A good place to make general suggestions/comments. Newer stuff is at the bottom. See also: VisitorLog?, ZwikiKudos, ZwikiProblems, ZWikiTodo, WikiWikiWeb:WikiWikiSuggestions.

Suggestions implemented into ZWiki have been mothballed in the ZWikiFeatureMuseum.

I've been thinking about a way to upload pictures, pdf files, etc into a zwiki page. I've seen a wiki somewhere that uses something like a "picture frame". For example //New-Frame:caption//. This frame is rendered just like a picture frame in a textbook, except empty at first. Underneath the empty frame, there is a button to replace the contents of the frame, and the text of the caption. One can upload any kind of file into the frame, and the frame just holds a link to download the file. One could get really fancy and make the frame actually display the contents of the file (say, if it's a gif). Sure, I can see why people might not want to let strangers upload data to their system, but it would make groupware applications of zwiki really ,really cool. Sure, you can't search the contents of a pdf file, but you could certainly search the caption

Is there any way you can package up a new zwiki.zexp periodically so that we can play with your new changes without having to cut'n'paste into our own ZWiki? I was able to do it with judicious use of document_src, but it'd be easier to just import a new zwiki.zexp and move the pieces around.

anonymous manage & LocalFS access available - see links on ZWiki

I have used the Dolphin wiki for a year for my team and we really like the user interface. It seems your interface is similar. http://www.object-arts.com/cgi-local/view.pl/Dolphin --MarkInterrante

We have found it important for casual users to have the ability to register to recieve email when a page changes. --MarkInterrante

Thank you! Checked it out. Added notification to ZWikiTodoDiscussion? --SimonMichael

I find it important for wiki pages to look at "page returns" and make new paragraphs out of them. Look at my page for an example.

classic wiki & structured text modes do this --SM

I think I begin to detect some sluggishness, perhaps related to the BruteForce? used to implement RecentChanges? / AllPages / backlinks? Could just be NetLag?, I guess. -- TresSeaver

Woa, me too. But JumpTo? is much faster - interesting, I wonder why --SM

We have a wiki that has some classic formatting. We just implemented the ability to type "$$$ html codes yada yadah $$$" and have the stuff wihin the dollar signs interpreted as html while providing simplicity for the rest of the page. --MarkInterrante

Our wiki also does to interesting things that make it useful for general purpose software development team usage: 1) we have a page archive so I can do back to ealier versions of a page. 2) we have the ability to upload files and have it "sit" on the page. It is really important for a team to have a discussion and someone says "Hmm here is a powerpoint/PDF/excel/yada file that I built last week that might clarify our discussion. --MarkInterrante

sounds useful, implementation ideas welcome

Idea: some markup code creates a "box" in the page. A "box" is just a little file-control gadget. It is a little table with an upload button, a delete button, and a caption. The user then uses the upload button to upload a file. If its a MIME type that can be displayed, it is displayed, otherwise a link is presented to download. I REALLY want this feature, but as a ZWiki user, I have no idea how to implement it.

Not sure what you are trying to do with the Page Type and Change buttons. Looks like Change saves. But if the content is already in one Page Type changing it to another just destroys the rendered format, not actually changing the source so I can edit it with those other rules. A naive user would think that the Page Type button would change the source so that it would allow editing in Structured Text a page that had already been entered in HTML, for example.

you're right. Some work is needed on ZwikiUsability? and documentation

The HTML that is being emitted doesn't look like it is high quality. For example, you shouldn't allow a digit to begin a hyperlink: allowing [12]? is okay, but the "name" or "id" attribute value should begin with a letter character, such as "x12". And the <li> elements all have <p> elements embedded in them, unless you edit the HTML directly.

bracketed numbers are handled by zope's StructuredText module - perhaps a candidate for the ZopeBugCollector? ? *
I agree HTML quality may be a problem. For example I have no idea how some of these pages are looking in IE. I guess I'm trusting the wiki process to fix & report HTML issues*

Finally, I would like to see some movement on the locking issue. The great advantage of Zope, I believe, is that it can use DAV for that. (Of course, moving to DAV might restrict the users to only one browser right now.) The other Wikis have had similar problems with locking. VersioningSupport? doesn't provide the performance needed for good merging. DAV is supposed to do that. Is there any possibility of trying out DAV with ZWiki? --EricEldred

me too! DeltaV? or whatever it is. Also how about a ZopeCvs?. DAV access isn't available to this CodeIt?-hosted server but I'm keen to hear from others who've tried it.

