simon, 2001/10/05 01:45:56.246 US/Pacific (via web):
test 2

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:47:50 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (simon) writes:
> test 2

test 3

>, Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:22:50 +0100 (via mail):
Hi Bill,

"Bill Seitz" <Bill@ipathhq.com> writes:
> Is there a document someplace that compares and makes
> recommendations regarding Zwiki vs WikiNG?, WikiForNow, CMFWiki,
> etc.?
>
> It's hard to keep track of what the heck these things are, their
> respective status/reliability, etc...

My humble list at http://zwiki.org/ZWiki is the only overview I know of. Here's a little more off the top of my head, AFAIK, etc.:

SimonMichael, 2001/10/13 04:28:26.4259 US/Pacific (via web):
2001/10/13

ZWikiDiscussion? added to FrontPage; ShipsLog2001 experimentally retired.

HowToHelpZwiki? renamed to HowToHelp and split into BigTodoList?.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 13 Oct 2001 20:55:56 +0100 (via mail):
ZWiki 0.9.5 released, to get things moving again. Bang on it if you didn't already try 0.9.5pre1. I'm going to keep on with 0.9.x releases until I get a good solid 1.0 feeling.

Regards, -Simon

  1. 9.5 2001-10-13
    • the link to an uploaded file or image used to be !-escaped; this is no longer necessary
    • file upload now requires ";Add Documents, Images and Files" permission (was "Add Documents, Files and Images")
    • fixed zwiki_username_or_ip() so last editor username is saved again
    • moved zwiki web creation into core python product, so the manual ZWikiWebs? import is no longer needed. The sample wikis are now shipped as individual zexp's in ZWiki/import, and are automatically imported to /Control_Panel/Products/ZWiki at product startup. (Install your own sample wikis there as well). /Control_Panel/Products/ZWikiWebs? can be deleted.
    • "add zwiki web" form updates

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:47:59 +0100 (via mail):
I caused the zwiki.org outage just now.. somehow a bunch of problems slipped through my tests. Product code cleanup in progress.

BillSeitz, 2001/10/19 09:35:22.0375 US/Pacific (via web):
Added some notes to TheRobotProblem. I'd like to get my ZWiki indexed by Google, as it's becoming my blog.

BillSeitz, 2001/10/19 12:41:25.9513 US/Pacific (via web):
Why do this here rather than individual pages, browsing via RecentChanges??

BillSeitz, 2001/10/19 13:01:42.296 US/Pacific (via web):
While it's counter to the Wiki standard, might it make sense to allow an all-caps word (abbreviation) to be a WikiName? The only risks I can think of are (a) a user running multiple all-caps words together (APPLEMAC) and (b) some risk of uniqueness problems because e.g. PDA could mean PersonalDigitalAssistant? or PublicDisplayOfAffection?.

194.125.220.95, 2001/10/22 04:29:38.4808 US/Pacific (via web):
Hi Bill.. I decided against all-caps wikinames for my wikis, but it should be not too hard for a python-aware admin to hack in that support.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:48:33 +0100 (via mail):
specifically you would change one of the regular expressions currently in [zwikidir/ZWikiRegexes.py]?. Something like (untested):

  wikiname1        = r'\b[A-Z]+[a-z]+[A-Z][A-Za-z]*[0-9]*'
  wikiname2        = r'\b[A-Z][A-Z]+[a-z][A-Za-z]*[0-9]*'
  wikiname3        = r'\b[A-Z][A-Z]+[0-9]*'
  simplewikilink   = r'!?(%s|%s|%s|%s)' % (wikiname1,wikiname2,wikiname3,url)

--Simon

"Holger P . Krekel" <krekel@merlinux.de>, Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:27:54 +0200 (via mail):
i want to install ZWikiDiscussion? in our zwiki. Is there a howto/help site? we are currently using the codebase 0.9.5 of zwiki.org. btw, it's great software! holger

SimonMichael, 2001/10/22 05:50:58.2609 US/Pacific (via web):
Holger, WikiMail and [zwikidir/ZWikiPage.py]? is the best documentation for setting up mail-in/mail-out right now.

Mail-out is the easier - configure a zope ZopeMailHost? (with id "ZopeMailHost?"); set your wiki folder's "mail_from" property to a suitable email address (eg yours); add subscribers via the subscribeform method present in cvs or the forthcoming 0.9.6 release.

Mail-in requires you to set up a mail address which will process messages with the zwiki_mailin script, eg via your own mail server or via a shell account running procmail rules as in [zwikidir/Extensions/zwiki_mailin.py]?

great, i try this

holger, 2001/10/22 09:47:16.9989 US/Pacific (via web):
Problem with link recognition. See [remote wiki links fail]? for detail.

