Archived WikiMailDiscussion.

DeanGoodmanson, 2003/01/02 23:16 GMT (via web):
From: titles

Emails that are sent to my yahoo account get a proper "From:" field filling in the username. Those sent to my Outlook (through Exchange) do not.

SimonMichael, 2003/01/09 18:10 GMT (via web):
I could have sworn this worked: you set mail_replyto but not mail_from, and then mail-ins are sent out with the original sender's email address in From.

Has this never worked ?

DeanGoodmanson, 2003/01/12 20:33 GMT (via web):
pipermail digest mode

Is this setup something we can sign-up for yet?

I'll try to From: title discussion stuff at my local wiki, but the scenario I described was verified with ZWiki.

SimonMichael, 2003/01/16 01:47 GMT (via web):
I'll be setting up a mailman list as the delivery mechanism for whole-wiki subscribers pretty soon. Zwiki will still deliver directly to page subscribers for now. If you don't want to be subscribed to the mailman list, you might want to unsubscribe from the whole wiki now..

SimonMichael, 2003/01/19 22:08 GMT (via web):
Minor usability hack: I made the subscribe link appear as (un)subscribe if you are subscribed anywhere in the wiki. In wikipage this looks like:

 ><span tal:condition="python:here.allSubscriptionsFor(request.get('email',''))"
 >(un)</span
 >s<b><u>u</u></b>bscribe</a>

I would find this useful when browsing remote wikis, and I'd like to put it in the default skin but allSubscriptionsFor is another of those things that loads all pages into memory and I'd like to be moving away from that, not doing it on every page render.

FlorianKonnertz, 2003/01/22 08:17 GMT (via web):
OpenQuestion?: Refactor the [mailing list way]? page and delete it.

Simon Michael, 2003/01/29 21:48 GMT (via mail):
page names in recipients considered harmful ?

I introduced the option of naming the mailin target page in the freeform portion of To (or other recipient headers) to reduce confusion when people change the subject in their replies, and because it seems more semantically correct.

After using it for a while I think it may be more trouble than it's worth. Users and mail programs mess with it just like they do with the subject, directing replies to the wrong page/a new page.

I think the simple "target page appears in the subject" rule is overall less surprising. Also, I'm thinking of making that "target page appears in brackets in the subject". This fits with the familiar use of subject prefixes on mailing lists.

latest thoughts --SimonMichael, 2003/02/01 20:09 GMT
FYI there's been some relevant discussion on GeneralDiscussion today, and we're now mailing out all comments. I don't think a mail-out checkbox is worth the trouble. Also a destination page in mailin subjects must now be in brackets.

If there are multiple bracketed strings in the subject, we use the first. Since mail clients or lists sometimes add these, I think it may be better to use the last.

latest thoughts --SimonMichael, 2003/02/01 20:30 GMT
PS - oh, and I went ahead and disabled page names in recipients by default. I may remove the option and it's code later if it seems appropriate.

yeuk mailout thoughts --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/02/03 05:43 GMT
I believe with the current (0.12.0) system of edits and comments an additional (yeuk) mode works in only as a new policy. The good news is that this policy works into the code (and I think system) rather easily, so if you don't like it it could still be a modification.

Mode: 'logs': Mails out all edits or comments which include the optional subject/note.

This is what I intended as my "major change flag" in earlier discussions. Primary motivation is notifying people via mailout, not log text on RecentChanges?.

Caveats:

  1. Requires a "mystical text box" on pages which end in "Discussion" or "Tracker", filling in the word "comment" (or other, if you have a suggestion) in the optional subject box.
  2. FloK's case of wanting to badge a page AND get a RecentChanges? highlight log is not available in this mode.

---

I agree it's confusing when trying to work it into either comment or edit policies (sticking to two policies), thus causing the a agreed upon "Bleach!".

And not to be a follow-on contradiction, but..

Alternative: Change the current:

 self.folder().mailout_policy == 'comments'   to    if(self.folder().mailout_policy.find('comments')>-1)

and allow for both comments AND logs, (but not edits induced spam unless it's logged)

--

My peers use edit much more than comments (currently on 0.12.0, all comments mailed). Not sure exactly why, except mailouts are scarce in our domain with "comments". We also have some experimental faq creation (well, it's by hand now, but soon to be implemented) & journal/weblog code (implemented..still quirks, see NooWiki:/debug which does edits, but provides no subscription as not an edit which would be covered with a logs mailout_policy.

BTW, I like the one line heading, and did not intend to advocate moving the subject below. I don't mind it above as long as it's got a grey background like the rest of the divider bar...did you ever consider making the entire footer grey? (or bluegrey like the header) The current grey text would probably have to become black. :-)

Adding a prefix to outgoing mail subjects --Simon Michael, 2003/02/03 19:21 GMT
zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> Use of the brackets in the the prefix example [foo.com] should be
> changed and discouraged due to new bracket page name matching, right?

