a "-something"
> appended to the email address. From memory some of the mailing list
> management software does this (i.e. "somelist-subscribe@foobar.com" and
> "somelist-unsubscribe@foobar.com"), and I think qmail (www.qmail.org)
> can direct all incoming email like this to the primary account.
>
> i.e. john@foobar.com goes to john@foobar.com's account.
> john-lists@foobar.com goes to john@foobar.com's account for special
> processing, etc.
>
> Now, with Zwiki, if we could somehow have it so that outgoing email goes
> out with the page name as part of the email address (i.e.
> "zwiki-generaldiscussion@zwiki.org", "zwiki-zwikiadminguide@zwiki.org"),
> and the replies going back to that address are directed to the
> appropriate page, then this would allow us to use the Subject header
> field appropriately, and our email software could then do threaded
> discussions normally, and we could use fairly standard email archiving
> systems properly.
> [10 more lines...]?
> --
> forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion


Simon Michael, 2002/11/14 19:01 GMT (via mail):
Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> writes:
> zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> > "Subject" line in emails effectively. This leads on to not being able to
> > have threaded discussions, and this in turn leads on to not being
>
> Except insofar as you consider pages to be threads.
>
> Thanks for writing up your ideas on this. Good news! I posted similar
> thoughts to WikiMailDiscussion recently. I've cc'd yours there for the
> record.
>
> The wikiname-pagename@domain idea seems interesting, though I suspect
> would be hard/impossible for many people to set up. No reason the mailin
> script couldn't support it if needed.

CC'ing from GeneralDiscussion. I'm starting to swing in favour of allowing simultaneous mailin to several pages.


Simon Michael, 2002/11/15 02:02 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (Justin Clift) writes:
> Debugging mailin.py problems
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Is there some kind of debugging level/ability or logfile that mailin.py
> keeps (or can be switched on)?
>
> Am presently trying to set up mailin (using Curl), and not having much
> luck.
>
> 0. Have subscribed to a new GeneralDiscussion page as
> justin@postgresql.org
>
> 0. Have sent email to the email address setup for mailin. Was
> originally bouncing with errors until putting talking marks around the
> curl command and it's command line options.
>
> 0. Am now getting no bounces, but also no updates to the default page
> (GeneralDiscussion, modified that constant in the mailin.py source
> before adding the method), and no email in relation to it, etc.
>
> Seems like the email is being silently discarded or something. Am
> trying to determine for sure what's going on however, so it can be
> fixed.
>
> First things first though, need to sleep.
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift
>
> --
> forwarded from http://zwiki.org/GeneralDiscussion

Ideas:


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/15 21:19 GMT (via web):
This page may be archived. When I tried to fix a post of mine awhile back I got a memory error on saving.

Has there been any requests or discussion regarding an "Ignore After this marker" tag in an email message to help keep sig's and prevoius mail auto-reply text from being posted to the wiki?

something like ~eof , etc.


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/15 22:51 GMT (via web):
Subject header

Ideally I'd like the thread header to be the same field as the the Optional Note in the edit form. Handy for FastChanges? viewing...


Simon Michael, 2002/11/16 17:50 GMT (via mail):
Subject header


> Ideally I'd like the thread header to be the same field as the the
> Optional Note in the edit form. Handy for FastChanges? viewing...

That was my plan, but I backed off. Yes I think you're right, this will work well.


JustinClift, 2002/11/17 15:51 GMT (via web):
Ignoring signatures from email

Along the same lines that Dean was asking about, would it be fairly easy to implement something in the mailin.py that ignored attached sig's? The standard marker for signatures on email is two dashs's and a new line::

--
Signature here

So if we ignore from the two dashes + new line (or is it carriage return? not sure) we should be fine. :)


JustinClift, 2002/11/17 15:57 GMT (via web):
Testing the new mailin.py

Is the new mailin.py available from somewhere? It doesn't seem to be in CVS on the SF.net website. :-/

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


Justin Clift, 2002/11/17 17:21 GMT (via mail):
Testing the new mailin.py

Testing if the new mailin.py removes the "Re:" and "Fwd:" commonly added by email programs.

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

JustinClift wrote:
>
> Is the new mailin.py available from somewhere? It doesn't seem to be in CVS on
> the SF.net website. :-/
>
> Regards and best wishes,
>
> Justin Clift


SimonMichael, 2002/11/18 17:25 GMT (via web):
Testing the new mailin.py

I guess it isn't quite in CVS yet.. I'll check in when sourceforge comes back up. You can find this site's code at http://zwiki.org/zwikidir .

Yes it's easy to add signature stripping to mailin.py. Given that it might not always do what you want, at the moment it feels like featuritis.