Another problem I just encountered: when I wrote the HTML code this way: <a href="mailto:EricEldred@usa.net">EricEldred</a> it mangled the HTML even though I selected HTML/DTML as Page Type, because I chose to use internal capitals for the email address.

yup, you need to escape it with ! *(because WikiName are converted in almost all modes)*

link recognition is smarter in 0.4 *
but still need the ! in this case (EricEldred)
or use EricEldred@usa.net*

I've noticed that the backlinks page uses standard_wiki_header but not standard_wiki_footer. Why is this? It means that if you are using a table-based layout (like the DolphinWiki?) that uses standard_wiki_footer to close off the columns, rows, and tables, they won't render correctly (or even worse, won't render at all). I suggest that there be an alternate set of headers and footers (perhaps minimal_wiki_header and minimal_wiki_footer) to use for pages like backlinks. -- DavidBrown

you're right, we need to do something about this.

Links are not created automatically from words containing scandinavian characters: Compare Tytto:Kalenteri against TyttoKalenteri?.

can someone show me a regexp that recognizes these

To cover Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden we need include a set of "ÆØÅÄÖæøåäö". Germany would probably appreciate an additional "Üü".

Integrate Zwiki with ZiE?! This would really boost Zwiki to become a killer-app! With ZiE? people can edit WYSIWYG in Zope, right from their IE Browser (I know, you are stuck to MS platforms, but this stuff is for mass (read dummies) acceptance of zwiki)

sounds good, patches welcome

Is it possible to have an ApprovalProcess in the Zwikiworld? see link
allow numbers in WikiName like Win9X or Agent2000. Treat numbers like capital letters maybe ? --KarlPutland

I guess so.. see related response on ZwikiProblems --SM

Say I have this page in nicely formatted plain text. When I hit the "Edit this page" link, the page type resets to "Structured Text". Thus I need to consciously change it back to "Plain Text". v 0.3 remembers the page type but v 0.4 and v 0.5 doesn't. Is this intentional?

*[musings snipped] try editform_advanced in 0.5's sample wiki. ah, yet another bug in this - in the line*

<dtml-if "page_type == 'html'">SELECTED</dtml-if>>

change it to "page_type =='htmldtml'". Thanks for the report --SM

Cool product! But because of the very nature of Wiki (with information being very dispersed) I feel a newcomer has some difficulties to find all relevant info and get his questions answered. That's why I compiled this list below. I think some of it has already been mentioned, somewhere, but as I said...

Quite right! How should we organize it better ? --SM extend LearningWiki ?

What's the idea of releasing a light version 0.5 of ZWiki? Performance, stability, usability?

0.5 "Simple" was intended to be easier to install/learn/use. I removed the problematic zcatalog code, and reworked the default pages & page layout --SM

Can one easily switch between different versions of ZWiki without any risk of data corruption?

You can't do anything without any risk of data corruption :) Keep backups of anything important.

Zwiki certainly tries to do the right thing, recognizing older pages and upgrading them on the fly. I haven't considered the reverse scenario (downgrading) --SM

I'd like the regular expressions for building hyperlinks to be more flexible, e.g. by allowing fully capitalised words like IBM, too, without using square brackets. Is there any chance to make these regexps configurable?

They're easy to customize if you have access to the product code. Easyish. Or.. ? Obviously, links must not contain special characters like French accents. Is it possible to correct this?

I think a smarter regexp will do it, please send me one (or just the characters) if you can

How about defining upper case as A-Z, and lower case as anything that is NOT upper case, control characters, or whitespace? I suppose that would rather confuse users in other character sets.

Is it possible to make the default content for a new page configurable?

yup! create a DTMLDocument or property called "standard_wiki_page"

-- DinuGherman

thanks - good questions, and I welcome all ideas/edits towards improving accessibility for newcomers --SM

Just letting you know -- (see? Here's what I mean by undesired mark-up; see my post in WhyDoesThisPageLookMessedUp??) append only mode would be a great asset for pages such as FAQ or bug reports. It would only really be useful, though, if it could be applied on specific pages. A full-blown security model would hopefully take things like this into consideration.
*For this you could use ManagedMode switched on or off page by page - I do that on our site --GeoffGardiner :-)*
Here's an idea for WikiPaths, which would allow you to define navigation structures within a Wiki -- EvanSimpson
Here is how to add a RecentChangesBySubjectFeature. You can use it to list the pages that have changed recently below a certain page in the hierarchy-RonDagostino
One of the other wikis has a structured text rule where 5 or more (I think) hyphens (on their own line?) becomes a horizontal rule. In keeping wiki simple, nothing's quite as intuitive as just hitting dashes ----- to make a break. --KarlUlbrich?.

I agree with both the above, we should propose them on the StructuredTextNG wiki --SM

I modified my 6.1 ZWiki (http://www.handhelds.org:8080/wiki) so that [edwardam@handhelds.org] becomes edwardam@handhelds.org. I call it BracketedEmail. This allows users to add mailto links really easily.

BTW: Is there any plan to add zone style "Tall" and "Wider" buttons to the edit pages? It seems a logical thing to do. The edit window is very small.

BTW2: Great product and Thanks!

I very much like the Page History button, but my editing style is to do multiple saves as I review the text. I see that there is a proposal somewhere to provide a review mode, but in the meantime could you allow users to delete their own pages? I think the rule should be something like delete any pages you have created in the past hour in a contiguous stream of your own edits - except you may not delete the last entry. So you can't delete anything that someone else has relied on for their contribution, but you can trim your own edits. --GeoffGardiner

*you mean trim the edit history, rather than deleting pages, right? Yes! It would really be deleting older versions of the pages under user control within the rules I suggested --G WikiWikiWeb condenses successive edits (all those within a certain time period ?) for diff purposes and I agree it's very nice. --SM*

Would you include a link to a minimal_wiki_header in the map and backlink functions, or maybe make them into DTML methods or pages, so that they can be formatted easily? Thanks. -GG 2000-11-29

Any suggestions on how to include the calendar product in with wiki? I'd like to have a calendar tag that links to zwiki pages for discussion of company events. Thoughts on this?

I've been browsing WhyClublet? that has a wiki-like thing running at http://why.clublet.com/. Now, Clublet has a very cool feature called WhyClublet:GoldBar that certainly enhances the experience. Could we have a GoldBar? on ZWiki too, please? :-)   --KlausSeistrup

That's very nice indeed. I'll add as soon as we figure out how to do it. --SM

Ta. --kas

Okay, and so I also moved around on MoinMoin, which has a bunch of nice features too. One that I liked immediately, was that

== Your Name Here ==

would render somewhat like

Your Name Here

but perhaps you should visit MoinMoin and see for yourself: MoinMoin:KlausSeistrup.

Would be nice if one page could be referenced by multiple WikiName, so that e.g. WikiName and WikiName could point to the same page.
2001/Jan/14, kas: How does zwiki's page locking mechanism work? Does it have such a thing? I mean, what happens if two people each load the same page into the editform at (approximately) the same time? Won't one of them lose his changes upon saving? And if so, is it the first one losing his changes becuase they will soon be overwritten by the second person's editing? Or is it the second one losing his changes because zwiki won't let him save? Anyways, I observed a very nice feature over at WhyClublet? the other day: if you attempt to edit a page that is already being edited upon by someone else, Clublet paints the grey "frame" pinkish red. While it is not easy to paint zwiki pink (people might have diffent layouts of their pages), perhaps we could have a dtml-variable that tells us whether a page is being edited upon by someone else, and then the site-admin can decide whether he wants to use some dtml-if magic to let his users know if this is the case. Or do we already have this possibility (I am still trying to learn zope and zwiki, so...)?

2001/Jan/22, kas: The wiki engine that runs the wikis on http://www.swiki.net/ lets you use:

  | fruit  | color
  | apple  | green
  | tomato | red

to construct a table like


Wouldn't it be swell to have a similar feature in ZWiki?

Yes, it would :) BeWo

Ha! There is a similar feature it's simply not documented. Try to using || instead of | or visit GeneratingTables?. --BeWo

wiki methods

I think wikipages shouldn't be acquired to keep wiki namespaces seperate and local page creation possible. Go for wiki methods instead. See AcquisitionAndNamespaces?. --BeWo 02.22.2001

extended zwiki architecture

Some thought on zwiki and it's code lead me to think the wikipage object should be kept very simple, while keeping templates, filters and additional functionality seperated. Maybe a discussion on RefactoringZwikiArchitecture could help in making zwiki 2.0 even more cool than zwiki 0.8.1 is now. --BeWo 02.28.2001 8-)

list username and ip addr in recent changes

I'd like to see both username and ip-addr in RecentChanges?, as my users tend to touch their options which causes an empty username again. Could anybody tell me how to access ip-addr. Thanks --BeWo 01.03.2001

A button to see what will happen if you hit "Change"?

One thing that my tiny toy Wiki server has (see http://c2.com/cgi/wikibase?DavidChess for vague details) that I haven't seen elsewhere is a "Preview" button on the edit page. Pushing "Preview" returns an image of what the page would look like if you were to save now, but doesn't actually save it. This seems very useful for people using a part of the formatting language they aren't familiar with, which is probably everyone now and then.

Do most people get so skilled so fast that it's not really needed? I'm always surprised not to find it on new Wikis I bobble through...

DC ( http://www.davidchess.com/ )

SM thought about a preview feature while in editing mode, i read about it somewhere. Stay tuned --BeWo

(KenManheimer - this is one of the things i wanted to do in WikiForNow, but didn't have the time - i think it'd be a significant comfort for people contending with StructuredText nuances...)

mathematical notation

from SlashDot: --

"(if it were up to me I'd look into some sort of Wiki system that supports mathematical notation - hit a search engines for details, here's one hit: http://allmyfaqs.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Math_symbols.)"

see TraversalWikiLink --LaloMartins

it's seems to me amazing that you dont get all sorts of miscellaneous crap on the site. How often do you have to "refresh" your pages?

Repair them ? Not often. There's one short page which answers this in a nutshell.. which I can't find. Here's a few more which we could link somewhere. WikiVandalismDiscussion, [Wiki]:WhyWikiWorks, [Wiki]:WikiErase, [Wiki]:WikiWikiWebFaq...

How about a way to do horizontal rules without hr? --BillSeitz

Would like to be able to make a line a header without (a) using HTML, or (b) indenting following paragraph (which I find very clunky). --BillSeitz

How about tracking a CreatedDate? as well as LastChangedDate?? And further, making that date explicit and over-rideable at the time of creating the page? I find that browsing notes based on when I started them to be helpful. The date-override is because often I'm pulling from another archive (Palm/Outlook Notes, etc.). --BillSeitz

Hmmm, I made that note months ago. Now I'm putting today's date (Oct 5'01) here to show its age. I'm really interested in using ZWiki for WebLogs?, and having original dates can be very handy. --BS

I think it would be nice if words wouldn't be turned into links when they're the name of the current page. It's unnecessary, since clicking the name just brings you to the same page again, which isn't very user-friendly.

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:11:51 -0800 (via mail):
Alexy Khrabrov writes: ...
> Now, I started to install wikis in different places, and wanted to
> use Zope and ZWiki. However, ZWiki does not have a preview, which
> is a huge, humongous, deadly disadvantage for cautious people.
> UseMod?'s notation is also more widespread than StructuredText.
> So, I suggest to integrate another rendering mechanism, UseMod?,
> and add a Preview facility. I see your wiki has a diff, but a stock
> one does not -- how did you add that?
> A further horizon can boast ZWiki-UseMod? compatbility suite,
> such as reading UseMod? pages from ZWiki (try them to get into Zope:).
> Cheers,
> Alexy

A couple of features I've added in my own version:

Are these worthy of including in a future version of ZWiki? I think the header menu change is, style sheet I like, but I'm not sure this is the best way to do it (it is best I could come up with)


Hi Simon. I noticed in your log you mentioned a desire to fold the creation of the zwikiwebs into python methods and heard someone had done this. I recall that Bruno Vernier of the EDUML (educational markup language) project has done this for some older versions of zwiki. He's done lots of funky stuff with zwiki to enable easy rendering of latex, gnuplot, etc. Anyway, I don't know if this is what you were thinking about, but here's the Eduml package that contains the fully pythonified zwikis: http://ess.vancouver.bc.ca/zope/bruno/eduml/source/packages Navigating his site is brutal (sorry Bruno) but there are some clever ideas in there. Regards, Steve


Jason Byron <Jasonb@ppsc.com>, 2001/11/28 17:21 US/Pacific (via mail):
I don't know if this has been suggested before or not, but I thought you could add a simple tag for popups kind of like remotelinks work.

For example if you typed:


you'd get a link to OtherWikiWord? with a target="_blank" in the anchor.

just an idea

thanks, Jason Byron

Jason Byron <Jasonb@ppsc.com>, 2001/12/07 09:32 US/Pacific (via mail):
Hi, I've uploaded a dtml method that lists the files in the uploads directory. pretty simple, just add a DTML method, call it "list_uploads", and then use http://yoursite/FrontPage/list_uploads to test it out.

here it is: list_uploads.zwiki.dtml_method

thanks, - Jason

2001/12/30 14:34 US/Pacific (via web):
[[UseMod:FreeLinks|Free Links]]? would certainly be nice. I'm also pretty astonished that ---- doesn't create a horizontal rule...

we're using zwikis now for the development team and I'm slowly integrating things with cvsweb and bugzilla. I use the html br tag for single linefeeds. Why not convert linefeeds to br in the rendering? That is, after processing blank lines. Sander

Tables in structured text

Simon Michael <simon@joyful.com>, 2002/04/16 14:32 GMT (via mail):
stx does support tables, if you are using zope >= 2.4.

2002/04/24 07:06 GMT (via web):

I put these on Maybe, but perhaps here is better

Wiki Macros

A simple implementation that includes calling other macros and passing parameters.

Example: In the edit box typing .archive,www.zope.org would be rendered as http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.zope.org

One possible implementation would be to define the .archive with a wiki page called dotArchive. dotArchive has as it's contents http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.zope.org ...

When a page being editing is submitted, have zWiki parse the contents for .commands and immediately replace the .commands with a HTML comment (to mark it) and the text of dotCommands, followed by another HTML comment tag. The expanded text is then stored in the ZODB. The reverse process happens when a user clicks on the editThisPage link. zWiki looks for any comment tags, replaces the whole mess with the .command

There are various issues such as

I'd be very willing to test this ;-)

[email protected]?.Com

Wiki Macros

A simple implementation that includes calling other macros and passing parameters.

Example: In the edit box typing .archive,www.zope.org would be rendered as http://web.archive.org/web/ * / http://www.zope.org (spaces added, -DG)

One possible implementation would be to define the .archive with a wiki page called dotArchive. dotArchive has as it's contents http://web.archive.org/web/ * / http://www.zope.org ...

When a page being editing is submitted, have zWiki parse the contents for .commands and immediately replace the .commands with a HTML comment (to mark it) and the text of dotCommands, followed by another HTML comment tag. The expanded text is then stored in the ZODB. The reverse process happens when a user clicks on the editThisPage link. zWiki looks for any comment tags, replaces the whole mess with the .command

There are various issues such as

I'd be very willing to test this ;-)

[email protected]?.Com

This page is broken....trying to fix. - DeanGoodmanson


Please make utf-8 as default encoding and allow WikiName.

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/15 06:38 GMT (via web):
RefactorMe - Phase I done. What next?

Moved from elsewhere:

2002/11/25 19:38 GMT (via web):
What do you do when you have two zwikis and you want to SharePages??

DeanGoodmanson, 2002/11/25 20:08 GMT (via web):
SharePages? Answered at GeneralDiscussion

old someday/maybe wishlist --SimonMichael, 2003/05/19 03:38 GMT

Support for BibTeX? and Footnotes --2003/06/03 16:09 GMT
--- Urgently needed for real work: support for real footnotes (LaTeX? style, just like \footnote{blah} and numbers are dynamically genearted} and support for BibTeX?.... then papers could be published in wiki -- it'd be huge for knowledge.

zNote integration? --2003/06/03 16:16 GMT
zNote might help a bit -- a database manager for bibliographies. I've been using it, but didn't think about ZWiki integration, which would be nice. --TonyRossini

Support for BibTeX? and Footnotes --Simon Michael, 2003/06/06 08:08 GMT
What about using reStructuredText footnotes ? (RST page type)


Major Design Flaw -- Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:23:17 -0700 reply
ZWiki has a major design flaw. What is it you ask? Simply, the programmatic logic should exist ONLY within the folderish object instead of each ZWiki page where it exists now.

A better design would have a ZWiki page as nothing more than a text file, i.e., a container of data and not logic, which a writer [can] use as a repository for structured text. This substantively better design will allow for the greatest re-use of ZWiki pages.

wiki pages can be --d2m, Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:53:02 -0700 reply
and are in fact reused in many ways. to make them static and dumb is just one design decision. whatever you see at edit-time inside that little textarea or when the page is displayed in your browser is what the wiki-software wants you to see - there is no way to reason back from characters to effective content.

... -- Fri, 02 Jul 2004 23:13:29 -0700 reply
Using the anthromorphism with respect to a ZWiki page, i.e., refering to the inanimate object (the ZWiki page) as if it were human and then ascribing a human characteristic, e.g., dumb, to it, doesn't invalidate the major design flaw, which is the inclusion of programmatic logic where it does not belong.

The ZWiki page should be a container for Unicode encoded text only.

The folderish object should be a mini-parser/renderer, which if upon reading a ZWiki page with text typed in a particular manner, i.e., structured text, the output should be converted into HTML for rendering by a web browser.

Any other design except the one described in the above paragraph is inherently flawed.

BTW, what does "there is no way to reason back from characters to effective content" mean?

... --Simon Michael, Thu, 08 Jul 2004 08:20:38 -0700 reply
Hi, thanks for the input.

The ZWiki page should be a container for Unicode encoded text only.

That approach would make some things easier, but not all. Zwiki follows the classic OO style of self-contained objects communicating with one another. For one thing, this means a zwiki page can be used in any current or future folderish container, such as btree folders, large plone folders etc.
The folderish object should be a mini-parser/renderer, which if upon reading a ZWiki page with text typed in a particular manner, i.e., structured text, the output should be converted into HTML for rendering by a web browser.

These days each page makes use of such a parser/renderer (the page type object).
Any other design except the one described in the above paragraph is inherently flawed.

I am not convinced.

If Truly Self-Contained OO Then ... -- Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:41:46 -0700 reply
If your ZWiki page follows a "self-contained object(s)" model as you posit, then each ZWiki page should be a complete editor, repository for as-yet undefined metadata supplied by the user destined for fields defined arbitrarily by any user and an full API to communicate with any object outside of Zope.

Since it's not, your claim is false, once again proving the design inherent design flaw of ZWiki. Basically, your claims sound nice and on the face of it, to most individuals, they would believe you. The reality is that either you believe your own rhetoric or you simply don't understand the abstract o-o model. Which is it?

is a huge faux pas -- Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:43:35 -0700reply
In the era of CSS, why use (incorrectly) HTML table tagging to present the layout of arbitrary page data?

If Truly Self-Contained OO Then ... --Simon Michael, Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:01:42 -0700 reply
Oh goodness me, caught in the crushing grip of your logic again. :)

Why so aggressive ?

SubZwiki idea -- Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:08:50 -0700 reply
Please comment on feasability of my SubZwiki idea (combining SubVersion? capability with Zwiki).


SubZwiki idea --Simon Michael, Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:27:23 -0700 reply
Hi JD.. it's a simple matter of programming, but so far nobody knows how to do it or has the resources to work on it. There are various Zope/version control integration products to look at for ideas.

a nice collapsing outline --simon, Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:28:08 -0700 reply

Comments and HTML pages --Michael Bradley, Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:16:32 -0700 reply
The Zwiki code that appends submitted comments to a page should check the page type; if the page type is other than HTML, then append as is; if the page type is HTML, then the line-breaks in the comment text should be replaced with "br" or "br /" html-tags.