SimonMichael, 2001/10/22 10:05:03.414 US/Pacific (via web):
Thanks, I forwarded to RenderingProblems.

SimonMichael, 2001/10/22 10:13:54.7086 US/Pacific (via web):
Added the subscribe link to the page footer. This is a new page or wiki subscription mechanism which replaces the PageSubscribers? tag, hopefully for the better. The default form lists all subscribers but of course that can be customized.

Tweaked the mail-out code so that general edits are sent, as well as appends. They are sent in a simplified diff format (which is not yet very readable).

I welcome more whole-wiki subscribers but be aware that you may receive a lot of email especially in these early stages.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:51:16 +0100 (via mail):
Lots of code cleanups, enhanced wiki-mail integration. Thanks in advance for all bug reports, patches & feedback.

  1. 9.6 2001-10-22
    • zwikidotorg template updated to latest zwiki.org layout, example append_with_heading method added
    • mail subscribers now receive edits as well as appends
    • simple create method added to api
    • new page- & wiki-wide mail subscription mechanism (.../subscribeform)
    • wiki_page_url/wiki_base_url renamed to page_url/wiki_url; checkEditTimeStamp/editTimestamp renamed to checkEditConflict/timeStamp; old api kept for backwards compatibility
    • code cleanups, refactoring

Best regards -Simon

holger, 2001/10/22 11:16:17.3056 US/Pacific (via web):
Great. i install and test this hopefully this night. Regarding ZWikiDiskussion?, what about doing it the [mailing list way]?? holger

BillSeitz, 2001/10/22 11:18:39.6372 US/Pacific (via web):
Silly bug I just discovered. The standard wiki footer (in zwikidotorg style) doesn't have a close-form tag for the Append form.

<;b>134.221.25.117, 2001/10/23 02:27:30.4666 US/Pacific (via web):
0.9.6 breaks chatmode (not only locally but also on zwiki.org). Any idea how to fix this? Best, ...hap (kolb@tpd.tno.nl)

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:29:17 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BillSeitz) writes:
> Silly bug I just discovered. The standard wiki footer (in zwikidotorg
> style) doesn't have a close-form tag for the Append form.

Thanks - fixed on this site and in ZWikiWebs? -> zwikidotorg --SM

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:06:28 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (134.221.25.117) writes:
> 0.9.6 breaks chatmode (not only locally but also on zwiki.org). Any
> idea how to fix this? Best, ...hap (kolb@tpd.tno.nl)

Thanks - I broke the "bare" keyword during refactoring. I believe the version in cvs fixes it. --SM

BillSeitz, 2001/10/23 12:29:19.5866 US/Pacific (via web):
Not getting great success with WikiAcquisition (in 0.9.5pre1). Made WikiWeb? folder. Then made a child folder (tried 2 approaches: (a) make a WikiWeb?, and (b) make a regular folder, then make a WikiPage? inside it). Use of a WikiName used in the parent folder became properly activated (made into an HREF), but the link was within the local child folder, and clicking on it resulted in the ErrorType?=KeyError? error message.

holger, 2001/10/23 13:25:55.3473 US/Pacific (via web):
Is it possible to gain cvs read access? I really like to do some enhancements and be able to send patches against current versions. btw, it is not so easy to get the overview of what is happenening. How many are involved in programming ZWiki at the moment? greetings, holger

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:04:19 +0100 (via mail):
"Bill Seitz" <Bill@axiomlegal.com> writes:
> The key requirement that makes me nervous is that I want a home page
> that is like RecentChanges? but (a) separates blog list and wiki list
> into 2 separate tables, (b) shows a recent subset (e.g. last 50
> pages), and (c) shows different info for each, specifically taking the
> blog entries and showing them in their entirety on that home page.

Should be no problem.. your RecentChanges?' dtml code (or a python script) could figure out both lists by filtering on page name.


> I anticipate ending up with ~1000 of each kind of page within less
> than a year.
>
> What should I be doing to make performance and ease of coding
> reasonable? Play with zcatalog (which I see has been abandoned for
> some time by you)? ZCache? or SimpleCache??

Not sure, but zcatalog has been bobbing around near the top of the ToDo? list for a while and I aim to work on it again quite soon. (I need a faster recentchanges too).

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:20:26 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (holger) writes:
> Is it possible to gain cvs read access? I really like to do some
> enhancements and be able to send patches against current
> versions. btw, it is not so easy to get the overview of what is
> happenening.

Agreed, I have the same problem. In addition to subscribing to ZWikiDiscussion?, I would suggest checking out:

ZWiki (the cvs version & ZwikiSourceforgeProject? links should lead you to web browser & cvs-client read access), ChangeLog?, HowToHelp, BigTodoList?, ToDo?, DoNe?, ZwikiProblems, ZWikiWebs?.