Yes, that's always been discouraged - I put a very short lowercase string if anything. But I think it will be ok for people to do that if I look at the last bracketed thing instead of the first.

prefix site name convention.. --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/02/03 20:20 GMT
Squishdot uses the site name in brackets prefix notation, if that's any relevance.

I like the idea of using the first, though. When the subject of a page is another page, the reply might get routed wrong.

Newline added when subscriber list longer than 1018 bytes --2003/02/04 20:06 GMT
I've got 35 or so subscribers on my wiki and now the copy_to list is having a newline added at position 1019. This interferes with the formatting when received on our Notes system. Has anyone seen this problem before or suggest how I can fix it. I'm running zwiki 0.13 with CMF 1.3 and Zope 2.5.1

John Knutson

newline in copy_to --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/02/05 03:06 GMT
Can I ask what happens? Does anyone get the email? (Can you get email to your Notes account from GeneralDiscussion?)

A knee-jerk repsonse to fix it, is to route messages through another mailing list, such as the [mailman]? as discussed in this page.

Sig, 2003/02/20 15:33 GMT
I setup ZWiki 0.15 on Zope 2.6.1 (so with the mailout hotfix built-in) with a mailman 2.1 beta. I added a mailman mailing list as a subscriber of a ZWiki site. But when ZWiki tries to Bcc the mailing list to notify a change, mailman rejects the mail since it has "implicit destination" (because of Bcc: to the list instead of To:). More precisely, mailman sends the mail for approval to the list moderator. Should I look for a way to force a "To:"-headed message from ZWiki or a way to force mailman to accept a "Bcc:"-headed message from this specific subscriber ? Any guess ? --Sig (http://sig.levillage.org)

destination woes --Simon Michael, 2003/02/20 20:38 GMT
zwiki@zwiki.org (DeanGoodmanson) writes:
> I setup ZWiki 0.15 on Zope 2.6.1 (so with the mailout hotfix built-in)
> with a mailman 2.1 beta. I added a mailman mailing list as a subscriber
> of a ZWiki site. But when ZWiki tries to Bcc the mailing list to notify
> a change, mailman rejects the mail since it has "implicit destination"

Oh hey Dean, good for you. Yes, add the wiki's mail_from address to mailman's acceptable_aliases list in privacy -> recipient filters IIRC. There are a number of things like this, but it's getting (somewhat) simpler. I suggest:

I'll write these down again when I set up the zwiki.org list.

clarification --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/02/20 20:50 GMT
I just did the re-post.

Sig is the author. :-)

destination woes --Simon Michael, 2003/02/20 21:29 GMT
Sig - good for you. :) I was just skimming the last few posts.

mailman list set up --simon, 2003/02/23 08:02 GMT
Cf recent announcement on GeneralDiscussion.

ideas for later --simon, 2003/02/23 08:14 GMT
suppress page name in subject when mailing out a comment from the default page, to help threading ?

some way to assist jumping from page or comment to relevant part of list archives, & vice versa

ideas for later --SimonMichael, 2003/02/24 00:46 GMT
some way to embed in-reply-to information with comments, so wiki replies get threaded properly

turn off page creation from new page names in the subject ? This might reduce confusion, especially if we see many [Fwd:] & other misc. bracketed things in subjects; we could ignore bracketed things that don't match the known page names.

post mailins to all pages named in the subject ?

WikiMailman? and subscription page --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/02/24 11:43 GMT
I'm studying the Mailman integration at the moment - I haven't got it completely yet so my question might be silly: It's still possible to subscribe to the whole wiki, isn't this deprecated because MailMan? handles the wholewiki-subscriptions? Or is it just a bug in the subscription page which make it currently display my name? - TIA, Florian

WikiMailman?? and subscription page --SimonMichael, 2003/02/24 16:46 GMT
You're right, it's deprecated. I ran out of energy for customizing the subscribeform. I'll do it soon.

digest feature request --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/24 21:57 GMT
Annoying request: Could the digest mode subject include the number of posts, similar to zope@zope.org ?

mail-out request --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/24 21:59 GMT
I find myself wanting to click on wiki lnks in email.

Any thoughts on converting wiki-links to STX links in the page->email conversion? [WikimailDiscussion] ->"[WikimailDiscussion]':http://zwiki.org/WikiMailDiscussion

wiki links in email --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/03/24 22:16 GMT
Nice idea, Dean! That would be great! :)

digest feature request --SimonMichael, 2003/03/25 00:53 GMT
Sure, except I don't see an option for that. Could it be a newer mailman ?