SimonMichael, 2002/11/18 17:33 GMT (via web):
Yes I said featuritis. What are you implying ? :)


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/18 18:17 GMT (via web):
featuritis: extraneous text removal


>> The standard marker for signatures on email is two dashs's and a new line

Ahh... like the "Forwarded from" text.

I think using that one might be problematic, due to accidentally including that line in the reply to text.

Is there an example somewhere where someone posts an awfully garbled HTML based email w/ a graphic signature to boot? That's a reality most Outlook havens would have to overcome.


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/18 18:21 GMT (via web):

It'll be interesting to see how user bases adopt the first line=subject feature.

Although busy-as-heck, I'd prefer the subject "field" be a text field near the "with heading" checkbox. The associations of these two features, and toggle factor, probably also need to be discussed..


Simon Michael, 2002/11/18 20:47 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> It'll be interesting to see how user bases adopt the first line=subject
> feature.

Yes, it might be too magical/surprising for some. I don't want to add a form field to the default page layout. Another option is to look for "Subject:" in the first line.


2002/11/18 22:02 GMT (via web):
subjec notation

I like the idea of the first line as a subject being keyed off something. Caveat: The keyword should probably be at least 2: 1 default, 1 property-able. Subject= default, Others could be: Topic, Category, Thread , ???--whatever the heck the wiki admin wants. Perhaps this would also help internationalization.. To avoid the caveat of "What should THE keyword be?" (I'm sure there are more extravegant possibilities...but appreciate the avoidance of featuritus.)


Justin Clift, 2002/11/18 23:30 GMT (via mail):
Testing the new mailin.py

Testing the new mailin.py

Have also tested messages that are forwarded, and therefore the subject line (with Netscape at least) is mangled to include:

[Fwd: ... ]?

Haven't been able to get a single message like this through to the list, and instead get a strange combination of email messages sent back. The first being a bounce error message from curl, and the second being an error saying a new Zwiki Mailing list was created. Weird.

:-(

SimonMichael wrote:
> Yes it's easy to add signature stripping to mailin.py.
> Given that it might not always do what you want, at the moment it
> feels like featuritis.

That's a point. Maybe make it optional?

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


Simon Michael, 2002/11/19 14:56 GMT (via mail):
Testing the new mailin.py

Thanks for the info Justin, I'll investigate.

Subjects are now stored as the edit note and vice versa.


SimonMichael, 2002/11/19 23:28 GMT (via web):
Yeah, it's too easy to create a subject by accident where you type a long paragraph without hitting the enter key. Will try "Subject: ..." next I guess.


SimonMichael, 2002/11/19 23:32 GMT (via web):
Or, an initial one-line paragraph that is in '** or < b>< /b>'.


SimonMichael, 2002/11/20 00:00 GMT (via web):
web comment subject handling updated

To set the subject from a web comment, use an initial one-line paragraph that is bold (using '** or < b>') and no longer than 100 characters.


DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/20 04:21 GMT (via web):
Mailin for SubWiki

If anyone knows of a possible issue with mailin for a SubWiki, please comment.

2002/11/24 22:12 GMT (via web):
MailHost replacement in Zope3?

Via the Zope 3 Newsletter 2

Barry Warsaw and I had a chat about what would make a good MailHost replacement for Zope 3. Some important things include transaction-aware mail delivery (so that you don't get mails sent when there are conflict errors or aborted transactions), and mail delivery in a separate thread, so it doesn't hold up a page's response. Barry's writing up a proposal on this, and I have some time put aside to help with this. - Steve Alexander

2002/11/25 11:40 GMT (via web):
John Knutson (Candle Corporation) writes: I eventually got mailin working - I had a rogue method called email that conflicted with the cookie name / object called email used widely through zwiki. Can anyone explain wht all other such objects are prefixed zwiki_ but this one isn't. Anyway, I renamed mine and it now works.

2002/11/25 11:46 GMT (via web):
John Knutson (Candle Corporation) writes: Is there any way to exclude certain pages from subscription - some sort of subscription page exclusion folder property? By the way, is there a list of such properties given anywhere?

Justin Clift, 2002/11/25 15:07 GMT (via mail):
John Knutson (Candle Corporation) wrote:
> By the way, is there a list of such properties given anywhere?

Hi John,

There's a list of Zwiki folder and page properties on the QuickReference page.

Is that what you're after?

:)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift

Simon Michael, 2002/11/26 01:52 GMT (via mail):

> John Knutson (Candle Corporation) writes: Is there any way to exclude certain
> pages from subscription - some sort of subscription page exclusion folder
> property? By the way, is there a list of such properties given anywhere?

No, not at present. The list is at QuickReference as the earlier poster said.

Simon Michael, 2002/11/26 01:57 GMT (via mail):

> John Knutson (Candle Corporation) writes: I eventually got mailin
> working - I had a rogue method called email that conflicted with the
> cookie name / object called email used widely through zwiki.

Thanks, I've opened an issue for it. The email method was one you added yourself ? What kind of failure did you see ?


> Can anyone explain wht all other such objects are prefixed zwiki_ but
> this one isn't. Anyway, I renamed mine and it now works.

Yes - I added the zwiki_ prefix for fear of situations like this, but PTK and other membership products seemed to set an email cookie already and it seemed nice for the subscribeform to be aware of that.

Simon Michael, 2002/11/26 01:58 GMT (via mail):

> John Knutson (Candle Corporation) writes: Is there any way to exclude certain
> pages from subscription - some sort of subscription page exclusion folder
> property? By the way, is there a list of such properties given anywhere?

No, not at present. The list is at QuickReference as the earlier poster said.

2002/12/03 14:50 GMT (via web):
John Knutson (Candle Corporation) writes: I'm now using the JosYule python script which works intermittently. Sometimes it returns an error saying that email requires two arguments - sometimes it works fine. The intermittent problem appears to be related the presence of an active IE window but there doesn't appear to be a pattern that I can see. Funny, I get the same error if I paste the url and parameters that it is using in its urlopen. Sometimes that paste operation works if the browser happpens to be logged in but not always.

Could this be a permission problem that is being manifested in another way? If so, anyone know what permissions I would need?

2002/12/03 15:07 GMT (via web):
My previous post should have said that mailin requires two arguments

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/04 04:39 GMT (via web):
Comment mode now only sent with heading

Is it an anamoly or standard procedure that mail is only sent in comment mode when the with heading checkbox is checked?

If not, we should update the WikiMail page.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/04 17:44 GMT (via web):
Hi John, I don't know what that is on JosYule's page. I would think you'll have best luck with the mailin.py shipped with zwiki. If you still have trouble, try to test it from the command line as if you were your mail delivery agent.

Dean, that would be an anomaly, I didn't implement that (though the thought pops up regularly). The server was restarting like crazy yesterday, if that would explain it.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/04 20:06 GMT (via web):
comment mode problems

I verified this on my local OSX 2.5.1 box. I'll add an issue.

David Hart, 2002/12/07 06:10 GMT (via mail):
WikiMail - mailin w/curl problem

Hi,

I've followed directions at WikiMail and in mailin.py (/etc/aliases entry) to enable mailin comments - no luck.

I've confirmed via Z2.log that curl POST requests are getting to Zope.

mailin.py seems to be silently dropping my messages. what's the best way to debug?

SM
HowToDebugMailinProblems?

DavidHart?, 2002/12/07 07:13 GMT (via web):
Thanks for the tips Simon. Now we're getting somewhere!

'%cat mailin-test-message | /usr/local/bin/curl -s -F \msg=<-\ http://zcleona.atlantisblue.com.au/SiteRoot/ATLANTISBLUE/wiki/mailin':

  Unauthorized

  Traceback (innermost last):
  File /data/Zope/Zope-2.5.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 150, in publish_module
  File /data/Zope/Zope-2.5.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 114, in publish
  File /data/Zope/Zope-2.5.1/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 159, in zpublisher_exception_hook
    (Object: wiki)
  File /data/Zope/Zope-2.5.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 89, in publish
  File /data/Zope/Zope-2.5.0/lib/python/ZPublisher/BaseRequest.py, line 404, in traverse
  File /data/Zope/Zope-2.5.1/lib/python/ZPublisher/HTTPResponse.py, line 533, in unauthorized
  Unauthorized

DavidHart?, 2002/12/07 07:44 GMT (via web):
Uh, sorry about the ugly error message above.

I think I just answered my own question. I'll need to create a mailin user, duh!

Thanks for the help!

SimonMichael, 2002/12/07 16:06 GMT (via web):
Good. In this situation I get a bounce saying "curl returned error code 7" or some such - does this not happen with your setup ? What's your mail server ?

SimonMichael, 2002/12/07 22:02 GMT (via web):
FYI: in 0.14 I plan to disable this mailin rule:

  if a recipient of the form
  "...(wiki|tracker|bugs|mailin)@virtualhost" is found where virtualhost
  matches an existing VirtualHostMonster entry, then in the corresponding
  folder,

I think I'm the only one using it. There may be a better way to do it later.

DavidHart?, 2002/12/07 23:29 GMT (via web):
I'm using sendmail9. My bounce messages usually come through speedily. In this case, the error doesn't come from curl, it comes from Zope (Unauthorized), hence sendmail receives no error. So, my feature request is for mailin.py to send the message contents of any unsuccessful post to a pre-determined admin email addres. :) Should I put this in the tracker?

Simon Michael, 2002/12/08 02:13 GMT (via mail):
Maybe, maybe.. or just post some code. I need it for friendlier non-subscriber bounces also.

I believe curl exits with a non-zero status due to the authorization error, and my mail server (exim) returns a bounce because of that. I wonder if it's easy to configure that behaviour for sendmail.

This post is testing the rewritten and unit-tested mailin.py which I've just checked in.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/09 02:47 GMT (via web):
MailBoxer? (Via GeneralDiscussion)

Has anyone looked at Mailboxer ?

Looking for some kind of mail archiving system that will do threaded discussion archives and similar, but properly (hopefully seamlessly) work in with the Zwiki mailing system.

:-)

Regards and best wishes,

Justin Clift


JosYule gave it a look back in Feb., noted with an interesting request:

i'd be interested in knowing how to dynamically subscribe users to a zwiki page - though email. That'd be great. All you other points - subject lines and hidden to: list are good as well.

PieterB said the product looks quite nice.

PieterB, 2002/12/09 08:30 GMT (via mail):
WikiMailDiscussion


> > Parts of zwikifrontend might also be usefull for you


> The only problem that I have with zwikifontend is that it seems to only
> be able to post messages as a predetermined user, and that makes it seem
> like all of the incoming email messages have come from them. :-(

I think it would be hard/impossible to make the messages on the Zope UID of the sending user. Why not add an attribute/property to the message you are uploading with the full name or emailadress of the message. Stolen from mailin.py

        self.sender = self.msg['From']
        self.senderRealName = rfc822.parseaddr(self.sender)[0]
        self.senderEmail = rfc822.parseaddr(self.sender)[1]
        self.senderUserName = (self.senderRealName or
                               re.sub(r'@.*$',r'',self.senderEmail))


> That's ok. Was just hoping that you'd already done all this before and
> gotten it working.
> Oh well. ;-)

I know the feeling ;)

I'll be happy to give you a hand by answering e-mail, but probably can't do any programming in the following two weeks.

PieterB

testing has WikiMailDiscussion reached that magic threshold of oblivion ?

Simon Michael, 2002/12/10 17:38 GMT (via mail):
Auto-archiving Zwiki email

(snipped Justin's thoughts about tracking messages & threads - thanks)

I was just thinking about ZwikiAndMailingLists (content on the way). There are a couple of ways it could work, and that might be an easier way to get the threaded archive. Let mailman do it's thing in parallel with the wiki.

I would like to see some kind threading experiments in the wiki pages also, eg slashdot's nested format. We also need a way of marking messages so they can be linked to.


> i'd be interested in knowing how to dynamically subscribe users to a
> zwiki page - though email. That'd be great.

Again, I think mailman would be the way to go, for now anyway. Like digests, which is the feature I need now, we don't want to reimplement things mailman already does very well.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 18:37 GMT (via web):
end of message marker

I added a dash,dash,cr to the last part of a message I mailed in and it didn't serve as an "oef" on my message. The entire message, including the annoying signature, was plastered in the comment.

Is there another way to accomplish this?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 18:42 GMT (via web):
ZwikiAndMailingLists

It will be interesting to see how threads are handled in this situation.

Looking forward to subscribing to a Zwiki experiment list. Freezope does mailing lists for a small charge.

SimonMichael, 2002/12/10 19:35 GMT (via web):
mailin.py doesn't currently do any signature stripping. They are annoying - is it a technical problem or a social one ?

I'm really quite liking being able to comment without sending a mailout. It's like a "minor edit". I don't like that it's another option for users to deal with, but I really am finding it handy. I think it may be the new default, what do you all think ?

I added notes to and renamed that mailman page. It's a clunky name but I wanted to get HowTo? in there.

I can set up a mailman list here at imeme and that may be the way to go for zwiki.org at some point, at least for the experiment. After all, who else will dare if not us ?! :)

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 22:03 GMT (via web):
I'd like "minor changes" , but would like to revisit mail-out modes. Theres a weird cross-functionality in there between mail-out and "with heading" and the subject box. Later I'll get analytical and try to figure out the matrix.

For me signatures are primarily social: Ugly pages, irrelevant URL's added to pages, redundant text. Technically..umm... would it help reduce signature graphics & other HTML nuances? Not sure how that affects attatchments, though.

If you setup a list, and it's successful, here's my pre-vote for keep a little of the current methods running as an example to the world how "out of the box mode" works.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 22:13 GMT (via web):
phantom posts

Sorry for the repost, but...I have a mail_from property set to my address, and mailout_policy of comments, and NOTHING in the subscriber_list, yet, when a comment is added to a page, I get email! It's not quite phantom, as I changed the name to a different address and the message was directed at them.

Is that how it's supposed to work?

I would prefer it not, and only use the subscriber_list.

Also, I think that SubWiki's inherit these values, which I haevn't experimented with yet, but seems more problematic than useful. I have a SubWiki that has only has a blanksubscriber_list, and it sends comments also. :-( Overloading may work. I would guess (no time to cross-reference) that setting a mailout_policy to some type of "none" is the way to go here.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/10 22:19 GMT (via web):
mailing lists

I hate to mention this, but I hope it's not easy to subscribe a wiki to a mailing list. perhaps thats an entry needed to be listed on WikiVandelism?.

Perhaps an administrative type mail-out on new site-wide subscriber would be helpful here.

2002/12/13 23:35 GMT (via web):
I've been trying to get mailin to work, unfortauntely not sucessfully. mailin gives me the following traceback when I try and deliver mail to it:

Traceback (innermost last): File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 150, in publishmodule File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 114, in publish File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 159, in zpublisher_exception_hook (Object: rpgwiki) File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 98, in publish File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 88, in mapply (Object: mailin) File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 39, in call_object (Object: mailin) File /usr/lib/zope/lib/python/Products/ExternalMethod/ExternalMethod.py, line 198, in __call_ (Object: mailin) (Info: ((), {}, ('((?L)(?<[A-Z\xc0-\xdfa-z\xe0-\xff0-9])[A-Z\xc0-\xdf]+[a-z\xe0-\xff]+[A-Z\xc0-\xdf][A-Z\xc0-\xdfa-z\xe0-\xff]*[0-9]*|(?L)(?<[A-Z\xc0-\xdfa-z\xe0-\xff0-9])[A-Z\xc0-\xdf][A-Z\xc0-\xdf]+[a-z\xe0-\xff][A-Z\xc0-\xdfa-z\xe0-\xff]*[0-9]*)', FrontPage, \n\n, 0, 1, 0, 1))) TypeError?

I'm using zope-zwiki 0.11.0-1, with zope2.6

Simon Michael, 2002/12/14 16:54 GMT (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org writes:
> I've been trying to get mailin to work, unfortauntely not sucessfully. mailin
> gives me the following traceback when I try and deliver mail to it:

I'm not sure what this is. It doesn't look as if it's getting into the mailin code. Perhaps delete and recreate your mailin external method ? And use the settings in it's docstring.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 21:21 GMT (via mail):
phantom posts

zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> Sorry for the repost, but...I have a mail_from property set to my
> address, and mailout_policy of comments, and NOTHING in the
> subscriber_list, yet, when a comment is added to a page, I get email!

It puts the from address in To: by default. You could try setting the mail_to property to ;, cf comments in sendMailTo().


> Also, I think that SubWiki's inherit these values, which I haevn't
> experimented with yet, but seems more problematic than useful. I have a

You're probably right. A blank mail_from property should disable wikimail in subwikis for now.

Simon Michael, 2002/12/19 21:33 GMT (via mail):
mailing lists

zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> I hate to mention this, but I hope it's not easy to subscribe a wiki
> to a mailing list. perhaps thats an entry needed to be listed on

Well, zwiki ignores mailins that have list headers or precedence bulk - or at least, it did until today. I removed that check as it doesn't seem to be essential and gatewaying mailing lists is something we'll want to do.

So yes, it's now easy to subscribe a wiki to a mailing list. Are we lacking some big safeguard that other mailing list software has ? If so we'll add it.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/12/20 05:20 GMT (via web):
mailing list run-on


>> Are we lacking some big safeguard that other mailing list software has ? If so we'll add it.

Great question, out of my expertise. I hope that was intended for the rest of the group...

Didn't think about bluffing the mail_from, thanks for the workaround. :-)

Update: mailout_from to ; fails, (note: I'm still running 0.11.0.) Will check the code. traceback on my page if it matters. Off to check out the code.

PieterB, 2002/12/30 14:03 GMT (via web):
Comments on ZwikiAndMailingLists

I would create a MailMan? list, and subscribe the zwiki-mailin account to that list. I think all messages should be sent to a default page if no page name is specified (just like GeneralDiscussion). I think all mail messages must be sent to the wiki and all web messages must be sent by e-mail.

PieterB