[zwikidir]? contains zwiki.org's code and other things. [zwikidir/contrib]? contains patches submitted by email; more patches & related projects can be found around the wiki via ZwikiModification, ZWikiContributors?, SuggestionsAndComments.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:46:55 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BillSeitz) writes:
> it). Use of a WikiName used in the parent folder became properly
> activated (made into an HREF), but the link was within the local
> child folder, and clicking on it resulted in the ErrorType?=KeyError?
> error message.

Hi Bill - post the traceback here if you like.

"Trevor Toenjes" <zope@toenjes.com>, Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:48:38 -0400 (via mail):
I installed Zwiki for the first time today. Pretty neat concept. Where can I find out how to control access? I want to give anonymous "commenting"; rights, but managed "editing" rights. Is this possible? -Trevor

1Jerry, 2001/10/24 19:51:51.6813 US/Pacific (via web):
Main problems: 1- cannot save user options - KeyError? on zwiki_height + more Tried with IE5 and with Opera 5.12, accept all cookies 2- I cannot get footnotes to work. Clicking on them in Opera goes to top of page (& waits for HTTP something), IE5 just makes clicking sound. - it seems that .. [xx]? gets rendered to an href instead of name (on my local version on 2.4.1), and sometimes doesn't get rendered (no h3 tags, see your StructuredTextExample?)

same result on 2.4.2. I have seen some comments on Zope own structured text rendering, which may/may not have been put into 2.4, but I've tried it outside of ZWiki, and nothing happens. How do I get my UserOptions? to work?? Is there ANY workaround? P.S. I sent this via e-mail to zwiki@zwiki.com and nothing happens.

I've added a bit of detail to this problem, which I have on Netscape also, in GeneralProblems --GG

209.202.101.148, 2001/10/25 06:42:06.85948 US/Pacific (via web):
I was wondering, how does one unsubscribe from a page, for the mail update?

"Holger P . Krekel" <krekel@merlinux.de>, Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:34:42 +0200 (via mail):
i guess that you just try to subscribe the same mailaddress and then your are presented with "unsubscribe".

BillSeitz, 2001/10/25 08:42:36.7768 US/Pacific (via web):
I tried adding your RegEx? for all-caps WikiName support (Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:48:33), and it broke all the data (if I asked for a page I got a not-found, if I went into the mgmt interface I saw for all the default wikipages "AnnoyingQuote (This object from the ZWiki product is broken!)". Removed the changes and everything works fine again.

BillSeitz, 2001/10/25 08:46:12.5442 US/Pacific (via web):
Oops, never mind, I missed the extra %s in the simplewikilink line. Now it's not broken. But it's not activating all-caps, either! Should I make the same change to the wikilink assignment as well? (That's what I'm going to try.)

"Holger P . Krekel" <krekel@merlinux.de>, Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:00:51 +0200 (via mail):
I think that we should move all ZWiki Pages to a folder. Management and meta-modificiations (the ones you do via zope-management) would be more convenient. (once you start having hundreds of zwiki-pages it gets a bit ... well ... you know what i mean)

in a related issue, i manage a zwiki site. i want to share a common outlook and help pages. But be able to restrict access for some groups. I guess that having a folder-scheme for wiki-pages would make it much easier. I don't want to create a ZWikiWeb? for every group. bzw, the current cvs-version is quite broken regarding the names of import files and so?

greetings, Holger

BillSeitz, 2001/10/25 09:15:31.4729 US/Pacific (via web):
Tweaking the wikilink assignment did the trick.

BillSeitz, 2001/10/25 09:16:26.1929 US/Pacific (via web):
Re subfolder WikiName activated by parent page, but link wrong... here's the traceback Simon requested:

Traceback (innermost last):
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 223, in publishmodule
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 187, in publish
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 221, in zpublisher_exception_hook
    (Object: Traversable)
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 171, in publish
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 160, in mapply
    (Object: TheBrain)
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 112, in call_object
    (Object: TheBrain)
  File /usr/local/zope/instance/Products/ZWiki/ZWikiPage.py, line 234, in __call__
    (Object: TheBrain)
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/OFS/DTMLMethod.py, line 189, in __call__
    (Object: standard_wiki_header)
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 538, in __call__
    (Object: standard_wiki_header)
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_Util.py, line 334, in eval
    (Object: context(REQUEST, enlarge_current=1))
    (Info: REQUEST)
  File <string>, line 0, in ?
  File /usr/local/zope/instance/Products/ZWiki/ZWikiParents.py, line 91, in context
    (Object: TheBrain)
  File /usr/local/zope/instance/Products/ZWiki/ZWikiParents.py, line 62, in get_ancestors
    (Object: TheBrain)
  File /usr/local/Zope-2.3.2-src/lib/python/OFS/ObjectManager.py, line 678, in __getitem_
    (Object: Traversable)
KeyError: (see above)

JosYule, 2001/10/25 15:50:20.5478 US/Pacific (via web):
Thanks Holger, you were right, you just enter the same email address again and are presented with an unsubscribe button. Peace.

GeoffGardiner, 2001/10/26 08:56:30.1028 US/Pacific (via web):
Note that the UserOptions? problem, probably only seen in Zope 2.4.1+, can be fixed (see GeneralProblems) --GG

JosYule, 2001/10/26 10:34:26.7428 US/Pacific (via web):
For those of you who don't like how the new underlining works (ie. inter_word_underlines), you can edit the DocumentClass.py file (in \lib\python\StructuredText). The following code changes the underlining to work only if the first underscore is preceded by a space, and the trailing underscore is followed by a space.

Line 928 currently reads:

expr=re.compile(r'_([%s%s%s\s]+)_' % (letters, digits, under_punc)).search):

Change it to read:

expr=re.compile(r'\s_([%s%s%s\s]+)_\s' % (letters, digits, under_punc)).search):

I've implemented this with little (no) testing under zope 2.4.2 win32 / zwiki 0.9.6

JosYule, 2001/10/26 10:36:43.9411 US/Pacific (via web):
Sorry, should have mentioned that this is for Zope 2.4.x as read about in GeneralProblems (Zope 2.4.0 compatibility).

JosYule, 2001/10/26 10:54:01.62615 US/Pacific (via web):
Ok, on a quick test, i also had to change the HTMLClass.py file, line 251 - 255. Just add a space before the <U> and a space after the </U> tag. I know, this is a very very ugly hack. Sorry.

JosYule, 2001/10/26 11:26:28.3659 US/Pacific (via web):
Arg - ok, sorry, this is much more complex then i thought, will keep hacking on it. If i get something half-way decent will let you all know. Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth!

JosYule, 2001/10/26 12:04:55.0353 US/Pacific (via web):
OK, this, i think, is the solution. Again, edit the DocumentClass.py file, line 928 to be as follows:

expr=re.compile(r'\b_([%s%s%s\s]+)_\b' % (letters, digits, under_punc)).search):

Dont edit the HTMLClass.py file. The \b searches for word boundaries, so the space problem is no longer relevent. Hope this helps!

BillSeitz, 2001/10/26 13:37:29.466 US/Pacific (via web):
I have a certain "subclass" of wiki page I'll call a BlogEntry?; it will have a name (made into a WikiName via square brackets) matching the regexp

blogentry = r'\b[A-Z]+[0-9]*+[A-Z]'
(At least I think that's what will work, to match something like B20011025C). I want to do some weird formatting of RecentChanges?, changing the output for those entries. So I want (I think) to use dtml-if. How do I do this, once I've defined my regexp pattern in ZwikiRegexes?.py? Do I have to make a python function called something like isBlogentry(id) which returns true/false, or can I do something directly in the DTML?

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:22:13 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BillSeitz) writes:
> have to make a python function called something like isBlogentry(id)
> which returns true/false, or can I do something directly in the DTML?

Either approach would be fine, except you can't normally use regexps in dtml (alas! applies to python scripts too) so you would have to figure out some pattern-matching trick that requires only python's string module. It looks easier to hack in your utility method in ZWikiPage.py or create it as an External Method.

You could also edit [zwikidir/__init__.py]? and add a real python subclass (class MyBlogPage: ZWikiPage) with a different meta_type, which you can easily check for in dtml.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:12:07 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (JosYule) writes:
> OK, this, i think, is the solution. Again, edit the

Thanks Jos, this is helpful. We should probably cc this somewhere on the problems pages and on WellUnderstoodProblems later.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:05:21 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (206.184.139.140) writes:
> groups. I guess that having a folder-scheme for wiki-pages would make
> it much easier. I don't want to create a ZWikiWeb? for every group.

Hi Holger - not sure what you mean here ? All my wiki pages are in a folder.


> bzw, the current cvs-version is quite broken regarding the names of
> import files and so?

Oh ? Please say more.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:10:04 +0100 (via mail):
zwiki@zwiki.org (BillSeitz) writes:
> Re subfolder WikiName activated by parent page, but link
> wrong... here's the traceback Simon requested:

Ok yes, context (which displays the page title in context at the top of the page) does not like acquisition (he said helpfully). I think there might be some old discussion of this on the problems pages. All that parenting code is due for some cleanup/updating.

Does acquisition do what you want if you turn off parent display in your UserOptions? (or remove context from your standard_wiki_header) ?

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:58:12 +0100 (via mail):
"Trevor Toenjes" <zope@toenjes.com> writes:
> Simon, I was reluctant to personally email you, but couldn't find
> anywhere on zwiki.org that looked like anyone was monitoring posts. I

Hi Trevor.. thanks for checking. The best place currently is ZWikiDiscussion? and I hope you don't mind my replying there. Note you can also subscribe to receive it's comments by mail.


> was looking for a standard ZWiki how-to, or a basic users overview.
> Please point me in the right direction if they exist.

We need more of this, but I would start at HelpPage - hopefully it's mostly intact these days - then ZWiki, and follow the links that look interesting. Also try clicking their contents links to get an overview of child pages. For general wiki stuff don't forget WikiWikiWeb.


> Specifically, I am trying to get some wikipages working ASAP. But I
> have not been able to find the control panel that is referenced in
> http://www.zope.org/Members/phansen/WikiWeb/RegulatingYourPages/advancedform
> But I suspect this is not your product.

That's right, it's part of another variant (WikiForNow). See ZWiki for a brief overview of these.


> I need to give "anonymous" commenting rights, and manage restricted
> "edit" rights. Is this possible in Zwiki?

Yes, the permissions are "Append to ZWiki Pages" and "Change ZWiki Pages" respectively.

-Simon

"Holger P . Krekel" <krekel@merlinux.de>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:06:00 +0200 (via mail):
regarding ZWikiPages? in Subfolders. I suggest putting ZWikiPages in a Subfolder so that dtml-methods like standard_wiki_header/footer go into the base instance of your ZWikiWeb? product and (almost) all ZWikiPages are one level below. This way you can keep a better overview of your ZWikiWeb? site. This is the first part of the idea.

the second part is to use subfolders to group ZWiki-Pages. So that you e.g. can have different permissions for groups of pages. This way i could host several user-groups on one ZWikiWeb? and they could e.g. share a Help-subfolder where they all work on documenting the use of ZWiki.

the crucial point is how to reference and create ZWiki-Pages in these subfolders. I am not to familiar with the current referencing schemes like RemoteWikiURL so i cannot make a reasonable suggestions at the moment. Probably something like [Help:How to start] to reference the shared "Help"-Subfolder. would be convenient. (on our site almost nobody likes to use the two-capital-letter-scheme for referencing, btw.)

Of course you can still make it more convenient. e.g. we could stick a property "ref_folderlist=Help Group1 Group2" to a subfolder to setup a default search-list for ZWikiPages?. (the current folder always is first priority when looking for a reference)

i hope this clarifies the idea. I am willing to help implement. But first we should agree on the soundness of this idea :-)

regards, Holger

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:03:46 +0100 (via mail):

> Subfolder so that dtml-methods like standard_wiki_header/footer go
> into the base instance of your ZWikiWeb? product and (almost) all
> ZWikiPages are one level below. This way you can keep a better


> the second part is to use subfolders to group ZWiki-Pages. So that
> you e.g. can have different permissions for groups of pages. This way

ah, that makes it quite clear, thanks.


> i could host several user-groups on one ZWikiWeb? and they could
> e.g. share a Help-subfolder where they all work on documenting the use
> of ZWiki.

I think WikiAcquisition is trying to solve this same problem (by acquiring common pages from a parent folder).

Your approach (segmenting the wiki into multiple subfolders) sounds like it might add a fair bit of complexity ?


> (on our site almost nobody likes to use the
> two-capital-letter-scheme for referencing, btw.)

As a matter of interest do your people prefer to use [Brackets]? then ?

"Holger P . Krekel" <krekel@merlinux.de>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:11:47 +0200 (via mail):

> Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:03:46 +0100 (via mail):
>
> > Subfolder so that dtml-methods like standard_wiki_header/footer go
> > into the base instance of your ZWikiWeb? product and (almost) all
> > ZWikiPages are one level below. This way you can keep a better
>
> > the second part is to use subfolders to group ZWiki-Pages. So that
> > you e.g. can have different permissions for groups of pages. This way
>
> ah, that makes it quite clear, thanks.
>
> > i could host several user-groups on one ZWikiWeb? and they could
> > e.g. share a Help-subfolder where they all work on documenting the use
> > of ZWiki.
>
> I think WikiAcquisition is trying to solve this same problem (by
> acquiring common pages from a parent folder).

but isn't Acquisition done only in an "upwards" direction? if you have something like:

/Help /Group1 /Group2

you wouldnt find any help-pages if you are inside Group1, would you?


> Your approach (segmenting the wiki into multiple subfolders) sounds
> like it might add a fair bit of complexity ?
>
> > (on our site almost nobody likes to use the
> > two-capital-letter-scheme for referencing, btw.)
>
> As a matter of interest do your people prefer to use [Brackets]? then ?

exactly.

Holger

GeoffGardiner, 2001/10/28 00:10:51.4393 US/Pacific (via web):
My approach to subfolders was to create Zwikiwebs within a master top-level Zwikiweb. Unfortunately acquisition doesn't then work on Zwiki pages (as I think Simon says above) which means that you can't have a common set of Help pages. Acquisition does work on DTML pages and methods , which is a help. I could live with the top-level pages being read-only if that makes it easier. I documented this a while ago on WikiAcquisition.

BTW Bill's elimination of inlined underlines would be a fix for the broken UserOptions page.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:44:54 +0000 (via mail):
over on AdvancedEditOptions?, GeoffGardiner wrote:
> (why do you seem to get your name heading up your append entry here
> a la ZWikiDiscussion when I don't? Is it because your using email
> for entry?). --GG

Yes. Here's the current situation with the name/timestamp headings:

  1. mailed-in comments always have the heading, because the zwiki_mailin script prepends it
  2. web comments made on ZWikiDiscussion? have the heading, because that page uses a special method for posting comments [append_with_heading/view_source]?
  3. web comments made on other pages don't have the heading, because I like still being able to append stuff without it.

It's a bit inconsistent right now. Better ideas welcome!

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:57:54 +0000 (via mail):
Ok -

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com> writes:
><;i> Hi Jerry,
>
> Jerry McRae? <jerry@usd1.com> writes:
> > Actually, now. I can post on the ZWiki, I get all the e-mails, but
>> if I send one (like the original of this), it still doesn't appear.
>> I have also tried without the [] in the subject. I don't get it.
>
> It should be working like this: you send a mail to zwiki@zwiki.org, it
> appears on ZWikiDiscussion?. (I'm doing that right now with this
> message, though I'm cc'ing you as well, sorry about the duplicate).
>
> Unless, your subject header contains the wikiname of a different
> page. Specifically, if your subject is blank, contains no wikinames,
> or the first wikiname in it is ZWikiDiscussion?, it will go to
> ZWikiDiscussion?; but if your subject contained SandBox, it would go to
> that page. If the subject contained multiple wikinames, only the first
> would matter. Brackets, Re: and other things don't matter.
>
>> recap of main problems. 1) cannot save UserOptions?. 2) cannot
>> change standard_wiki_header (unmatched dtml-if). 3)Rendering,
>> specially on StructuredTextExample?, doesn't work right.
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I'm finding it hard to keep these straight -
> don't forget if they are noted on one of the ZwikiProblems pages, they
> will have the best chance of not getting lost.
>
> -Simon

Thanks for the report -Simon

JosYule, 2001/10/28 07:11:48.4779 US/Pacific (via web):
I've "removed" (just used the comment tags) a bunch of bounced mail messages (3) that were on this page. You can still go see them via edit this page, to try to track down the problem.

re: WikiAcquisition - i've got this working on a site at work, but only for RemoteWikiURL pages. ie. i put all the pages that point to remote wiki's in a top level folder, then all the sub-wikis can use the pages as RemoteWikiURL pages. Can't edit them, or get to them via normal wiki means, but it does help if you are managing several wiki's (like at work, with one per projects).

Re: UserOptions? issues - the fix that i've suggested also takes care of the unwanted underline tags on that page.

JosYule, 2001/10/28 07:14:11.4424 US/Pacific (via web):
Actually, this only works on the ZWikiDiscussion? page, the "removal" does not work on the front page, so you still see them there. Sorry.

SimonMichael, 2001/10/29 01:08:05.44265 US/Pacific (via web):
Ouch, a subscriber was bouncing. edk@navigators.lv I have unsubscribed you. Added * !^FROM_MAILER to the procmail recipe which hopefully will prevent bounces showing up here.

It will be nice when we can hand off mail delivery to some tool which handles all this stuff (mailman ?). Another option is to use a real mail list alongside the wiki.

SimonMichael, 2001/10/29 01:21:18.4928 US/Pacific (via web):
sent this to the wrong page

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:29:31 +0100 (via mail):

Sebastien Pierre <spierre@isb-sib.ch> writes:
> I have written (almost finished) a Python module similar to
> StructuredText, but in my opinon more powerful and flexible. It is
> still under development and has a poor documentation, if you want you
> can check it out here is the URL:
> http://spierre.lautre.net/projects/simtex/simtex.htm.
>
> I would like to use SimTex? as a replacement for StructuredText in
> ZWiki, but I don't know how to proceed. It seems like adding a method
> render_simtex should work

Yes, that sounds right -


> but I didn't find the self.xread() method nor understood its role.

it's a bug workaround defined in ZWikiPage.py - see comments there.


> I should also mention that SimTex? outputs XML that has to be styled
> with XSLT to generate HTML, so files need to be cached for</i>
> acceptable performamce.

Sounds good. You might want to look at the WikiForNow or CMFWiki code for how they cache rendered structured text. This isn't yet in mainstream ZWiki.

Hope this helps some, -Simon

SimonMichael, 2001/10/29 02:06:05.67664 US/Pacific (via web):
Anyone got any good simple ideas on how to better handle the traffic from small edits & other events (create, (un)subscribe, reparent etc) ?

"Holger P . Krekel" <krekel@merlinux.de>, Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:28:52 +0100 (via mail):
Hello Simon,

what about using mailman? I think we could go with a scheme like this:

maybe we want to integrate mailman a litte bit into zope so that we don't get much overhead for creating mailman-lists.

maybe until then we want to allow automatic creation of mailman-lists only for pages that end in "Discussion" or that have a certain property (this is the cleaner solution).

Also you may want to use qmail because then you wouldn't have to create mail-aliases for every list (which usually requires root-priviledges)

benefits:

disadvantages:

simon: if you don't have qmail + mailman installed ... i can give you all needed access rights to my systems so we can test this idea quickly on a test zwiki (maybe a mirror of zwiki.org)

What do you think?

Holger

JosYule, 2001/10/29 06:14:06.0765 US/Pacific (via web):
Looking only to my own needs (grin), i'd stay away from Mailman as it does not run under windoze, which is what i'm running at work and home (no flames please!).

Hurm. After a brief look around, there do not appear to be to many other options. I may have to hack on Mailman with Cygwin and see if i can get it going... I looked on the zope site, but no one has done a email listserv in zope... is it worth it to try to make a small product that will do what ZWiki needs? Or am i just making more work?

"Holger P . Krekel" <krekel@merlinux.de>, Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:34:06 +0100 (via mail):

> Looking only to my own needs (grin), i'd stay away from Mailman as it does not run under windoze, which is what i'm running at work and home (no flames please!).
>
> Hurm. After a brief look around, there do not appear to be to many other options. I may have to hack on Mailman with Cygwin and see if i can get it going... I looked on the zope site, but no one has done a email listserv in zope... is it worth it to try to make a small product that will do what ZWiki needs? Or am i just making more work?
>

  1. i wouldn't think that getting mailman to run on python/windows would be too hard. i just don't use windows :-)
  2. integrating mailman into zope seems like a very interesting thing. the configuration management of mailman is done via html, which can be easily integrated with DTML/zope. mailman would work with the ZopeMailHost? object of zope (though i don't know how well a ZopeMailHost?-object handles massive subscription lists). one should modify mailman-code as less as possible so that the product can keep uptodate with mailman-releases.

added benefit: you get the windows-port of mailman for free :-)

greetings, Holger

WikiWiki@usd1.com, Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:51:35 -0800 (via mail):
Hi,

My response to what JosYule wrote me on Monday, October 29, 2001 at 6:13 AM:

J> Hurm. After a brief look around, there do not appear to be to J> many other options. I may have to hack on Mailman with Cygwin and see J> if i can get it going... I looked on the zope site, but no

I don't know the scope of integrating with Zope, but a good mail server for Win-Duhz is The Bat!. It has an active mailing list community of both client users and list server users (run from The Bat! of course).

I've used the e-mail client as a fast alternate to Eudora or Outlook for a couple years and I love it. It uses almost unlimited Regex controlled in/out/read filters; new/reply/forward templates; and searches, for unlimited tweakability. Of course the server has all this flexibility, but I have not used that portion of the program.

HTH

--Jerry

JosYule, 2001/10/29 07:03:59.3008 US/Pacific (via web):
Jerry, i think the problem with using different email managers on different OS's is that Zwiki will expect a particular kind of server (to handle the subscribe and mail in's). So, it would be better (?) if it was integrated into Zope, or Zwiki, or a Zope product that you could download. And, as Holger mentioned, if it were a Zope product, you get cross platform capability. One the things that jumps out at me right away is there there is no CRON on Windows or Zope, so scheduling tasks can be a bit of a pain. I've done crazy hacks like having a meta-refresh page that refreshes every min or so, checking a DB for new tasks to execute. Works in zope! Anyway, i'm not sure that my skills are up to the level of integrating Mailman into Zope, but i might try to get it working on Win outside of zope... we will see.

peace

jos

JosYule, 2001/10/29 09:43:09.1979 US/Pacific (via web):
I've been trying to get append_with_heading to work correctly. It appends the name and date fine, but the text renders like so <method HTTPRequest.text of HTTPRequest instance at 01C1258C>. So i can only see this if i do an edit_this_page, or view source. I've been trying to get a <dtml-var REQUEST.text> to work, but it keeps telling me that var is not available. Tho i do a <dtml-var REQUEST> i can see the text in both the FORM and OTHER area... any suggestions?

WikiWiki@usd1.com, Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:01:07 -0800 (via mail):
re: multi-folder ZWikis's

I got it to work with the existing code. From your clean wiki install (lets call it wiki), create a normal folder (bob). Now create a Zwiki page within bob (NewPage). To link to the new page, use '[bob/NewPage]?'. Pages created from NewPage will exist on wiki/bob. RecentChanges and index shows only the pages on the current folder - which is fine for me.

Here's the catch: in order for any links back to the parent folder to work, you _must have "Show page hierarchy" _off in UserOptions. (I haven't figured out why yet).

oddities: with "Show page hierarchy" off, the title does not display correctly in the bob folder (zwiki.org) And unless you are using the basic wiki, you won't see the upper colored bar (with the last edited on... message)

What I then did was created a bob folder at root, copied the index_html re-direct from zwiki to bob, and changed the:

  "_['URL1'] + '/FrontPage" to "_['URL2'] + '/wiki/bob/FrontPage'"

I would not have hard coded the bob, but I am still mostly ignorant and I could not figure out how to return the last leaf in the URL tree.

This allows me to keep general pages for help, images, or structure in wiki, and put an acl_users in each person's folder, so they can edit their own stuff, and see (but not change) my standard stuff! Once I (with help from you) get past some of this quirks, I think this will work quite well for controlling multiple Zwiki's.

--Jerry

hpk, 2001/10/29 14:11:54.6825 US/Pacific (via web):
This sounds good. (how) does linking from subfolders to other subfolders work in this scheme? Holger

1Jerry, 2001/10/29 14:46:15.6556 US/Pacific (via web):
actually works fine. Just use '[../otherfolder/page]?' to link to a sibling folder. page must exist so this scheme doesn't work well for "let someone else add the page" thinking. Linking to sibling folders messes up my notion of keeping completely separate user folders. I was thinking of creating a common folder for wiki building topics, but I think that would require me to maintain user folders, and my goal is less work. --Jerry

JosYule, 2001/10/30 07:55:24.8119 US/Pacific (via web):
Fixed the problem with append_with_heading. the line

text=REQUEST.text
had to be changed to
text=REQUEST['text']
I still have the problem that it seems to "hang" after i've clicked the add a comment button. ie. it never refreshes the page, i have to manually refresh the page... sigh more code to look at! grin JY.

This actually seems to be an Opera issue, as it works fine with IE --JY

Yeabut... Is this really an Opera bug, or is it another case of IE "helping" by assumptions, like adding closing XML tags. Opera is suppose to adhere more strictly to HTML standards. Is the HTML generated correctly? I only have this problem with Opera and ZWikis, more often when the manage frames are on. Someone with more HTML expertise than me will have to answer this --1Jerry, Tue, 30 Oct 01 08:58:27 PST

Its an opera bug, in that opera show's that the bug is there, but you are prob right that its poorly formatted HTML that is causing it. No solution yet. JY

JosYule, 2001/10/30 08:17:43.5183 US/Pacific (via web):
Questions re: zwiki_mailin.py. Ok, i've got the file, where do i put it? I've got a copy in the /lib/python/products/ExternalMethod folder. I've restarted the server, no luck. Do i have to edit the __init__.py file in the ExternalMethod folder too?

JosYule, 2001/10/30 08:46:35.4505 US/Pacific (via web):
I have another question too - is there a way to get the standard_wiki_footer to pick append_with_heading if the id ends in Discussion? I'm not up on my string comparison operators in DTML to be able to figure this out. This would allow for folks to create their own discussion pages, which would share a common formatting. JY

[nullman]?, 2001/10/30 16:54:36.8074 US/Pacific (via web):
I just tried the "multi-folder" trick. And it works great, except for the page hierarchy when viewing any page not in the current folder. I wonder if we can modify the page hierarchy code to work with wiki folders...

On another note... If you would like ".../map" and ".../offspring" type links to look like the rest of your site, do something like this: Create two DTML Methods that call the map and offspring function wrapped around your header and footer. I call them toc and os as follows:

toc :

<dtml-var standard_wiki_header>
<h3>Table of Contents</h3>
<dtml-var expr="map(REQUEST)">
<dtml-var standard_wiki_footer>

os :

<dtml-var standard_wiki_header>
<h3>Offspring</h3>
<dtml-var expr="offspring(REQUEST)">
<dtml-var standard_wiki_footer>

Then call these from links in your wiki header or footer or wherever. Of course if you want the contents link in the page hierarchy menu to work with it, then you'll have to modify the wiki source code for that.

on to ZWikiDiscussion200111..