By the way I realize you brave whole-wiki subscriber test pilots are getting a lot of junk, particularly last night when I went on a deleting spree. So far I have accepted it rather than add more complications. If it gets to be a real problem, let's discuss it..

mail-out request --SimonMichael, 2003/03/25 00:55 GMT
I don't think that's much use, is it ? A stx link in email is worse. Perhaps you mean convert wikinames, stx links etc to urls ?

mail-out request --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/25 01:57 GMT

> Perhaps you mean convert wikinames, stx links etc to urls ?

that sounds best.

mail-out request --SimonMichael, 2003/03/25 02:40 GMT
On second thoughts, I suppose we shouldn't just throw away the text part of a stx link. Silly me, thinking only of pretty output. My bad.

test --2003/04/10 22:39 GMT
test

forwarded from.. - link in MailOut? --FlorianKonnertz, 2003/04/17 06:07 GMT
I found the link ie.forwarded from http://zwiki.org/MySubscribedPAge in outgoing mails very useful. The receiver can check the page with one click. That's useful especially for users who subscribe only to a few pages and don't have the URL in mind.

wiki mail change (forwarded from #450 zwiki.org open to spam --Simon Michael, 2003/04/26 18:21 GMT

> To support a mailing list gatewayed to a closed wiki, a new wiki option
> seemed necessary. The mail_accept_nonmembers lines property means "allow
> these email addresses to post even though they are not subscribers"
> (similar to Mailman). mailin.py now accepts a post if either the From or
> Sender address is subscribed in the wiki or appears in the
> mail_accept_nonmembers list. So we can put the list's Sender address in
> there, set the wiki posting policy to closed and everything still works.
> ZwikiAndMailman has been updated. So, touch wood we are
> spam-free again.
>
> The reason the private zwiki-wiki address started getting so much spam is
> that it got harvested from the howto page and from pages where it appears
> in citations. I'll add a wishlist issue for obscuring addresses in
> citations.

... --2003/05/18 20:52 GMT
How can I add to the trailer instructions that presently are tagged onto every mail-out... "forwarded from (url)" ... how can I change this to give my newbie users a few more lines of instruction at the end of every mail-out?

bracket and apostrophe appear unwanted in mail-out reply-to --2003/05/18 21:44 GMT
The Reply-To: appearing on mail-outs has this odd format: ['april@fullscalecommerce.com']? (in case its not visible the email address gets enclosed in square brackets and apostrophes) --- which doesn't work for replying. I would like it to be simply april@fullscalecommerce.com and that is what I put into a mail-from lines property for the wiki. Can you suggest why it is adding [ and ' ? and how to make it come out right.

changing the signature --SimonMichael, 2003/05/19 05:32 GMT
You can override that with a mail_signature folder property, but it's not very flexible. Or change this code in Mail.py:

        signature = getattr(self.folder(),
                            'mail_signature',
                            '--\nforwarded from %s' % pageurl)

bracket and apostrophe appear unwanted in mail-out reply-to --SimonMichael, 2003/05/19 05:33 GMT
Yes, mail_from should be a string property.

ftour, 2003/07/13 20:40 GMT (via web):
Mail Subscription form says "Subscribers receive a copy of comments via email (but not general edits, unless enabled by the site admin)". How does the site admin enable this general edits option?


comments:

Mail Subscription: general edits --Simon Michael, 2003/07/14 03:49 GMT reply
Simon Michael writes:
> In the ZMI, set a mailout_policy string property on the folder (or page)
> to edits. Vaguely related doc pages: QuickReference, ReleaseNotes, FAQ.

doc seed -- Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:03:00 -0700 reply
starting outline/notes of ZwikiAsSimpleMailingList page. - DeanG

[Simple Mailing List]? -- Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:54:08 -0700 reply
I put that off much later than I should have. Feedback, Additional outline entries, and collaboration appreciated. The concept makes perfect sense to me, but I stammered a bit when trying to explain it to a colleage today. Partly due to communicating perspective (benefits over alternatives) to the mechanics of member usage. (btw, I'm excited about a ZwikiBook? effort.)

Although nowhere near an outline or query, if this topic is of enough interest and focus, my wife can add the necesary collaboration to form it into an article.

[Simple Mailing List]? --SimonMichael, Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:14:41 -0700 reply
Thanks Dean.

mailin - problem -- Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:31:19 -0800 reply
Tried to follow the description; mail out is okay. For mailin, I get sendmail to receive the message, but it never seems to make it into zwiki.

Here is the sendmail-log on the zwiki-machine Nov 30 03:19:12 server sm-mta[19264]?: hATJJAtt003259: to="|/usr/local/bin/curl -s -F defaultpage=GeneralDiscussion -F msg=<- http://server:8080/mailin", ctladdr=<wiki@zserver.company.com> (1/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30591, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

User wiki doesn't exist, but that should be fine, since the alias contains several such users; with redirection. server:8080 is the url of zope; to be reached from any LAN-machine in the browser.

mailin - problem -- Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:53:55 -0800 reply
Here is the sendmail-log on the zwiki-machine Nov 30 03:19:12 server sm-mta[19264]??: hATJJAtt003259: to="|/usr/local/bin/curl -s -F defaultpage=GeneralDiscussion -F msg=<- http://server:8080/mailin", ctladdr= (1/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30591, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent