About Me ( DeanG )

I'm interested currently enamored by KnowledgeManagement?, here in regards to Wikis for learning and experimenting with ZWiki. I am a PageMaintainer?.

By day I'm a C/C++/C#/(C?) Software Engineer, Applications Developer, Craftsman, Software Smith, yeah, something like that. Python and Zope are my professional hobbies. Project management stuff is also an interest, such as Scrum and Agile methodologies.

My tech. blog: http://www.pycs.net/sqr

My family page is: http://nomad.freezope.org


Note to self from self & others:
To get the date/time stamp in my comment additions (or edits) on OSX I had to remove the time zone in def comments(). :-/

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/04/18 15:42 GMT (via web):

ZWiki seems an excellent candidate for Mozilla's "Site Navigation Bar" ... especiall with the latest next/previous navigational aids.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/04/22 22:21 GMT (via web):
Spent a half an hour trying to figure out the mozilla navigation bar links.

Here's my test page: [Browser Navigation links testing ground]?

Note to self:

I would like to add a "this is not a page" filter to all words that end in ( or ()...specifically, to code references of class/function names such as FetchResults?(), etc. , similar to the "!" DontWikiLinkThis? notation.

Dean, 2002/04/19 19:31 GMT (via web):
My users complain about having to subscribe over and over. They want to subscribe to a Node & all the sub-nodes. The cookie helps cover it, perhaps up to the most important 80% of the users.
Perhaps "subscribe to this page & the trails at the top of this page" would be functionality to go beyond 80%.

Dean, 2002/04/19 22:26 GMT (via web):

2002/06/04 03:08 GMT (via web):

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/06/03 (via web):

Been distracted by the RSS & autodiscovery bandwagon recently http://zopezen.org/Members/zopista/1023139557

It has many option in the Wiki world, but not sure how appropriate...

Would an RSS feed on a Discussion page alleviate email process overhead? ...auto-discovery adding further confusion to "subscribe", heh.
sort of, easier to do for just comments, how to get document edit date after a comment? A rss feed based off of diff would be (imo) annoying in Zopeland

Wishing more configurable properties were pre-created with default values. Not enough development experience to discern.

Wishing for more properties... # of lines for edit box. But then that would lead to a UserOptions?...

(These thoughts moved to a few WishList? items and TurnkeyZwikiDiscussion

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/10/03 15:02 GMT (via web):
Minor issue: When I re-parent a page to "no parents" , and return to that page, the heirarchy is not displayed.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/10/04 19:05 GMT (via web):

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/10/26 07:24 GMT (via web):

..starting to see the handyness of badges everyday..

Noticing the undercurrents of the upcoming zpt transistion. That's a good thing, but scary.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/04 23:28 GMT (via web):
Wow...the many steps in the page rendering trail require some time to grok.

Got any recommendations for debugging? STUPID_LOG_FILE traces?

(Researching #279 certain page types cannot render parent folder wiki links (issuedtml, issue+links))

Checking out howtoDebugZope2 .. specific's on render hopping still appreciated.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/06 03:36 GMT (via web):
Finally played with ZReST ( http://www.zope.org/Members/richard/ZReST )

Had a number of newbie issues to get over (installing docutils), so my <dtml-var myTestRestDoc> in a zwiki didn't produce much, in fact, it just dumped the text contents to the page.

Came across big disappointments in STX and ReST today concerning table creation. ReST is an improvement: Boxe sides (and inner sides) MUST line-up. ReST sideless tables help, but it still looks like the top frames must be lined up (note-the last one doesn't. :-)

How often do people need inner nesting anyway?


Latest gem: CallingIndirectlyWithParameters?

I'm intrigued by a ZwikiSlideShow possibility listed at TWiki:TWikiReplacingPowerpoint

What I want: /print to display a page without any WikiLinks? (hidden a href's would be fine too..). Essentially STX+HTML

I don't need this to be available from the lists, I just want to be able to process that on a page object.

Thus, I could rebuild the /print mechanism and apply stx, then html (if need be) to th Page.src()...

I'm pretty sure this is probably available, I just need to look into the source to see how it's done. similar to wikilink(text..

notes regarding freeforms --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/06 09:05 GMT
- Size limits of freeform links

KeywordIndex? error --2003/03/10 10:59 GMT
Hi Dean! Did you solve this error you noted above? Or was it fine again when you ignored it? - I got the same error after importing my whole site to my new server today and renaming the main folder. I'm still googling for more info, i hope by updating the catalog it will disappear. Here are my notes http://openspirit.homelinux.net/noowiki/zope/KeywordIndex just FYI.

my cookies are on vacation --2003/03/10 11:01 GMT
Oh, my cookies are on vacation... ;-) It's me, FloK BTW...

KeywordIndex? error --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/03/10 14:46 GMT
The only way I know how is to manually remove al extraneous items from the site & catalog. :-/

The following are the details I gave for upgrading a multi-wiki 0.9 site:

OK...Here's the scoop on a ZWiki upgrade.

It's not going to be simple for users, but it's not extremely drastic.

  1. There are a lot of pages that come with the 0.9 version that..

    a. Do not need to exist in 0.13

    b. Need to be replaced to the versions of 0.13

    c. Will need to be upgraded/remodified if you've modified the 0.9 version.

    d. Extensive DTML Zwiki page hacking may have some side affects.

  2. Users should call /folder/FrontPage/upgradeAll to ensure changes.
  3. Users with a catalog will need to remove and refind catalog entries. (Your at version 2.4, upgrade plan?) Catalogs are a bit hard here, so not expecting many people using them.)

I upgraded a 0.9.5 version (imported my freezope wiki) succesfully to 0.13.0 with a 2.5.1 install.

Suggestions for upgrading.

--> Announce date of uprading freezope a week or so in advance so they can do this!

  1. Backup your current zwiki install folder (copy it to another folder)

--> Announcing coming ZWiki upgrade 1/2 days in advance. --> Announce upgrade, note that ZWiki's will probably be broken.

Users CAN go through the upgrade process on their home box by exporting, importing at home, and applying those changes through the ZMI when freezope is upgraded.

Users then..

  1. Install a blank ZWiki

3a. Move personal pages to that wiki via ZMI and/or cut-and-paste, or ..

3b. Delete|replace-update the following objects in your current wiki (Unless modified!) pages: UserOptions?, RecentChanges?, HelpPage, SearchPage?

dtml-methods standard_error_message, backlinks, editform, standard_wiki_footer, standard_wiki_header, standard_wiki_page

  1. Call /mywikifolder/FrontPage/upgradeAll
  2. Scrub their catalog if they've got one.

How many people have an active ZWiki??

Hope I haven't scared you. There are a BUNCH of great new features in the recent versions.

Perhaps would should make a specific forum for ZWiki when we go about this.

intranet usage --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/04/03 04:16 GMT
Just found the magical DISABLE_JAVASCRIPT constant in Default.py. Thank you.

Would a page on "Zwiki intranet" notes and considerations be helpful?

2003/04/03 06:25 GMT
Figure this is going to be an interesting one.. [Dean's 0.17 upgrade]?

freeform links consisting soley of punctuation --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/05/12 14:52 GMT
A little baffled today that [ ]? is considered a wikilink. [!]?

more reasons for an implicit RemoteWikiLink? --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/05/14 18:43 GMT


Any "id" attribute in an element can be referenced in a URL. Such as http://zwiki.org/DeanGoodmanson#Comment0514031346 . If this page had an explicit (or as I hope, implicit) RemoteWikiLink? (url) it could be used as such: DeanGoodmanson:#Comment0514031346 , or DeanGoodmanson:#Comment0514031346 if need be.


email to wiki snafus --DeanGoodmanson, 2003/07/11 19:16 GMT reply
Couple of notes on playing well with MS Office, primarily in copying/pasting info to the Wiki text editor. This is an example

� Notice the bullet character

� Whoa

� What’s with that spacing? (Handy for STX?)

Numbered lists

  1. A one
  2. A two
  3. A THREE!!

Hyperlinks surrounded in angle brackets get interpreted as HTML tag:

Could those odd dots be added as a STX bullet type?

Could the URL regex be used to convert adjoining brackets to escape lt/gt?

url's with semi-colons --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:07:21 +0000 reply
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q278289 - without braketts

- with brakcets

in label


Parens also cause URL confusion.

Note to self: Update the follwoing pages: RemoteWikiLinks , IssueNo049?3IssueTrackerPageCodeDoesntLikeNewStatuses

Subwiki Recipe request --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:22:04 +0000 reply
I need to research this, but keep remembering it every three days when I'm not in a position to research it.

From a sub-wiki page, Determine whether the pages is located within a sub-wiki.

Ideally this will be used to create a heirarchy of wiki-icons or simply cookie-crumbs of the wiki's in the header.

Associated, but aside, currently a Parent wiki page accessed through a direct URL to a subwiki will get the sub-wiki's icon.. ZWiki:/subwiki/DeanGoodmanson , which may further complicate this recipe.

rollback --DeanGoodmanson, Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:15:14 -0700 reply
I'm finding I use the ZMI undo feature to roll back minor editing mistakes so they 1. Roll back easier, and 2. Don't show up in the RecentChanges?. Would this be a useful feature to add to the diff screen? Would it require it's own security item? How do we limit it to one level?

zwiki more code friendly --DeanGoodmanson, Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:33:55 -0700 reply
Escape all wikilinks ending in ( .

Ouch: After finding 7 instances of `^!`, I'm convinced this is a messy endeavor. Motion seconded by is the escape `(` or `( ` to catch the def FuncName(i,*) case.

page search code (untested) -- Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:58:04 -0700 reply

I was manning the `net computer tonight so didn't get a chance to validate my second round of changes, but here is anyway. It's the kind of thing that screams for interpretation and elegance, anyway. Ideally this could be included in the SeachPage?, I can't think of many other useful uses. I couldn't call it like a page via http:.../FrontPage/pagesearch?srctxt="welcome" , although dmtl worked. It could have been that my original parameter was named "text"?

code to go into Zwiki.py:

    security.declareProtected(Permissions.View, 'pagesearch')
    def pagesearch(self, srchtxt=""):
        Search for matching text in page.text, return surrounding
        output = ""
        if len(srchtxt.strip()) > 0 :            
            pagetext = str(self.read()).lower().split(pagesearch)
            lhs = pagetext.find(srchtxt.lower())
            if( lhs > -1 ):
                pgtxt = str(self.read())
                output = "%s<strong>%s</strong>%s" % ( html_quote(pgtxt[lhs-100:pos]),html_quote(pgtxt[pos:rhs]),html_quote(pgtxt[rhs:pos+rhs+100]) )
        return output


Simpler version version:

    security.declareProtected(Permissions.View, 'pagesearch')
    def pagesearch(self, text=""):
        In Page Search, for Search Page summary
        output = "" # "Not Found"
        if len(text.strip()) > 0 :
            # r = re.compile(text.strip(), re.IGNORECASE )
            pagetext = str(self.read()).lower()
            pos = pagetext.find(text.lower())
            if( pos > -1 ):
                output = str(self.read())[pos-100:pos+100]
        return html_quote(output)

Q: Should I be checking incoming data type? a. None, b. localtext=str(text) ??

PerPageStylesDiscussion? ? --dan mcmullen, Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:54:30 -0800 reply
hi Dean,

DeanGoodmanson wrote:

Want to kick off this page?
> sure, but give me a couple of days to pull some initial thoughts together for it. or, just create the page now for your first thoughts & i'll update it soon.
I have a couple esoteric questions which I'm thinking would go well on a brief descrtiption and usage intro plus side-discussion page.
> cool.
My current question is setting a pages display page via page content "cue",or page property [which would be exposed on the editform] .. which might lead to other zwiki exotics of "all page properties starting with "???" will be added to to the editform view.
> one useful technique that might help is using "display:none" to turn off sections of the page with css and parse the html output from the page somehow.

i'm thinking about how generally to implement "meta-content" in wikipages. possibly something like TAL's pseudo-XML approach would work. it would be nice to have a standard, consistent framework for all the ways we might want to embed "smart" content in page text. i really like how that keeps things visibly a part of the page.

thanks for suggesting this topic.

best, dan

ps- would you prefer PerPageStylesDiscussion? or StylesPerPageDiscussion?

edit problems --DeanGoodmanson, Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:22:33 -0800 reply
After I removed some structured text smiley tests I was able to save this page.

edit "preview"? --dan mcmullen, Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:27:42 -0800 reply

quick and easy way to get pseudo-edit preview?:

tweek the edit form to add an "object" tag which embeds the web page being edited into a pane in the edit window. add a button: "save and return" or something to save the edits and redirect back to the edit form, with the new rendering in the embedded web page! the embedded web page could also be used to view other pages while editing some a page.

enjoy! dan

URL regex? --DeanGoodmanson, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:08:01 -0800 reply
Is there a URL extractor in here? http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=display&name=ll-url&version=0.11.2

STX thought of the day DashDash? --DeanG, Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:16:26 -0800 reply
dash-dash causes too many problems--and is a wiki signature style. (It's even used in the new comment rendering.)

..and I like the handy definition lists. Issues:

  1. Makes signatures hard
  2. Surprises you.
  3. Doesn't work in sublists -- see?
    Does it work
  4. Inconsistent with wiki signature convention.
"Solution"--Force the definition stx
to follow that of the hyperlink:

I'll look into writing the hack, then see if I can patch at the zwiki-level.

STX thought of the day DashDash? --DeanG, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:32:04 -0800 reply
More thoughts on this. I use dash-dash a lot, as a shortcut to keep two related ideas within the same group -- I put a lot more than simple text before the definition. THerefore? entrustng it to conform to rules within a quotes is not likely, similar to trying to add markup to an HREF STX shortcut. I've now given up the "" momentum, for a replacement to the dash-dash itself. "~~" ?

STX thought of the day DashDash? --Simon Michael, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:15:48 -0800 reply
I didn't fully understand this.. for what it's worth, I use --Name (no space!) as a signature, based on the original WikiWikiWeb standard, though don't need it much these days; also I occasionally use -- in the StructuredText definition list sense, basically for indentation. But I do that very rarely since I've never been able to remember the exact syntax.

Aha!--No space!

Aha!-- Post space!

Aha! --Pre space!

Post and Pre space!

-- No Aha!


STX thought of the day DashDash? --DeanGoodmanson, Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:20:17 -0800 reply
Ahhh... it requires (even more) whitespace formatting.

Dead issue. Odd feature. Surprised I got it right in ZwikiTips.

xchat docx online --dan mcmullen, Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:59:21 -0800 reply
Dean: found some english xchat docs at http://www.xchat.org/docs/xchat.html. (strange they aren't obvious on the main web page?)

tracking page changes --DeanG, Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:05:59 -0800 reply
Scenario: I want to add a link/resource reference* to a page that I know a few people /might/ care bout. I don't want to send the link to them in alarm bell email. I don't want to have to add the link AND a comment (two steps) describing the link.

How can I add this to the page and let the interested parties catch it at there immediate convenience?

RSS per page

RSS per Category/Wiki-Badge

Edit w/ Comment in 1 swoop

Axioms: email is nice, yet loud (and a permanent record.) RSS requires tools but not so loud and usually not a permanent record. RecentChanges? monitoring is a lot of work. ..* an alternative case is "add a blogy entry to a page", where blog entries usually require at least one edit after posting, if not at least to add links previously overlooked or left out while getting the thought out.

Having a referrer's list property on a Zwiki page would be nifty. Bad for ZODB and speed, but nifty extended backlinks.

H3 to H2 --DeanG, Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:53:28 -0800 reply
Found it in zwikipage.py, stxTHtml .. level=3 , 2

Annoyed with orphan freeform links -- Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:08:22 -0800 reply
Brackets add a lot of clutter to [Non-Existant FreeForm links]?. No good solution, but ideally I'd like the brackets dropped and the word surrounded with CSS tags.

#zwiki chat timing --FlorianKonnertz, Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:52:29 -0800 reply
Hi Dean! You've missed me the forth(?) time on #zwiki chat up to now, that's a pity! Sorry for not setting "away" toggle! I guess i was always sleeping deep at night... :) - So, my greetings to you here and now. And: keep on trying!! - FloK

MeatBall:MeatballDigest --DeanGoodmanson, Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:12:09 -0800 reply
Just found this page. Nice. I'd enjoy a ZwikiDigest?. Sometimes the Zwiki ReleaseNotes parrallel this, as it's a monthly venture, but limited to accepted features, not discussions..

empty brackets shouldn't be wikilinked --DeanGoodmanson, Fri, 07 May 2004 12:35:48 -0700 reply
Let's see if this is taken care of in a modern system: [ ]?

[ ]? Annoying when making checklists

( ) workarounds are necesary

< > What holds a check best?

|_| A depositor.

note to self --DeanG, Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:15:42 -0700 reply
Ask on IRC -- Is it reasonable for Zwiki to track 3 times: Last edit date, last comment add time, last doc. edit time.:

 Edit=Any change
 Comment=Last comment time
 Last Doc-Edit=(If Edit!=Comment:Edit,Else:????)

This might be an interesting "recent doc updates" view, vs. "recent comments added". (Although probably esoteric...as comments should be about the doc, thus relevant, right?) More importantly it's useful for RSS feed tracking for page content. , and might require a flag when editng a page whether you're editng a comment. This whole thing is similar to the thouht of seperating page and discussion WikiPedia style.

notes re: print in a modern wiki -- Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:00:40 -0700 reply
Dang... had a list of issue regarding the /print functionality reguard use as a document EXPORT

  1. All the issues issues in masking wiki names
    1. expanding
    2. style
    3. href
    4. Creation links
    5. Brackets
    6. Subwiki ../

ZwikiPrinting didn't render.

notes re: print in a modern wiki --Simon Michael, Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:46:51 -0700 reply

* Why isn't /print in the header? Maybe it's just turned off on zwiki. Not like there's much room their, either.

It can be expensive, and I didn't want available to the world's robots out of the box.

I can't stand PHPWiki?, where only PhpWiki is a valid WikiName. Unless bracketted, of course, then you get no FreeformLink goodness.

InPageProperty? -- Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:07:32 -0800 reply
In pondering #966 Create page from template, which is in some cases, adding a form to a page, I remembered an old thought: Querying contents of a page via a specific markup.

Simple example:

OS: Ubuntu

Thus a http://example.com/wiki/SomePage/OS or SomePage?property=OS would return "Ubuntu", just as <dtml-var "Somepage.OS"> or SomePage.pageproperty("OS") would also. Maybe it should always return a list, as multiple entries could be indexed.

But more complicated issues come up..

  1. Name restrictions: Spaces & Punctuation, start on new line, delimiter
  2. Content restrictions: whitespace stripped?, Ending delimiter: End of Paragraph, next start delimiter, ??
  3. Return type: List (to account for multiple occurances--then could it be extracted via URL? Who cares?) , content return type: string
  4. Not found return type: Blank
  5. Implementation: Is this realistic and possible through a * attribute on the page, or specific method?

Zope 2.8 on Ubuntu Notes

Installed from beta tarball, get ZWiki from darcs pull.

Startup warnings:

 /opt/Zope-2.8/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:863: DeprecationWarning: Space separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes="value title"). Please use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes="value; title").
File wikipage_macros at row, column (486, 1)
Attributes value title
  , DeprecationWarning)
/opt/Zope-2.8/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:863: DeprecationWarning: Space separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes="value title"). Please use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes="value; title").
File wikipage_macros at row, column (491, 2)
Attributes value title
  , DeprecationWarning)
/opt/Zope-2.8/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:863: DeprecationWarning: Space separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes="value title"). Please use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes="value; title").
File wikipage_macros at row, column (496, 2)
Attributes value title
  , DeprecationWarning)
/opt/Zope-2.8/lib/python/TAL/TALGenerator.py:863: DeprecationWarning: Space separated attributes in i18n:attributes are deprecated (i18n:attributes="value title"). Please use semicolon to separate attributes (i18n:attributes="value; title").
File wikipage_macros at row, column (501, 2)
Attributes value title
  , DeprecationWarning)