Examples: TheZwikiBlog, The Zwiki Blog

Got a Journal, Log/Weblog or "What's New" page on your ZWiki?

This page is for the discussion of various implementations of these in a ZWiki.

Current Elaborate Methods:

  1. BillSeitz Weblog interface : Method of designating blog entries as pages with names folllowing a specific, searchable sequence including date. Features integration with RecentChanges? information and various Blogging features.
  2. TheZwikiBlog : Implementation of the TheZwikiBlog Zope product in a ZWiki.

Particulars with designate a journal as a Weblog:

  1. Recent entries at the top of the page.
  2. Entries listed by date, with a specific URL for each.
  3. RSS generation.
  4. Convenient entry form.


What good is a weblog built into a Wiki?

Want to get this kicked off.. the above is far from perfect, updates welcome. :-)

JosYule, 2002/11/19 16:40 GMT (via web):
How can we "leverage" the strenghts of zwiki wrt a blog? One thing that i'd like is the ability to mail-in a blog entry. How do we handle adding comments to blog posts?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/20 03:53 GMT (via web):
Mail-in Blogs and Comments

I think both of these can be solved by each blog entry consisting of a single page. WebSeitz? covers this by adding the date within the name of the page, and for seperate topics within one page, and adds on a very short subject phrase on that blog entry page.

Because the blog entry is a ZWikiPage , comments are easily added.

I've never implemented mail-in, so don't know much of how it works. ZwikiIssueTracker pages are able to be created via mail-in, so technically I don't think it's impropable.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/20 04:01 GMT (via web):
Leveraging questions

>> How can we "leverage" the strenghts of zwiki wrt a blog?

I added the Background section above in this name. Personally, I like Wiki's as lightweight documetation with the empowerment of simple collaboration and connecting tools. A "lightweight journal" for community/team members adds the features of weblogs this micro-Web.

JosYule, 2002/11/20 13:30 GMT (via web):
So, whats the first step?

Ok, so we have 2 tool's that we can play with right now. What are the steps we need to take to get to ... where are we trying to get too? Are we trying to come to some kind of consensus on which "works best", or more of clearing up how to integrate these tools into a person's Zwiki, or just to talk about them in the general sense... I'd like to look at how we can build them into the base Zwiki install. But maybe that's to grand a goal for now. What about other folks? Does anyone else see a blog interface as an important tool in Zwiki? Perhaps there isn't the amount of interest for this kind of tool to warrant its integration into the base install (let alone if SM wants it in!).

One other thing i was thinking about is the ability to have multiple blog's in a single Zwiki. This would allow for several personal blogs to be published.

BillSeitz, 2002/11/25 13:43 GMT (via web):
Some random notes from my experience:

The main barriers I perceive to integrating stuff like mine into the core build are

** Today's entry: z2021-06-12 [z2021-06-12]? z2021-06-12a JE2021-06-12a

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/27 05:52 GMT (via web):
The above is a note during implementing BillSeitz's blogging pages.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/27 05:56 GMT (via web):
rendering dtml-vars in links

Doesn't work for bracket wiki links. Haven't verified regular WikiName. When I created the page based on teh link above, deleted it via ZMI, the page with the Today's Entry code on it failed to render until I Cleared & Updated the catalog. Simon: Do you want further details?

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/27 06:43 GMT (via web):
Implemeting WebSeitz? blog

* The dtml-var rendering order issue is a biggest setback.

(testing on 0.11.0, so may be slighty different in 0.12/13.0 ..)

Haven't gotten around to looking into multiple blogs in one wiki. Contrary to what I believe at ZwikiRecordBook, I believe multiple blogs per wiki may be OK, with a specific prefix for each journaller. If it weren't for the cross catalog perplexiities, I'd suggest each person have their own personal folder zwiki site which contians their blog. Defenitely a must for multiple projects. Updating your blog depending on which project may defy from the convenience factor which motivates blogging. I personally believe blogging should be as convenient as Comment box, and am considering a form to embed in a front page which will semi-replicate the Radio Userland entry window on top, last pots below, ready for editing (and commenting!)

Simon Michael, 2002/12/04 19:15 GMT (via mail):
rendering dtml-vars in links

Sounds like #206 certain things confuse square brackets (certain things confuse square brackets), I think ?

FlorianKonnertz, 2003/01/13 13:03 GMT (via web):
I'd like to introduce DeanG and my wikiweblog test area: NooWiki:DebugWiki - Regards, Florian

How do you blog a wiki? --JordanCarswell, 2003/05/26 19:10 GMT
I figured out how to get TheZwikiBlog to work with the current version of Zwiki (see TheZwikiBlog for directions). The real question for me is how do you use a blog technique with a wiki? Is it just a blogged RecentChanges?, a wiki reconfigured to work as a blog, or something else alltogether? I think for the blog concept to work, Zwiki needs more contextual indexes and metadata points to capture relevant content from a wiki page to a blog interface. How do you represent a page that has been refactored, but with no actual new content? Zwiki needs its content to be organized into discreet units so that those units can easily be presented in a variety of ways, commonly in the wiki format, but also in other formats like the blog, or a news site. I wonder how much the PurpleNumbers mod will help in that goal?

How do you blog a wiki? JohnDeBruyn, --2003/05/26 20:52 GMT
Hi Jason and Simon: Blogs--as a general proposition--are antithical to the wiki way: first they are generally chronological, one long page with a series of articles each encapsulated in its own unimpregnagle box, spread bottom of one to the top of the next, and, most significantly, the, ego centric, work of a single individual.

On the other hand there is much about blogs that would work well in the wiki environment. First, a blog-like FrontPage, which would feature what is new on the site with the web log enteries in a format like:

FrontPage now has blog like format

The enteries would be paragraphs like this one that were manually inserted on the FrontPage with the newest being the first to appear. The would contain a link to the Page|Discribed and signed be by the author. This would turn the FrontPage into a narrative, important RecentChanges? page. Static information resting on the existing, traditional FrontPage would in stead be droped into one or more new pages linked to the FrontPage.

My other thoughts, perhaps more considered, on the integration of a blog or blog-like format into a wiki and/or the running of a wiki in tandem with a blog are continued on NetworkLawyers:WikiBlog

specific feedback request --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/05/26 22:45 GMT
Would those interested in Zwiki weblogging please comment on what features are needed for BillSeitz's weblog integration to meet your needs? JohnDeBruyn sounds like that's all he needs, but theres: Multiple Bloggers per Wiki, Comments, RSS feeds, Permalinks...others?

>> series of articles each encapsulated in its own unimpregnagle box, spread bottom of one to the top of the next, and, most significantly, the, ego centric, work of a single individual.

Well said. :-) I see this as the reasons blogs are more popular than wiki's & cars are more popular than busses.

But...The inclusion of a weblog should allow _micro_-content into the lightweight website of a wiki. It may serve as a test bed for information that one isn't sure where, how, or if it should go anywhere, and may reduce wiki spagetti while adding human interest. (Now, if each blog entry is a single page...thus why I prefer page/month blogs for community wikis.)

... --JohnDeBruyn, 2003/05/27 00:34 GMT
I am the wiki booster in an email-based discussion for lawyers on the internet where we have most recently, the last six months or so, been up to our ears in talk about blogs, how to blog and all. At the request of others in the group I wrote NetworkLawyers:WikiBlog to explain and demonstrate how I thought blogs could be integrated with wiki's and blog or blog-like features incorporated into the wiki environment.

Out of all that came to mind--as I constructed the blog demonstration out of plain Zwiki pages --was how nifty the special subset of blog pages would be if:

(a) the comments section of the child (weblog entry) page would not appear as the weblog entry on the parent page; and

(b) only that portion of the child (webentry) page above lets say ]]End|Intro]] would appear as the weblog entry on the parent page so that the weblog entry could be limited to a topic paragraph or paragraphs and the entire article would appear on the child page. Perhaps the portion above ]]End|Intro]] could have a pastel colored background which would queue the reader that the pastel segment beginning near the top of the page was the introduction. If the reader entered the page from the parent page they could skip re-reading the intro. If the reader came upon the page via some other link they would know that the pastel segment would give them a quick introduction to the page topic.

I would prefer having the child pages double as full-fledged wiki pages with a distinctive WikiName rather than a date. You might look at how PikiePikie handles child pages. That is the child page naming convention for blog as implimented at PikiePikie:WebLogExample. (I was just there and saw an entry that the user's name been added as the WikiName for the entry. Eureka, how nifty, a guest book, vistors or personal pages page would work as a weblog page.)

If dates are a must then lets have a way to assign full-fledged WikiName to child pages so that they can be assimilated into the wiki on a par with other pages. Thanks for all that you are doing.

Some notes on my tweaks --BillSeitz 2003/05/28 18:37 GMT
I've added a super-terse RSS 0.91 feed recently - just the node ID/URL for each item. It's currently hard-coded to my site. (Eventually I foresee saving local BackLinks and ForwardLinks? (contents) as properties for each node, and would include those in the feed as a context-giver. I'm not a huge fan of full-text-feeds...)

The reasons for my blog-entry ID hack are:

Each page is a PermaLink?.

If multiple bloggers share a wiki:

I've thought about adding a separate Comments property, and putting all Appended items into there. Not sure, though.

How do you blog a wiki? --Simon Michael, 2003/06/03 13:12 GMT

>Zwiki needs its content to be organized into discreet units so that those
>units can easily be presented in a variety of ways, commonly in the wiki

Hi Jordan.. you can chop a big page into chunks with dtml, but I think pages are the natural wiki way to represent discrete units. The GD comments and issues listings on FrontPage use these two approaches respectively. I think one page per blog item is probably best.



new blog implementation --SimonMichael, 2003/07/13 17:12 GMT reply
I just made TheZwikiBlog, inspired by KWiki and Bill Seitz - check it out. It requires zwiki 0.20 and a catalog with the usual indices & meta data.

Different subjects mixed --Samotnik, 2003/07/30 22:12 GMT reply
From a user's point of view I think that there are several different things mixed in this discussion. Most important is to answer the question: what is Wiki for?, because the answer should determine technical solutions.

Question is not easy, because Wiki, as a tool, is somewhere between very personal blog and very "populistic" message board. Some users would like also to use it as a strict collaboratibe tool (as for example NetworkLawyers:WikiBlog mentioned above). So, there will be always tendention to convert it into blog, into open discussion tool or into collaborative tool (as Wikipedia for example).

The general question on development strategy follows from this remark: should Wiki be armed with all this stuff? Or, maybe - it should be simple in standard mode, but configurable into wiki+blog or wiki+discussion tool etc? Probably this would be the best solution, because - from the user's point of view - extremely important is to keep it simple!

Od course, this is not only technology which make wiki usful, but also the mode of usage. For example, I created 3 wikis in my portal (to be launched soon):

So, for me, the important question is if I will manage to keep above "profiles" "manually", or some technical solutions will be necessary. There MUST be compromise between keeping tool simple, and employing technical solutions. I think that technical fireworks should be applied only if they improve User's experience remarkably (make things much easier). I DON'T EXPECT WIKI BE FULLY FUNCTIONAL PORTAL - it is Wiki, not PHP Nuke :).

I think also, that start of Zwiki concept is very good: basic page is simple, easy and usful, and some additional services (search, map, recent changes etc.) are built as separate pages in the background. It is good because User doesn't need to carry. Recent Simon's TheZwikiBlog seems to go also in this direction.

However (there is last subject) in fact Simon didn't make a blog. He made another tool making access to the contents easy! This is very crucial point!!! The very serious problem of community (and other) sites is always access. That is why we have navigation tools, directories, catalogs etc. We - users - need as many such tools as possible. Especially, if the site is for voluntary discussions and voluntary collaboration (for highly formalized collaboration, like projects, we use other machinery :) and personal calendars etc.). Sometimes we even use message board as a private collection of resources (links and notes etc.) because it offers extended easy access to many subjects in one page.

So, for the time being, I think a separate page similar to Simon's TheZwikiBlog could be extremely usful. It could even replace actual RecentChanges? page. And, additionally, a clear instruction how to embed it in any other page and configure, for example in Front Page as Simon did.

Blikis, WikiLogs -- Wed, 24 Dec 2003 03:01:06 -0800 reply
IMHO, trying to build a Weblog from a piece of Wiki software or vice versa often leads to rather disappointing results. Instead of that, it would be great if ZWiki had a pingback and/or trackback feature in ZWiki). With such a feature I would be able to pingback or trackback any ZWikiPage and provide a kind of a backlink from this page toward my weblog entry, even if I do not use ZWiki as a weblogging tool (which it is not really). On the other side, weblogs tools should be able to recognize WikiName and provide appropriate links to an associated Wiki...

You might consider this is a feature request. :) But you may ignore it since I don't provide any gram of code for it (sorry for that) !

-- Sig (http://sig.levillage.org/)

Another Blog -- Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:31:46 -0700 reply
Has anyone used TheZwikiBlog